*Gasp* I seem to have my own religion. It's 40% Theravada Buddhist, 15% Cathar/Gnostic, 10% Mayahana Buddhist, 10% Vajrayana Buddhist, 5% Sikh, 5% Presbytarian, 5% Catholic, 5% Sufi Islam, and 5% Nahua Animist. Or something like that.

Everyone's wrong because everyone's right. :]

That's a very dangerous thought. Is it right to have slaves? Religions of Abraham promote it.

Do rocks have spirits? Animist believe so.

Does homosexual intercourse cause earthquakes? Egyptians sure thought so.

Science is the only thing that can be correct, and even then we haven't figured many thing out.

Psilocin said:

Everyone's wrong because everyone's right. :]

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I'm not an ENFP but this is exactly how I feel about religion.

ikky36 said:

That's a very dangerous thought. Is it right to have slaves? Religions of Abraham promote it.

Do rocks have spirits? Animist believe so.

Does homosexual intercourse cause earthquakes? Egyptians sure thought so.

Science is the only thing that can be correct, and even then we haven't figured many thing out.

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You're reading FAR too much into what I'm saying.

ikky36 said:

That's a very dangerous thought. Is it right to have slaves? Religions of Abraham promote it.

Do rocks have spirits? Animist believe so.

Does homosexual intercourse cause earthquakes? Egyptians sure thought so.

Science is the only thing that can be correct, and even then we haven't figured many thing out.

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I just find that the statement "everyone is wrong because everyone is wrong" is a little more accurate. :laughing:

Psilocin said:

You're reading FAR too much into what I'm saying.

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There we go!
Thank you very much.

ikky36 said:

I just find that the statement "everyone is wrong because everyone is wrong" is a little more accurate. :laughing:

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It's more fun to put those points out there.:tongue:

Besides, there are individuals that actually believe that, namely Universalists, that that will apply to on here anyways.:laughing:

Psilocin said:

There we go!
Thank you very much.

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Sigh, iunno. I see religion as quite 'bullshit' but I'm not willing to close off that possibility either.

Just like how a 7 might appear if you roll a normal 6 sided dice. You never know. Miracles happen. That's why ENFPs are awesome :crazy:

I used to be agnostic as well for similar reasons. Our imaginations and our Ne are so badass as to visualize such an abstract concept in a different way than our SJ guardian friends conception him as concrete. I think that the possibility of having a bunch of people to chill with in an afterlife appeals to our E sensibilities. Fi I think is what totally kills any sort of organized religion for us, as some of the hateful things in holy books make our red flags go off, and it, awesomely enough, goes against our morals. I'd say that the average ENFP has a stronger sense of love, values and morality than any of the religious texts have.

Ming said:

Sigh, iunno. I see religion as quite 'bullshit' but I'm not willing to close off that possibility either.

Just like how a 7 might appear if you roll a normal 6 sided dice. You never know. Miracles happen. That's why ENFPs are awesome :crazy:

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Eh, I disagree. My Fi finds ways of connecting me to the worlds' religions. I mean, it's hard not to when I see the personal values that I've come to on my own reflected so well in a system of beliefs. It's like the same way that I empathize with an individual who's suffering through something that I once suffered through. I mean, some might see it as a complicated act to syncretize opposing belief systems, but it's really no worse than feeling compassion for two different people who both hate each other's guts (notice I said compassion and not love). Again, your ability to do so will come back to your Fi values.

ikky36 said:

Fi I think is what totally kills any sort of organized religion for us, as some of the hateful things in holy books make our red flags go off, and it, awesomely enough, goes against our morals. I'd say that the average ENFP has a stronger sense of love, values and morality than any of the religious texts have.

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Well, at least I still don't have to worry about it haha. I am one of the oddball NFs that don't believe things I can't have proof of. I swear, sometimes I feel like an NT, but then I remember how annoying I am to them and I am firmly rooted as an NF :tongue:

Essay,

My friends and I would call this ESSAY'ism! :happy:

I have "my first name -ism", because I don't believe in any one book, but believe there is something, but I better convert to something and quick, because from what a lot of people have been telling me lately, I'm going to [email protected] ! :crazy:

SirDude

Essay said:

*Gasp* I seem to have my own religion. It's 40% Theravada Buddhist, 15% Cathar/Gnostic, 10% Mayahana Buddhist, 10% Vajrayana Buddhist, 5% Sikh, 5% Presbytarian, 5% Catholic, 5% Sufi Islam, and 5% Nahua Animist. Or something like that.

