[autumn potential]

When ENTP's are under stress, they go Si crazy and become obsessed with minor details. This comes in the form of extreme perfectionism so that the ENTP will either complete the task to perfection or will run out of time

This is why ENTP's can put off something till the very last minute and then pull out award winning quality (depending on how severe the procrastination was and how complex the task was of course)

agree? disagree?

 

[Phoenix Down]

I can see how it can work.

The pressure does make me more efficient, and I like quality anyway.

 

[autumn potential]

EDIT The ENTP uses Se when under stress sorry

 

[YourMom]

Even when we're not doing the task, our subconscious mind is still doing the task, or at least figuring out how to do it. So while we may keep it till the last minute, we've already done it a thousand times in our mind. It's just a matter of executing it physically.

 

[Jerick]

EDIT The ENTP uses Se when under stress sorry

I guess you weren't under stress when writing that post?

 

[Monte]

Even when we're not doing the task, our subconscious mind is still doing the task, or at least figuring out how to do it. So while we may keep it till the last minute, we've already done it a thousand times in our mind. It's just a matter of executing it physically.

This.

Just because I'm not physically doing it, doesn't mean I'm not thinking about it.

And if it's something important, I convince myself that I'm doing good by telling myself that I'm a least thinking about it~

 

[SlowPoke68]

I grant the functional analysis, but I think there is something else at work there.

If I start working on it with enough time to finish I get TOO perfectionist. I start to overthink things and realize that it will never be exactly as I want, and I get discouraged. It (whatever it is) starts to look like a tragedy in the making. Doing it at the last minute makes me feel like a virtual god even if the quality isn't perfect, and serves as an excuse for not quite getting everything right.

When I really try to do something well I tend to rely on getting some part of the task done with some flourish of greatness that will stand out, even if overall the work is just ordinary or passable. I need something to hang my hat on and distract from the mundane crap I couldn't discipline myself to take seriously.

Maybe that's just me. I tend to drive people crazy doing things this way. They just don't understand. :wink:

 

[autumn potential]

Even when we're not doing the task, our subconscious mind is still doing the task, or at least figuring out how to do it. So while we may keep it till the last minute, we've already done it a thousand times in our mind. It's just a matter of executing it physically.

You do have a point here, but then why arent all the NT types so good at last minute? or are they? When under stress apparently INTP's become super melodramatic and feel sorry for themselves and have a hard time getting anything done (heard straight from an INTP friends mouth, that might just of been her though). They think about what they want to do on a project before they do it also:happy:

 

[YourMom]

You do have a point here, but then why arent all the NT types so good at last minute? or are they? When under stress apparently INTP's become super melodramatic and feel sorry for themselves and have a hard time getting anything done (heard straight from an INTP friends mouth, that might just of been her though). They think about what they want to do on a project before they do it also:happy:

I'd assume it has something to do with us having Ne dominant function. We're just naturally better at planning the near future quickly due to our creativity.

 

[amajakgar]

I grant the functional analysis, but I think there is something else at work there.

If I start working on it with enough time to finish I get TOO perfectionist. I start to overthink things and realize that it will never be exactly as I want, and I get discouraged. It (whatever it is) starts to look like a tragedy in the making. Doing it at the last minute makes me feel like a virtual god even if the quality isn't perfect, and serves as an excuse for not quite getting everything right.

When I really try to do something well I tend to rely on getting some part of the task done with some flourish of greatness that will stand out, even if overall the work is just ordinary or passable. I need something to hang my hat on and distract from the mundane crap I couldn't discipline myself to take seriously.

Maybe that's just me. I tend to drive people crazy doing things this way. They just don't understand.

Nope...it's me too!

 

[Ray Mabry]

Disagree. I don't think that just one function helps us in this regard nor do I find that the "shadow functions" ever really over ride me completely that I need to rely on them when under stress.

When under stress I find that the Te shadow function 'causes me to try to set up things so that I can efficiently use my other functions to handle the task at hand. Once I arrange things it relieves stress and allows my main functions to come back into play so they can work as quickly as humanly possible.

According to Socionics (which I trust more for it's definition of cognitive functions than anything else it says) says that Ne is responsible for interest so i'd imagine that our Ne is sparked when we realize we are almost out of time. This causes our Ne to start to throw out as many possibilities pertaining to the subject as it can while our Ti works hard to try to sort through for those that would be relevant to the project. We usually pick topics for our projects that have something to do with whatever we know so it's usually easy for us to have many opinions on the subject. Ni might come out under stress to help us bullshit new possibilities when we get stuck and then Ne and Ti basically run with it once the fact that we have something new to say relieves our stress.

I would doubt that Se would come into play all that much because i've always imagined Shadow functions to operate in turn with our main ones and Se I still imagine to take alot of processing power for us because it's last in order and the order as I understand it is set up in a way that basically assumes that if we have highly developed one of our dichotomies then then it's opposite is weak. So since Ne is really strong Si is really weak and our shadow functions still follow that. To me, our shadows are just us changing how we use our functions which is hard to do normally but when we are desperate we look for a new way of using what we already know.

