Personality Cafe banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is OCD extremely prevalent in INTJs? Other Js as well?

The science of OCD is that it stems from seratonin receptors being in small abundance. Because the body isn't receiving as much seratonin as it wants, it tries desperately to get more by repeating the same procedures in an OCD fashion. To me, this is exactly what causes someone to be a "J", and seek closure, because with closure, a process can be repeated which can facilitate the need to acquire seratonin.

On the opposite side, P types perhaps have an overabundance of seratonin receptors, and would just rather have more seratonin/endorphins/whatever to use these receptors. So they seek ways to use all the receptors, and don't care about closure (plenty of seratonin already pumping in the body).

You masterminds, tell me what you think of this concept.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
I don't know about the disorder bit as its not exactly disorderly unless it interrupts normal life functions or the P bit as my understanding is there is a unique brain wiring there completely (though you could be right). But I believe there is some validity with the "lock on" tendency with someone of the J type with a proper motivation, dependent on the person of course.

Before I had my psychotic break from allergies, I definitely had selective "OCD" tendencies when researching and couldn't eat or sleep until I felt I had "something". Now I am completely unable to "lock on" or sustain interest and find myself mostly bored of things I should be ravenously studying, lol. I believe another part to be considered of the mechanism has to do with the dopamine influx. Its counterbalanced by serotonin and to some extent oxytocin. So, there is presentation of reward/problem and mass dopamine excitation which is fun in the moment but that can't be sustained so there is a selective let off via the serotonin pathways once you get to the reward of solving it. I need to think about this more mostly to work out some better wording for what I want to say, interesting question though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,411 Posts
Low levels of serotonin seems to relate to Neuroticism which isn't properly captured under any of the MBTI preferences. It has a comorbidity with other anxiety disorders. In MBTI the type that seems the most anxious is the INFP, in my opinion. I can see the J needing closure theory making sense but I'm not sure that it's a problem in their case but just normal behavior.

I developed a subclinical OCD after a particular incident and can spend 20 minutes a day doing stupid routines. Doesn't sound like much but when you check a door for ten minutes it can get a bit panicky, at least that's my experience. But I don't know, maybe it's like depression that all sorts of people can get it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,369 Posts
I'm not so certain that the abundance (or lack of) serotonin receptors is the only factor at play, though it is crucial, I agree. All I am aware of is that people with OCD tend to have abnormalities within the brain, namely three parts: the orbital cortex, the Basal Ganglia and the thalamus. A "misfiring" occurs when inappropriate response between these parts is carried out as the anxiety of the OCD sufferer rises, in turn setting a chain of reactions in motion, resulting in the overactivation of the cingulate nucleus. At this point, it becomes nearly impossible for the individual to ignore carrying out certain behaviors. To avoid whatever consequences, the OCD sufferer "succumbs" to the compulsions (and if you would like to look at this from a behavioral perspective, carrying out the compulsive behaviors leads to a decrease in the anxiety a.k.a. negative reinforcement. The individual is now far more likely to succumb to the compulsions to remove said anxiety).
Actually, now that I think about it, I'm certain it hasn't been fully established by research that a malfunction in one or more of the serotonin receptors is a plausible cause of OCD (and therefore the "J" aspect in MBTI types in general). Congratulations, @Frenetic Tranquility, you've piqued my interest. Perhaps a little tweaking? I'd like to reach some sort of conclusion...

 
  • Like
Reactions: Wizardry

·
Administrator
INTJ - ILI - 8w9 - Libtard
Joined
·
22,758 Posts
This is why ENFP ex went around the house straightening the rugs? Perhaps he simply liked the process of it.

I don't have OCD or anything near it yet I'm a J.

Whenever I passed the newly straightened rugs I just couldn't fucking help myself, I had to skew it a little, I guess I liked seeing the results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,411 Posts
This is why ENFP ex went around the house straightening the rugs? Perhaps he simply liked the process of it.

I don't have OCD or anything near it yet I'm a J.

