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Sometimes I'm so rigidly against materialism, and so focused on experiences.. I think it can leave me a little groundless at times.

For example, I won't buy things for the comfort of my life. I like gaming in my spare time, but I'm very reluctant to spend much money buying games, yet I will spend £1000s on travel and social experiences every year, and even then I am reluctant to ever choose comfort, I'll choose the uncomfortable hostels with the social atmospheres and instead of eating at nice restaurants I'll walk random markets until my feet blister looking for cheap local traditional foods that most people wouldn't find. My mom sent me one of my favourite birthday presents ever which was a really comfortable bathrobe and slippers, and it was definitely a sign of my growing age that I was so happy with it.

Whenever I make a choice, I'll have a clear list of priorities, where first I will think about the experience, next I will think about the price, and then comfort and convenience are like a secondary afterthought for me.

I dunno, this stuff worked perfectly for me when I was 19, but I'm not made of rubber and magic anymore. I want to be true to myself, and if that means accepting my nature as it begins to age a bit and compromising a bit, I'd like to have that self-awareness. What do you guys think? I think some part of me will always be like this a little, but should I change my attitude a bit? How about how this stuff changes for you as you've gotten older?

You know what my most exciting purchase this time was? Incense sticks. I bought an incense stick holder and everything, and I'm unbelievably excited to have my room smelling all aromatic. Like wtf is age doing to me lol.
 

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It’s getting redundant to say “I relate”. Good thread, Tridentus.
My big concern lately with my anti-materialism is that for some people their “stuff” seems to give them some self-esteem or communicate who they are. I don’t mean in the “I’m rich— look at my stuff” way which I don’t know if I’d ever appreciate. I mean in the “Here’s my photo album. I love old movies so I have Ingrid Bergman all over my walls. I love Harry Potter so I have ‘I solumnly swear I am up to no good!’ As a sticker on my car.” Should I do that too?
I have a love/hate relationship with pictures, they make me cringe and I hate that nostalgic feeling. But when I see a friend with Old movie posters (which I love, esp. Ingrid Bergman) and Harry Potter stuff, then I wonder if something is wrong with me in my self-esteem department. I should proclaim who I am with STUFF? And my kids should proclaim who they are with stuff, right? There is nothing around me that signals or shows off who I am. I mean, I’m not materialistic and I kind of dislike brand-loyalty in general, but I wonder if this level also makes it so my kids feel they don’t know what they like that is cool.....except I reallly can’t be doing such a bad job there— the kids are amazing.

So I don’t own my favorite movies or CDs (which has kind of worked for me since Netflix and before that Napster (I’m old...man those were good times with Napster!).
In conclusion I should get a Harry Potter bumper sticker, but who would trade the vacations or the money that I spend learning or 8mproving myself? You know what? It all makes perfect sense.... i’’lol let it be...and maybe hang the painting I did of Ingrid Bergman up in the hall..
 

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Not advocating for materialism at all (I'm extremely immaterialistic myself), but just probing: What about immaterialism draws you?

Or is it that we're going by a negative dynamic: Is it that materialism repels you (and in that construct there's no other place to go but immaterialism)?
 
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Sometimes I'm so rigidly against materialism, and so focused on experiences.. I think it can leave me a little groundless at times.

For example, I won't buy things for the comfort of my life. I like gaming in my spare time, but I'm very reluctant to spend much money buying games, yet I will spend £1000s on travel and social experiences every year, and even then I am reluctant to ever choose comfort, I'll choose the uncomfortable hostels with the social atmospheres and instead of eating at nice restaurants I'll walk random markets until my feet blister looking for cheap local traditional foods that most people wouldn't find.
Sounds like disconnection with Fi or something.
 

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Yes. I know what you mean.

When I was younger, I thought I could do anything. And I could do it for nothing. I used to walk 8 miles to and from town, just so I didn't have to spend £3 something on the bus fare. Infact I still have the same pair of dm's that I used to walk in, ten years later. I bought them second hand. I have them on right now, actually. Lol. I still refuse to buy a new pair, even though these ones have holes in now.
I would not think twice about sleeping rough or not sleeping at all. I almost dared myself to see how far I could go. How much fun could I have without spending a penny.

I think a lot of this aversion to wasting money and applying unnecessary physical effort is to do with our belief in independence.

