[Playful Proxy]

Alright guys, I am doubting my type once again. i do have a better grasp on cognitive functions and who each specifically does, so that helps me out a bit. The problem, is that as an INTP, with Ti as my lead function, should I not get energized by taking in information, studying it, and analyzing it? With a lead function, isn't utilizing it meant to energize you?

I have recently been trying to learn Python, as an example, and personally, I am hating it. I cannot get the IDE to work with 3.2.2 (please don't go nuts over why you believe 2.7 is better), and learning it is irritating. I enjoy having knowledge and using it, but I really, REALLY hate gaining the knowledge (at least forcibly...I do spend many hours randomly scouring the web).

Can you guys give me some specific examples of Ti, how it is explicitly used, and where I should get energized with it if I am truly INTP? In math, once I GET a concept to the point where I understand it and can play with it, toy with it, and tweak it, I like math..but the initial mode of figuring out what I am doing...it drives me nuts. Also, there is the entire problem of Ti's superfocus...there are very few things I can VERY contently focus on for a long period of time. Video games remains as one of the only ones. Not even computers (which I like), can I do for extended periods without getting bored of a specific subject whether it ranges from CCNA to Python, to C++.

I think I at least have Ne...but my Ne seems underdeveloped as it gives ideas, it is random and jumpy, but it is not overflowing, so I have ruled out ENTP (aside from my very obvious lack of extroversion). I cannot say I am INTJ because I do not possess Te...often times, I have a hard time explaining my thoughts to others, especially complex ones.

 

[Sleeve Of Wizard]

I've read of INTJs claiming to have difficulty explaining their ideas purely because of how Ni doesn't always translate easily into Te. However, I can relate to what you're saying, I mean, I'm sure every INTP and most other types share a resentment for "forced" learning (even self-forced). Whenever I find myself in that situation, it does drain me a little to push through it. Usually, when the boredom kicks in, I high tail it out of there and hop to something more interesting.

EDIT: I tried learning C++ and gave up.

 

[qingdom]

I'm curious... since you're an INTP... if and when you can come up with or come across a manual, an outline, a set of routines, or a flowchart of what one must do to become an ENTJ, please kindly share your findings.

converting from INTP to ESFJ is a near impossibility unless the INTP whacks their head and get amnesia... an ENFJ or an ESTJ, maybe... but even ENTJ is pushing the boundaries of 'comfort zones' and set limits; e.g. principles, morals, ethics. and then some.

Much thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

 

[Playful Proxy]

I've read of INTJs claiming to have difficulty explaining their ideas purely because of how Ni doesn't always translate easily into Te. However, I can relate to what you're saying, I mean, I'm sure every INTP and most other types share a resentment for "forced" learning (even self-forced). Whenever I find myself in that situation, it does drain me a little to push through it. Usually, when the boredom kicks in, I high tail it out of there and hop to something more interesting.

EDIT: I tried learning C++ and gave up.

Really? I heard Te was very concise in its explanations and the thought processes presented were very specific. At least, that is how I view my friend's explanations (he is INTJ...for sure). He is far more structured than me and makes far better grades, is more organized, and takes higher level classes than me (primarily out of my own laziness). He gets on to me for being lazy at work (we arn't doing anything half the time because we are FREE interns anyway).

And I know what you mean with C++. If only I had gotten farther, I got far enough to make a simple calculator with 4 functions too. :/ The problem I am having is that Ti is supposed to be good at this kind of thing. It is supposed to obsess and make me master it. Why is Ne taking the wheel and distracting me constantly? If I can just get through it and learn it, I LOVE using the knowledge, playing with it, and editing it to make things. I remember when I was 12 and started Scratch (a game making program). I got really good. To this day, I STILL get ideas on really complex things I could make in it and how (half the time, my theory on how it would work would fail and i could not get it to work, but still...the thoughts energize me).

I'm curious... since you're an INTP... if and when you can come up with or come across a manual, an outline, a set of routines, or a flowchart of what one must do to become an ENTJ, please kindly share your findings.

converting from INTP to ESFJ is a near impossibility unless the INTP whacks their head and get amnesia... an ENFJ or an ESTJ, maybe... but even ENTJ is pushing the boundaries of 'comfort zones' and set limits; e.g. principles, morals, ethics. and then some.

Much thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

Where did that come from?

