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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Main Questions

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?
Right now, I really don't know because I have a lot of things in mind. I can say that I want to finish college, read a lot of books, have professional experiences and contacts for my career in politics, which I want to become a Master on Government or Public Administration. I also want to provide my parents with a better home and, if I become a father, to be an excellent figure for my children. I can say that I look for excellence and success.

At the same time, while I'm very competitive and ambitious (traits that I consider very dangerous double edged swords), there's also moments in life where I just want to live a calm, peaceful life with friends and family. No need to better myself, to compete or to be in constant pressure. I love peacefulness, truthfulness and a joyful environment. There are some times when I want to work as a fast food cashier or just a librarian. But my monetary and personal ambitions stop me from that. I want to make changes in the world, through politics and its practice.

I also want to develop and excellent attitude and a healthy personality. That started when I read Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. Despite being a product of its time, it showed to importance of making good and productive habits in life and making rational decisions.

I yearn for security and strong opinions too. My career in politics deals with a lot of ideologies that my peers adopt and defend critically, but I just can't fit with any of them. I think that ideologies aren't best applied for the entire world but country to country, each of them presenting particular economic, social, cultural and political issues. For such, I want and do read a lot of books, seek a lot of information, pay attention to classes and do everything to form my opinions, and defend them the best I can.

I can say that success drives me, but also the desire to live peacefully and calmly as well as a desire to make right and appropiate decisions.



2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?

I hope to work in government or NGOs and design projects for poor people. I hope to become an excellent human being, professional, friend, son and partner. I hope to experience the most of life and use that experience for productive ends. I hope to make theories about administration and government that will help people. I hope that these accomplishments make me happy and others happy.

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?

I avoid envy, since I tend to be envious and competitive. I love personal validation and praise, but I don't want that to be my main drive towards achieving my goals. I want to avoid anxiety, to second guess myself, to think way too much things. I want to be honest but not blunt, to act appropiatedly. I want to be a good person to people, but I don't want my goodness to be taken advantage of. I want to lead an active life, but my energy levels are low. I need to sleep a lot, and I hate that.

Responsibility, commitment, hard work, confidence, cooperation, trustfulness, persistence, friendship, solidarity, intelligence, tolerance, humbleness and openess are my core values.

4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?

Not doing the right decisions: that what I choose to do, the values I decide to live and the people that I choose to get together will just harm me and destroy me.

Not being able to correct my mistakes. I am often harsh, imprudent and somewhat insecure, which makes me get into hot water a lot. I want to be able to ammend my mistakes and do good.

Not being independent. I want to take the course of my life, have financial autonomy and being able to deal with people and the world to my benefit and other's benefit.

5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?
I want people to see me as a good person, a good professional and a good friend. I want people to depend on me, be seen as trustable and responsible. I want people to enjoy all the good attitudes and traits I have and help me correct all those that are not appropiate or right. I want people to think of me not as a rival, but as an ally, someone who knows will help them. I want to be respected for my knowledge, actions and judgement. I want to be the voice of reason and the peaceful resolution to conflicts.

I see myself as an ambitious person, with a lot of skills and abilities to achieve my goals. I see myself as intelligent and capable, but often distracted, absent-minded and somewhat doubtful of my intelligence. I see myself as a very responsible, mature person, who does his best to act appropiatedly and keep to his promises. Point of fact, I value responsibility more than intelligence, because there are a lot of people who aren't particularly gifted, not even in social intelligence, but they have a drive to do things right that makes them overcome their obstacles. I see myself as an emotional person, sometimes my feelings difficulting my activities. I see myself as very naive and gullible, cause I haven't experienced a lot of things people my age have.

But above all, I know that all my flaws will be corrected and my virtues will make me do great things in life. It's something I know will happen. I have confidence in my future.



6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?

What makes me feel best

My determination.
To have people who understands and supports me and viceversa.
To know that I have developed myself and became a better person.
Peacefulness and lack of conflict.
When I sleep, because I love sleeping.
To hang out with people, and being able to connect with them.
To do something that I love and succeeding at it.
To assert myself (cause I'm not THAT assertive).
To be honest even at complicated times.
Listening to music.
Watching movies.
Reading books.

What makes me feel worst

My sloth and lack of drive sometimes.
My envy.
Some people's competitive and utilitarian attitudes.
Lack of responsability.
Failing at something because I didn't do a lot of effort or not doing what was right.
Second guessing myself.
Seeing all sides of a problem and not taking a stance.
Impatience and lack of tolerance.
Hypocrisy.
People being rude and blunt using honesty as an excuse for their immature ways.
Any form of explotation.


7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.

Anger
I don't get angry easily, mostly it's shown through irritation. I don't like to be angry, cause when I am I become very explosive. Sometimes I use my anger or indignation towards goals in my life. I fear that my anger will destroy people, or that people will destroy me for expressing my anger. I want the appropiate use of anger, which I think is through assertiveness.

Shame
While I'm mostly shameless or counter-shame, my most common way of showing shame is through shyness. I am very extroverted and all of that, but there are times that I don't know how to approach certain people, so I become shy, fearing that I will be disliked for stupid reasons. However, there are times that I just don't give a shit and act the way I do with people, and if they don't like, I just distance myself and that's it. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. I also want to be respected, taken into account and be considered important and contributing, I'd be ashamed and angered if such things wouldn't be present in people, but if they do, I just walk away.

Anxiety

This has been a big enemy in my life. Most of my life's problems comes when I don't know how to deal with everyday's issues. I am very open to suggestions, opinions and such, but that makes me doubt myself a lot. That's why I either investigate more and more on something or I just trust my instincts (something I have trouble to) and do what I have in my head. That makes me very cautious as well as very impulsive. I want to be independent and wise so I calm my anxieties and act.

I see my anxiety coming in my family. I am an only child and I lived in a somewhat overprotected environment. I'm not that street smart or worldly wise, so that's why I behave anxiously, fearing that I will make some stupid mistake. I have inherited depression from my mom, and I have some symptoms of OCD, which further enhances my anxiety.