I'm 28 now, and I think I still do this to some degree. Though now I LOVE having a tidy room and using things like incense lol. If I buy a candle, it can't be some weird tacky candle that you can get from any old shop, it has to be natural beeswax or something annoying like that. I don't like having too many options when it comes to shopping as I just feel overwhelmed by the choices. I also hate consciously joining in with capitalism in any way. I don't eat meat or buy all the snacky shit thats in your face. I feel it's unnecessary and if I purchase it, I feel bad for some reason...

I also maintain this independence by not relying on my boyfriend at all financially. Even if that means I'm going to have to struggle. I like it to be equal. If he spends more I start to feel uncomfortable.
Mmm.. I also hate going to restaurants as I think it's a waste of money and I don't like people waiting on me.

I think having some things that are comforting will be good for you. Slippers and incense is not frivolous or a waste of money. Both are going to help you relax and therefore, you will feel more refreshed for when you go out and experience :) Only you know where you want to draw the line with your comfort. And I'm sure that line will move around, naturally :)
 
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I'm wondering how many ENFPs love incense, me too, I wander into those spiritual shops and always leave with incense because it's cheap joy... I'd probably buy some of the larger things if I could justify it.

I recently come to a realisation that I've been mostly wearing clothes that I was wearing in my teenage years... So I've been trying to break the mentality of refusing to buy things... Every so often you just have to think you deserve to spend a little on you even if it goes against your ideals of 'need' vs 'want'.

Saving more money for experiences is my ideal though. But I'll happily spend more than you do on those experiences, that's where my money is allowed to go. Fancy restaurants in other countries is a different experience too, I understand what you mean though, you want to keep three experience authentic, me too, I'm not spending more money on a meal I can get at home.
 
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I'm frugal too. I don't like to spend money.

What I do spend, tho, often goes to entertainment -- books, movies, music. I whine about having to spend $20 on a movie I love, but I still do it, and it gives me many hours of enjoyment. I have no problem making my home comfortable, but hesitate to spend large amounts of money to do it.

I don't spend a lot on experiences, either, though... people ask me to go on trips and I say no, because I suspect I'll feel nothing at the other end / have no interest in travel just for its own sake. I have to be DOING something, I can't just vacation. I get bored.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Not advocating for materialism at all (I'm extremely immaterialistic myself), but just probing: What about immaterialism draws you?

Or is it that we're going by a negative dynamic: Is it that materialism repels you (and in that construct there's no other place to go but immaterialism)?
I think there are maybe a few angles. One of the obvious things is just that materialism costs money, and I'd just rather use that money to access experiences I value. Then there's also an aspect where I fear that materialism would kind of lead from one thing to another, and I'd eventually get so sucked in that it would change my fundamental identity. I would have to go pretty far for that to happen at this point, but that is something I'm wary of. Other people lead that kind of life and seem just fine with it though.

There's that idea where people say you think buying something will make you happy, but after you get it you just want the next thing, and that idea has always stuck with me. Experiences may be temporary too, but at least they also add something permanent in both enriching me and in memories that I'll have forever.

But yeah, lately my comfort needs/wants are getting a bit higher than what they used to be, that's why I'm re-evaluating.
 

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I don't think that's a problem. Being immaterialistic has put me in contact with what really matters in life. Yes, I have lost a couple possessions because of my not being very attentive and I hope it won't ever lead me into being in trouble, but I don't think that's such a big problem. People over dramatize that stuff. Like my parents have always made me feel terrible for these kind of things because they get all nervous and cought up. I can't fathom that some people are afraid of getting their new shoes dirtied while if I express my concern about serious things like health matters they think I'm over doing it. Someone needs to look over their priorities.
I know though at times when I worry I am dramatic cause I don't know about you, but being an ENFP I have a lot of imagination that sometimes creates the worse scenarios plus I really care about life so I get worried.
Don't look for the ordinary look for the magic!
 

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Interestingly, I seem to be the one on the outs here. I have no problems spending money on clothing or stuff I like, provided they are a good deal. You will hardly ever see me buying any decor or clothing retail.

That's probably because I grew up in the antique business. Antique dealers only buy from each other when the other has something exceptional they want, and will give it to them for a reasonable price. The rest of the time, antique dealers are at auctions, flea markets, and estate sales. So guess where I buy stuff? Estate sales, secondhand stores, etc. Basically, I have expensive taste, but I get a lot of satisfaction out of finding something special for well below what it's worth.