Whenever I passed the newly straightened rugs I just couldn't fucking help myself, I had to skew it a little, I guess I liked seeing the results.
Yes, and I have a subclinical OCD and I'm a P. But as I understand it this would be a statistical law and they don't apply to individuals. Maybe there should be a sticky on that. A poll might be more interesting, especially if the theory wasn't mentioned in advance.
 

·
Administrator
INTJ - ILI - 8w9 - Libtard
Joined
·
22,758 Posts
Yes, and I have a subclinical OCD and I'm a P. But as I understand it this would be a statistical law and they don't apply to individuals. Maybe there should be a sticky on that. A poll might be more interesting, especially if the theory wasn't mentioned in advance.
My post was tongue in cheek. I don't support any of the ideas of J vs P T vs F etc to have more predilections or unhealthy traits, I think these are the reasons why other types are attracted to certain types over others.....they misconstrue functions for descriptors of their illnesses. I agree wholeheartedly with @Action Potential.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,411 Posts
My post was tongue in cheek. I don't support any of the ideas of J vs P T vs F etc to have more predilections or unhealthy traits, I think these are the reasons why other types are attracted to certain types over others.....they misconstrue functions for descriptors of their illnesses. I agree wholeheartedly with @Action Potential.
Ok, duly noted. Personally I believe it there are many connections between normal traits and psychiactric conditions. I even suspect they are more or less the same thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How do you know I perceive OCD as unhealthy? Maybe in the extreme it is. Just because it's considered a disorder by name, doesn't mean that's my conception of it, I am just utilizing the appropriate jargon. The opposite would probably be considered laziness/procrastination, which have an equally derogatory connotation (although my feelings on these are no more negative than OCD, they are just a state of being and natural tendency, complete with associated positives and negatives).

I noticed several of you indicated that INFP/ENFP are especially proned to OCD (especially relationship OCD), and I agree and had considered this even before posting, but had not fully formulated that thought yet.

My instincts tell me that feelings use the same receptors as are used for seratonin. So when feelings become overwhelming, it produces anxiety due to lack of seratonin being taken in, and thus an anxiety loop occurs (OCD) to try and produce enough seratonin. In essence, under the stress of feelings, P types become more J (low receptors). By this logic, INFP/ENFP have the most erratic patterns of thought either way, oscillating between extreme calm and extreme OCD almost at a whim, which I think we can all agree with if we are being honest. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,369 Posts
How do you know I perceive OCD as unhealthy? Maybe in the extreme it is. Just because it's considered a disorder by name, doesn't mean that's my conception of it, I am just utilizing the appropriate jargon. The opposite would probably be considered laziness/procrastination, which have an equally derogatory connotation (although my feelings on these are no more negative than OCD, they are just a state of being and natural tendency, complete with associated positives and negatives).

I noticed several of you indicated that INFP/ENFP are especially proned to OCD (especially relationship OCD), and I agree and had considered this even before posting, but had not fully formulated that thought yet.

My instincts tell me that feelings use the same receptors as are used for seratonin. So when feelings become overwhelming, it produces anxiety due to lack of seratonin being taken in, and thus an anxiety loop occurs (OCD) to try and produce enough seratonin. In essence, under the stress of feelings, P types become more J (low receptors). By this logic, INFP/ENFP have the most erratic patterns of thought either way, oscillating between extreme calm and extreme OCD almost at a whim, which I think we can all agree with if we are being honest. :)
The anxiety which arises in an OCD sufferer is said to come from the cingulate nucleus at the center of the brain; the cingulate nucleus (or rather the "misinformation" transmitted by the cingulate nucelus) is what signals the individual that something terrible will happen if they do not carry out the compulsive behavior, and thus anxiety levels begin to rise as the individual begins to sense a sort of "impending doom". We do not know if serotonin receptors are key to the explanation of the cause of OCD (though it might be plausible). I don't think it would be good to base your theory on shaky ideas that have yet to be empirically established.