I am also aware of how unattentive or distracted I can be, so that's a source of behaving anxiously and over alert sometimes.


8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.

Stress
I hate it, absolutely hate it. Not even on the "small, healthy doses". If there's something I dislike is to be pressured. I want things to go calm and smoothly, and solving problems and challenges with such calm that will enhance my power. When there's stress I tend to put an adrenaline rush in myself, so I will not fall into deep and unproductive over-worrying and do some action. If there's a LOT of stress, then I seek for help, immediately.

Unexpected change
I don't like changes too, it angers me, especially when it's about commitments or responsiblities. I tend to get stressed for it, most of the times, so my reaction is the same as described above.

But when I see positive unexpected changes, I do feel really good, and I tend to see much more possibilities to even better the changes that have happened.

Conflict
I also dislike it, cause I like everything to be peaceful and calm, but I accept it when if the situation demands it. For example, I will have fights with my parents and friends, but that's something that will surely happen. It's part of life to disagree, and deeply. So I take my stance and make a resolution as best as possible. If there's a conflict without any conciliation, then I think that problem ended and my interaction with that person too.

But for example, if I ask someone a question, and they respond me angrily because they thought it was stupid, then I do become angry and demand some respect. I hate when people get angry for stupidities; but hey, people get angry for a myriad of reasons. So, it's very relative.

9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?

Authority
I want to be an authority figure to people. I want to be respected, considered, valued and I want my judgement to be appreciated and fair. I respect people who exercise their authority that way, who are also good role models. I deeply resent people who abuse their power, who wants to value themselves with their positions. They lose authority to me because they lose my respect, and authority must come with respect.
I tend to think that I can do better than them.

Power
It's essential to life to have power, to have the ability to do things. I want to have power and to put it into good pratice. I want my goals to be done with such power that they become magnanimous. I also desire wealth, knowledge and physical strength, that will make me do the right thing. Power without good judgement just sucks.

10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?

Life is something beautiful and approachable, and people have to experience it to its fullest potential. That's it, to experience every single thing out of it, and enjoy it exactly the way it is. There are tough moments, and people who live under horrendous circumstances which makes them resent their lives, but life is an interconnection of various elements that must support one each other. That is why all sciences and disciplines come, because we are aware that life is made of a fragile reunion of webs and webs of elements, and whose actions have an impact on everyone.

Humanity is an element of life itself. Our actions have an effect on life and our rationality must be conducted to improve life for its maximum enjoyment. Just as animals use primarily their instincts to make life go round, we are blessed with our reason and knowledge, which is our tool for happiness.

I don't think humanity is essentially evil. I know we are good, but we are sons of our time and circumstances, and we may do horrendous flaws due to that. But at the end of the day, it's up to us to see if we want to change. Not history, not anthropology, not genetics, but us.


I'll answer the optional questions later, as I'm hurried hehehe.
 

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Due to time constraints I didn't get all the way through it, but enough so to come to a conclusion that you're a 9w1. If there is a wing theory in effect you have probably the largest wing 1 I've seen.

There was a lot of 1-like stuff in there, but you don't seem to find peace with stuff regarding anger. You don't view the 'right' decision the same way a 1 would.

You aren't driven enough to be a 3 though you don't shy away from that kind of drive.

I didn't see anything else in there. Probably the most favorable kind of type 9s I've seen to date.
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
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You are definitely not 9w1 as you claim. I would never really use the words "driven", "determined", "assertive" to describe me, even if my life looks successful on the surface.

My guess is 6w5-3w2-9w1. I was going to say 3w2, but apparently @Boss doesn't think you could be core 3. You seem to talk a lot about competition and drive, though, IMO.
 

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@jdmn, do you have a tendency to over-think things or look for problems and create sometimes unnecessary panic or do you have a stronger tendency to just believe things will work out and try to stay blind to problems?

I wonder how subject sensitive the above question applies. We all have to take on responsibility, and therefore inner peace and a lack of care is not possible

jdmn said:
What makes me feel best

My determination.
Why? What do you intend to accomplish when asserting energy?


To have people who understands and supports me and viceversa.
Are you insecure with life? Why are others' support necessary?


To know that I have developed myself and became a better person.
What is the goal of becoming a better person? I don't think 9s are particularly judgmental about how they contribute in the grand scheme of things often, though they may care it's not their main focus as you have shown.


Peacefulness and lack of conflict.
9s feel the best when they're at rest, but peacefulness and lack of conflict doesn't necessarily mean that. That just means nothing to create problems for you. You've shown a desire to stay productive and moving forward, so maybe the 9 typing is out of the question. What do you make of the deeper meaning to this?


When I sleep, because I love sleeping.
Don't we all?


To hang out with people, and being able to connect with them.
Is this seeking security and having support as you mentioned in this post earlier? Or is it a matter of affection? It doesn't sound very 9-like because 9s are focused on just enjoying themselves and staying at peace.


To do something that I love and succeeding at it.
To not fail while enjoying yourself. It may sound a bit 3ish but you've shown a distancing from this drive of ambition, so you aren't as driven as a 3.


To assert myself (cause I'm not THAT assertive).
9s have averse reaction to this because it is just something that stresses them out. Safe to say that you don't take on anxiety because of your demanded to take action that you prefer not to like a 9. You feel good when you push through your anxieties of taking action and act boldly maybe?


To be honest even at complicated times.
Sounds rather 1ish more than anything. You've emphasized to desire to be good, and this maybe an expression of your goodness. As I mentioned my last post, you aren't a 1.

I would say you're most likely a 6 after further review. I somehow missed obvious signs last night of this as I was in a rush. Glad I returned to it.
 

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Maybe you could ask for @Jawz's help... he has also been spending time deciding between a core type of 3, 9, and 6.

