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I believe that NF's and NT's have about the same amount of future orientedness. However, the SJ's and SP's tend to tell time a little bit differently from one another. The SJ's are pretty here and now oriented, but more like what's going on in the next couple of months, maybe a year or so. However, the SP's are literally HERE AND NOW. They seem to be preoccupied with what's going on at this very moment in time, maybe a week from now. They don't seem to be very future oriented at all. Confirm or deny my statement.
 

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Based on my observations of others and a great deal of reflection on the cognitive processes:

NJ time frame: present to future (integrate info from the present that relates to a vision/objective for the future)

SJ time frame: past to present (integrate info from the past in order to continue prior state/objective in the present)

SP time frame: present (integrate information relevant to the present)

NP time frame: divorced from time (integrate information from past, present, and future simultaneously)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Based on my observations of others and a great deal of reflection on the cognitive processes:

NJ time frame: present to future (integrate info from the present that relates to a vision/objective for the future)

SJ time frame: past to present (integrate info from the past in order to continue prior state/objective in the present)

SP time frame: present (integrate information relevant to the present)

NP time frame: divorced from time (integrate information from past, present, and future simultaneously)
This intrigues me. I love this post.
 

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I am an INFJ and I think about the future a lot. I probably think of it more than the present.( I usually think of the far off future wwhen I am planning big things out and the close future for planning small things out.
 

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Based on my observations of others and a great deal of reflection on the cognitive processes:

NJ time frame: present to future (integrate info from the present that relates to a vision/objective for the future)

SJ time frame: past to present (integrate info from the past in order to continue prior state/objective in the present)

SP time frame: present (integrate information relevant to the present)

NP time frame: divorced from time (integrate information from past, present, and future simultaneously)

I can see that, I don't often put thought into time. Time is just there, everything just kind of flows.
 

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As an NT, I am not bound by the laws of space and time. I do what I want, when I want. :laughing:

I don't wear a watch and don't rightly care what time it is. To be so limited by something like a concept of time is, IMO, silly. I quite transcend them and consider watches/clocks/etc. for the benefit of others since they seemingly have things that need to be done by a certain arbitrary marker. I accommodate them as I am able, but left to my own devices, I sleep when/if I'm sleepy and work when inspired.
 

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Based on my observations of others and a great deal of reflection on the cognitive processes:

NJ time frame: present to future (integrate info from the present that relates to a vision/objective for the future)

SJ time frame: past to present (integrate info from the past in order to continue prior state/objective in the present)

SP time frame: present (integrate information relevant to the present)

NP time frame: divorced from time (integrate information from past, present, and future simultaneously)
Yeah, it has to do with our dominant perceiving function:
Si - past oriented
Se- present oriented
Ni- future oriented
Ne- all over the place
 

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SP time frame: present (integrate information relevant to the present)
This is very true.

The most obvious example of this is when I get angry, and then a few hours pass, and I'm not angry anymore. It's in the past. It's like the emotion never existed. What's hard about this is that in my state of anger I feel motivated to either confront or resolve the issue, but if I wait, I run the risk of losing the anger, losing the motivation, and changing my mind in the meantime. If something that really needs to be addressed, I need to force myself to follow through.
 

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This is very true.

The most obvious example of this is when I get angry, and then a few hours pass, and I'm not angry anymore. It's in the past. It's like the emotion never existed. What's hard about this is that in my state of anger I feel motivated to either confront or resolve the issue, but if I wait, I run the risk of losing the anger, losing the motivation, and changing my mind in the meantime. If something that really needs to be addressed, I need to force myself to follow through.

haha me too!! I'll get mad at people for something, but then I don't even remember why I was mad if I just wait a couple hours. It's actually kind of frustrating because I know I should've yelled at them, but I can't remember why, and by the time I DO remember why, I'm not angry anymore, I just have a headache. Oy.:confused:

No, for me, it's definately the present. My roommates always get pissed at me because I can't make a plan to save my life. They'll want me to start planning our roadtrip 2 months before we're supposed to go, and I never manage to follow through. I have the best intentions, I just can't focus on that far ahead. (This is why you don't have SP's plan stuff. Like parties. I hate planning parties.)
 

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Yeah, it has to do with our dominant perceiving function:
Si - past oriented
Se- present oriented
Ni- future oriented
Ne- all over the place
Has anyone ever really considered and researched where these notions come from? I have read through Jung's work and he never references to Si being past oriented and Ni being future oriented. He only says that both functions use images and impressions, not giving a time line. However both Ne and Se are present-oriented as are all extraverting types because you must be present oriented to deal with an object. Once we get past considering the possibilities, reading threads of meaning, etc we're no longer using Ne, but another function because we are no longer engaged with the object in the present. Ne will consider future possibilities, but there is no time line connected. The fact that Se will actually act on the possibilities is what makes it appear more present oriented. But these terms are relative if one considers a possibility to actually take three weeks from now, and the other four weeks from now. I know that Berens and Nardi makes the claim of past and present, but I have yet to determine where that may have originated.
 