Just sayin'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
567 Posts
I'm an INTJ and I have a mild case of OCD, leaning more towards the obsessive side than compulsive. I can't say I know a great deal about the neuroscience stuff, but there's another number for those who do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The anxiety which arises in an OCD sufferer is said to come from the cingulate nucleus at the center of the brain; the cingulate nucleus (or rather the "misinformation" transmitted by the cingulate nucelus) is what signals the individual that something terrible will happen if they do not carry out the compulsive behavior, and thus anxiety levels begin to rise as the individual begins to sense a sort of "impending doom". We do not know if serotonin receptors are key to the explanation of the cause of OCD (though it might be plausible). I don't think it would be good to base your theory on shaky ideas that have yet to be empirically established.

Just sayin'.
I agree completely, I am not a neuroscientist nor have I performed experiments linking OCD to serotonin. However, another post here linked the two in a very scientific study, and even a simple google search for serotonin/OCD will produce an alarmingly large number of results, in which experts have scientifically linked the two to some degree of certainty (nothing in science is absolute, only in so much as we can perceive).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,369 Posts
I agree completely, I am not a neuroscientist nor have I performed experiments linking OCD to serotonin. However, another post here linked the two in a very scientific study, and even a simple google search for serotonin/OCD will produce an alarmingly large number of results, in which experts have scientifically linked the two to some degree of certainty (nothing in science is absolute, only in so much as we can perceive).
Touche. Oh, well. A little critical thinking never hurt anybody.

proceed-480x359.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
I noticed several of you indicated that INFP/ENFP are especially proned to OCD (especially relationship OCD), and I agree and had considered this even before posting, but had not fully formulated that thought yet.

My instincts tell me that feelings use the same receptors as are used for seratonin. So when feelings become overwhelming, it produces anxiety due to lack of seratonin being taken in, and thus an anxiety loop occurs (OCD) to try and produce enough seratonin. In essence, under the stress of feelings, P types become more J (low receptors). By this logic, INFP/ENFP have the most erratic patterns of thought either way, oscillating between extreme calm and extreme OCD almost at a whim, which I think we can all agree with if we are being honest. :)
Just a question for clarification. You state that perhaps feelings use the same receptors as serotonin. How do you define feelings? I was not under impression they use receptors (as in a chemical cascade). Or do you refer more to a probable or possible chemical cascade generated somehow by a feeling?

I am quite aware that heightened states of anxiety set off brain and liver cascades of many sorts, but ... perhaps the various cascade of molecular and chemical events precipitate the feeling? plz, define?

thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It turns out there is more scientific evidence for my theory than I thought.

The primary means for serotonin to be metabolized is from tryptophan. It is a protein. It is only able to be metabolized successfully when not in competition with other proteins, as it has to pass through to the brain from the bloodstream, and there is limited room for this to happen.

So if people produce too much of something like testosterone, more proteins will be available, and hence less ability to produce serotonin. This is why body builders who use steroids get ragey, and also probably OCD about weightlifting because they are desperately trying to speed the production of serotonin. I would expect that "feeling" chemicals accelerate proteins in much the same way, thus also blocking serotonin reception, but I have not found evidence yet (haven't tried).

So with this in mind, if "J" types actually have less ways for tryptophan to pass through, or they naturally produce more testosterone or some other chemical that encourages the production of proteins, then they will naturally have less ability to create serotonin, which leads to OCD tendencies.

There's tons more info to say/find here, but that's a base sketch of the small amount of research that I have done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
And furthermore, when you fall for somoene, especially women who produce more testosterone during infatuation, which leads to the limiting of serotonin and produces a specific type of OCD (limerence in the extreme cases). :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just a question for clarification. You state that perhaps feelings use the same receptors as serotonin. How do you define feelings? I was not under impression they use receptors (as in a chemical cascade). Or do you refer more to a probable or possible chemical cascade generated somehow by a feeling?

I am quite aware that heightened states of anxiety set off brain and liver cascades of many sorts, but ... perhaps the various cascade of molecular and chemical events precipitate the feeling? plz, define?

thanks
I define feelings as being a series of chemical reactions (what else could cause them logically).
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top