If he wasn't inactive.... :sad:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ok... so we're thinking similar. I think my fixes are 3, 6 and 9 too. I'll first answer @Wake 's questions, then I'll go to @Boss ' suggestions (thanks for your compliment though :), I like your poetry on the ENFJ section!) and finally @MBTI Enthusiast 's

Do you have a tendency to over-think things or look for problems and create sometimes unnecessary panic or do you have a stronger tendency to just believe things will work out and try to stay blind to problems?

Both of them are very present. As I say, I am confident in my future, and I think I will solve all my problems one way or another. However, I think that destiny will not help me, and I have to take control of a determined thing or problem. I tend to over-think things and sometimes fall into desperation when I can't find answers, since I am pretty much impulsive and easily altered, though I'm very good at hiding it. I also tend to look for a lot of guidance, whether is through research or advice, and I tend to analyze it and see if it's useful or not. That's when I know I have a lot of sixish tendencies.

As I believe that I must take the initiative to solve problems, and my anxiety issues, I think that over-thinking prevails over trusting that everything will end well.

About my determination
Why? What do you intend to accomplish when asserting energy?

Most of my life I have been a rather lazy person, being the main reason my symptoms of depression inherited by my mother. I was fairly responsible, but not into the point of excellence. As I grew up, I found out that it's important to have determination, something that arises my willpower and makes me active and contributing. I intend to stop the laziness in me and become much more active in my life, so I get out the best in me.

Are you insecure with life? Why are others' support necessary?

No, I don't think of myself as being insecure with life. But as human beings, we need people who are able to understand us and give us support to deal with our lives. In short, to have friends. You can't get along with everyone and you must find people whom you can confide and understand.

What is the goal of becoming a better person? I don't think 9s are particularly judgmental about how they contribute in the grand scheme of things often, though they may care it's not their main focus as you have shown.

My goal is to make significant contributions to the world, in my case, through politics. Why, because I think that humans have the task to keep the world going round and fine, just as every other being does. Being a better person will allow me to make such contributions, as it's not only through actions, but through attitudes and habits.

9s feel the best when they're at rest, but peacefulness and lack of conflict doesn't necessarily mean that. That just means nothing to create problems for you. You've shown a desire to stay productive and moving forward, so maybe the 9 typing is out of the question. What do you make of the deeper meaning to this?

Mmm, I don't think I understand your question. By "deeper meaning" you mean why do I want to stay productive and moving forward or what I do I understand by "peacefulness and lack of conflict"?

About sleeping
Don't we all?

Yeah, everybody does, but some people just seem it as a brief moment to rest and be ready to work again. I don't. I love to sleep a lot, as I get very tired easily 'cause I'm not physically active due to a hernia. I even fantasize the moment of sleeping, wishing to dream awesome stuff and recovering all my lost energy. Once I used to sleep 12 hours every day because I was tired. I even take naps when possible, and some people don't like it.

In contrast, for example, my father just sleeps for 4-5 hours and wakes up quite easily. In fact, he doesn't like to sleep a lot, just what's necessary.

Is this seeking security and having support as you mentioned in this post earlier? Or is it a matter of affection? It doesn't sound very 9-like because 9s are focused on just enjoying themselves and staying at peace.

Mmm, it's part of security and support seeking, but I also love to meet new people out of pure enjoyment. I like new people and socializing with them is extremely pleasurable to me, except when I don't know how to deal with them . In fact, I'm not that affectionate with people. I even put boundaries on how much trust, company, etc I'll have with them depending on how much I will get along with determined people and the person's personality.

To not fail while enjoying yourself. It may sound a bit 3ish but you've shown a distancing from this drive of ambition, so you aren't as driven as a 3.

I think it's a conflict between my 9 and 3 fixes. Most of my times I have a desire to succeed, but I admit it's not as intense as other people's. But there's still a desire of recognition and achievement.

9s have averse reaction to this because it is just something that stresses them out. Safe to say that you don't take on anxiety because of your demanded to take action that you prefer not to like a 9. You feel good when you push through your anxieties of taking action and act boldly maybe?

I don't feel good when I push through my anxieties. It's desperating, stressing and awakens some of my insecurities. But I see it as necessary, as something that at the end will make me more mature and conquer my fears and worries in a determined moment. Asserting myself in such situations will definately help me to achieve such a goal.
 

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I don't see over reactions or compulsive tendencies worthy of making him a 6 typing.


About sleeping
Don't we all?

Yeah, everybody does, but some people just seem it as a brief moment to rest and be ready to work again. I don't. I love to sleep a lot, as I get very tired easily 'cause I'm not physically active due to a hernia. I even fantasize the moment of sleeping, wishing to dream awesome stuff and recovering all my lost energy. Once I used to sleep 12 hours every day because I was tired. I even take naps when possible, and some people don't like it.

In contrast, for example, my father just sleeps for 4-5 hours and wakes up quite easily. In fact, he doesn't like to sleep a lot, just what's necessary.
Ya, RH says that 9s favorite activities are to be actually at rest or active yet not critically thinking. I think he referred to it as a daydream mode or something like that. This reflects a 9 tendency heavily.


Is this seeking security and having support as you mentioned in this post earlier? Or is it a matter of affection? It doesn't sound very 9-like because 9s are focused on just enjoying themselves and staying at peace.

Mmm, it's part of security and support seeking, but I also love to meet new people out of pure enjoyment. I like new people and socializing with them is extremely pleasurable to me, except when I don't know how to deal with them . In fact, I'm not that affectionate with people. I even put boundaries on how much trust, company, etc I'll have with them depending on how much I will get along with determined people and the person's personality.
Ya, that is how my brother who is a 9 acts.

9s are known to lack such motivation when you come across one who has learn to not be unmotivated sometimes it is hard to recognize. I lean towards 9 again.
 

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@Wake
And you didn't notice that he mentioned his hernia as being a cause behind the excessive sleeping?
Not all 6s have compulsive tendencies and not all 6s are overreactive (p6s can easily resemble 9s). 6w7s can appear dreamy, affable, easy going. It's the underlying anxiety that counts.

