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If we see the enneagram and jungian cognitive functions as fixations and, as lenore thomson puts it, "investments";
The main purpose of Lenore's vocabulary of attitudes is to enable you to see beyond the limits of your ego. It gives you a conscious perspective on aspects of yourself that are not necessarily part of your self-image.

The alternative self-understanding that it gives you is: "I have made a number of investments, in both mental working and social position, that have put me into the position where I am today. These investments are not me, they're just investments. I could invest in completely different things, and I can see how I'd be starting from scratch. I could continue investing in the same things, and I can see how I'd get very quick results but would miss out on developing other capacities."
... where does the "self" lie?

It seems to me that people who become really involved in systems of personality online become -more- like their type, and cling onto it for dear life. Perhaps because they find belonging amongst people who appear to be like minded (when really all it is, is a bunch of people who have the same fixations). They say, I have my type and "this is me". But is this the 'self'? or does the notion of personality/ego fix, have to be transcended in some way in order to be in it? is the ego fix too limited and narrow, and fears incorporating what it thinks it 'is not' which in turn, prohibits and represses coming into something more whole?

Reminds me of this;
As the Taoists see it, yin and yang are complementary parts of a whole, so if we choose one and try to block out the other, we upset nature's balance. What results, as Jung (1963) points out, is restricted adaptability and, in many cases, physical or emotional illness. From the Taoist perspective, to be whole and follow the Tao, we must be willing to accept our dual nature and integrate the opposites.

As did Jung, I consider the integration of opposites to be of primary importance for self-actualization. In working with my clients, I inevitably come across areas of one-sidedness or imbalance that need to be addressed. Sometimes, it might be doing that is valued over being.
Is one sided-ness worth working through, even if you think what you are attached to, works? I suppose it's a means of survival to be attached to a way of living, but the greatest gift of stress (internal and external) is that we have no choice but to adapt because our ordinary way of approaching life, does not work. And we finally become aware that there is a way of life beyond what we know.
 

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That is a very nice description of the so-called entity we harbor in us: The Self.Thank you, Nova:proud:

Truly, if we progress to realize the dual nature of ourselves, we shall see a beauty far beyond the normal human scope. Indeed, fulfilling the Self is basically what we all thrive for, isn't it?:happy:
 
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That is a very nice description of the so-called entity we harbor in us: The Self.Thank you, Nova:proud:

Truly, if we progress to realize the dual nature of ourselves, we shall see a beauty far beyond the normal human scope. Indeed, fulfilling the Self is basically what we all thrive for, isn't it?:happy:
Cheers, M domino ^.^ you write quite poetically.

It's interesting how in the west, our idea of becoming the self is to do with "self actualisation" - being someone you -want- to be and realising potential. I find it is the harder, (more worthwhile) path to come to grips with the "whole self". It's not a rejection of the self.. indeed, it's the supreme acceptance and embracing of the whole. It has taken me almost a year of reading the same enneagram profiles repeatedly for it to finally suddenly hit me like a thud- of the many parts of myself i'd rather not acknowledge and of which I deny oxygen. And given that I see them clearly, and I have the opportunity to accept them, that it's now that I can see myself with a new perspective. I look at how I have fallen into the habit of reacting to the events in my life, and say "I don't have to be like that". These are just adaptive schemas, not ways of approaching life I have to live by because I'm attached to them, without question. All they are, are attachments- they aren't 'me' and they don't have to be. I don't have to fear things that are opposed to what is seemingly familiar to me.

It's like I was closed, and now I am open.
 

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Cheers, M domino ^.^ you write quite poetically.

It's interesting how in the west, our idea of becoming the self is to do with "self actualisation" - being someone you -want- to be and realising potential. I find it is the harder, (more worthwhile) path to come to grips with the "whole self". It's not a rejection of the self.. indeed, it's the supreme acceptance and embracing of the whole. It has taken me almost a year of reading the same enneagram profiles repeatedly for it to finally suddenly hit me like a thud- of the many parts of myself i'd rather not acknowledge and of which I deny oxygen. And given that I see them clearly, and I have the opportunity to accept them, that it's now that I can see myself with a new perspective. I look at how I have fallen into the habit of reacting to the events in my life, and say "I don't have to be like that". These are just adaptive schemas, not ways of approaching life I have to live by because I'm attached to them, without question. All they are, are attachments. I don't have to fear things that are opposed to what is seemingly familiar to me.

It's like I was closed, and now I am open.
Indeed. In my blog, I wrote about my immature self and my resolved self. My immature self focused only on the selfish aspects of my being. I had a very BAD, NEGATIVE super-ego. I basically told myself all the time, "People are this, people are that" and I guess that's why people didn't like me very much.

