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So I've been visiting this forum for a few weeks, and at first I thought "Wow, there's actually other people like me." But as I've continued to come to the forum, I've noticed that there tends to be quite a bit of difference in me and other people on this forum. I don't like anime. I can connect quite deeply with troubled people on an individual basis, but I don't feel a great emotional pull to "groups" of discouraged people. I've become quite bitter towards the lower class, whereas I used to be sympathetic. (I worked in grocery stores for 6 years and saw public welfare systems greatly abused, I think this led to my lack of sympathy) If something's on my mind, I will resort to a more relaxed dress code. I tend to find myself wearing a t-shirt and jeans everyday during these times, but most of the time I dress up for no reason because I want to present a positive self-image. I've succeeded in business, being promoted as far as I can go in every position I've ever held, despite my lack of concern for "the bottom dollar". I guess the most important one of these is my inability to feel empathy for "groups". I've pondered whether it's more of a self-defense mechanism because if I did allow myself to, it would be too overwhelming. Either way, even among INFPs I still feel like the odd one out. Like I'm missing attributes that everyone else seems to possess.
 

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So I've been visiting this forum for a few weeks, and at first I thought "Wow, there's actually other people like me." But as I've continued to come to the forum, I've noticed that there tends to be quite a bit of difference in me and other people on this forum.
Such is life and such are people. I actually quite appreciate the diversity, and pattern-spotting to find the similarities that connect them.

www589 said:
I don't like anime.
Heathen!

www589 said:
I can connect quite deeply with troubled people on an individual basis, but I don't feel a great emotional pull to "groups" of discouraged people.
You know, if I'm being honest, I quite relate to this as well. But that is likely more due to the fact that, as much as possible, I try to avoid thinking in terms of groups. But while I can be sympathetic towards groups on principle, I only generally tend to feel true empathy for individuals on an individual basis.

www589 said:
I've become quite bitter towards the lower class, whereas I used to be sympathetic.
I would be considered working class myself, but I don't relate to the vast and overwhelming majority of people deemed to be 'lower class' (and they probably wouldn't want me either). I'm currently on benefits, but I'm not happy about it. Truthfully there is not much work I wouldn't want to do, with the exception of mindless manual labour, but there are certain kinds of people I could do without dealing with. Plus I'd, y'know, actually like to do something relevant.

www589 said:
If something's on my mind, I will resort to a more relaxed dress code. I tend to find myself wearing a t-shirt and jeans everyday during these times, but most of the time I dress up for no reason because I want to present a positive self-image.
Yeah, that's a good attitude. I don't pay much attention to my appearance save for grooming because I don't have much cause to. One of these days though I'm going to treat myself to a decent wardrobe. There always just seems to be more important things to spend money on.

www589 said:
I've succeeded in business, being promoted as far as I can go in every position I've ever held, despite my lack of concern for "the bottom dollar".
Well, that's great! It shows one can be rewarded for their prowess and expertise without factoring in greed and the lust for power. No?

www589 said:
Either way, even among INFPs I still feel like the odd one out. Like I'm missing attributes that everyone else seems to possess.
Everyone is their own person, and as much as you may lack some of the traits you claim to, you make up for with strengths I and others don't have. Without going into detail, though, I understand how you feel, because I have wondered about that myself at times. But from my perspective, I don't see much in your post that comes off as negative...? With the possible exception of your bitterness towards the lower classes, which I am sure in your case is justified. I am quite jaded as well, but do not like to judge and take no comfort in criticising others so as long as they have no problem with me, nor do I them. (That said, I also don't like people who wilfully abuse Government support systems - but a lot of racists say the same thing, so.)
 

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Nothing wrong with weird, can it get any stranger than me? Furthermore, I see nothing wrong at all; you are so lucky about getting all the positions you can at your job! :) Well, not lucky, SKILLED.

We just are so diverse, and are always developing ourselves! I believe it's actually normal to care for individuals you care for rather than groups, unless a group becomes your cause. Also, the dressing up thing is not strange. Some INFPs never will, some express themselves through their style (my case.) I started like you, just wanting to have a healthy self image, and ended up developing my own "persona", that I feel truthfully represents who I am. Still a work in progress, though. I was also wondering something similar, especially since my music taste is so not standard, and many INFPs don't think about image the way I do (and THAT'S FINE.) But also realize that we walk different paths, and we are always "rediscovering" ourselves. It's a life journey! Finally, despite our diversity, INFPs tend to have similar thinking processes among themselves. And we grow and change: I used to wear the boots many here are wearing, but now they don't fit me any longer, so I had to get another pair that better represents my current reality. Fulfilment through development.

I see nothing odd, the more unique, the better, IMHO! Be proud of what sets you apart.
 