His answers show this contradictory dynamic and other points:
- "i over think, i know everything will be fine, BUT i worry that destiny may not help me"(6w7)
- "i am looking for guidance through research, advise (this is emphasized in his posts. 6w7 is more "other reliant" and tends to have these "friend committees" etc. whereby they actively seek others' opinions to guide their decisions)"
- "i am impulsive and easily altered (by that he means easily influenced or changed, malleable. 9 is actually a very stubborn type)" (6w7)
- he wants to improve, has drive (3 fix..but the 3 fix shows more in how he well he works his image of "goodness", "responsibility")
- the constant dissatisfaction with laziness, the desire to gain momentum and get things done (not indicative of core 9 given the bigger picture, but 6s connection to 9 [doi and dod get blurred for the attachment tried]; that active and conscious resistance of laziness is seen in integrating 9s, and an integrating 9 doesnt have the tendency to "overthink and fall into desperation". so, i can see strong 9 influences, but you have to look a lot harder Wake
-the emphasis on support and reliance on others is a common 6w7 theme
- he is "placing boundaries" on how much to trust new company ; he is affable and likes to meet new people for enjoyment as well (7 influence) overall, 6w7 is quite apparent in his responses
-conquering fears and worries part..very 6ish.

@MBTI Enthusiast
You spotted the 3w2 fix right. 3s have a compulsive need to succeed. it's not less than other people's desire to achieve as OP feels. 3s can be cut-throat competitive, and they know it. a disintegrating 3 might feel lazy, less competitive and so on, but I don't see any evidence of the 3s relationship with worth, issues with image (the core of the 3 fixation) in his answers. success, desire for admiration, on their own ..don't indicate core 3. The running themes in his answers are (1) goodness and social responsibility (2) security and avoidance of anxiety/worries (3) avoidance of laziness/inaction (4) seeking guidance.

Plus, there are a lot of superego messages in his post. A cursory reading gives a 3 or even 9 lol impression, but nope, he is neither a 9 nor a 3.
 

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Haha, I was meaning to question that hernia thing. My bad.

@Boss, I don't think he handles it in the same way as a 6 in terms of phobia. He seems to recognize some anxiety, but I don't think he centers his thoughts around it.
 

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You are exaggerating the extent to which 6s are aware of their own anxiety. Every good description points towards how 6s can be mostly or almost completely blind to the anxiety within. So, what makes you think every 6's questionnaire responses will be sprinkled with overly anxious undertones? That would be like turning the type into a caricature. I've pointed out many things to demonstrate the 6w7 fixation in his answers. So, nitpicking the anxiety just because he doesn't drop the word every 2 sentences and doesn't overemphasize the nerves part doesn't mean he isn't a 6w7. And, he previously typed as a 6. And, I think he was absolutely right about his typing. You need to do more than a surface reading of his responses.
 

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Okay, just an extra tidbit... I see you are ENFJ (even if more like XNFJ). According to this chart,


ENFJ 9s are very unlikely. I don't want to rule it out, but I called out Jawz for not being a 9, as well, and he is ENFJ, too, actually.

Also, we have the same tritype. I'm 9w1-3w2-6w5. You'd think we'd have almost identical thinking if you were 9w8-6w5-3w2. But there are several things in your posts that I don't see in myself. I'll go through them now, with red being my comments.

Main Questions

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?
Right now, I really don't know because I have a lot of things in mind. I agree that I don't know, but it's not because I have too much on my mind. It's because I have never thought about it before, or because I avoid thinking about the future. I can say that I want to finish college, read a lot of books, have professional experiences and contacts for my career in politics, which I want to become a Master on Government or Public Administration. The fact that you listed such detailed accomplishments as 'what drives you in life' is unlike me. Maybe you're just more aware, but I'm still at the "I want to be successful but I don't know how I'm going to do it" stage. I also want to provide my parents with a better home and, if I become a father, to be an excellent figure for my children. I don't relate to this. This must be your Fe.I can say that I look for excellence and success. I can say this as well... although peace is the number 1 priority obviously.

At the same time, while I'm very competitive and ambitious (traits that I consider very dangerous double edged swords), I'm only very competitive when I know I am good at something. If I don't stand a chance, I don't compete. Even if I am decent, I don't compete. I want to be very good or I don't worry about it. there's also moments in life where I just want to live a calm, peaceful life with friends and family. I want this all the time. :p No need to better myself, to compete or to be in constant pressure. I love peacefulness, truthfulness and a joyful environment. There are some times when I want to work as a fast food cashier or just a librarian. I don't believe I have those moments. :p But my monetary and personal ambitions stop me from that. I relate to this. I want to make changes in the world, through politics and its practice. Type 9s typically don't believe our efforts will make an impact on the world. I want to be successful, but it is a subjective view of success.

I also want to develop and excellent attitude and a healthy personality. Noble... Maybe it's my S that prevents me from feeling the need to improve myself. That started when I read Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. Despite being a product of its time, it showed to importance of making good and productive habits in life and making rational decisions.

I yearn for security and strong opinions too. Strong opinions? Please expand? I yearn for security, too. My career in politics deals with a lot of ideologies that my peers adopt and defend critically, but I just can't fit with any of them. What do you mean you can't "fit with them"? Do you not see their point of view? I think that ideologies aren't best applied for the entire world but country to country, each of them presenting particular economic, social, cultural and political issues. For such, I want and do read a lot of books, seek a lot of information, pay attention to classes and do everything to form my opinions, and defend them the best I can. High aspirations... maybe higher than me.

I can say that success drives me, So success drives you over not failing in life? but also the desire to live peacefully and calmly agree as well as a desire to make right and appropiate decisions. Agree... although I thought this came from my 1 wing.



2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?

I hope to work in government or NGOs and design projects for poor people. I hope to become an excellent human being, professional, friend, son and partner. I hope to experience the most of life and use that experience for productive ends. I hope to make theories about administration and government that will help people. I hope that these accomplishments make me happy and others happy. Again, very detailed... I would maybe be able to come up with two sentences here.

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?