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Has anyone ever really considered and researched where these notions come from? I have read through Jung's work and he never references to Si being past oriented and Ni being future oriented. He only says that both functions use images and impressions, not giving a time line. However both Ne and Se are present-oriented as are all extraverting types because you must be present oriented to deal with an object. Once we get past considering the possibilities, reading threads of meaning, etc we're no longer using Ne, but another function because we are no longer engaged with the object in the present.

I know that Berens and Nardi makes the claim of past and present, but I have yet to determine where that may have originated.
These were my observations based on function descriptions and personal experiences. Si is always about comparing the present to past experiences. Ni-- I don't have it, but the descriptions make it sound like it is future-oriented. (almost like a psychic ability). Ne is present oriented only in the sense that it is dealing with information being presented in the present moment. If the present moment is reading a history book, Ne might start looking for patterns in the past. Likewise it may look for patterns in future-oriented data.
 

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Has anyone ever really considered and researched where these notions come from? I have read through Jung's work and he never references to Si being past oriented and Ni being future oriented. He only says that both functions use images and impressions, not giving a time line. However both Ne and Se are present-oriented as are all extraverting types because you must be present oriented to deal with an object. Once we get past considering the possibilities, reading threads of meaning, etc we're no longer using Ne, but another function because we are no longer engaged with the object in the present. Ne will consider future possibilities, but there is no time line connected. The fact that Se will actually act on the possibilities is what makes it appear more present oriented. But these terms are relative if one considers a possibility to actually take three weeks from now, and the other four weeks from now. I know that Berens and Nardi makes the claim of past and present, but I have yet to determine where that may have originated.
For the record, my original post about SP, SJ, NP, and NJ time orientation was not based on Jung. I derived it peripherally from something I read about the cognitive processes (although I have theoretical objections to them now) and from something on 'time and SJs' from another great researcher.

These were my observations based on function descriptions and personal experiences. Si is always about comparing the present to past experiences. Ni-- I don't have it, but the descriptions make it sound like it is future-oriented. (almost like a psychic ability). Ne is present oriented only in the sense that it is dealing with information being presented in the present moment. If the present moment is reading a history book, Ne might start looking for patterns in the past. Likewise it may look for patterns in future-oriented data.
Yeah, I no longer think it's accurate to break down type into cognitive processes but I will say that my time orientation realization came from studying a notecard I wrote that had the following on it:

notes said:
for Si users, energy comes from staying with the recalled image (SJ)
for Se users, energy comes from following new sensory stimulation (SP)
for Ni users, energy comes from staying with the vision (NJ)
for Ne users, energy comes from following emergent possibility (NP)
So, I was staring at this notecard one evening this summer, and I had this moment of clarity where I realized the following:

A person who directs energy toward 'staying with the recalled image' is going to have a time orientation where lines of information converge in the present moment. So, if you think of it in terms of a Cartesian plot, energy comes from extending the same function into the present coordinate.

A person whose energy comes from following sensory stimulation doesn't have a function to follow. That person is a dot on the plot because they are contained within the present moment.

A person who directs energy toward 'staying with a vision' is going be energized by taking in information in the present moment that converges at a specific coordinate that occurs in the future. Energy comes from registering the current point (Xo, Yo), quickly determining what function will lead you to destination (Xf, Yf) and most importantly, sticking with that function.

And finally, a person whose energy comes from 'following emergent possibilities' is not going to be anchored on either side, somewhat like an SP. Unlike an SP (who absorbs info from within the kernel that represents the present), however, the NP will be absorbing and integrating information from past, present, and future. Any piece of information is relevant regardless of where it occurs in time because energy comes from absorbing the 'whole context' and inferring. That's what I mean, when I say 'divorced from time.'

The question that all of this information answers is "how do NJs, NPs, SPs, and SJs determine what is 'relevant' to their world?"

I'll think about how to elaborate on this, particularly NPs and time.

This is very true.

The most obvious example of this is when I get angry, and then a few hours pass, and I'm not angry anymore. It's in the past. It's like the emotion never existed. What's hard about this is that in my state of anger I feel motivated to either confront or resolve the issue, but if I wait, I run the risk of losing the anger, losing the motivation, and changing my mind in the meantime. If something that really needs to be addressed, I need to force myself to follow through.
This may indeed be related to SPs and time orientation. I know an ESTP who hates the news feed on Facebook because she thinks it's annoying to get information about people that aren't in her daily life. I have no such problem. Even though many of the people aren't in my daily life anymore, they are still relevant to me and passively inform my world view because they're part of the global context that I'm focused on. It's difficult to describe. (Sidenote: this is not just because I'm NP; it's partially because I direct my energy outwardly.)
 

