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Discussion Starter #1
What are your key motivations?

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.

I would appreciate as much information as possible.

Thanks in advance.
 

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key motivations for what?
Likewise, I would like to get a more definitive question to answer the above query.

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.
According to a friend, a 5w4 develops his/her introverted functions (Ni and Fi) primarily (as the experience and abundance of Ni-Fi loops seems personally relatable to myself), then focuses on the extroverted functions (Te and Se) second. If you chose to disregard the latter, another perspective that this could be attributed to into another system - Turbulent vs Assertive.

In a discussion we had previously on this forum (linked below), the Ni-Se dynamic seems more pronounced in Turbulents, while the Te-Fi is more pronounced in Assertives. Unfortunately, without further clarification on the above query, I am rather at a loss to write anything meaningful without bringing up basic terminology.

As for finding a universal truth, I believe that is closely attributed to NT types in general, rather to one respective type.

 

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What are your key motivations?
-To understand (see deeply/accurately/things 'unseen')
-To advance/grow/progress
-To satisfy my SX/sp instincts
-To live 'beautifully'

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at
Usually on the task at hand but I like to let my mind wander, time allowing, and let my Ni show me what it wants to focus on. Ni recalls things to my conscious mind that my subconscious thinks I should take a second look at or show me connections/patterns 'I' hadn't thought of. I have a few complex questions I want Ni to 'solve' and focusing on one can feel like taking a toy out of a toy box and playing with it. This is what I'm usually doing when I look like I'm daydreaming.

and how does Te fits into being a 5w4.
I'm grateful to have a balance for Ni, especially one that keeps me grounded to 'does this work?' reality.

Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.
Universal. 'Authenticity' is a value of mine. So is 'order'. I believe in singular objective truth for the most part. I feel so strongly about this that one of my 'test questions' (when meeting new people) is whether all truth is subjective.
 

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Plague Doctor
INTJ, 5w4, Ni-T type
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What are your key motivations?
Could you elaborate? I think without elaboration, I won't be able to answer more conclusively. Mostly to discover the truth and to find meaning.

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.
Universal truth is more important to me at this stage in my life. In my teens and 20s, my own truth was important to me. Ni is the first filter any sort of information comes through. It's so natural, that it would be like me asking you how your "focus" your Ti. I guess, for me, I seem to be more interested in symbols, myths, and legends (or things that are commonly associated with the collective unconscious) to find meaning in humanity. I also look for patterns and clues to find reason behind people's actions. People really fascinate me.

I would appreciate as much information as possible.

Thanks in advance.
If you could give some direction, I'd be able to help you out better. When you say "as much information as possible", my instinct is to say, "about what?"

If you come back and clarify, I'll go into more detail. : )
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
key motivations for what?
It was a broad question to let you decide in which field (anything you want: psychology, reading poems, playing chess...) you find yourself more stimulated and motivated to do or to learn about.

Sorry if my question wans't clear enough but I don't live in an English speaking country.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
If you could give some direction, I'd be able to help you out better. When you say "as much information as possible", my instinct is to say, "about what?"

If you come back and clarify, I'll go into more detail. : )
I left all pretty open because my idea was that you guys would choose by yourselves what specifically to talk about instead of me choosing any topic, because maybe I wouldn't get into the key parts. However it seems that I didn't give enough information because I didn't define what to answer. I will try to be more specific.

Firstly, my idea is to know how this rationalism-pragmatism of INTJs joins together with that need of authenticity of the 4 wing, because I feel like sometimes trying to be unique and different it's extremely far from pragmatism and out-world results (Does this make you inner conflict?).

Also, I would like to know important is art (poetry, music, writing, etc.) for you and if that relieves you from your rational side or you somehow still analyze art rationally. Probably you may use art as a tool to understand the human condition.

Thanks.
 

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Key motivations? Becoming the ubermensch, of course! :popcorn:
 
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Plague Doctor
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I left all pretty open because my idea was that you guys would choose by yourselves what specifically to talk about instead of me choosing any topic, because maybe I wouldn't get into the key parts. However it seems that I didn't give enough information because I didn't define what to answer. I will try to be more specific.

Firstly, my idea is to know how this rationalism-pragmatism of INTJs joins together with that need of authenticity of the 4 wing, because I feel like sometimes trying to be unique and different it's extremely far from pragmatism and out-world results (Does this make you inner conflict?).