I avoid envy, since I tend to be envious and competitive. I avoid envy because it is a pointless negative emotion to hold inside. If I know I will be envious of someone, I stop comparing myself to them in that manner. I love personal validation and praise, agree but I don't want that to be my main drive towards achieving my goals. My main drive is probably doing things I "should" do. Although this is probably my 1 wing. I want to avoid anxiety, to second guess myself, to think way too much things. Do not relate. I avoid anxiety naturally. The only times I get anxious are before exams that I KNOW I can do well on, and don't want to mess up. Most other times I can quench the anxiety. I want to be honest but not blunt, to act appropiatedly. Sure. I want to be a good person to people, but I don't want my goodness to be taken advantage of. Sure.I want to lead an active life, but my energy levels are low. Agree.I need to sleep a lot, and I hate that. You hate it? I sleep a lot and don't regret it.

Responsibility, commitment, Yes. hard work, confidence, Not really... cooperation, Only if you mean gaining peace by cooperation. I don't mind being independent. trustfulness, Yes. persistence, Not really... if I'm bad at something I usually give up. :p friendship, Not the first thing that comes to mind. solidarity, intelligence, tolerance, humbleness Agree. and openess Not really. are my core values.

4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?

Not doing the right decisions: that what I choose to do, the values I decide to live and the people that I choose to get together will just harm me and destroy me. I agree with the fear, but not the motivation. I am afraid of making mistakes purely because they are mistakes. I don't think that my values and people around me would not be "right."

Not being able to correct my mistakes. I am often harsh, imprudent and somewhat insecure, which makes me get into hot water a lot. I want to be able to ammend my mistakes and do good. Curious... I don't relate to this.

Not being independent. I want to take the course of my life, have financial autonomy and being able to deal with people and the world to my benefit and other's benefit. Agree. I want financial autonomy because I hate having to rely on or be indebted to others.

5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?
I want people to see me as a good person, a good professional and a good friend. I want people to depend on me, be seen as trustable and responsible. Yes. I want people to enjoy all the good attitudes and traits I have and help me correct all those that are not appropiate or right. Again, I have no desire to "correct" myself... I am who I am. I want people to think of me not as a rival, but as an ally, someone who knows will help them. I don't think anyone would ever see me as a "rival." I want to be respected for my knowledge, actions and judgement. Yes. I want to be the voice of reason and the peaceful resolution to conflicts. Yes.

I see myself as an ambitious person, with a lot of skills and abilities to achieve my goals. I would not consider myself ambitious, although I have skills and abilities. I see myself as intelligent and capable, but often distracted, absent-minded and somewhat doubtful of my intelligence. Yes. I see myself as a very responsible, mature person, who does his best to act appropiatedly and keep to his promises. Yes. Point of fact, I value responsibility more than intelligence, because there are a lot of people who aren't particularly gifted, not even in social intelligence, but they have a drive to do things right that makes them overcome their obstacles. Yes, I've always been envious of those drives... I get by on intelligence mostly. I see myself as an emotional person, sometimes my feelings difficulting my activities. Not really. I see myself as very naive and gullible, cause I haven't experienced a lot of things people my age have. Yes.

But above all, I know that all my flaws will be corrected and my virtues will make me do great things in life. I don't believe my flaws will all be corrected... I believe that I will have to live with some. It's something I know will happen. I have confidence in my future. I have confidence in the same sense as no one thinks they will be the one to a car crash. I haven't done anything wrong, therefore life should turn out okay. It's more of a disbelief that things could turn out badly than confidence.



6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?

What makes me feel best

My determination. Not a word I would use first about myself.
To have people who understands and supports me and viceversa. Again, not my first choice, but yes.
To know that I have developed myself and became a better person. I would be extremely proud of myself for doing that, but I don't think I can really improve all that much. I have a static mindset.
Peacefulness and lack of conflict. Number 1 for me, obviously.
When I sleep, because I love sleeping. Yes.
To hang out with people, and being able to connect with them. Yes.
To do something that I love and succeeding at it. Yes.
To assert myself (cause I'm not THAT assertive). No... asserting myself usually gives me anxiety because I am afraid that it will cause conflict.
To be honest even at complicated times. Sure.
Listening to music. Yeah.
Watching movies. Don't particularly like movies, but my fave TV shows, yes. What do you like about them? Do you constantly find new ones or watch old ones again and again?
Reading books. Yes. Because I love getting lost in them.

What makes me feel worst

My sloth and lack of drive sometimes. Yes.
My envy. Not at the forefront.
Some people's competitive and utilitarian attitudes. Not really?
Lack of responsability. In others? In yourself?
Failing at something because I didn't do a lot of effort or not doing what was right. Yes, failing sucks, but I usually rationalize it somehow.
Second guessing myself. I guess, but this isn't at the forefront.
Seeing all sides of a problem and not taking a stance. Quite 9ish... I agree.
Impatience and lack of tolerance. In others, it depends if I'm feeling the same way or not.
Hypocrisy. Sure.
People being rude and blunt using honesty as an excuse for their immature ways. Not at the forefront.
Any form of explotation. Sure.


7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.

Anger
I don't get angry easily, mostly it's shown through irritation. I don't like to be angry, cause when I am I become very explosive. I have never "exploded in anger", and I definitely suppress anger so that it comes out through sadness usually. Sometimes I use my anger or indignation towards goals in my life. Sometimes. I fear that my anger will destroy people, or that people will destroy me for expressing my anger. I fear that expressing my anger will create conflict and cause people to abandon me. What do you mean by "destroy me"? I want the appropiate use of anger, which I think is through assertiveness.

Shame
While I'm mostly shameless or counter-shame, my most common way of showing shame is through shyness. I am very extroverted and all of that, but there are times that I don't know how to approach certain people, so I become shy, fearing that I will be disliked for stupid reasons. However, there are times that I just don't give a shit and act the way I do with people, and if they don't like, I just distance myself and that's it. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. Where does the shame come in? Are you ashamed for who you are and thus think others won't like you, or ashamed that you don't talk to others sometimes? I also want to be respected, taken into account and be considered important and contributing, I'd be ashamed and angered if such things wouldn't be present in people, but if they do, I just walk away. I don't quite get the last part, but I don't think I relate. Perhaps reword this.