So it is my theory that when we are under stress we take our two dominant functions and try to use them in a new way to see if we can relive our stress. Ne and Ti are strong so if we invert our intuition and extrovert our thinking even if they may never match up with those that use Ni and Te naturally, they can get the job done as need be. So we go between using Ni and Te whenever we need to relieve our stress at least when related to projects that take creativity (which includes school and work projects) [Both being offshoots of Ne and Ti which our type would normally create with] and then once the stress is relieved a bit we use Ne and Ti to move forward with whatever those two functions have achieved. So for me it is a Ne Ti Ni Te interaction that takes place.

Also I will note that we intuitively have probably tried to understand whomever we are trying to give the project to so we those who we can hand in a paper or whatever to that is not necessarily up to par but will still get us an A. It's probably alot easier for us to complete work for those types of people in a short amount of time.

 

[Tad Cooper]

I know it happens, I'm not sure about the Se function being responsible though, I'd have thought more Ne (we can grab ideas from our minds quickly and use them effectively with Ti, which may be sped up with stress because people generally like some thinking time if they can have it).
So I agree with Ray, Ne + Ti, unsure about the Ni + Te bit though (my Ni isn't all that strong and yet I can easily BS my way out of any situation and crush people in spontaneous debates).

 

[Jerick]

When under stress apparently INTP's become super melodramatic and feel sorry for themselves and have a hard time getting anything done

Are you talking about last minute stress, or stress in general? I do almost everything at the last minute because I don't feel any energy or desire to do it until then.

This is just a P thing, because our functions are action oriented. In other words, we like to keep our long range plans flexible so that we can do things in the present, as we go, so we want to do things only when have to. J types like to make their long term plans concrete and then follow those, because their functions are future oriented.

That's why J types get upset when they've made mistakes, because they spend so much time planning for what they're going to do, while P types don't worry as much about mistakes because we like to refine things and change course without concrete plans to follow. For a P type, following a plan is boring so we would rather put decisions off until we have to, such as last minute work.

 

[Ray Mabry]

I know it happens, I'm not sure about the Se function being responsible though, I'd have thought more Ne (we can grab ideas from our minds quickly and use them effectively with Ti, which may be sped up with stress because people generally like some thinking time if they can have it).
So I agree with Ray, Ne + Ti, unsure about the Ni + Te bit though (my Ni isn't all that strong and yet I can easily BS my way out of any situation and crush people in spontaneous debates).

I'm basically theorizing that we come up with new ideas using Ni that can be sorted out by Ne and Ti and that Te helps us become more efficient but Ni and Te only come up when under stress. Once we use them to solve our problem we quickly go back to using Ne and Ti until we get stuck again. So Ni and Te would still be really weak for us but would naturally be the first two shadow functions to come to our aid. Ni would help us come up with new possibilities and Te would help us organize ourselves a bit so we can come up with a process for getting whatever we need to be done, done. Those that use Ni and Te as their dominants would have skills that are FAR more developed than ours but we still would use those to assist our Ne Ti when under stress.

For me I see it as when I get stuck I might come up with a new idea out of nowhere that i'm not sure relates but it's a new idea so I use my Ne/Ti to roll with it. I see that as Ni coming to my aid.
I also organize all of my books and papers and try to figure out the fastest way to figure out what i'm supposed to do. I see that as Te coming to my aid. As soon as I do these things the stress is relived a bit and I go back to relying on Ne/Ti to run with what i've just done.

 

[Jerick]

When under stress apparently INTP's become super melodramatic and feel sorry for themselvesand have a hard time getting anything done (heard straight from an INTP friends mouth, that might just of been her though).

By the way, that doesn't sound like a T type of reaction. She might be a mistyped INFP, or something.

 

[Tad Cooper]

I'm basically theorizing that we come up with new ideas using Ni that can be sorted out by Ne and Ti and that Te helps us become more efficient but Ni and Te only come up when under stress. Once we use them to solve our problem we quickly go back to using Ne and Ti until we get stuck again. So Ni and Te would still be really weak for us but would naturally be the first two shadow functions to come to our aid. Ni would help us come up with new possibilities and Te would help us organize ourselves a bit so we can come up with a process for getting whatever we need to be done, done. Those that use Ni and Te as their dominants would have skills that are FAR more developed than ours but we still would use those to assist our Ne Ti when under stress.

For me I see it as when I get stuck I might come up with a new idea out of nowhere that i'm not sure relates but it's a new idea so I use my Ne/Ti to roll with it. I see that as Ni coming to my aid.
I also organize all of my books and papers and try to figure out the fastest way to figure out what i'm supposed to do. I see that as Te coming to my aid. As soon as I do these things the stress is relived a bit and I go back to relying on Ne/Ti to run with what i've just done.