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This may indeed be related to SPs and time orientation. I know an ESTP who hates the news feed on Facebook because she thinks it's annoying to get information about people that aren't in her daily life. I have no such problem. Even though many of the people aren't in my daily life anymore, they are still relevant to me and passively inform my world view because they're part of the global context that I'm focused on. It's difficult to describe. (Sidenote: this is not just because I'm NP; it's partially because I direct my energy outwardly.)
Interesting...I hate the Facebook news feed, but I never could put my finger on why. I remember I liked the old one, before they screwed it all up. It used to be so much more organized. And they keep screwing it up. :dry:

I usually just skim through the flood of mediocre posts or block the people who annoy me, and only read the posts of the people I'm most interested in, and whom I probably see the most anyway. Which therefore defeats the purpose, a little bit.

And I'll become friends with some vague acquaintance, half-heartedly glance at their page, and never interact with them again. It would be interesting to see how the types use Facebook.

But, I'm railroading this thread. Apologies. Carry on.
 

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Interesting...I hate the Facebook news feed, but I never could put my finger on why. I remember I liked the old one, before they screwed it all up. It used to be so much more organized. And they keep screwing it up. :dry:

I usually just skim through the flood of mediocre posts or block the people who annoy me, and only read the posts of the people I'm most interested in, and whom I probably see the most anyway. Which therefore defeats the purpose, a little bit.

And I'll become friends with some vague acquaintance, half-heartedly glance at their page, and never interact with them again. It would be interesting to see how the types use Facebook.

But, I'm railroading this thread. Apologies. Carry on.
Well what annoys me about the Facebook feed is all the game posts. I want to see what is on peoples minds (Ne taking in new info I suppose), however most status updates are quite boring "Had a great time at the park" GAH!!!
 

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These were my observations based on function descriptions and personal experiences. Si is always about comparing the present to past experiences. Ni-- I don't have it, but the descriptions make it sound like it is future-oriented. (almost like a psychic ability). Ne is present oriented only in the sense that it is dealing with information being presented in the present moment. If the present moment is reading a history book, Ne might start looking for patterns in the past. Likewise it may look for patterns in future-oriented data.
That is what I have been led to believe as well, however when you read the original description of Si, it never refers to being past-oriented and Ni does not refer to being future-oriented. In fact this is what Jung says about Si:
Introverted sensation conveys an image whose effect is not so much to reproduce the object as to throw over it a wrapping whose lustre is derived from age-old subjective experience and the still unborn future event.
This seems to indicate that Si creates images and impressions of what they know from the past and what they anticipate for the future. I did not see the word future or past used for Ni, but the word vision continues to crop up when describing the function. Again I was just curious as to whether anyone ever stopped to ask, how we came to perceive that one referred to past images and impressions and the other future images and impressions.
For the record, my original post about SP, SJ, NP, and NJ time orientation was not based on Jung. I derived it peripherally from something I read about the cognitive processes (although I have theoretical objections to them now) and from something on 'time and SJs' from another great researcher.
Okay, but two thoughts come to mind. If the word cognitive process is used, no matter who the author they derived their information from Jung who originated the terms. The author(s) may not be completely depending on Jung's work, but you can bet there was a bit of cannibalizing of his ed some of his language and theory.

Also when we refer to any two-letter codes, SJ, NT, SP, NF etc., we’re no longer speaking of type, instead temperament or the common values of four types relating to the two letters being used. When we refer to three-letter codes such as STP, SFJ, ETP, INJ etc., we are now referring to two types matching the common letters. So cognitive processes cannot come into play since these are very general commonalities similar to temperament.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Has anyone ever really considered and researched where these notions come from? I have read through Jung's work and he never references to Si being past oriented and Ni being future oriented. He only says that both functions use images and impressions, not giving a time line. However both Ne and Se are present-oriented as are all extraverting types because you must be present oriented to deal with an object. Once we get past considering the possibilities, reading threads of meaning, etc we're no longer using Ne, but another function because we are no longer engaged with the object in the present. Ne will consider future possibilities, but there is no time line connected. The fact that Se will actually act on the possibilities is what makes it appear more present oriented. But these terms are relative if one considers a possibility to actually take three weeks from now, and the other four weeks from now. I know that Berens and Nardi makes the claim of past and present, but I have yet to determine where that may have originated.
I disagree, most of the intuitive types are very future oriented from what I've seen. I've also noticed that most Se users time is the present. Usually it's a completely different time frame for the users from what I've seen.
 
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