Anxiety

This has been a big enemy in my life. Most of my life's problems comes when I don't know how to deal with everyday's issues. Anxiety is triggered in me only once in a while. I am very open to suggestions, opinions and such, but that makes me doubt myself a lot. That's why I either investigate more and more on something or I just trust my instincts (something I have trouble to) and do what I have in my head. That makes me very cautious as well as very impulsive. I want to be independent and wise so I calm my anxieties and act. I don't think I relate to this. I don't think I have issues trusting my instincts.

I see my anxiety coming in my family. I am an only child and I lived in a somewhat overprotected environment. I'm not that street smart or worldly wise, so that's why I behave anxiously, fearing that I will make some stupid mistake. Curious... I lived a sheltered childhood, too, but I don't fear making a "street smart" mistake. I have inherited depression from my mom, and I have some symptoms of OCD, which further enhances my anxiety.

I am also aware of how unattentive or distracted I can be, so that's a source of behaving anxiously and over alert sometimes. Lol... at least being unattentive and distracted means you're at peace... why mess that up with anxiety?


8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.

Stress
I hate it, absolutely hate it. Not even on the "small, healthy doses". If there's something I dislike is to be pressured. I want things to go calm and smoothly, and solving problems and challenges with such calm that will enhance my power. When there's stress I tend to put an adrenaline rush in myself, so I will not fall into deep and unproductive over-worrying and do some action. I'm not unproductive because I worry too much. I am unproductive because I think there are so many other things to do that could make me happier in the moment. I like small, healthy doses of stress because it gets me off my butt. :p If there's a LOT of stress, then I seek for help, immediately.

Unexpected change
I don't like changes too, it angers me, especially when it's about commitments or responsiblities. Agree. I tend to get stressed for it, most of the times, so my reaction is the same as described above.

But when I see positive unexpected changes, I do feel really good, and I tend to see much more possibilities to even better the changes that have happened. Sure.

Conflict
I also dislike it, cause I like everything to be peaceful and calm, but I accept it when if the situation demands it. Conflict is almost always bad. I think discussions are conflict. Especially with significant others. For example, I will have fights with my parents and friends, I don't remember the last time I've had a verbal "fight" with my family and friends. Only thing I can remember is with an ex. but that's something that will surely happen. It's part of life to disagree, and deeply. I don't really agree with this. If I disagree deeply, I minimize it or don't express it, unless forced. So I take my stance and make a resolution as best as possible. If there's a conflict without any conciliation, then I think that problem ended and my interaction with that person too.

But for example, if I ask someone a question, and they respond me angrily because they thought it was stupid, then I do become angry and demand some respect. I would get irritated and probably leave. I don't need to deal with that stuff. I hate when people get angry for stupidities; but hey, people get angry for a myriad of reasons. So, it's very relative.

9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?

Authority
I want to be an authority figure to people. I want to be respected, considered, valued and I want my judgement to be appreciated and fair. I respect people who exercise their authority that way, who are also good role models. I deeply resent people who abuse their power, who wants to value themselves with their positions. They lose authority to me because they lose my respect, and authority must come with respect.
I tend to think that I can do better than them. I don't have much desire to be in authoritative positions.

Power
It's essential to life to have power, to have the ability to do things. I want to have power and to put it into good pratice. I want my goals to be done with such power that they become magnanimous. I also desire wealth, knowledge and physical strength, that will make me do the right thing. Power without good judgement just sucks. I don't want power, only power over myself. :D

10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?

Life is something beautiful and approachable, and people have to experience it to its fullest potential. That's it, to experience every single thing out of it, and enjoy it exactly the way it is. There are tough moments, and people who live under horrendous circumstances which makes them resent their lives, but life is an interconnection of various elements that must support one each other. That is why all sciences and disciplines come, because we are aware that life is made of a fragile reunion of webs and webs of elements, and whose actions have an impact on everyone. I guess... the whole network of support thing seems like 6+Fe. I don't mind being on an island supporting myself and maybe a few people close to me. :p

Humanity is an element of life itself. Our actions have an effect on life and our rationality must be conducted to improve life for its maximum enjoyment. Just as animals use primarily their instincts to make life go round, we are blessed with our reason and knowledge, which is our tool for happiness.

I don't think humanity is essentially evil. I know we are good, but we are sons of our time and circumstances, and we may do horrendous flaws due to that. But at the end of the day, it's up to us to see if we want to change. Not history, not anthropology, not genetics, but us. I believe humanity is primarily good.


I'll answer the optional questions later, as I'm hurried hehehe.
 

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You are exaggerating the extent to which 6s are aware of their own anxiety. Every good description points towards how 6s can be mostly or almost completely blind to the anxiety within. So, what makes you think every 6's questionnaire responses will be sprinkled with overly anxious undertones? That would be like turning the type into a caricature. I've pointed out many things to demonstrate the 6w7 fixation in his answers. So, nitpicking the anxiety just because he doesn't drop the word every 2 sentences and doesn't overemphasize the nerves part doesn't mean he isn't a 6w7. And, he previously typed as a 6. And, I think he was absolutely right about his typing. You need to do more than a surface reading of his responses.
Some of those things you call red flags for type 6 is simply human though like looking for advice, totally human. We're just so caught up in how anxiety is likely to shape him that we can see normal behaviors compared to type 6 behaviors. His desire connection to others was just about having friends, and people he could confide in. He has a sense of purpose and a level of drive, given his subject something on a big stage I could image those thoughts would arise. True, it isn't stereotypical of 9s, but it doesn't create certainty that hes not. He does show some real red flags in there pointing towards type 6, and they appear to be too serious to rationalize as typical in any sense.

@MBTI Enthusiast, thanks I see a lot of 6-like things in what you turned red, and also some 9-like things in there. I would agree he is probably too anxiety ridden to be a 9.
 