 

[BUtheBabyUnicorn]

You're a global learner, as am I.
You don't "get" something for the first class or so, maybe, such as a new concept in Math or whatever, but then, suddenly, you get it, right? It seemed like, from your description of learning something new, that you are a global learner.
At least, that's what happens to me... the global learning thing.
Anyway, it seems to be that most Ne users are like this. I have an ENFP sister and an XNXP father who are like that.
But my ESTJ sister can't learn like that at all. My dad has to sit her down and teach a concept to her linearly. She doesn't get that, "Aha!" moment when it all makes sense.

I'm sorry that this post isn't about Ti, but I thought I would just throw that in.

 

[JollyBard]

Laziness is independant of your functions. You might just have ADHD.

 

[qingdom]

Where did that come from?

Sorry. was random. Your thread title made me tangent towards 'If not Ti, then _____' and from there 'what if?' hence the post.

 

[Playful Proxy]

You're a global learner, as am I.
You don't "get" something for the first class or so, maybe, such as a new concept in Math or whatever, but then, suddenly, you get it, right? It seemed like, from your description of learning something new, that you are a global learner.
At least, that's what happens to me... the global learning thing.
Anyway, it seems to be that most Ne users are like this. I have an ENFP sister and an XNXP father who are like that.
But my ESTJ sister can't learn like that at all. My dad has to sit her down and teach a concept to her linearly. She doesn't get that, "Aha!" moment when it all makes sense.

I'm sorry that this post isn't about Ti, but I thought I would just throw that in.

I often do get the concept the first time, but in math, we are just learning linear stuff without much thought at the moment (stupid trig..). I just memorize the formula and plug in the variables. My problem with math is that my Algebra II teacher was terrible so in higher level math, I am having to go back and build up my algebra foundation that was oh, so weak (I just recently learned that (cosx*sinx)/tanx = cox/tanx *cosx).

It just bothers me that Ti is supposed to be so powerful, so focused and obsessed and while i CAN get obsessed and do things for long periods of time (thus ruling out ADD and ADHD), those activities are generally not all that cerebral (leading me to believe I may not even be a thinking dominant).

Sorry. was random. Your thread title made me tangent towards 'If not Ti, then _____' and from there 'what if?' hence the post.

I have ruled out that there is no way I am ENTP, or INTJ. I really doubt I am a Sensor at all, but my iNtuitive functions can be weak occasionally. I don't enjoy sports all that much but often do them just to stay in some kind of shape (I do swimming and running). I would look silly playing any sports which involve a ball.

 

[Sleeve Of Wizard]

Really? I heard Te was very concise in its explanations and the thought processes presented were very specific. At least, that is how I view my friend's explanations (he is INTJ...for sure). He is far more structured than me and makes far better grades, is more organized, and takes higher level classes than me (primarily out of my own laziness). He gets on to me for being lazy at work (we arn't doing anything half the time because we are FREE interns anyway).

And I know what you mean with C++. If only I had gotten farther, I got far enough to make a simple calculator with 4 functions too. :/ The problem I am having is that Ti is supposed to be good at this kind of thing. It is supposed to obsess and make me master it. Why is Ne taking the wheel and distracting me constantly? If I can just get through it and learn it, I LOVE using the knowledge, playing with it, and editing it to make things. I remember when I was 12 and started Scratch (a game making program). I got really good. To this day, I STILL get ideas on really complex things I could make in it and how (half the time, my theory on how it would work would fail and i could not get it to work, but still...the thoughts energize me).

Funnily enough, I also got to pretty much that exact point with C++. I think if I'd got past the decent calculator stage I might have had enough feedback on my skills to gather the motivation to continue.

Hmmm...INTJs are known for being precise and structured when explaining things, but I've definitely read about some having Ni concepts that don't quite express themselves properly with Te. I don't think you're an INTJ if you want my honest opinion. Having said that, I don't know you and have very limited information here soo...meh.

*rereads your first post*

Well, both INTPs and INTJs scour the web but I'd say INTPs do it in a slightly more random, jumpy way. How exactly do you learn when you're intensely interested in something and feel no obligation to learn it? Btw, about ruling out ENTP and INTJ, does this doubt fluctuate a lot on a semi regular basis?

 

[Playful Proxy]

Funnily enough, I also got to pretty much that exact point with C++. I think if I'd got past the decent calculator stage I might have had enough feedback on my skills to gather the motivation to continue.

Hmmm...INTJs are known for being precise and structured when explaining things, but I've definitely read about some having Ni concepts that don't quite express themselves properly with Te. I don't think you're an INTJ if you want my honest opinion. Having said that, I don't know you and have very limited information here soo...meh.