Also, I would like to know important is art (poetry, music, writing, etc.) for you and if that relieves you from your rational side or you somehow still analyze art rationally. Probably you may use art as a tool to understand the human condition.

Thanks.
Speaking for myself, I need direction because I don't want to waste my time lol (that whole conserving of resources). For me, personally, my Te and Fi feel very close together with my Te only being slightly more dominant. It's my understanding that the Enneagram is a looser theory, revolving around spiritual matters, development, and certain struggles the psyche goes through as a child.

When I was young, my (unhealthy) mother was constantly pointing out to me how I wasn't "normal" like the other girls, as if there was something wrong with me because I was different. I think INTJ females discover pretty early in life that they have more in common with males than other females simply because of interests (though I obviously can't speak for them; but I had great difficulty ever fitting in among other girls). I saw my INTJ-ness as a sort of "flaw" standing in the way of my mother's love and peer acceptance. However, I couldn't divorce myself from my natural preferences, obviously.

My Ni is, by far, my most developed function and this manifested in wanting to know "all the things", or, at least to gather as much information as I could about everything I wanted to know about so that I could make sense of a world which, to me, was senseless. My mother didn't provide a very stable foundation, obviously, and I always felt that the understanding others had was something that I lacked. What I didn't realize is that I had a need to go much deeper than others. It wasn't enough just to come up with one or two explanations: I need to find the truest and most meaningful explanation to really feel satiated.

My father, on the other hand, was an incredibly solid parent. He was a scientist who encouraged critical, objective thinking, praised me, and truly loved me for who I was. Once the "system" got involved, I was removed from my mother's partial custody and put in full custody of my father - so, I'm sure you can imagine, there's quite a bit of things I'm not saying. Essentially, it was rough with her and, on top of that, in my teens I went through a series of deaths (my best friend, another close friend from the neighborhood, and then my stepbrother). So, those are the contributing factors from my personal life which affected my wing the most (in my opinion).

Also, going back to the Te/Fi, again, I think I'm pretty high in Fi, but definitely not enough to question my (MBTI) type.

I am both a composer of music and a writer. I find creative pursuit very rewarding. I don't see it as a relief from my Te, though. I think it's fun, I like the creative challenge, and I humor myself that I have something to say which is worth sharing with the world. I enjoy the arts, too, but I don't consider myself much of an artist so much.

It's much easier to talk about my Te type behavior though. One thing that INTJs really value is truth and integrity. I've seen this in myself as well as others on this forum. I've seen it enough in the real world, too, to make the generalization. If authenticity is a key word associated with the 4 wing, then I don't see how INTJs would have much problem connecting to that.

I find that I seem to live in this sort of bubble where I'm always in my head, reading, studying, doing things which I think are important and learning things which I (hope) can apply to the outside world for positive change. Once I've collected "all the things", then I can go to the next step and pick/chose the best ideas or best solutions and get to work (as enneagram enthusiast may put it, moving toward 8) to bring those changes to fruition. Bringing this to other people's attention in a outwardly social way doesn't feel comfortable, so this is where technical writing, science writing, and some ideas for novels have come from.

To answer the first question you posed, I don't feel a need to be or act unique or different. I just am different. I used to find this was something that was "wrong" with me. Then, I embraced my eccentric behavior and decided that's what made me who I am. I don't cling to it in a way where I can say, "lookie me, I'm so novel. I'm so cool." I just am aware that I'm different from most people and by embracing it, I no longer feel any dissonance over it. Perhaps as a teenager I might have acted out a bit, but I've always been a 5 first and the 4 wing as peripheral. Primarily, I engage in the typical "hoarding" (information, time, energy) that 5s do and the profound withdrawal a type 5 sp/sx would do.
 
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I know you asked for a from the horse's mouth answer, and that there are probably a bazillion 5w4's stalking this thread with a better means to elaborate.

But as someone who has worked with INTJ 5w4's and picked up on our differences, their motive reads as if they want to study their personal interests alone, in privacy, with full liberty to explore the path they want to explore to the extent and time limit they choose without being told what to do or how to do it. When they aren't in a good spot, they come across as being really, really afraid of being overwhelmed while at the same time defensive that anyone invade their privacy (in fact, if that happens they physically move away).