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Looking for advice is human. Everyone looks for advice at some point, but emphasizing guidance and support several times in a post goes beyond a mere universal human tendency and starts to provide specific clues into a type. I didn't say that just wanting friends and connecting with them indicated 6w7, but the dynamics of trust and support he described was indicative of 6. You need to place my comments within the framework of enneagram theory. Look up a 7 questionnaire like Dark Romantic's, for instance, and tell me if you see similar emphasis on seeking guidance and support from others. There are human tendencies, and there are conscious and unconscious tendencies to highlight certain things in one's answers that just can't be conflated with "oh, it's just human". We have needs in common, but not all needs are given the same priority by all types. That's the deciding factor.

As for certainty, I am certain he isn't a 9. MBTI Enthusiast has made some good comparative points from a 9 perspective.
 

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Looking for advice is human. Everyone looks for advice at some point, but emphasizing guidance and support several times in a post goes beyond a mere universal human tendency and starts to provide specific clues into a type. I didn't say that just wanting friends and connecting with them indicated 6w7, but the dynamics of trust and support he described was indicative of 6. You need to place my comments within the framework of enneagram theory. Look up a 7 questionnaire like Dark Romantic's, for instance, and tell me if you see similar emphasis on seeking guidance and support from others. There are human tendencies, and there are conscious and unconscious tendencies to highlight certain things in one's answers that just can't be conflated with "oh, it's just human". We have needs in common, but not all needs are given the same priority by all types. That's the deciding factor.

As for certainty, I am certain he isn't a 9. MBTI Enthusiast has made some good comparative points from a 9 perspective.
I grew tired of arguing the details of that. He probably is a 6 and I'm probably wrong.

I'll do a more thorough reviewing of posts to not overlook signs and miss the obvious, particularly because I intend to argue it. With a mere quick opinion without a follow-up it wouldn't matter so much.
 

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I'm back!! I was busy and I could only fast-read your replies.

@Boss , you made good points that even I couldn't see in myself. I was very unaware of my contradictory behavior and my constant search for allies/guides, especially because I am great at hiding my anxiety even to myself. If people would have slight knowledge about the enneagram, 6w7 wouldn't be an option to define me at all. I read typewatch's descriptions, and 1w9 does not fit me at all, I'm much more a 1w2, as I dislike to think in absolutist terms and I have a much more practical focus on applying my principles. My gut fix is mostly 9w1, and possibly 9w8, as I am a little bit more assertive than 9w1 descriptions and I have no trouble stepping in when things don't work right. But 9 is my gut fix, almost sure of it.

I have a question for you. As you mentioned, my hernia makes me physically inactive, thus I sleep a lot, and Wake thought that my excessive sleeping had to do with a 9 fix. But what about my symptoms of depression and OCD? Does anxiety disorders just make typing oneself more difficult; or they are a defining factor for your enneatype? I wonder this because disorders and mental illnesses are just treated on the less healthy levels decriptions of each enneatype, while not being treated on healthy or average levels.

@Wake , thanks for your insight too! I'm definately leading towards 6w7, but you spot my 9 fix very well. As I read the 1w2 decription, I will consider the possibility of being a 1, but 9 is 90% accurate to me.

@MBTI Enthusiast , thanks for your comparison, I see those things that don't fit with 9. The tritype of 3, 6 and 9 is the easiest to get confused, as these 3 types suppress their conscience of their wants and needs. When I said that I'm afraid that my anger will destroy me, I meant that I may cause people get much more angered at me and will try to make my life impossible or hard.

As for my instinctual variant, I'd say for type 6 sp/sx
 

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@jdmn ---- This has been an exceptional thread ... and I've enjoyed skimming it.

I'm no expert on Enneagrams [not yet, but getting there, because I've decided to learn independently and ignore most of everything everyone says on PerC] ... But I am an expert on what it's like to live my life as an ENFJ 3w2, or 3w4 [most likely 3w4] where it's been freaking filled with all kinds of dreams, hopes, goals, ambitions, successes, failures, proud achievements ---- and failures --- and humbling experiences ---- resilience --- coming back from the dead and continuously shaping and re-shaping myself in order to remain successful at what it is that I or others want me to be successful at.

I'm not sure if you're a Core 3 that's disintegrated to a 9, or a Core 9 who has a tendency to grow to a 3. Even though @MBTI Enthusiast has a hard time believing that ENFJ's can be 9's :p , there are still 2 on PerC : @Etherea and @PeaceOfMind.

There was a time when I was heavily relating to a 9 and even though I liked to believe that I was actually integrating from 6-->9 ---- I was in actuality disintegrating from 3 --> 9 ---- because I didn't want to believe that I was a core heart fix as I was hopelessly out of touch with my feelings. I had established my identity around what I did as a person - and that the appearance of being successful was more important than actual success. Having had my dreams, my ambitions dashed repeatedly [7 times got back up and became extremely successful before having had it ripped away from me because of my f***ing disability] that I didn't want to do anything in the world, and I was busy falsely projecting the persona of "seeking contentment over success" because success and achievement seemed unachievable. ---- But ... took me less than a month to realize that I could indeed become successful once again.

Also ... the fact that I am an absolute beast when it came to conflicts :p [I know that's stereotypical]. In fact, it took a 3 day epic shouting match with my brother-in-law to make me realize that there's no way in hell I'm a core 9.

So ... Keep in mind that if you're one of 6, 9 or 3, you're constantly moving around these three types because that's what the enneagram is ... it is a constant movement between the connections of your core type based on reactions to life circumstances [stressors].

However, that doesn't answer what is your core type? If you feel you're moving around this particular tritype, then even if your tritype is something else, your core is one of 3, 6 or 9.

As you know, a stressed 6 will resemble an unhealthy 3, but imo will consistently seek security to relieve anxiety and latch on to one or more authority figures for direction in order to integrate. [This is unsourced and based on personal introspection].