When I learned to accept the fact that people my age are also doing their best to be mature in their own way, things became brighter and happier. I felt much more alive! :laughing:

I believe... to realize ourselves, we must stop lying to ourselves. Then, we can reach the potential we have:happy: After all, there is a saying, the universe will help you achieve a certain goal right?:proud:
 
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Indeed. In my blog, I wrote about my immature self and my resolved self. My immature self focused only on the selfish aspects of my being. I had a very BAD, NEGATIVE super-ego. I basically told myself all the time, "People are this, people are that" and I guess that's why people didn't like me very much.

When I learned to accept the fact that people my age are also doing their best to be mature in their own way, things became brighter and happier. I felt much more alive! :laughing:

I believe... to realize ourselves, we must stop lying to ourselves. Then, we can reach the potential we have:happy: After all, there is a saying, the universe will help you achieve a certain goal right?:proud:
Well done. I think it takes a lot of self work (or a moment of supreme clarity) to go beyond ways of looking at the world that 'fill' our ego in some way. Like we become bitter because we had a crumby relationship with someone. Seeing the bad in everything then became a comforting filter of reality because it prevented us from getting hurt again. But at the end of the day, all that is is a defense mechanism... a way of coping. Not any truthful way of approaching the world, that leads to growth in any way.

I think your last sentence is very true. I once read this somewhere, "a person's capacity for self-deception is not to be underestimated--such is the fate of human nature" and it's something that I always keep in the back of my mind. You can run away from things and deceive yourself all you want. But you know a self truth, when it hits you like a tonne of bricks. Anyone whose done self work, knows how painful it is to realise things about who you are sometimes, "In order to be effective truth must penetrate like an arrow - and that is likely to hurt." But, with acceptance, you move through it. It once was eating away at you unconsciously, but it isn't a burden anymore, because you've located it, and begun to deal with it.
 

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I love those quotes! They speak of universal truths. Interesting:crazy:

Do you believe material possessions hinder the progression to spiritual enlightenment? I know this is off-topic, but really. I want to hear your thoughts on it:happy:
 
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I love those quotes! They speak of universal truths. Interesting:crazy:

Do you believe material possessions hinder the progression to spiritual enlightenment? I know this is off-topic, but really. I want to hear your thoughts on it:happy:
I couldn't say I have any clue what enlightenment might entail, but..

This is something i've contemplated myself... I always seem to -want- things. But wanting more seems to change how you evaluate what you have. I have a $20 000 car, so anything less than the quality of a $20 000 car, I won't be satisfied with. I suppose though, material possessions can also be a point of comparison that can work positively in your favour too "well, I have an mp3 player and radio, and even though I don't have high speed internet on my computer, at least I have these gadgets, given a lot of people can't even afford these things". I suppose measuring what you have as a measure of being well off, can get you in a tricky spot though. At what point is having things less about a satisfactory life, and more about distractions, filling holes and living (what propagators of these possessions and the people who have them tell you is) the good life?

I think I would be unhappy if I lost all my possessions, not necessary because I need them, but because I would reject the situation. I get really pissed off in black outs, because what do you do when there is no technology? you can't do anything... boring! but there is much to learn from not being around so much stimulus all the time, and really embracing the moment of now by not doing anything. I like going on holidays (to locations near nature), because it's like you operate differently. Instead of "filling time" or "using time" you just sit in the pocket of time. You tend to just sit and do nothing a lot of the time... and you start noticing things and thinking more. I suppose up to a point, you need material objects for security. But past a certain point, all they seem to become is distractions from the eternal now. Why buy ten pairs of shoes when you can find out something about yourself and what motivates you, by asking why you want those things in the first place? why buy more and more video games, when you can learn to stop rejecting the experience of "doing nothing"?

What do you think, Domino? :)
 

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Wouldn't for me the opposite of Ni be Se and the opposite of Fe be Ti. So in that to create a Yin/Yang style of balance I must create harmony within those opposites. In that creating a balance of a whole within my dual nature. To create harmony with Ni-Fe-Ti-Se to me should be my goal in finding complete self just as the Yin/Yang in it's self.
If I only use Ni-Fe and ignore Ti-Se this would upset my natural balance as well as trying to become who I am not.
To try to create a harmony amongst everything for myself that is not me would be dis-harmony a disorganization with me. An example that isn't cognitive talk would be that I am an American and it would be wise to understand other people from other country's. But foolish for me to try to be like everybody else from other country's. I should focus on who I am to be who I am not what others are. As the Tao put's it "to know others is wise, to know yourself is enlightenment".


IDK know how to re-quote this part,

"As the Taoists see it, yin and yang are complementary parts of a whole, so if we choose one and try to block out the other, we upset nature's balance. What results, as Jung (1963) points out, is restricted adaptability and, in many cases, physical or emotional illness. From the Taoist perspective, to be whole and follow the Tao, we must be willing to accept our dual nature and integrate the opposites.

As did Jung, I consider the integration of opposites to be of primary importance for self-actualization. In working with my clients, I inevitably come across areas of one-sidedness or imbalance that need to be addressed. Sometimes, it might be doing that is valued over being."
 
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