Interior decorating goes hand in hand with antique dealers, so that one kind of falls in the hobby category.

As for spending money on experiences, it depends on what it is and whether I consider it replaceable. I would say I'm picky about that one.

I'm highly likely to spend money on project equipment if I see it for a reasonable price, too, even if I have no intentions of starting it right away. That way I have it for later and can start a project when I feel like it. Example: Paper, oil paints, buttons, etc.
 

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And then an INFJ chimed in: I'm tendentially an ascetic, via Stoicism; but when I do deign to want something material, I want the best.

[Looks over what he has just written.] Oh, hell. As usual, I'm at both extremes. :rolleyes:
 
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It's important to me to support the creators I like.

I have a collection of 66 music CDs and 4 LPs, 1 EP and 2 cassettes. I stopped buying new ones because of all the shit I got from musicians in my apartment block, though.

I have a library with books and comics books and manga. Many of the books are unread because my ability to read books has seriously deteriorated due to all the extreme stress I go through lately.

I don't have much movies because they are way too expensive here. Prices are set for western workers whose work is falsely considered to be worth several times more than ours.

It's important for me to buy myself stuff because it's a sort of a compensation for how awful life is and how evil/degenerate most of people are. There were moments when I tried saving money, but usually after a few weeks the suffering would just become unbearable.

It's important for me to have things to occupy my mind with - mainly the internet. Comfort and nutrition are also very important to me so I hate traveling.

I used to go on trips to various quarries to hunt for fossils when I was in primary school but after I got IBS and undiagnosed hemorrhoids I could no longer stay away from toilet for so long. Also, I got sick of Jurassic sea fossils.

I'm very poor. The last time I was on vacations was in 2001 when I went to a sanatorium in hopes of getting help with my health problems. Didn't work.
Then my life basically collapsed. My mother's business got much less profitable because there was a massive over-production of real estate appraisers and suddenly a company that was bringing decent income started getting poverty-level incomes.

My father haven't increased child support since 1996 despite that until 2003 value of that money has decreased 2x due to inflation.

Then a disaster struck - in 2003 I failed class again due to having over 50% absences and I had to move to a weekend highschool due to health problems.

My father basically started having demented normie delusions about me and said that I should go to work since I'm no longer in day school and stopped paying child support.

Even in 2003, before the neo-nazi attacks of 2005 I had symptoms of trauma that made learning much more difficult.

Psychological examination indicates above average intellectual level, disharmonious development.

Especially significant deficits were detected in language abilities and general informations (which can be connected to frequent absences at school) and graphomotorical skills of the patient. Psychological examination has shown significant deficits in durability of memory traces in fresh visual memory of patient, ability to focus at will and eye-motion coordination.

The deficits indicate presence of organic damage of the central nervous system of the patient.

An incorrectly formed, emotionally dis-regulated personality, incorrect internalisation of social norms (that probably refers to poor school attendance and performance, which was due to symptoms. Jesus Christ, why do psychologists have to be so fucking dumb?) and very high level of generalized anxiety, manifested in numerous somatic symptoms significantly limiting the functioning of the patient (everyday diarrhoea (which recently turned out to be caused by haemorrhoids), shaking body) was detected.

Due to the above anxiety disorders the patient could the patient couldn’t continue studying in day mode (long absences on somatic anxiety disorders background caused failing next classes).

Currently the patient is continuing studying in weekend high school.

Conclusions:

Due to emotional state the patient isn’t qualified to take up work.
I never got a compensation for damage done to me or any financial help. Everyone just turned their backs on me except for my mother.

So me and my mother sued for increase of child support due to loss of income and inflation, so that I could survive and continue my education. A murderous psychopath judge family court first took away the child support and decided that I have to work, despite that I wasn't fit to work and needed to move to a weekend school because my health state didn't allow me to attend to day school.
Normies always had these demented fantasies about me.

In 2003 and 2004 there were actually days when I didn't have food to eat. These murderous subhuman beasts were literally trying to starve me just because I was subjected by them to psychological liquidation.

At that time we started getting into debt. These were the worst times. Later most of time even if there wouldn't be enough work for my mother's company, we wouldn't allow malnutritions due to credit cards. We have lots of debt. But I should have been receiving disability pension and/or help from people all that time.

It was better or worse through the following years. In 2005 I was attacked by neo-nazi two times and my health and memory has worsened again. I haven't mastered any complex skill since then. I had violent nightmares for two years and felt constantly under threat when outside.