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So I've been visiting this forum for a few weeks, and at first I thought "Wow, there's actually other people like me." But as I've continued to come to the forum, I've noticed that there tends to be quite a bit of difference in me and other people on this forum.
This forum is populated mainly by people in their teens & early 20s, so if you're out of that range, you may not relate to as many people here. If you're in that range & still don't, it could be cultural or other differences which affect personality. MBTI basically types your mindset, which is only one factor of personality.

I don't like anime.
Neither do I. To a degree, this seems generational though. Taste isn't correlated to type very well anyway. I share taste in music or films with people of other types all the time. Again, culture, age, etc, affects this aspect.

I can connect quite deeply with troubled people on an individual basis, but I don't feel a great emotional pull to "groups" of discouraged people.
It's actually common for Fi types to focus on individuals over groups.
When I hear people around here talk about empathy for a group, it's more of a general idea of individuals who are disadvantaged in some way (ie. the underdog), not a literal group.

I've become quite bitter towards the lower class, whereas I used to be sympathetic. (I worked in grocery stores for 6 years and saw public welfare systems greatly abused, I think this led to my lack of sympathy)
I'm just curious how you knew it was being abused? I mean, if someone is dressed nicely & on food stamps, how do you know those clothes were not bought in a period of financial security, but now they have no income? I've heard people make these comments before, and unless you know a great deal about an individual, such judgments seem unfair. My knowledge of the system has led me to believe that it is actually quite difficult to abuse it, and very easy to lose the aid.
/tangent
 

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Discussion Starter #6
[QUOTE/]I'm just curious how you knew it was being abused? I mean, if someone is dressed nicely & on food stamps, how do you know those clothes were not bought in a period of financial security, but now they have no income? I've heard people make these comments before, and unless you know a great deal about an individual, such judgments seem unfair. My knowledge of the system has led me to believe that it is actually quite difficult to abuse it, and very easy to lose the aid.
/tangent[/QUOTE]

In general when I speak of abuses of welfare systems, I'm referring to the many people who I've seen high on drugs while cashing their SOCSEC check or using their EBT cards. I've also known a few individuals who have admitted to having more children in order to increase their benefits. I've also seen people drive Cadillac Escalades and use their EBT cards, however I do not think too much about them because I know that this could have very well not been theirs, or bought in a better economic time. The system is in fact very hard to cheat, I believe it's around 2% of the users are found to be in fact abusing it. I also admit that I may have prejudiced based on my own personal value system, where I believe every one should work for what they want, stopping at nothing to get it. When I say that, I'm not referring to the typical welfare beneficiary, but the individuals who I have come across who did not pursue an education, refuse to present themselves in a respectable manner in order to get a job, and do not actively seem to be putting in effort to better themselves.
 

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I couldn't imagine how dull and colorless life would be if it all depended on what Personality Type you were. You'd see people carrying around signs to showcase their personality to the world and voila, you'd know everything about any person without even saying a word. I don't think that the MBTI does justice to our multiple dimensions.. maybe it says you're green, but you're really jade. That's why I think no two people in this world are exactly the same, not even in this INFP forum.
 

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No, actually, you sound a lot like me. Are you leaning towards "t"? I'm right between, I guess it make for a little less empathy and a little more critical thinking. Also i have no idea what it is but the dressing thing is so accurate. Whenever my mind is somewhere else completely, I stop caring about my looks, but most of the time I do try. I've never heard someone say that before but it's very accurate.
 

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I've become quite bitter towards the lower class, whereas I used to be sympathetic. (I worked in grocery stores for 6 years and saw public welfare systems greatly abused, I think this led to my lack of sympathy)
I'm a capitalistic INFP, so I feel you there. I know people on welfare you have can afford more than my whole working family can. Nicer houses, cars, computers, drugs, all paid for by the government.
 

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I'm glad you feel like the odd-man out.
It means you have something to teach us, but also something to learn from us as well. Reciprocal relationships are always the best.

My advice? Be yourself and share whatever is on your mind. It's really easy to fall into line and worry about stepping on toes around here -- sadly, this can make things bland.
 

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I'm a capitalistic INFP, so I feel you there. I know people on welfare you have can afford more than my whole working family can. Nicer houses, cars, computers, drugs, all paid for by the government.
It seems there are more people on welfare these days. Maybe I should stop working and go on EBT cuz everyone's doing it.
 