Could be wrong, but I also think they want to maximize the amount of knowledge they have (to the point that they are the keeper of that knowledge), while minimizing exposure to things that are hard to deal with or require getting into conflict, or being available to people emotionally. More or less they're usually successful in this. There's an 8-ish side to them that wants everything for themselves, and doesn't want to give back of themselves what they feel they don't have to give. That lower end of 8 and 4 can also come off as being quite rejecting of other people, and even a little provocative at times - which I know I feel frequently with them, having the 1 and 2 that wants to help them : )

The Te is weaker in the 5w4's. They act blunt and what not, but I've seen them openly cry in public which isn't typical for Te-heavy types. They almost always look much more like a poster child for Ni. The Te-ish 5's are the w6's who can look a bit more balanced with Ni and Te.
 

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I want to explore my interests without people cramping my style. It's easy enough with most things - work, hobbies - but hard with relationships. I read a lot, mostly fiction. Love poetry. Music is important, too - mostly classical. I'm not visual and hence not much into visual arts. There are exceptions of course.

My ideal life scenario would be living in a secluded house surrounded by beautiful nature a shortish drive from a major city with interesting cultural opportunities - theaters, concerts, exhibitions etc. I'd write novels and share my life with one highly compatible person. We'd naturally give each other plenty of mental space and share the moments you want to share. Shared silence for the most part. I like touch a lot. No kids. I've had a vasectomy.

Beyond that one person, I'm not particularly interested in people. I don't much care what they do with their lives as long as they don't stand in my way. They'll regret if they do. Not a fan of the species, but they can be interesting to analyse when there's sufficient distance.

Truths come on a scale of applicability from extremely personal to absolutely universal. Only a fool would claim that truths are only subjective or only universal.

I don't see Jungian cognitive functions as distinct enough to describe how they play out in my life. Reality is complex. Enneagram wise I relate to 5, 4 and 9 but am not interested enough to investigate whether there is any substance to the tritype theory.
 

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Firstly, my idea is to know how this rationalism-pragmatism of INTJs joins together with that need of authenticity of the 4 wing, because I feel like sometimes trying to be unique and different it's extremely far from pragmatism and out-world results (Does this make you inner conflict?).
I'm very aware of my value for authenticity. I hate fake anything. It's never been worth it for me to pretend to be something I'm not in the hope of 'fitting in' or being better accepted. It wasn't even something I considered, even with the negative feedback I repeatedly receive for my truth & Te talk, off-putting natural confidence and general weirdness. I am what I am, I'm not apologizing for existing, that's it.

It may seem like I value originality for myself but, speaking overall, I'm not trying to be different, I'm just being me. I also don't have that 'pride' in being different like some who put so much into being 'original' do. I actually really want to be around people like me and feel a sense of belonging -- the fact that I'm very different to people I know (and other INTJs as it turns out) is not a good feeling for me. I look forward to being with 'my type'.

I deal with people who wish to block/punish/attack me for being 'different' (or for the way I 'make' them feel, bystanders included) by avoiding them or creating situations where they can't block/hurt me (classic e5 protecting myself while preparing for a strategic return).

It's probably not a coincidence that I work for myself and always planned on being CEO of my own company. In both cases the work itself is of a nature where having original insight/going against others/what's commonly known is actually beneficial. Overall I see my enneagram and my INTJness working very well together (I also have a strong 1w9 influence which helps me 'break out' of being withdrawing/fearful when something is important or 'right').

Also, I would like to know important is art (poetry, music, writing, etc.) for you and if that relieves you from your rational side or you somehow still analyze art rationally. Probably you may use art as a tool to understand the human condition.
Art is very important to me. I see so much as art (including the way I choose to live my life, nature itself etc). I need beautiful things/experiences/people in my life; the evocative, the elegant and the unexpected (so as to not be cliche/tiresome). I have to laugh at myself at how 'disturbed' I get by being surrounded in ugliness/thoughtlessness/stagnancy.

As far as art 'relieving' my rational side: I can 'let go' in the presence of beauty or analyze great work. Sometimes I like to take it in emotionally and then analyze what made it so good (out of curiosity). I love ideas and reading into what the artist is (likely) saying. Other times I take a break from thinking, focusing only on how it feels to take something beautiful in.

