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Discussion Starter #1
I am in need of an ESTPs thoughts about this post https://www.personalitycafe.com/#/topics/1292403

Basically, for quite a while, I have been consistently typed as ESTP. Now, I can't really tell how much of an ESTP I am, so that's why I need an ESTPs thoughts about that post. It's a questionnaire I recently filled (the 4th attempt, actually) and, just like I said, consistently typing as ESTP (not to mention my Enneagram is 7w8 which happens to scream ExTP) screams something to me, but I need a second pair of eyes to confirm my assumption 馃檪

Any more info you need, don't hesitate to ask. In fact, it would be a good thing to have more than just ESTPs reviewing that post; it would help to establish even better if I am an Se dom or aux. I just posted it here in the ESTP section since that was the type I consistently scored as.
 

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Went through your post history and found both of your type threads. Nope. Not ESTP imo - but I could be wrong.

Lack of ESTPness is clearer in the first Type me thread (the one dealing with scenarios) than the second one where in the first thread Te is more prominent than Ti and Se ... is just kinda there.

If you've read the ESTP type description and still have doubts, then it's likely that you're not it. From experience of myself and others I can tell you that once you get your type right, the descriptions just jump out at you because they are very, very close as a whole. Not just a part here or a part there.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
To be perfectly honest, the only thing I don't doubt is me being a T.
But the thing that sticks out like an eyesore is that:
1. I take in objective facts.
2. Produce a judgment based on my own sense of logic. I do sometimes use objective logic, but not all the time. And usually, I only really understand it if it follows my way of thinking.
AFAIK, that's Ti. But it doesn't seem to be as developed as in a Ti dom, so that leaves it as Ti aux. The only Ti aux types are ESTP and ENTP.
Te dom would've been a possible variant, but Te doms are described as being highly organized, very systematic. I am anything but systematic. And I care a lot about the road, not the end result. If the road islong and painful, then why bother?
ENTP just doesn't fit me that well. Ne dom is described as highly aware of possibilities around them. Whereas Se is highly aware of what is around them <- that's something I do easily, but generating possibilities? Not that easy.
I would ask you to test me to see if I use TeFi/TiFe axis, but I don't think it's the right place for it.
There are two other Type me posts (besides these two I had mentioned) that I wrote. If you don't mind taking a look at them, then that'd be great.
 

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To be perfectly honest, the only thing I don't doubt is me being a T.
But the thing that sticks out like an eyesore is that:
1. I take in objective facts.
2. Produce a judgment based on my own sense of logic. I do sometimes use objective logic, but not all the time. And usually, I only really understand it if it follows my way of thinking.
AFAIK, that's Ti. But it doesn't seem to be as developed as in a Ti dom, so that leaves it as Ti aux. The only Ti aux types are ESTP and ENTP.
Te dom would've been a possible variant, but Te doms are described as being highly organized, very systematic. I am anything but systematic. And I care a lot about the road, not the end result. If the road islong and painful, then why bother?
ENTP just doesn't fit me that well. Ne dom is described as highly aware of possibilities around them. Whereas Se is highly aware of what is around them <- that's something I do easily, but generating possibilities? Not that easy.
I would ask you to test me to see if I use TeFi/TiFe axis, but I don't think it's the right place for it.
There are two other Type me posts (besides these two I had mentioned) that I wrote. If you don't mind taking a look at them, then that'd be great.

"And I care a lot about the road, not the end result."
Is it just me, or is that a rather un-estp statement? :p

Edit: *insert more serious tone of voice

Reading https://www.personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/1289935-can-someone-help-me-figure-out-my-mbti-type.html#post42717947

Se as I personally know it is very sensory-details focused, whilst Ti is rather categorical in an "if X, then Y" manner. In contrast, I personally see a heavy focus on function, purpose and what "it" is in a general sense in your post. I may be wrong, but I personally don't see Se-Ti.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
@Choice Hmm... *thinks deeply*
Now that I'm thinking more, you're actually right.
But still, I have this hunch, this assumption that Se is still somewhere in my functions stack, but clearly not as dom or aux.
I guess I will have to clarify my judging axis first and then my perceiving axis.
 