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Religion... isn't for me. It's been mercilessly stuffed down my throat all my life and I've grown to dislike it intensely. I'm agnostic myself, as I really can't be sure whether there's something out there or not, but I don't feel it interfering with my daily life, so I don't really believe in it. Whatever happens - happens.

I do make a difference between faith and religion, however, and it's only the latter that I hate. Faith to me is something personal that you discover by yourself, and religion is when they tell you what to believe in. I can never be convinced that anyone on this planet is a good and enlightened person enough to have the right to tell me what I should or shouldn't do. Unless, of course, my doings are harmful to him in any way, in which case he could easily use moral and ethics to the same end. Or law.

Just not higher beings, thankyouverymuch.

Hey you should try to look up this religion called Unitarian Universalism. they dont tell you what to think and it has many different religions coming all together. look it up

Essay said:

*Gasp* I seem to have my own religion. It's 40% Theravada Buddhist, 15% Cathar/Gnostic, 10% Mayahana Buddhist, 10% Vajrayana Buddhist, 5% Sikh, 5% Presbytarian, 5% Catholic, 5% Sufi Islam, and 5% Nahua Animist. Or something like that.

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I really don't believe in any religion at all. I consider it to be just another form of philosophy in the end with a mystical route behind it used to make others follow their thoughts and justify themselves. If someone does wish to believe it, I've no issues there at all. As long as they show respect to other people and are good people, I don't care.

On matter of God, I don't know. My logic says no, but I will admit a part of me hopes there is. I realize I can't explain everything, so I'm not 100% against the idea itself, but I find it hard to believe..

I used to believe in God...actually that's a lie, I'm not sure I've ever truly believed, I was brought up to 'believe' (not pressured into it at all! If I didn't to believe then that was fine too, my family never pressured me). When I was 16 I started studying the bible seriously and for a while I was convinced, but at the same time my gut was telling me something different, I had strong doubts I was ignoring and this was making me unhappy. It was also about me trying to find somewhere to 'fit' in, find somewhere I belong.

Learning about the universe is what makes me feel spiritual, learning about the world we live in, the universe, how stars are made and how they die, speculating about how we got here. That's what makes me feel spiritual and it is also what makes me feel connected to the world. To learn through science that we are made up of the same elements that the universe is made up of, that everything is connected makes me feel connected. That when I die I return to the ground from where I came. That's what makes me think "wow! Isn't it amazing to be human? To be alive? To be part of such an amazing universe?"

I don't think of God when I think of those things. If I had to put a label on myself it would be Agnostic, I'm open minded.

I am a christian. I believe that science is concrete evidence that there is a creator. Looking at the intricacies of the universe points to an intelligent creator. I do see why many are atheists and agnostics. The worlds religions are riddled with hypocrisy and confusion. But once the truth is found, there is a comfort that you know WHY things are the way they are. I recognize that many of you would disagree with me but as a believer in God, I do believe in logic and reason.

OK, I am going to play that old "spiritual, not religious" card. I am a scientist. The more I learn, scientifically, the less I believe it can all be some cosmic coincidence (seems like chaos would trump order to the degree that we see it, but that would be a whole new topic).

I think it takes more effort and "make believe" to think that mere humans, with our very limited capabilities, understand even the tip of the iceberg about the universe around us. Trying to explain all of reality based on what we sense/know seems one heck of a narrow minded leap.

I also suspect that our trying to grasp God is like asking an ant to get quantum physics.

However, I do not think that ANY person's God experience is more than the merest fraction of that reality. Thus, how can any one's experience be "the whole truth"? I see religions as human CONSTRUCTS to try to get our limited minds around this whole God idea (or God possibility?), and therefore valuable in a way. I further see that much of humanity has abused the whole religion concept as well, as a tool to force behaviors, control etc...

But we are limited to what we are. I will use what human capabilities I do possess to try to reach beyond what can be known, seeking a connection if you will. What I get from such seeking at any point in time might vary from what I glean at another point in time or what others do. This does not make any one view better or more right. It does make for some fascinating thinking and/or discussions, though.

Keeping on keeping on... (ever journeying),
Z

PS - for what it's worth: I was raised Christian, fairly liberal (Disciples of Christ), but have about abandoned the label in light of what it seems to mean today: judgement, hypocrisy, bigotry, even hatred. I question that some Christians that I have known cannot believe that God is real and present, but have NO trouble believeing any unusual ideas that I might have come from satan (is he easier to believe in than God?). I also am confused by the worship of a human penned text instead of any real spiritual presence. And how convenient to make Jesus into a God so that we can worship him? Gotta wonder where that idolatry line really lies, if you ask me.