I also particularly enjoy practical 'art'; architecture, interior design, fine clothing, grace in movement (I'm a dancer). I used to want to 'understand the human condition' and read great writers/thinkers to that end. Now, having experienced more of what people are like, I say "define human" :)
 

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Plague Doctor
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I know you asked for a from the horse's mouth answer, and that there are probably a bazillion 5w4's stalking this thread with a better means to elaborate.

But as someone who has worked with INTJ 5w4's and picked up on our differences, their motive reads as if they want to study their personal interests alone, in privacy, with full liberty to explore the path they want to explore to the extent and time limit they choose without being told what to do or how to do it. When they aren't in a good spot, they come across as being really, really afraid of being overwhelmed while at the same time defensive that anyone invade their privacy (in fact, if that happens they physically move away).

Could be wrong, but I also think they want to maximize the amount of knowledge they have (to the point that they are the keeper of that knowledge), while minimizing exposure to things that are hard to deal with or require getting into conflict, or being available to people emotionally. More or less they're usually successful in this. There's an 8-ish side to them that wants everything for themselves, and doesn't want to give back of themselves what they feel they don't have to give. That lower end of 8 and 4 can also come off as being quite rejecting of other people, and even a little provocative at times - which I know I feel frequently with them, having the 1 and 2 that wants to help them : )

The Te is weaker in the 5w4's. They act blunt and what not, but I've seen them openly cry in public which isn't typical for Te-heavy types. They almost always look much more like a poster child for Ni. The Te-ish 5's are the w6's who can look a bit more balanced with Ni and Te.
I identify with this a lot ... except the crying part. I'm not much of a cryer, I've found. Almost 90% of my crying is triggered from being sick or having a high fever. I have chronic pain as well, so when I get physically overwhelmed, that inescapable (though transient) physical misery "gets" me. Especially if I can't read (bright lights making a headache worse).
 

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In light of the correction, I have two goals - one a realistic one, and one an unrealistic (at the current time).

My realistic one - Is to be well educated in the arts of science (geology more specifically), and that apply that understanding in making the earth a cleaner place to live. I picture myself living somewhere remotely, perhaps with family, surrounded by a two-story library, with a fireplace in the background, to the sound of logs cracking in the fire, while sitting on a leather chair, reading a novel theory at night. I always thought of libraries as fascinating places, full of mystery and knowledge, cataloged appropriately. In my youth, I always suspected there would be a hidden vault or trove where the more antique books could be found, offering insights into a world that no-one have thought off yet. And then I would somehow apply that understanding to achieve a novel or an original idea that answers the big questions in life.

My unrealistic goal in life is divided into two parts - gaining a profound understanding of how the universe works (similar to Hawking), and finding a way to cheat death. I fear death, because the thought of me losing conscious thought after my passing is something I cannot comprehend and wish to avoid. Very stereotypical, I know, but no less true because of it. The general undercurrent of my thoughts is freedom from earthly ties, independence, mystery, originality. I'm certain if the previous themes were combined it would yield greater insights into my character.

I hope the above satisfied your question.
 
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I left all pretty open because my idea was that you guys would choose by yourselves what specifically to talk about instead of me choosing any topic, because maybe I wouldn't get into the key parts. However it seems that I didn't give enough information because I didn't define what to answer. I will try to be more specific.

Firstly, my idea is to know how this rationalism-pragmatism of INTJs joins together with that need of authenticity of the 4 wing, because I feel like sometimes trying to be unique and different it's extremely far from pragmatism and out-world results (Does this make you inner conflict?).

Also, I would like to know important is art (poetry, music, writing, etc.) for you and if that relieves you from your rational side or you somehow still analyze art rationally. Probably you may use art as a tool to understand the human condition.

Thanks.
Truth *is* authenticity by definition.
However, when one is dealing with other people, this can lead to pitfalls of various types.

Consider the canonical counterexample of a photograph snapped and appearing in the newspaper (oh, ok, make it a short iPhone video clip appearing on Social Media), which shows a man running up to an old lady on a walker and shoving her violently across the sidewalk. Instant condemnation, and well deserved, so there!

...except, no. She had been walking obliviously into the path of an oncoming truck, and the guy, by shoving her out of the way (no time to warn her and deal with her hard-of-hearing response, "WHAT, Sonny?"), saved her life.

