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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How do you deal with the need to argue when you know there is no point in arguing at all?

When the individual you're about to go into a debate with is a close minded sad little human, who (you know from past experience) cannot even stand the thought of opinions contrary to his, yet he does everything he can to bait you into arguing? Logically you know that there's simply no point, not because there's no chance of changing their minds - that's not the point - but because there's no chance of having a meaningful, interesting conversation without appeals to emotion and authority. Which is incredibly frustrating and draining.

You know this and yet, there's a compulsive voice in your mind that tells you that you have to (figuratively speaking :p).

Personally sometimes I give in, sometimes I don't. Depends on my mood I suppose. But it feels kind of..unnatural when I don't, even under the conditions I mentioned above. Resorting to sarcasm sure helps though.

Does this happen to you people? (of course it does) How do you react?
 

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I found that when I do give in, and debate away, at the end of it I inevitably feel anoyed and like I lost my time, that being said in most casses I will debate and try over and over new aproaches, anything to open the persons mind and then again and in the end fail again.... but and this is a big but, I find great satisfaction in telling the story to other friends with whom I can analyze why the person in question won't open up, is so stubborn etc
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I found that when I do give in, and debate away, at the end of it I inevitably feel anoyed and like I lost my time, that being said in most casses I will debate and try over and over new aproaches, anything to open the persons mind and then again and in the end fail again.... but and this is a big but, I find great satisfaction in telling the story to other friends with whom I can analyze why the person in question won't open up, is so stubborn etc
Good point, I do that too. I think the reason I keep arguing with people, even though they're close minded ect. is so that I can analyze them further.
 

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Good point, I do that too. I think the reason I keep arguing with people, even though they're close minded ect. is so that I can analyze them further.
Exactly, I got a Infp friend and don't get me wrong he's a great friend, but the stuff that comes out of him mouth sometimes leaves me dumbstruck, lost for words which is a rare state for me, and whats the most fascinating thing about it is that he doesn't realize what he's saying doesn't have any logic to it, totaly oblivious that most of it is vastly subjective, I'm thinking it's his Fi going out of control but who knows, my point is .... well I don't really have one, hope you get my meaning : )
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Exactly, I got a Infp friend and don't get me wrong he's a great friend, but the stuff that comes out of him mouth sometimes leaves me dumbstruck, lost for words which is a rare state for me, and whats the most fascinating thing about it is that he doesn't realize what he's saying doesn't have any logic to it, totaly oblivious that most of it is vastly subjective, I'm thinking it's his Fi going out of control but who knows, my point is .... well I don't really have one, hope you get my meaning : )
Ha, I have INFP friends too. Logic and pragmaticism is not their forte, but they get me instictivelly when I start talking crazy, and I get them. And debating them is fun, even though my arguments are usually logical (or at least my logic) while they defend theirs with what instictually feels right, their Fi, we can exchange opposing opinions like thinking adults. We're just using two different kinds of logic.

I think close minded-ness is the result of lack of education and varied experiences rather than type, though it might be related to functions, I don't know really.

But my point is why even bother? What's so fascinating about that kind of people that needs analyzing?
 

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Ha, I have INFP friends too. Logic and pragmaticism is not their forte, but they get me instictivelly when I start talking crazy, and I get them. And debating them is fun, even though my arguments are usually logical (or at least my logic) while they defend theirs with what instictually feels right, their Fi, we can exchange opposing opinions like thinking adults. We're just using two different kinds of logic.

I think close minded-ness is the result of lack of education and varied experiences rather than type, though it might be related to functions, I don't know really.

But my point is why even bother? What's so fascinating about that kind of people that needs analyzing?
Why do people bother with the things they do, it's one of the great questions human kind is trying to answer through art, science, psylosophy etc.
For me, and I'm not answering any of the big questions with this, when in situations when I don't see a point in discussing and generaly in the sharing of ideas and the other side is stubborn and unwilling to new ideas I try to remind my self that at the moment when I pick only the easy battles I'm the one who really loses, it might be a idealistic view and frustrating at times every once in a while you menage to crack even the tickest of skulls and open them to something new, and it us very rewarding
but I might be wrong who knows : )
 
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I mostly ignore people who are not ready to engage in rational, civil discourse. It is not possible to have a quality discussion when someone behaves like that. I personally don't have the urge to pursue those conversations because nothing good ever happens. I value my time and mental health more than I value the potential to beat a troll in an argument.
 

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The debate within my own head goes something like:

"Wrong! Wrong! I must tell them they're wrong!"
"It's no use"
"But I really need to tell them they're wrong because they're wrong and it's my DUTY to tell them they're wrong!"
"No, I shouldn't do it, it will open up a can of worms because they would rather reason with their feels"
"If I explain logically why they're wrong, that should be enough to persuade them!"
"No, they love their feels, it's a waste of time, I shouldn't do it, I won't do it, and it ultimately isn't worth it"
"But I can't just let them sit there and be stupid"

I either won't bother, or very tactfully and politely disagree, to which they usually respond with "BUT BLUBLUBLU-" and I just nod in agreement because I don't feel like arguing.