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I don't like anime either. But i think it's a little sad that you feel no empathy for the lower class. I'm sure you all really feel them "abusing the welfare system" as if it's coming out of your pocket. Everyone always talks about people on welfare as if they're such a burden, but tax cuts for the oil companies and trillions of dollars spent on meaningless wars are just perfectly fine. Let them spend their money on drugs if they want to. And we can all mind our own business.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
No, actually, you sound a lot like me. Are you leaning towards "t"? I'm right between, I guess it make for a little less empathy and a little more critical thinking. Also i have no idea what it is but the dressing thing is so accurate. Whenever my mind is somewhere else completely, I stop caring about my looks, but most of the time I do try. I've never heard someone say that before but it's very accurate.
I've think over the years I've started to develop my T side more, even though I ignore it a lot of times. Basically, I'll use whichever function that let's me believe people are actually good people. If something happens with a friend that's questionable, if it's easier for me to believe them by using logic I go with that, otherwise I just stick to "gut feeling". I'm actually borderline J, usually test at 52% P and I've noticed a lot of INFJ traits in myself, but I'm sure you can find traits from all personality types in oneself.
 

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I've become quite bitter towards the lower class, whereas I used to be sympathetic. (I worked in grocery stores for 6 years and saw public welfare systems greatly abused, I think this led to my lack of sympathy)
You're not the only INFP who feels this way. I have met bitter lower-class people who act as if the entire world can be neatly categorized into economic brackets/groups, and deny that the upper-class can be regular individuals with their own stresses, dreams, and values. I agree that amongst the general INFP population we are in the minority when it comes to this aspect, but there are many INFP's who reject the collectivist mentality in favor of supporting individual pursuit.
 

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@www589

I also really dislike anime. xD

Edit: About the abuse of the welfare system. It can go either way. Added consumer surplus, an externality on the government's funding for additional welfare support, while being a direct cost to government surplus, adds to producer surplus in the long run. Its essentially a distribution principle that balances out in the end with producers earning the benefits and consumer utility increasing for the various commodities/services they receive.
 

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While there is certainly a great deal of abuse of things like welfare, compared to the corporate welfare and fraud of the elite of society, it is negligible.
I tend to agree. The money lost on people manipulating welfare is vastly overshadowed by what corporations have done.

I've fallen from the middle to the lower class in my lifetime, and I interact with people from all walks of life. If there is one thing I've learned in my short life, it's hard work doesn't always get you what you need. It's sad, but true. Our model of capitalism doesn't work like it should in regards to rewarding the ambitious. If anything... well, I find it very depressing when I talk to people bitter about the lower class. Lower class people often become bitter about other lower class people for a number of reasons, including the competition for jobs/within jobs, those that manipulate the system, and the middle/upper class people who choose to demonize the lower (i.e. drugged up welfare-riding criminals).

I don't know. I fight to change the image of the people I've learned to love and fight for. So many people don't know I'm in poverty, because the university supports me as I get my degree, so I seek to educate the countless fairly well-off students I interact with. There will always be people that manipulate benefits, but... does 2% justify any negative actions?
 

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This false perception is clearly seen in the current discussion of austerity measures. The economic problems of the US are far more likely to be blamed on unions and so called welfare queens than they are on corporate welfare or the military industrial complex, even less so on the federal reserve and core of the monetary system itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well, while we're arguing this: In a more tangible, "business minded" sense little to nothing the corporations do is unethical. They're in the business of making a profit, which keeps people with jobs and provides essential new technologies, services, etc. Although, some top level corporate officials may grossly benefit from the success of their own business, to call them heartless unethical people isn't fair. Just because someone doesn't have the same "human element" viewpoint that we have, doesn't make either one of us right or wrong. As much as NF types are needed, the opposite is also needed, mainly because we would never actually get anything done. I'm sure there are also more feeling types in charge of companies than you would imagine. Not all business practices are decided solely on profit, some things just have to be done to make sure that the regular Joe down the street has a job to go to tomorrow. Basically, despite the fact that a small number of individuals may be overcompensated, other individuals are rewarded in the process. Plus, let's not forget all the corporations that include substantial amounts of philanthropy into their yearly budgets. On the other hand, how can one argue that an individual who sits on the couch all day, getting high, and then goes and cashes their welfare check so they can live another month without any contribution to society is in fact ethical? At least in the business world, there is a give to the take, whereas in the world of welfare (not in all cases but the ones in which I'm referring to) there is no give, only take. It seems as though the cold, logical businessman is more identifiable to the INFP than the non-contributing welfare recipient.
 

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To play devil's advocate; Enron? The UK's MPs' expense claims scandal? The corporate culture of banking in general? Also,

www589 said:
I believe every one should work for what they want, stopping at nothing to get it.
What if these people are perfectly content with their substance use and apathy towards their appearance? I agree that productivity is more beneficial to society, but I am not liable to judge the worth of a person on their contributions to a social construct. Attitude and intention is more important to me. Also, when 'stopping at nothing' involves 'trampling mercilessly over other people', particularly with regards to backstabbing, duplicitous methods and exploiting bureaucratic loopholes, I absolutely draw the line. This is not a personal attack, but I actually find it quite interesting that an INFP would hold that kind of 'value system', because I recognise it in very conservative-minded, pragmatic, businesslike types and while I can't say I completely disagree there are a lot of presumptions I don't like.
 
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