The problems include
a) incomplete information
b) differing *sets* of incomplete information (5 blind men and an elephant)
c) dogmatic blinders (insert your least-favored political aphorism here)
d) ulterior motives, whether on one's own behalf directly, or interactions with other people, unknown to your interlocutor
("I'd love to sell you product XYZ and price $123, but my boss has them set aside for one of our favorite clients")
("Yes, Susan *loves* men who are bold enough to accost her -- ("sucker. she'll blow you out of the water and I'll have
a better chance with her once you're out of the way") )
e) necessary approximations due to limitations on the listener (why is the rainbow so beautiful? asks the 5-year-old, completely unprepared or Airy functions and total internal reflection of light inside the raindrops)

Another way of saying this, is

'Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point. French. Pascal. The heart has its reasons, whereof reason knows nothing.'

And this can be the connection between the rational, Te, objective, and the Fi.
Savoir and connaître. Savoir is to know a datum, a fact, a ledger entry, to so many decimal places.
Connaître is knowledge by acquaintance, "Do you know Seattle?" "How well do you know kaizer?" "How well do you know Beethoven's Pastorale?"

So knowledge of art, of music, can contain things that are true, that speak to *your* heart -- one particular still life, a landscape, a sweeping passage o music -- can pull up, or feed, or devastate one's Fi -- it is not "objective" in the sense one cannot create a titre of 0.023 mg of sadness. But, like objective fact, it can be shared: but just as text and words are laden with multiple meanings, with nuance, with connotation as well as denotation, making them extraordinarily powerful -- at the cost of infinite precision -- hard data, numbers, objective truth, can be shared, but fail to inform the heart.

Meaning, fact, and truth, overlap, but not completely.

"What is one to do with those who are cursed with both Hearts and Brains?" cries the 5w4.


 

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Hi Figure, I just wanted to give you another data point since I relate so little to the below -- although I see brightflashes does :) We must be more of a mixed bag. It does seem to depend on how strong our Te is relative to our Ni. Perhaps enneagram health levels and instinct also play a part.

Could be wrong, but I also think they want to maximize the amount of knowledge they have (to the point that they are the keeper of that knowledge), while minimizing exposure to things that are hard to deal with or require getting into conflict, or being available to people emotionally. More or less they're usually successful in this. There's an 8-ish side to them that wants everything for themselves, and doesn't want to give back of themselves what they feel they don't have to give. That lower end of 8 and 4 can also come off as being quite rejecting of other people, and even a little provocative at times - which I know I feel frequently with them, having the 1 and 2 that wants to help them : )
I do want to maximize the amount of knowledge I have in key areas but I don't want to be the keeper of that information. I'll hand it out to anyone I think is open/interested and am an open book if asked. I enjoy 'giving back' (this feels very natural to me) and will be there for inner circle people emotionally.

I don't like conflict but I won't avoid it if it's coming. I only minimize my exposure to hard to deal with things when it's the best choice for me (I don't do true avoidance. If somethings needs to get done, I'll do it. I would see myself as 'weak' if I didn't and that's intolerable). I can't say I'm a big fan of people generally but I'm still open. It's the ones who disregard me who are rejected.

My avarice is more to do with my time -- I must control it and the pattern is I give less to people than they want from me (I really value time and I need time alone). This is what friends complain about, otherwise I'm considered thoughtful & generous. I was under the impression (read somewhere) that the w4 wing is the friendlier/more sociable 5. I'm SX so I display far less avarice in a romantic relationship.

The Te is weaker in the 5w4's. They act blunt and what not, but I've seen them openly cry in public which isn't typical for Te-heavy types. They almost always look much more like a poster child for Ni. The Te-ish 5's are the w6's who can look a bit more balanced with Ni and Te.
This couldn't be further from the truth for me. Fwiw in a functions test I tested as stronger in Te than Ni (100% vs 75%). But I'm an INTJ. I'm ILI-Te. I see my Ni and Te as about equal. My Te is such that not only are my ISFP etc friends telling me I'm blunt and am frequently misunderstood by people who don't know me well (who listen to my tone rather than the words), it's come to my attention that even my fellow INTJs misread me bc of my Te talk. I've never cried in public. I've noticed a distinct difference between Ni heavy and Te heavy INTJs and am most definitely the latter. I wish a subtype would be created that is between ENTJ and INTJ.
 