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To be perfectly honest, the only thing I don't doubt is me being a T.
But the thing that sticks out like an eyesore is that:
1. I take in objective facts.
2. Produce a judgment based on my own sense of logic. I do sometimes use objective logic, but not all the time. And usually, I only really understand it if it follows my way of thinking.
AFAIK, that's Ti. But it doesn't seem to be as developed as in a Ti dom, so that leaves it as Ti aux. The only Ti aux types are ESTP and ENTP.
Te dom would've been a possible variant, but Te doms are described as being highly organized, very systematic. I am anything but systematic. And I care a lot about the road, not the end result. If the road islong and painful, then why bother?
ENTP just doesn't fit me that well. Ne dom is described as highly aware of possibilities around them. Whereas Se is highly aware of what is around them <- that's something I do easily, but generating possibilities? Not that easy.
I would ask you to test me to see if I use TeFi/TiFe axis, but I don't think it's the right place for it.
There are two other Type me posts (besides these two I had mentioned) that I wrote. If you don't mind taking a look at them, then that'd be great.
Hello.

(1) highly points out Te.
(2) points out basically what any humans do. Who doesn't use internal logic (=/= Ti)? Using internal logic doesn't mean you're actively using Ti (categorizing everything in an internal framework/system, as if world could be put in a single systematic equation that defined the truth. <- Kind of an extreme version of Ti.)
(+) The reason for ruling Te out of your stack is a MBTI misconception. Because Te =/= efficiency, Te =/= being rigid and organized, Te =/= being systematic, Te =/= caring only about results. A lot of Te-dom here fed this stereotype, but it's not necessarily true. It's more a "American Te-dom with a broom stuck in the ass working in management/finance" clich茅, which doesn't equal to every Te-dom. Te is more like your first point, actively looking for objective facts and putting them together.​

In any case, Ti strong users usually know how to use Te well, and the contrary is also true. Checking if you're using Ti or Fi as internal guidance would be more relevant to your case. Summed up simplistically, when someone does something morally VERY bad, are you all "Oh wow curious, why did he do that? Mmh." or "NO THAT'S SO WRONG KILL DAT TRASH".

(example : I know a Te-dom who will actively look for official information about you -what you do in life / did you lie about what you did in life-, to basically label you "trash" or "good person". On the other side, she's extremely morally principled. Ti-dom/aux, on the other side is more accepting of any kind of answer, but it strongly lacks what one would call 'a moral compass'. Again, those are extreme.)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
@Cobble

Dafuq? That Te-dom you mentioned is nuts. Complete and utter N U T S.
I just think like "why does she do that?"
FYI, I ask myself lots of "why?" questions. And not only myself; I put that question even more when it's something from the outside (aka not internal thoughts).
But thanks to you giving me an example, I think I my axis is Ti-Fe.
Reading more about this, it points out even more to Ti-Fe. But it's not Ti-dom. Not even close. More like Ti-aux.
 

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@Cobble

Dafuq? That Te-dom you mentioned is nuts. Complete and utter N U T S.
I just think like "why does she do that?"
FYI, I ask myself lots of "why?" questions. And not only myself; I put that question even more when it's something from the outside (aka not internal thoughts).
But thanks to you giving me an example, I think I my axis is Ti-Fe.
Reading more about this, it points out even more to Ti-Fe. But it's not Ti-dom. Not even close. More like Ti-aux.
Hehe yes I know, told you she was extreme, but the example was handy to showcase underdeveloped inf-Fi "Black and White vision". (+ distrust in people & unhealthy behavior alright.) Happy this helped you anyway. :)
 

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(example : I know a Te-dom who will actively look for official information about you -what you do in life / did you lie about what you did in life-, to basically label you "trash" or "good person". On the other side, she's extremely morally principled. Ti-dom/aux, on the other side is more accepting of any kind of answer, but it strongly lacks what one would call 'a moral compass'. Again, those are extreme.)
@Cobble - Since both of you are now conversing about this example, i just want to correct that from my perspective and experience with EXFP's and IXFP's, it sounds like tertiary or inferior Te because the moral judgment isn't the one being suppressed, but rather the information gained isn't being used to suppress the snap judgment.

Think IXFP or EXFP. Te-dom or aux will not make snap moral judgments about someone else like that.

Ti is more about information for information sake. Negative Fi-Te from my experience tends to weaponize information (hence the "mean girls" trope), meanwhile negative Ti-Fe (or even Fe-Ti) contemplates and uses it to manipulate the person himself/herself.
 

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@Cobble - Since both of you are now conversing about this example, i just want to correct that from my perspective and experience with EXFP's and IXFP's, it sounds like tertiary or inferior Te because the moral judgment isn't the one being suppressed, but rather the information gained isn't being used to suppress the snap judgment.