Ah right, that would make sense (shadow functions and such). I thought the shadow functions were more of a hinderance than a help though?

 

[Ray Mabry]

Ah right, that would make sense (shadow functions and such). I thought the shadow functions were more of a hinderance than a help though?

Well from what I read it says : "The shadow processes "operate more on the boundaries of our awareness…We usually experience these processes in a negative way, yet when we are open to them, they can be quite positive."

So I don't see them as being a bad thing at all times. When I look at Socionics I kind of see them as going about the whole thing in a completely different approach from MBTI (although it may look similar). They basically say that we can use all 8 but to different degrees. MBTI states the quote above so this is how I look at it:

I think that we rely on the first 4 (or really first 2 with the other 2 depending upon our level of "maturity") and have almost no reliance on the other 4 shadow functions so they are harder for us to understand, develop, or even be aware of. When we become stressed we look for brand new ways to use our skills that we've already developed which leads us to extrovert our introverted functions and introvert our extroverted functions to solve that stress. After all we get stressed when what we usually rely on stops working for us.

I think that we can usually experience our shadow functions in a positive way when our stress level is not ridiculously higher than what we can handle. When it becomes too much we rely on our shadow functions for too long trying to figure out a new way and it leads to disaster or a negative experience because our stress level is never resolved causing us keep relying on them.

I think i've seen something like this in myself. For example:

When I was younger I used to become depressed in cycles. For a week i'd be energized, happy, and clear thinking and for 2 or more i'd pretty much be the opposite and I was really stressed all the time during these moments. At some point during these cycles i'd start worrying about all of my creative ideas and trying to write them down and organize them. Sometimes i'd stay up all night doing that. I'd lay down, random thoughts would pop into my head and then i'd freak out about how I was gonna use them and start writing them down and planning them out as far as I could. I think that this was a negative experience of Te and this was at a point where there was really nothing that would lower my stress unless the depression itself subsided.

Doing school work however is a whole different ball game. When my stress levels start to get up there I can relieve them by solving whatever problem is in front of me. So when my shadow functions come out during the brief period in which my stress levels get up there they usually help resolve my stress levels because they were the missing skills that I needed to get things done in the first place.

So I think that the Shadow Functions basically are a double edged sword. Because we have limited control or understanding of them they can help us when used appropriately under the right amount of stress but if we become too bent out of shape we'll only experience them negatively because we never really bring our stress levels down enough to be able to use our regular skill set (Ne Ti) to be able to handle the problem.

So that's basically why I theorize that. Perhaps i'm on to something and perhaps i'm not but by my own logic it seems to be the only thing that explains it hahaha

 

[Merov]

Geez 0_o.

Nice post. I basically do work by the seat of my pants...
~_~...or was that the edge of my seat.
..or pants...err...

Yeah 0_0...what the first guy said.
Bravo. Encore. Slow Clap..index, middle and ring finger softly patting away in the palm of my sweaty hand.

Only question I have.
Do all of you ENTP or INTP's try to rationalize the irrational, ie, the behaviour? If anything it's probably only subjective in relation to...majority.

Which is fine, unless you find yourself within unsaid minority : /

Oh bother.

 

[ZeRo]

When ENTP's are under stress, they go Si crazy and become obsessed with minor details. This comes in the form of extreme perfectionism so that the ENTP will either complete the task to perfection or will run out of time

This is why ENTP's can put off something till the very last minute and then pull out award winning quality (depending on how severe the procrastination was and how complex the task was of course)

agree? disagree?

I have never thought about it like that... but I do leave things to the last minute and I totally agree...
There are two instances that I can think of.

1. I spent half the year planning and testing and experiment and I left the essay writing till the last minute.
ie. I woke up Sat morning 6:00am and worked all day till 10m and then woke up again on Sun at 8:00am and pulled an all nighter (cos I didn't want to rush it and I was scrupulous) and handed it in at 8:00am Mon. I got the best mark of the year.

2. Same thing with my art assignment. I thought my PPT w/ audio would be quick.
I was so picky that I stayed up all night rearranging images, editing audio, script and transitions.
Got an epic mark on it. So stoked.

Surprises me though, every time...

I used to drink coffee when I pulled all nighters but I found out that I can do it with nothing at all.
The determination for the best makes it near impossible for me to sleep at all. (<-- kind of sucks)

TOTALLY AGREE... :crazy:

 

[YourMom]

Geez 0_o.

Nice post. I basically do work by the seat of my pants...
~_~...or was that the edge of my seat.
..or pants...err...

Yeah 0_0...what the first guy said.
Bravo. Encore. Slow Clap..index, middle and ring finger softly patting away in the palm of my sweaty hand.

Only question I have.
Do all of you ENTP or INTP's try to rationalize the irrational, ie, the behaviour? If anything it's probably only subjective in relation to...majority.

Which is fine, unless you find yourself within unsaid minority : /

Oh bother.

Usually "I only need a few hours to do this, so I'll do it on Sunday night" works for me.