*rereads your first post*

Haha, hey, we could try to get back into it at a later date. You know learning it would be beneficial.

Well, both INTPs and INTJs scour the web but I'd say INTPs do it in a slightly more random, jumpy way. How exactly do you learn when you're intensely interested in something and feel no obligation to learn it? Btw, about ruling out ENTP and INTJ, does this doubt fluctuate a lot on a semi regular basis?

My web browsing tendencies are actually more traditional. I go to the same sites, look up the same information, but if a subject that interests me (if new), I will be scouring for information over it. I really don't know enough web databases (don't you dare say Google), to randomly gain information from, so I Google when I hear something new from any of my usual sources. And intpforum.org and here offer a bit.

As for doubt, I doubt my type somewhat often. The areas in question are usually different. The first time I got results, I thought I may have been ENTP, and after seeing how extroverted ENTP's actually are and how outrageously powerful their Ne is..I ruled that out. INTJ...yeah, I can compare to my friend and we are very...different. Later I began questioning if I was an iNtuitor or Sensor and I plan far too ahead to say I am 'in the moment'. I also fail at seeing detail in my general area no matter what is on my mind so that rules out sensing (I am known to be terrible at looking for things even if it is right in front of me).

Also, speaking of Te: Where are my INTJs? You guys, get in here, give me an objective opinion and explain it. You are quite good at that. My friend couldn't give a rip about MBTI so I can't use him.

 

[BUtheBabyUnicorn]

I often do get the concept the first time, but in math, we are just learning linear stuff without much thought at the moment (stupid trig..). I just memorize the formula and plug in the variables. My problem with math is that my Algebra II teacher was terrible so in higher level math, I am having to go back and build up my algebra foundation that was oh, so weak (I just recently learned that (cosx*sinx)/tanx = cox/tanx *cosx).

It just bothers me that Ti is supposed to be so powerful, so focused and obsessed and while i CAN get obsessed and do things for long periods of time (thus ruling out ADD and ADHD), those activities are generally not all that cerebral (leading me to believe I may not even be a thinking dominant).

I feel that either I'm more weak in my T (I often test as the INTP variant PINT, with T usually being around.... 70%, while my other scores are more like 80%), or they're leaving something out of the INTP profile. I don't think that INTPs are really that cold and calculating all the time, and who's to say that they are? Maybe everyone's just lying about how cold they are... but who knows?
And UGH, I hate trig right now. There's nothing to it. At least with Algebra I, I had to think a little bit. Geometry is more like plugging things into equations with little thought required, and tons of room for careless errors. Or maybe it's just Ti logic that makes it seem like there's little thought required.
And we're not going very far into trig this year, because it's actually Geometry Honors with a little dabble into trig, but I find it kind of boring... plus we have TI-84s, so we don't even have to do any work to get the sin, cos, etc. We're basically just plugging numbers into calculators right now. It's quite boring. I wish I had been able to skip a year of elementary school math, which I actually wasn't able to because they were asking questions about rhombuses, and I had no clue what a rhombus (and several other geometrical shapes and terms) was because you can't just figure it out from the context...

Although, I do think that I have Ti, because I seem to be able to figure things out (logically) much faster than my classmates, at least the loud ones, anyway, haha.

 

[Epherion]

@Signify, @Sleeve Of Wizard. I am disappoint, C++ is still the ultimate in proglang. You are right to take a break, but you need to get back to it. What exactly is the problem you have with it? Why exactly do you want to learn it?

 

[Playful Proxy]

@Signify , @Sleeve Of Wizard . I am disappoint, C++ is still the ultimate in proglang. You are right to take a break, but you need to get back to it. What exactly is the problem you have with it? Why exactly do you want to learn it?

I want to learn C++ because of its lack of dependencies and its raw power in terms of what it can do as a lower level language compared to a high level one (such as Python (which I am also learning)). C++ allows you to inject programs into memory, and THEN run them. I want something with a little power under my belt. Sadly, if I want to have any fun with it, I would then have to figure out OpenGL soon after..

But my question is this: Is there a sure-fire way I can judge if I am a Ti dominant, objectively?

 

[Epherion]

I want to learn C++ because of its lack of dependencies and its raw power in terms of what it can do as a lower level language compared to a high level one (such as Python (which I am also learning)). C++ allows you to inject programs into memory, and THEN run them. I want something with a little power under my belt. Sadly, if I want to have any fun with it, I would then have to figure out OpenGL soon after..