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I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.

Ni: It seeks to make its own framework out of the present relative to the past and future. The concept of time is imperative to my analysis of life, keeping it in mind is what makes me look at the big picture. Anything of value I might or might not have, whether it'd be an object, or an accomplishment, becomes but a speck of dust once I take time into account, once related to the objective past and future, and suddenly there is so much more that is greater, more meaningful. When looking into the nature of something, I first look at how it has behaved, is currently behaving, and will behave. That which has become consistent over the time is truth. This is why I believe that history serves as the foundation of all knowledge.

Te: Very critical, it seeks to judge and likewise eliminate. It does so by filtering something out, before looking to see whether it has a purpose in the specified goal. It is much more active and ambitious. Say, on the subject of mistakes, Ni will understand and believe them to be reflective of something, information, still, just that we have to know how to use it, Te sees them as a nuisance to building a perfect world, and wants to get rid of it.

Universal truth is much more important because at least I can make something useful and influential out of it. Besides, universal truth encompasses my own truth - I will likely do subpar on the activity of self reflection if I do not seek for external data relative to how the act of it is done and how it behaves.


 

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What are your key motivations?
Learn enough of the right things to orient myself in the world and derive a sense of continuity and meaning, apply what I learn in a way that helps other people orient themselves in the world and derive a sense of continuity and meaning. It's a simple answer but the question isn't very specific.

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.
Ni isn't always focused for me, exactly. It's often very dreamy and nebulous and strange... but when the stars align my Ni-brain suddenly gets high-def about the subject matter it's faced with, like I've just had my intellectual camera lens adjusted or something. The subject matter is usually determined by some combination of Te (formal data and organizational principles), Fi (what stirs me emotionally or ethically) and Se (informal data AKA my experiential perceptions).

Regarding how Te "fits in" to 5w4, well... like any other INTJ I take pleasure in devising my own organizational systems, but the systems of whatever sort I devise or prefer are often more iconoclastic than that of INTJs of other Enneastripes. I like working with hard data, but want to synthesize it in unique rather than completely conventional ways.

And I don't think that universal truth and personal truth are all that separable. There's the truth about the nature of the world (inasmuch as we have access to that), and there's the truth about the part of the world that is us, and there's a practical truth to be found about our most effective or personally fulfilling potential role within the world. No facet is worth having strictly on its own... perfect anomie is more or less humanly intolerable with or without perfect knowledge (and as a 5w4 I expect I know a little something about feelings of anomie).

@Figure's outsider's perspective insights are well worth listening to. I especially agree that 5w4s tend to be more Ni-heavy than 5w6s overall. Te is an objective function and 5w6 is the more objective of the two wings - 5w4s by virtue of the 4 influence are more idiosyncratic and surreal - Ni is subjective and abstract. Because 4 and 5 are both withdrawn types they're more prone to withdrawal (6s tend to be joiners in their own way, its title often has "loyal" in it for a reason) - Ni is an introverted function and when JCF-normative INTJs tuck into themselves Ni is where they're going to go.

I don't know if it's that 5w4s use Te less or less competently necessarily - I have a very Te-friendly job so it's easy for me to tap - as that having a 5w4's fixations is an invitation for dominant Ni to dive deep and grow such that it's very easy to get lost in. As a kind of world-building function it intersects neatly with the 5w4's tendency to have a somewhat uniquely weird and potentially even dark inner vista.

It is kind of amusing to hear of another INTJ 5w4 that also does wild things like cry in public occasionally. I don't know if the fact that I have is un-Te though. I used to be very good at holding back tears so it isn't lack of control exactly, but I've learned to see them as a bodily function useful for stress relief and like any other bodily function, if I need to do it or would benefit from it, I do it. Maybe my benefiting from it as often as I do is related to some 4-ish internal melodrama, it would make sense, but either way: I don't like doing it publicly but if it's the quickest way to get past something and I happen to be in public when I need to get past it, I'll let it happen without too much of a fight and without caring how it looks to the people around me (if they think I can't tear up and clean up at the same time I'll just show them different). In a sense my refusing to cry was much more emotionally driven than my crying ever has been.
 
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