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Too nice

3K views 42 replies 18 participants last post by  Dezir 
#1 ·
Women have said this a lot to men that their too nice, not to me though. What is too nice.
 
#2 ·
To every woman it's a different thing. I've never said it to any man. But I've heard it usually means that they're not attracted to a man for several reasons. It can be he is too sensitive, too weak, too feminine, too caring and so on. It doesn't make sense in general but some women don't like these traits and are maybe into bad guys, macho men etc.
 
#3 ·
I would say that "too nice" with a negative connotation often means "I can't see you as an equal, because you put me on a pedestal too much". Sure, it's "nice" if someone tries to always look out for you first and read every desire from your eyes, but it's also really concerning for several reasons:

1. We all need to be focused on self-preservation for some part and a person who always puts someone else first isn't necessarily someone that screams "I can be trusted to take care of myself and my own wellbeing"
2. Most people are not willing and able to give that much back to another person, so always being put first can cause feelings of guilt.
3. It feels like you are dealing with an overbearing parent rather than another adult. (If the other people is looking out for your wellbeing a lot)
4. It can invade one's privacy. (Sure, it's "nice" that someone cares about you enough to want to listen to all your problems and help you fix them, but in a lot of situations, we just don't want that help)
5. It can create an unhealthy dependence and can often come with clingyness.

So in general, I'd draw the line for "too nice" at the point where the person is either repeatedly going out of his way, maybe disadvantaging himself, to be of service to a girl or consistently offering help in a way that is intrusive to her privacy or autonomy.
Of course, that is the rather unhealthy description of "so nice that it's harmful already" and some girl might use "too nice" just for someone that it not their type. In that case, I'd say that it's just preference, but it would maybe be good to take a look inside yourself, how far from the "harmfully too nice" line you are.
 
#11 · (Edited)
One of the factors of being "too nice" (I mean firstly when someone posts a thread like this, it's not possible to really frame precisely what they mean without being there to see it or at least having the person go into a lot of detail, but I'll just go with the broad way this term is used)- as a guy, is that if you're too nice to women it suggests a certain lack of competitive and assertive backbone.

What I mean by that is that it suggests in an evolutionary sense that when the going gets tough, people/situations are challenging you (which is a normal thing that happens in the world like it or not) and you need to be competitive in order to fight for something a woman will read that as a sign that you would prefer just to fold to get along. If you're just willing to be that nice to her when you're interested in her without actually getting to know her, because no matter how much of an angel you think she is, she's capable of behaving badly because she's a human being, and she knows that. She's also not a child who needs unconditional tender love and care, she needs to be challenged to an extent to be better than what she is now, again like all people do. It's about balance, and if you're being called "too nice" chances are you're skewed too far in one direction just like some people are too skewed in the assertive direction.

Also women tend to be more nurturing, and regardless of the reason that you think that might be, the fact is that a relationship is a partnership where together you can form a unit to balance each other out in some way. You're both flawed human beings (that's part of human nature), but if you can balance each other out while working together it makes your partnership more effective.

Women are different though. They all have different ranges of preferences relating to this, but it's probably more like a bell curve so if you're someone who is typically nice to get along and avoid conflict you're just going to probably have fewer options since the average of the bell curve is the most common. You can and should still be a nice (I prefer "good") person, but do it with some backbone and self-pride.

I don't phrase things this way to be unkind, quite the opposite. I try to write what I think is useful information that can actually actively help rather than telling you "it's all ok there's no such thing as being too nice". At the same time don't use that as a reason to be a douchebag though that won't help you one bit.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I think I've been called "so nice" more than "too nice" but regardless I just take those as simple compliments that they think I'm very friendly. If we're dating then of course, it can be hard not to be extra friendly and romantic with them because I love them and they're being extra nice back to me too.

What's too nice though? When it feels suspicious and manipulative.... disingenuous.... Hard to explain but I know it when I feel it.
 
#15 ·
It's really impossible to answer this.

I've never told anyone they are "too nice," and the only people I can think of who would match that would be women I've known.

And that is because they were putting everyone else's needs above their own--so for their own benefit, they seemed like they needed to set clearer boundaries and communicate them, and to really spend time thinking about what they wanted.

I also haven't heard women say that about men.

I've seen women who distrust men who seem to be trying to make too much of an effort to appear super nice, and it seemed ingenuine.