Dont forget DirectX. If you will be doing game programming DX is essential. Is there a particular block you are having with the language?

But my question is this: Is there a sure-fire way I can judge if I am a Ti dominant, objectively?

Got me.

 

[Playful Proxy]

Dont forget DirectX. If you will be doing game programming DX is essential. Is there a particular block you are having with the language?

Where I left off, I had a decent grasp on functions and basic syntax. The oddities of assigning variables to specific memory locations and limitations that if assigned within function bob(); they could only be read from and written to within that functions was a little hazy to me. I suppose unless there is a step I don't know about is actually figuring out how the heck to use the runtime libraries to actually do things. You can only take so many responses from a user and give back only text so often before you want the program to DO something.

I was reading Rescued by C++ Third Edition. It is a bit old with a copyright of 1997, but meh, it seemed to still work in MS Visual Studio C++ 2010 aside from the stupid std namespace thing.

 

[Epherion]

Where I left off, I had a decent grasp on functions and basic syntax. The oddities of assigning variables to specific memory locations and limitations that if assigned within function bob(); they could only be read from and written to within that functions was a little hazy to me. I suppose unless there is a step I don't know about is actually figuring out how the heck to use the runtime libraries to actually do things. You can only take so many responses from a user and give back only text so often before you want the program to DO something.

I was reading Rescued by C++ Third Edition. It is a bit old with a copyright of 1997, but meh, it seemed to still work in MS Visual Studio C++ 2010 aside from the stupid std namespace thing.

I see. I dont know what to tell you short of practice, get more data and request assistance from your professors. You are doing fine IMO. Sevcheko, qjshanly can also help you. Have you done any OOP?

 

[Playful Proxy]

I see. I dont know what to tell you short of practice, get more data and request assistance from your professors. You are doing fine IMO. Sevcheko, qjshanly can also help you. Have you done any OOP?

Sadly, I don't have any professors at the moment (about to graduate high school), most of mine was self-learned. And seeing as how I don't know what OOP is...I guess not. But yes, I will go bother him once I get a decent grip on Python (faster to learn, and I need something to toy with....now!)

 

[Epherion]

Sadly, I don't have any professors at the moment (about to graduate high school), most of mine was self-learned. And seeing as how I don't know what OOP is...I guess not. But yes, I will go bother him once I get a decent grip on Python (faster to learn, and I need something to toy with....now!)

OOP= Object Oriented Programming.

Your genitals.

 

[Eleventeenth]

Ti is capable of devouring whatever you place in front of it, however, I do 100 times better if I have a natural motivation for whatever I'm learning (i.e., stuff that I do on my own spare time, stuff that I love and enjoy and has nothing to do with "completing a task"). It's almost like I don't want to be bothered with stuff that I'm not feeling motivated about at that moment.

1. Things that I want to learn on my own and there's no "deadline" = Ti loves it.
2. Things that I want to learn on my own and there's a deadline = Ti likes it, but is aggravated/feels pressured by the timeline/rules/parameters.
3. Things that I don't want to learn on my own and there's no deadline/requirement = Ti won't touch it.
4. Things that I don't want to learn on my own and there is a deadline/requirement = can be very challenging, requires some discipline. You basically just have to dive in and go for it. It feels more like Si than Ti because it feels like you're having to sludge through details that Ti isn't really interested in.

 

[Playful Proxy]

Ti is capable of devouring whatever you place in front of it, however, I do 100 times better if I have a natural motivation for whatever I'm learning (i.e., stuff that I do on my own spare time, stuff that I love and enjoy and has nothing to do with "completing a task"). It's almost like I don't want to be bothered with stuff that I'm not feeling motivated about at that moment.

1. Things that I want to learn on my own and there's no "deadline" = Ti loves it.
2. Things that I want to learn on my own and there's a deadline = Ti likes it, but is aggravated/feels pressured by the timeline/rules/parameters.
3. Things that I don't want to learn on my own and there's no deadline/requirement = Ti won't touch it.
4. Things that I don't want to learn on my own and there is a deadline/requirement = can be very challenging, requires some discipline. You basically just have to dive in and go for it. It feels more like Si than Ti because it feels like you're having to sludge through details that Ti isn't really interested in.

I really don't know if ti is a mix of "I want to learn" and "I don't want to learn" simply because while i WANT to learn it, I hate actually learning it. I would rather just take a computer chip, upload the information I want to my brain, and let Ti process it and I can go wild with the new info.