At the same time, a stressed 3 will go towards 9 ---- and from personal experience I can tell you that becoming catatonic for a 3 is not a pretty sight. Over-eating, over-indulging, self-pity, being stuck in unimportant details and trying to find some value/worth ---- Thoughts revolve around failure ---- but also at the same time big dreams about huge success ---- like suddenly winning the lottery ... or getting some sort of inheritance from a rich, dead uncle. Or at the same time suicide ---- I was reading the posts of another 3 on another forum recently, and he did talk about a 3 being pushed, or wanting to commit suicide after failure, or being hopeless of becoming successful ever again. For a 3 to have to live on crumbs, and not be at least considered successful is almost unthinkable. "Average", or "Above average" just doesn't compute. At least not to me. I always have to find something or the other to be "the best" at.

Things like "I went to the best business school in the country", "My first job was at the first international Business Channel", "My second job was at the best TV Channel in the Country" ... So .. for me, achievement of being part of the best, even if I wasn't the best at what I did made me feel deserving and worthy of the praise and admiration that came with holding that kind of position. At times even being number 2 isn't good enough. I was offered a job at Philips .. and I turned it down because at the same time I had the offer from the best TV Channel. I went against what I really wanted to do - and went after what made me most admirable and gave me the best option to brag about.

However, true reversion to original state of confidence upon receiving that admiration and respect ... 3's are very much rooted in the desire to be loved --- but not wanting to be rescued like most 4's, or depended upon like most 2's. Most 3's loved to be loved for what they do and what they accomplish and not even who they are - because who they are deeply intertwined with what they do.

Once that admiration and love is achieved .... a 3 will either continue doing what made him/her successful, and start planning to take charge of his/her life once again by making very specific goals on how to get there.

Getting "there" [regardless of where "there" is specifically - because the end goal is achievement and/or success of some kind] is at times more important than the actual destination. It's not uncommon for a 3 to get so caught up in visions of success that they feel extremely unsatisfied and unfulfilled after reaching a destination .. only to realize that it wasn't as grandiose as it was meant to be. 3's are about the end, and not always about the means to an end. Most 1's are more meticulous about the details, whereas most 3's wouldn't mind cutting a few corners.

Also ... masks ... masks ... masks ... like I said ... appearance is important .. and sometimes most 3's have a tendency to bury themselves in so many masks that when they finally take them off, they even shock themselves with the dirt that has accumulated beneath. It takes a very strong 3, with the determination to actually accept the existence of those masks to even realize that those masks were there in the first place. In fact, my ex fell in love with one of the masks ... and after 2 years into the marriage, I was like ... "You don't love me, you only love my wealth and status!"

I didn't want to accept those masks ... But I did ... in fact, my current SO helped me take them off ... but I'm glad ... even though I didn't really like what was underneath ... My current SO loves me without my masks ... and in doing so, she's given me absolute freedom to finally let go of all the "human doings" and be a "human being". That said ... Not chasing down some sort of achievement goes against my nature ... I still revert to chasing after something big the moment I have an opportunity - without any care or regard of my safety and well-being.

So .... if you've managed to read through the above ... and if I haven't made too many wrong generalizations, and you can relate --- then welcome to the 3 club. If not .. then I'm going to suggest to you to seriously consider 6, or 9 as your core :p
 

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@Jawz , I identify will mostly all your points. Yes, I hate to be average, I want to be excellent, if not the best. However, I'm kinda scared of success, as I don't want that to corrupt me and my behavior. I think that if I will do better and healthier if I focus on excellence despite being or not being successful. But, I don't want to be the best on every single aspect of my life, because I know I won't be good at all. I will specialize in what I choose and learn what's necessary for the rest. I also think that I'm not destined to tremendous success, as I don't think I can handle too much pressure (for example, I know I will die of exhaustion if I'm President of Ecuador). I didn't actively search for success until my mid-teens, when I saw that I had so much potential to give.

However, there's still a very, very strong presence of anxiety in me. Anxiety in enneagram sense (constant questioning, gathering knowledge to feel secure, not facing problems directly, asking for advice etc). I also suffer from mild depression and OCD, so there's a possibility that my "anxiety" is just a response from a mental illness, and thus it may difficult the discovery of my true ennea-type.

I can just say that, I'll go to 3 club but just as an special guest hahaha.
 

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@Jawz , I identify will mostly all your points. Yes, I hate to be average, I want to be excellent, if not the best. However, I'm kinda scared of success, as I don't want that to corrupt me and my behavior. I think that if I will do better and healthier if I focus on excellence despite being or not being successful. But, I don't want to be the best on every single aspect of my life, because I know I won't be good at all. I will specialize in what I choose and learn what's necessary for the rest. I also think that I'm not destined to tremendous success, as I don't think I can handle too much pressure (for example, I know I will die of exhaustion if I'm President of Ecuador). I didn't actively search for success until my mid-teens, when I saw that I had so much potential to give.

However, there's still a very, very strong presence of anxiety in me. Anxiety in enneagram sense (constant questioning, gathering knowledge to feel secure, not facing problems directly, asking for advice etc). I also suffer from mild depression and OCD, so there's a possibility that my "anxiety" is just a response from a mental illness, and thus it may difficult the discovery of my true ennea-type.

I can just say that, I'll go to 3 club but just as an special guest hahaha.
You're surprisingly self-aware. A lot of people who've been typed as 6, especially, jump to accepting a 3 suggestion immediately. But, you seem to realize that despite your desire for success and excellence (and 3s are not the only types who want to be successful. there are plenty of highly successful 6 musicians, actors, intellectuals, athletes..you name it) you don't share the core motivations of a 3. The bolded statement is very anti core 3. 3s do NOT fear corruption, resulting from success. This is a superego message that contradicts core 3. With the anxiety thing, there was a lot more to my 6 reasoning for your type than anxiety. Read my earlier posts and MBTI Enthusiast's response from a 9 perspective. The medical anxiety point is a good one. Still, you're far close to your type dealing with 6 and 9 than bringing in 3 as core into the mix. It is definitely your heart fix, though.

My previous impression hasn't changed, but keep an open mind to 6 even though you type as a 9 currently.
 
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