Think IXFP or EXFP. Te-dom or aux will not make snap moral judgments about someone else like that.

Ti is more about information for information sake. Negative Fi-Te from my experience tends to weaponize information (hence the "mean girls" trope), meanwhile negative Ti-Fe (or even Fe-Ti) contemplates and uses it to manipulate the person himself/herself.
How is your mouth doing? Better today I hope!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
How is your mouth doing? Better today I hope!
Yeah. There's no pain and stuff. The orthodontist said that there is a crack but it should be ok if they just give me a crown.
A crack? Now that must suck! Never experienced any, but it sure must be nasty 馃槙

Anyways, I have taken this test from https://www.personalityassessor.com/personality-types/ and, surprise, surprise? It typed me as ESTP. But here's the catch: the description actually fucking fits me.
Here's the thing (apparently taken from myersbriggs.com, or so the site claims):
"Warmly enthusiastic and imaginative." Check.
"See life as full of possibilities." Check.
"Make connections between events and information very quickly, and confidently proceed based on the patterns they see." Wuuut? This is far more accurate than I had thought...
"Want a lot of affirmation from others, and readily give appreciation and support. " This part couldn't be more spot-on tbh.
"Spontaneous and flexible, often rely on their ability to improvise and their verbal fluency." I do improvise, but I always have in mind to improvise as best I can. Quality is what I guide myself by. When improvising, I make sure to find the best solution for the time being, but I'll make sure to come back later and check if there's anything to improve upon. Idk how much of an ESTP thing this is, though.
Reading more, it seems that I'm:
85% Extraverted
13% Intuitive - I dare to disagree with this, since I can show good intuition when I want to. It all depends on the moment.
71% Thinking. Wasn't doubting this. It's the only thing that has stayed constant throughout any test I've taken.
5% Judging. Yikes 馃槙 This might be a bit off, though.
One other nice thing about that test is it also measures your Big 5 traits. And so:
62% Extraverted (much more accurate tbh).
10% Agreeableness (I remember scoring even less - around 4%)
6% Conscientious. Not entirely true. If it's something that interests me and I think it's meaningful, I'll give it all I got. Bring in the big guns! But if it's otherwise... expect me to fall asleep. That's how bored I can get, and it happens quite a lot.
72% Neurotic. Guess I'll have to work on my stress threshold. But I've seen that, when I'm carefree, I also act and handle stress way better than most.
9% Openness. Again, I think it's very situational and very dependant on my surroundings and my mood. Maybe this is why I score so low on Openness.

All this being said, I think I've finally reached the end destination, and so confirmed my hunch that I'm an ESTP. Not the clearest one, but most likely an ESTP. I still need your opinion, though. Having multiple points of view about something is always better than having none.
 

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I'm not commenting on your type because this is your personal journey and you should take it. I may change my mind about commenting on it later (who knows, my mind changes very quickly about things so I'll say one thing and then go and do another if it strikes my fancy).

Personally, I consistently test ENTP on every single test I've ever taken - including the one above. Even in the Big 5, I pretty much always test very high on openness. I've been told by people that I'm ENTP or INTP - but that's because of their own view of what intuition is -- but in jungian terms, I don't prefer extroverted intuition half as much as I prefer sensation.

Why am I talking about myself? Because test taking and relying on those results is not the correct way to determine your type. You need to go out there and live life as close to your personal preferences as possible before those preferences become absolutely clear to you. I had a period of 6 years since 2012 to examine life from a standpoint of living it like I would like to live it and all of the way I life my life points to healthy and copious amounts of Se.

At the same time and I need to bring this to everyone's attention when they start talking about Big 5 correlations.

Look at their description and you'll see how testing for Sensation in particular is greatly flawed:

This is what they said about Openness:

You are high in openness. People high in openness like to try new foods, visit new cities, have new experiences, have intellectual discussions, and reflect on their experiences. People low in openness tend to be more conservative and prefer routine. They are more comfortable with familiar surroundings.
*Intellectual discussions is a thinking or feeling preference and self-reflection is neither N, nor S. I have no clue why intellect is associated with N except that it's asserted to be.