In 2006 I went to England to my uncle in London because I was supposed to get a job. I didn't get even a single interview and after two months I went back to Poland.

Anyway, I told it how it was many times.

I had most work in 2008-2011. When I was working for my mother's company. Since 2008 I drafted 1300 plans of apartments and additionally about 1000 plans of basements.
2008-2011 I drafted over half of these.

I used to collect vintage video games back then. Stopped when the 2012 catastrophe happened.

Then in 2012 my life collapsed again, as we lost major source of work, I had to resign from college because I couldn't afford tuition and couldn't study at all due to all the terror these animals have subjected me to. We were close to paying off the debt in 2011, maybe a few years and we'd be free, but our debt increased drastically in 2012.
Couldn't get any job. The peak jobseeking moment was two years ago when I went on job interview. And they literally invited hundreds upon hundres of people for 25 positions in cleaner company. Complete insanity. There were these hordes of people waiting and coming for appointment after appointment and we realized how fucked up it is. Obviously no one would help me. Everyone wanted me dead. I didn't even know back then that people should help me because I wasn't enlightened like I'm now.

Then I was trying to get paid internships in IT sponsored by EU. But they were basically looking for free experienced workers. They weren't supposed to look for experienced people but were demanding experience anyway.

2017 was the first year since 2011, I had relative stability March to October. In November there was uncertainty about future. On 20th November there was that public procurement which we lost and it turned out there won't be work for me first half of year. So, it's very bad.
The situation before was so terrifying that I was unable to study normally - while I managed to pass a computer building, repair and maintenance exam in 2015, I failed the web development and network administration exams in the beginning of 2017.

So, eventually, one day there won't be enough work and credit cards will run out and food will be about to run out and filthy starvation worshippers that wanted me dead will finally win. Probably in 2018 or maybe somewhere later.

I'll sit on my bed, I'll put Fallout box and Nausicaa Of The Valley of Wind boxed set before me, so that I'd see them when I'll be dying.
I'll listen to some music to put myself into mood - probably some songs by Evanescence, then Korn - Alone I Break. The final song I'll listen to will be Charlie by Milla Jovovich. I'll put it on repeat. After the first playthrough, I'll cut my brachial artery with my Fairbairn-Sykes commando dagger. Will lose consciousness in 14 seconds, die in 1 and 1/2 minute. The end.

Not the end I wished for, but starvation worshipping social darwinist subhumans have decided that I have to die, so it will be better than starvation.

In last moments of life I'll be listening to my favourite singer and looking at my precious items. Perhaps in last moments I'll be holding Fallout 1 manual in my hand and Ian Watson's Space Marine on my lap. It will be a noble death.
 

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I'm a rather materialistic ENFP, I love comfort and things. It seems to make me easily get along with fellow ISFJs who often share this taste for Lush cosmetics, cooking, fashion and vintage clothing etc. That being said, even though I often buy clothes and books, most of my spendings go to "immaterial" stuff, like train and public transportation, concerts, clubs & bars, museums, various events.
If only I could teleport myself, I'd live a really cheap life ! So many enjoyable things are free. Walking in the forest with a friend, watching birds in the wild, feeling the warm sun on your skin in the summer, swimming in a lake (can be free sometimes), exercising (just need the floor and your body to do burpees, squats etc), meeting new people, drawing, writing, reading books at the library, going to conferences and seminars in universities, listening to music (thanks Internet)...

So yeah in short, whether it be sensory experiences or intellectual stimulation, most of what I enjoy is somewhat free. I do care for physical stuff, I think it's important to be in touch with one's body and to take care of it. To me, exercising one's sense of smell is part of it. As a big fan of smells and fragrances, I like incense too ! But I prefer the smell of coffee and, above all, this of pine trees :proud:
 

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I'm a rather materialistic ENFP, I love comfort and things. It seems to make me easily get along with fellow ISFJs who often share this taste for Lush cosmetics, cooking, fashion and vintage clothing etc. That being said, even though I often buy clothes and books, most of my spendings go to "immaterial" stuff, like train and public transportation, concerts, clubs & bars, museums, various events.
Mmmm, it's interesting. I don't really see Lush cosmetics, cooking and vintage clothing very materialistic! We all need those kinds of things, and you have picked relatively "ecofriendly" choices! I love all those things too :) And especially books! I think it's important to expand your mind and a book is a great way to do this. I like having a small amount of possessions, but for some reason, I could never part with the books I own...

