Personality Cafe banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,261 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been reading about vulnerable functions in socionics and I have been noticing correlations with between socionics and their "J/P conversion" corresponding type.
For example, I have found some distaste for Fe in INTJs, Fi in ENTPs, Ti in ENFPs and Te in INFJs. Each function being the vulnerable function of the corresponding socionics type.
For the LII, INTj the vulnerable function is Se. If this impression holds up, I would expect that INTPs will have a questionable attitude toward users of the function Se.
The LII hates being ordered what to do, and chafes especially under orders that don't make sense to him. In such cases the LII is likely to criticize the authority — but if he does he is not subtle about it, and usually ends up being marked as a "rebel" and feeling even more frustrated than he did to begin with. An LII works best alone, so that he doesn't have to subordinate (to) others — or constantly negotiate his priorities, which strains his patience and diverts his time and attention away from reworking his understanding; if he is forced to waste time defending what he already knows, he gives up the freedom to deepen his understanding further. He does not tolerate pushiness combined with close-mindedness.
The LII does not like being simply told "get real" or "get off your duff", which he views as crude, intrusive, and insulting. He prefers to be left alone - or better, included in an atmosphere of open discussion that is receptive to his thoughts and thereby inspire him to develop them more.
If the LII has a problem that cannot be solved intellectually, but requires direct personal confrontation, he may resort to total avoidance rather than approaching the person directly, which he tends to think will produce only frustration and contempt. The LII thinks that, in an ideal world, everyone would just listen to reason instead of insisting on having their own way.
Se as described here brings back memories of my probable ESTP father who often acts forcefully in this manner which leads to conflict.
What are your thoughts on Se and how are your relationships with Se users?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,157 Posts
But. But. But. I love INTPs...


@joshman108 it's socionics, LII often is just another way of saying INTP. The letters mean something, but idk what
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,261 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What is LII? And can you explain how that translates to us intps?
Socionics uses slightly different definitions of the functions (some users say it is more adherent to Jung than MBTI's understanding). As a disclaimer I am not a heavy reader into it and people who go on the socionics subforum would know more.
LII stands for Logical, Intutive, Intramin(Introvert). It's also stylized as INTj (where j refers to the dominant function being judging as opposed to MBTI where "J" would refer to the auxiliary function in an introvert/highest extroverted function), it's better understood as LII anyway.
So LII meaning Logical intuitive introvert basically translates to Ti/Ne, (they call thinking "logic" in socionics and feeling they call "ethics" hence the "L" instead of "T").
LII basically stands for Ti/Ne but the model is different. So it's not Ti/Ne/Si/Fe. There are different "blocks" that represent different functions and the type's attitude with those functions rather than going in descending order of function development, as standard MBTI does.
So if you can accept that both INTP and LII are Ti/Ne, they are roughly referring to the same thing. However, some will argue that this is not wholly valid, it's called the J/P switch, (ex: INTP --> INTj). Socionics websites will say that will sometimes be accurate but sometimes it won't. For all intents and purposes INTP and INTJ in MBTI translate to INTx in Socionics which is basically LII or ILI. I personally don't acknowledge this controversy as necessary, I think if the two core functions Ti/Ne are the same between INTP and LII, they are roughly the same, but some will argue that INTP could also translate to ILI which is Ni/Te, but again Ni/Te is INTJ in MBTI, so eh, it doesn't really phase me to say that roughly LII=INTP. Many users will say they relate to ILI more and that's okay because they are different systems so no one will police you into using my rough translation rather than the more uncertain INTP/INTJ-->INTx.
--------
A little more depth is that in socionics the "stacking" or "blocks" in my opinion at least translate to MBTI types as well. One example I use in the first post is "the vulnerable function" in a socionics "stack" the vulnerable function is the fourth function, in the LII that is Se (extroverted sensing), it's pretty much the function that the type is "vulnerable to" or really the one that the user is not adept to using and generally avoids considering it to be vulgar. This is in contrast to MBTI which places Fe as "the fourth function" or "inferior function". In socionics the LII also has "poor development" in the Fe department but unlike Se, doesn't "hate it". The difference is kind of there. The tertiary function in MBTI is also called the "relief function" and in INTPs it's Si, which means when the INTP is feeling stressed or what not they will find "salvation" in Si. In socionics it's kind of the same way, the sixth function in the LII is Si, the sixth listed function is a function that the type typically derives some pleasure from but also possesses difficulty with. So in my opinion, these types are essentially similar enough for me to say they roughly translate. It's important to understand the model though, because in socionics "Ni" is listed as the lowest function, but this doesn't translate to MBTI's inferior function. In socionics Ni (and Te) are things that the type are quite capable of using but see them as somewhat extraneous and unnecessary preferring their two upper functions Ti and Ne.
Maybe that should help you, if you want to look into however, understand what each "block" means instead of assuming it's just descending "development" like MBTI, I assumed that at first and I didn't quite understand the system because of that. Again, I'm certainly not an expert, I don't remember the names each function (Se is vulnerable, it was relevant to the thread but I do not remember the other titles).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
The Se users I've met I absolutely hate. They are evil people. Greedy, unfair, selfish pricks.
They'll invent rules for why they can't help you and why they can be greedy. Then later when that rule applies to them, do they play fair? No, they invent another social rule saying why that rule no longer applies.
Good people get screwed over by them nonstop. But other S, E types don't see anything wrong with it, which is most of society, so they go free like criminals who've committed crimes but get to walk around and keep committing them. Keep screwing over other people for their greed and never getting called out on it, because this is how most of society is and accepts it as normal behavior.

They don't even pretend to be interested in a conversation with an N type - and this is not me personally, it's what other N types have complained about from these Se users, and I just thoight in my head that I've noticed Se users always doing this to people.

I always thought these people were just too dumb to care about others or see things from another person's perspective, but my spouse says that's giving them credit, and that these people are capable but just choose to be selfish and evil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
I also dislike the Te-Si users, also known as ESTJs because they act the same way, but maybe it's what rubbed off from being around those Se users her whole life.
 

·
Registered
ILI
Joined
·
5,652 Posts
Didn't you know those were called PoLR in Socionics?

edit:

If you could please write about what it is about Se that you don't like, I would find that immensely fascinating.

I know why you don't like it theoretically, but I want to hear why straight from the horse's mouth :eek:

That is the dumbest expression.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,168 Posts
My only problem with Se is that Se-doms tend to focus too much on the present moment without much consideration of the future. Specifically, they can often ignore how their actions in the present will affect others in the future. I think that's more an issue of the individual than the function, though. I was very happy in a relationship with an ESTP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
I'm dating an ISFP girl, and putting up with her Fi-Se combination is absolutely DRAINING. I've been with INFPs before, and it wasn't that hard, so it's not much a Fi problem, it's mostly the Se. I've never been so tired in my life.
i know that feel :frustrating:. i had 8 years relationship with an ISFP, it was always SO hard to understand each other. even when i opened my shell to talk her clearly she was kinda... confused (?)
 

·
Registered
LSI 5w4 5-9-4
Joined
·
2,374 Posts
I've never been friends with any ESxP types, but most of my friends in school (not that I ever had many) were ISTPs and their Se never really bothered me too much. But we both had dominant Ti, of course.

I'd have to spend some time around Se dominants in their natural habitat to decide how I feel about it. They can't be as bad as SJs though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,260 Posts
To be honest, I've been more impressed than anything when I've come across an Se user. Sometimes they will act as if their own reality is the only one that matters... yeah I can sympathize with that. Only they tend to inflict their reality on others at times. Still, I get it.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top