Jungian intuiting (vs. sensing) taps how creative and imaginative you are. Big Five openness is a broader concept that includes creativity and imagination, but also taps your desires for variety and to have new experiences.
Out of this, I've highlight the parts that are also 100% Se. What they've done is compared what they think is iNtuition to the descriptions of introverted sensing ... while neglecting those aspects of N that include aspects of Sensation ... On top of that those descriptions of introverted sensing that were written about people from around the time Meyer's developed her MBTI .. It's quite the mess. The correlation between Openness and iNtuition/Sensing is shoddy at best.

There is no way someone that's Sensation should be scoring low on Openness on the Big 5. Mid-range, maybe. But not low. It would be a contradiction.
 

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PS. I hope you don't mind me saying this, but do something about that neuroticism score. It's on the high end and potentially indicating something is wrong in your life that requires a course correction.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
PS. I hope you don't mind me saying this, but do something about that neuroticism score. It's on the high end and potentially indicating something is wrong in your life that requires a course correction.
Yeah, I know...
Every time something doesn't go my way or how I thought it would turn out, I just stress out a lot. And this happens especially in school, during exams... and it has proven many times already that it has the potential to bring me down immensely. That's probably why I have this tendecy to give up quickly: once I get to an obstacle and I'm unable to get over it, it becomes clear to me that I'm not good at it. I think you're good at something naturally, not forcibly. Like, it's something you tap into easily, you understand it, you get the picture very well... I just find it hard. Very hard. If it happens early on, the more I'm prone to giving up. If it happens later, and I just can't get over it, after trying anything I had thought of, again: I give up.

My self image is just horrible. Fucking horrible. Anytime I'm trying to find something at least half good about myself, I just can't. A huge blackhole forms and voila! "Haaah Vladdo, did you think you'd get this through? Not today scumbag" is the way my mind works, I think.

Tbh, it's such a fucking mess that I choose to deny it even exists. I just let it be there, forget about it. If you're really that interested in finding out more, I'm open to this. Who knows... maybe I'm just stupid... but my sense of realism and objectivity just overthrow anything good I come up with about myself.
 

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Yeah, I know...
Every time something doesn't go my way or how I thought it would turn out, I just stress out a lot. And this happens especially in school, during exams... and it has proven many times already that it has the potential to bring me down immensely. That's probably why I have this tendecy to give up quickly: once I get to an obstacle and I'm unable to get over it, it becomes clear to me that I'm not good at it. I think you're good at something naturally, not forcibly. Like, it's something you tap into easily, you understand it, you get the picture very well... I just find it hard. Very hard. If it happens early on, the more I'm prone to giving up. If it happens later, and I just can't get over it, after trying anything I had thought of, again: I give up.

My self image is just horrible. Fucking horrible. Anytime I'm trying to find something at least half good about myself, I just can't. A huge blackhole forms and voila! "Haaah Vladdo, did you think you'd get this through? Not today scumbag" is the way my mind works, I think.

Tbh, it's such a fucking mess that I choose to deny it even exists. I just let it be there, forget about it. If you're really that interested in finding out more, I'm open to this. Who knows... maybe I'm just stupid... but my sense of realism and objectivity just overthrow anything good I come up with about myself.
That sounds like a Ti-Ni feedback look, but it's hard to tell which direction. Whether it's Ti-Ni or Ni-Ti is harder to determine, but it's possible that your cognitive functions may be switched at this point.

Mine went the other way (Fe-Se) from my preferences (Se-Fe) when i was stressed and I also found myself in a deep negative Ni world full of apocalyptic doom and existential thinking several years ago. There isn't much merit to the loop theory, but inferior iNtuition stress can be fairly apocalyptic and full of paranoia. Fe-Se makes ESTP's more like unhealthy versions exhibitionists.

The key to ESTP survival is working smart, not hard. It's not about getting the best grades in everything possible, but prioritizing what's important and how much effort is required to get by ... But also having a keen awareness of it. This is why ESTPs are considered one of the street smart types.

Feel free to post your concerns or even PM me. I am not as helpful as I used to be but if there's something in there I can address and give you advice that might help, I'll give it a genuine shot.
 

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If it helps, mbti tests on the internet have always been a shoddy experience for me. I wind up ISFP for result on the one that looks at functions instead of generic questions, which some others say seemed the least biased -- largely owing to my interpretation of semantics, how I personally set parameters etc.

The more generic ones generally place me as ENTP, & I'm just like, fucking close enough. (I don't know what I'm doing wrong! I mean, I answer yes to the more informed by experience than imagination type of questions 炉\_(銉)_/炉)
 
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