If I was going to buy Chanel cosmetics or clothes from non-ethical chain stores - then I would feel bad.

p.s pine tree smell is beautiful :D
 

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@0rgans haha indeed, I guess my definition of "materialistic" is rather restrained by my way of living. I reduced its meaning to material, physical stuff (objects), and not necessarily superficial stuff that costs a lot of money (big cars, big houses, big computer, apple watch and other high tech gadgets). Whereas, in fact, many things that could be included into materialistic values are actually virtual, immaterial (money, trade market, brands, some services etc).

I totally agree about books ! and they're mostly "immaterial" anyway - what really matters is the text, the thoughts and ideas, and not the paper and ink (but when you own hundreds of them, of course you end up having to take their materiality into account and leave space for them... unless you have a Kindle (which I don't, I hate reading on a screen.))

Ikr ! This delicious smell of needles and resin, sweating from the branches under a blazing sun ! :love_heart:

Now I think about it, do other ENFPs share my dream of living in a tiny house ? It seems so cool, it totally pushes to reconsider what is actually necessary and what isn't, and their design is often lovely. It must be so great to be woken up by the sunlight through a small window just by your head !

 

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I agree on books, and it's so cool to hear that's true for you guys. I do own books and could never part with books and "book" was my first word according to my parents. So those are definitely around me and probably show a lot of who I am.
@mangosloth I wanted the Swiss family Robinson house BIG time growing up.
 
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Interestingly, I seem to be the one on the outs here. I have no problems spending money on clothing or stuff I like, provided they are a good deal. You will hardly ever see me buying any decor or clothing retail.

That's probably because I grew up in the antique business. Antique dealers only buy from each other when the other has something exceptional they want, and will give it to them for a reasonable price. The rest of the time, antique dealers are at auctions, flea markets, and estate sales. So guess where I buy stuff? Estate sales, secondhand stores, etc. Basically, I have expensive taste, but I get a lot of satisfaction out of finding something special for well below what it's worth.

Interior decorating goes hand in hand with antique dealers, so that one kind of falls in the hobby category.

As for spending money on experiences, it depends on what it is and whether I consider it replaceable. I would say I'm picky about that one.

I'm highly likely to spend money on project equipment if I see it for a reasonable price, too, even if I have no intentions of starting it right away. That way I have it for later and can start a project when I feel like it. Example: Paper, oil paints, buttons, etc.
Oh my gosh! My husband would laugh at this! We just got a super good deal on a rug. I almost have to feel like I'm getting something really nice dirt cheap! Are you guys good at finding what you need on craigslist and at yard sales and stuff? I'm really good at it. I'm looking for a new piano right now.... and to me, there's hardly anything besides books that you could get that would be more worth money than a musical instrument for the kids and me! Oh, art supplies too.... I mean I do spend money if it means it is my creative outlet, that's just like experiences and travel too to me. Also, gardening-- but I like finding good deals on all that too.
 

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And then an INFJ chimed in: I'm tendentially an ascetic, via Stoicism; but when I do deign to want something material, I want the best.

[Looks over what he has just written.] Oh, hell. As usual, I'm at both extremes. :rolleyes:
This resonates with me on a spiritual level, lol.
 
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Oh my gosh! My husband would laugh at this! We just got a super good deal on a rug. I almost have to feel like I'm getting something really nice dirt cheap! Are you guys good at finding what you need on craigslist and at yard sales and stuff? I'm really good at it. I'm looking for a new piano right now.... and to me, there's hardly anything besides books that you could get that would be more worth money than a musical instrument for the kids and me! Oh, art supplies too.... I mean I do spend money if it means it is my creative outlet, that's just like experiences and travel too to me. Also, gardening-- but I like finding good deals on all that too.

Yes!! books, musical instruments and nature related stuff are the best things to purchase as they facilitate an experience and broaden your knowledge. I also have quite a bit of art and stationery stuff. But I need to give them away as I don't do that anymore. I'm trying to focus on writing and guitar only... An ENFP focusing on only 2 things? Is that possible? We'll see...
 
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haha i can relate to this so hard. I can come off cheap/frugal because of this. but i have certain things i would spend extra money on and things that i would rather go cheap with.
 
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