Sometimes if the person is actually close-minded, and you can't change their opinion, it's better to state your opinion for onlookers, who might be more open to it.
 

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It seems like a lot of you have far higher levels of self control than I do :tongue: , sure in most instances I just keep my mouth shut and happily nod my head away but in some casses, the "urge" just overpowers me and I let loose the dogs of war :laughing: , of course this has no real impact on the discussion since I'm dealing with a closed minded person but what can you do :tongue:
 

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Depends how tired and bored I am.
If i'm tired I can simply be reactive, not really thinking too much about the direction as much as the topic, though get really tired I can't be fucked.
If i'm bored i'm more likely to keep it going to a ridiculous long time and have done so a few times, just poking and prodding people and their points.
 

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I rarely debate on anything, since I find it a waste of time. Only if a decision affects me negatively will I strike out against it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You've only got so many chances to get good at arguing over mundane stuff; heaven forbid you aren't prepared when you need to argue for something important.
That's the point of my post, whether or not it's worth arguing important issues with people who are not open to discussion. If you can't even have a conversation without resorting to insults and arguments such as "I think this is that, because that's how it's always been, you're just young and stupid and can't see my oh-so-wise point." You have to pick your battles sometimes, but for me it's hard to do so.

Why do people bother with the things they do, it's one of the great questions human kind is trying to answer through art, science, psylosophy etc.
For me, and I'm not answering any of the big questions with this, when in situations when I don't see a point in discussing and generaly in the sharing of ideas and the other side is stubborn and unwilling to new ideas I try to remind my self that at the moment when I pick only the easy battles I'm the one who really loses, it might be a idealistic view and frustrating at times every once in a while you menage to crack even the tickest of skulls and open them to something new, and it us very rewarding
but I might be wrong who knows : )
It does feel very rewarding when you have a good debate and both people learn something from each other.

Try being a liberal that attends a conservative university and works in customer service in a small, bible belt town. I bite my tongue until it bleeds. Daily.
I had a similar situation in mind when I posted, so I feel for you. Although thankfully I don't have to deal with that crap on a daily basis. I'd probably go psycho killer if I did.

The debate within my own head goes something like:

"Wrong! Wrong! I must tell them they're wrong!"
"It's no use"
"But I really need to tell them they're wrong because they're wrong and it's my DUTY to tell them they're wrong!"
"No, I shouldn't do it, it will open up a can of worms because they would rather reason with their feels"
"If I explain logically why they're wrong, that should be enough to persuade them!"
"No, they love their feels, it's a waste of time, I shouldn't do it, I won't do it, and it ultimately isn't worth it"
"But I can't just let them sit there and be stupid"

I either won't bother, or very tactfully and politely disagree, to which they usually respond with "BUT BLUBLUBLU-" and I just nod in agreement because I don't feel like arguing.

Sometimes if the person is actually close-minded, and you can't change their opinion, it's better to state your opinion for onlookers, who might be more open to it.
Lol. That's what's going on in my head pretty much. I just don't know what to do, because if I bother, the result is me being angry at their level of stupidity. If I don't bother, I still get angry at their level of stupidity, and because I can't express myself. I realise that most people face those kind of people and situations on a regular basis, but I still don't know how to handle it, the people or the anger. I guess I have a short fuse.
 

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if it isn't going to change anything i'll usually pass. i usually give in when i get annoyed.
 
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I usually resort to simple derision. I figure that maybe if they feel as inadequate as I think they are in that particular arena, they might try to become more educated. I guess I'm just trying to help them, in my own way, because I pity them.

It doesn't work just as often as it does, though. So whether or not it's any better than pointless isn't really apparent to me.
 
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My step-father is ISTJ. With him I've learned policy of "don't ask, don't tell" as in "don't ask anything, don't tell anything". I am now capable of squishing my urge to argue, just smiling and nodding while mentally judging the hell out of them. Engaging such person will lead to frustration and just break my chill mood policy. Additionally, I avoid piping up if I know that the other person will take it personally or respond emotionally. I hate being recipient of yelling and brooding and definitely prefer to just not engage with people that are prone to that. :rolleyes:
 
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If I know there is no point at all in arguing, I don't argue.
Except if the people are stupid little SFs and love to annoy me and try to 'get even' (keeping track of points for every won arguments).
I won't give them the satisfaction.
But at some point i'll just throw cold water in their face to make them shut up.
 

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I don't argue if I don't like the topic and I definitely know that the other person will never take my viewpoints into consideration or even worse, will refuse to acknowledge what I said.

Although there is one exception to this - if I hear two people I know well enough debate with each other, it's practically impossible for me not to contribute somehow. For example, I once heard an ISTJ and INFP argue over something that was both insignificant and ultimately rather obvious and both sort of sucked so I thought I'd make things interesting and oh well, it lasted for pretty long.
 
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