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Does anyone ever wonder whether they’d be more content with living in a world where there are no states, no laws, where freedom isn’t restricted enough to the point that it doesn’t become freedom, I Believe we’re late for that in this day and age and all that’s left for us is to imagine.

I understand many suffered without civilization but I’m beginning to sense for long countless reasons that many are suffering now, it almost sounds like civilization is just a mask, like we all have masks of manners and decency cloaking our hidden nature and true emotions and desires, I guess what I’m wondering as well is, would it be better to live free and aware of how things are or to live safely in illusions of freedom and “humanism”

Humanism being the newest moral construct made by civilization to know what’s right and what’s wrong, that all men are equal and that we have rights that never existed before that claim
 

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You are here and posting is not a construct. It could only mean that your parent, grandparent, grand grand grand ancestor had survived the perilous test of time TOGETHER with billion others. How come they survive up until now? Because of constructs? Nope, because TOGETHER they evolve a (societal) system that keep improving over time and eventually allowing and facilitating billion of their offsprings to live in this planet at the very same time.

Society today is the result of evolution. Nothing is made up, every things, custom, tradition, is not something forced upon, it was born out of necessity in a very long and arduous labouring process.

It is easily tempting to say, oh this is obsolete, oh that one is hideous, oh i don't understand why this stupid custom happen in the first place, this is silly, that is useless. Well, a few really are but think again, try to dismantle one of such 'custom' and see the result. More often than not things are intricately interconnected that when one try to disrupt one thing, the whole other thing crumble. Next thing you know you may have cause the reduction of the planet capacity to hold billions of human at that very same time, as an example.

Change is unavoidable. Yet not every change is progress.
 

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ENTP type 8w5
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Discussion Starter #3
You are here and posting is not a construct. It could only mean that your parent, grandparent, grand grand grand ancestor had survived the perilous test of time TOGETHER with billion others. How come they survive up until now? Because of constructs? Nope, because TOGETHER they evolve a (societal) system that keep improving over time and eventually allowing and facilitating billion of their offsprings to live in this planet at the very same time.

Society today is the result of evolution. Nothing is made up, every things, custom, tradition, is not something forced upon, it was born out of necessity in a very long and arduous labouring process.

It is easily tempting to say, oh this is obsolete, oh that one is hideous, oh i don't understand why this stupid custom happen in the first place, this is silly, that is useless. Well, a few really are but think again, try to dismantle one of such 'custom' and see the result. More often than not things are intricately interconnected that when one try to disrupt one thing, the whole other thing crumble. Next thing you know you may have cause the reduction of the planet capacity to hold billions of human at that very same time.

Change is unavoidable. Yet not every change is progress.

I don’t think the progress of human species is anyone’s responsibility if it’s nature’s, the idea that nature in itself as if it’s some intelligent entity that always finds a way to better mankind and by other means cause extinction of other animals and species is unreasonable, I don’t think anything’s meant to be because from a big picture view it all seems chaotic, while I can’t deny some customs and religions etc have served a purpose to mankind they were also in service of purposes against their benefit

While change is inevitable, there’s no longer something new that could elude us into believing there’s a purpose or a secret hidden plan, perhaps the next change should by a cycle to return us to the beginning, as I believe the only quest and purpose that makes sense of life is a subjective one, one you can only find when all the curtains are down, everything and everyone is naked, and you facing it
 

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Great. Nature, mother earth, not only facilitate life, it also destroy life, and it recycle. So in a way, destruction is not always and necessarily mean bad thing, it could be because it just have to, it is the moral way to.

Yet nature give us human the path to evolve a rather big and complex brain. It must have a purpose or else mother nature would only breed macaques and bonobos, right.

What purpose? Many think to rule and conquer, living the maximum life, at all costs. Some think to make peace with nature with ridiculously minimum costs. Very very few, try their best to balance things out.
 

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Cooperation through the formation of agency increases power and the ability to accomplish goals. If this is what civilization consists of, it will form again, even if it is abolished.
 

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Does anyone ever wonder whether they’d be more content with living in a world where there are no states, no laws, where freedom isn’t restricted enough to the point that it doesn’t become freedom, I Believe we’re late for that in this day and age and all that’s left for us is to imagine.

I understand many suffered without civilization but I’m beginning to sense for long countless reasons that many are suffering now, it almost sounds like civilization is just a mask, like we all have masks of manners and decency cloaking our hidden nature and true emotions and desires, I guess what I’m wondering as well is, would it be better to live free and aware of how things are or to live safely in illusions of freedom and “humanism”

Humanism being the newest moral construct made by civilization to know what’s right and what’s wrong, that all men are equal and that we have rights that never existed before that claim
Civilization moralizes mankind, dismantle it and you devolve. Some of us believe in subjective morality, some objective morality, some of us restrict our actions to follow a code, some break those rules following a different code. When I want to understand "what is happening now" I follow the money. All manners of evil - Leaders being killed, genocides and wars are started for resources and access to resources - love of "money".
 

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That is true. But money, per se, is not the problem -- greed is. Money is only a unit of measure of our worth to civilization; it is legal tender to be bargained for our needs or desires. Greed causes evil.
 
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