But in general, I imagine someone who is "too nice" would be someone who needs to work on finding their own boundaries, and politely communicating those boundaries in a respectful way. But that's something a lot of people have to work on--especially for more successful relationships.
 
#19 ·
Someone who is too nice is someone who puts other people's wants before their own needs. This is someone you can take advantage of but cannot rely on long term, because sooner or later they're personal value will plummet due to self-neglect and they will be nothing but dead weight to the poor unfortunate soul that lets them get attached.

But a woman will never say this to a man she respects. She will either make up for his shortcomings by taking care of his needs, or communicate it in a way that won't hurt his confidence as a man. It's only when a woman has zero respect for a man that she will be patronising or blunt.
 
#21 · (Edited)
But a woman will never say this to a man she respects. She will either make up for his shortcomings by taking care of his needs, or communicate it in a way that won't hurt his confidence as a man. It's only when a woman has zero respect for a man that she will be patronising or blunt.
lol wtf. Are you also speaking for all women? Sometimes a when a woman thinks a guy is too nice and says a guy is too nice, she literally means what she says. Meaning, she probably thinks the person is being too nice and that's making things awkward or may seem disingenuous or perhaps she's looking for different qualities in a guy. That's really not an insult or something to be worried or offended about. It's okay to have preferences and not everyone is going to be compatible with one another.
 
#22 ·
It means you use proper grammar too frequently.
 
#23 ·
@Scoobyscoob

Really? You're gonna ask something that stupid? In case I gave you the impression that I've conducted extensive studies on the subject, let me make it clear now. I'm speaking from experience. Limited experience. Which is what I imagine you and everyone else here is doing. So, no. I'm not speaking for every woman.

And I think you've got it twisted. I've never heard of a woman rejecting a guy by saying he's too nice. I've heard of women saying their man is too nice and basically using it as an excuse to treat him like shit. Maybe you're right. Maybe women do reject guys and then go through the awkwardness of justifying themselves to a guy they rejected who for whatever reason decided to hang around long enough to hear an explanation. It's just not my experience or anything I've heard of until now.
 
#24 ·
Just shutup and stop trying to give shitty advice would be my non-polite answer then. Oh my god this was cringy to read. I can't even assume your reply was so obnoxiously stupid because you're not a native english speaker, as it clearly says on your profile that you're from the UK.

Anyway, if you're relying on experience then I've heard numerous woman say to a guy that she thinks they're too nice, and pretty much every time she meant it. The reasons might be different, but that doesn't mean she's lying or trying to disrespect the man she said it to. 🙄
 
#35 ·
"Too nice" are the guys who go out of their way to agree with a woman, stand up for your own opinions and beliefs and you'll do just fine.
 
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#36 · (Edited)
Depends on the person saying it? I've seen truly nice guys who get snagged up quickly by women maybe because they are kind and people can see it? And then I see there are some who pretend to be nice (the word nice in itself somewhat implies that a person isn't presenting their true selves), and that also comes off as being inauthentic.

I've also seen plenty of nice ladies who don't write about how nice they are just because they haven't found a decent guy. Ironic double standard, isn't it??

And I've also seen guys fall for "bad girl" types—the ones who sleep around, get drunk, do drugs (I guess some people truly do like what they can't have), and it's not a place to judge. Everyone deals with their own childhood attachment styles expressed through patterns of adult relationships in different ways. And then there are the happy campers who would rather not participate in this kind of mess, and they find each other by chasing their passions and keep it real. Depends. Social masks can really prevent people from bonding. And some people move on from the concept more easily than others? Half of the times it's incompatibility that's the issue, and not necessarily something personal per se. Finding the right person isn't easy, and that's why when people do, it's worth sifting through all of the mismatched relationships.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I think that "you're too nice" translates as "you're too needy". There is a difference between being needy or interested and perseverent.

I don't think women actually dislike someone for being nice. People appreciate being nice. It's as simple as being stopped by a cop and being let go with a warning because you were nice to him, the value of niceness cannot be overstated. People appreciate a person who is polite and helpful, this can't be overstated.

For women I think the most important thing is the character, what is on the inside. This is why it's a bit tricky for women, they have to know the man a bit. Where as men on the other hand can judge looks almost instantly. This is why status is important for women, not because they all want money, but because status is a kind of proxy signal for character, what's on the inside. Women are looking for a kind of trip advisor dating, cause they need validation from some other source.

So how to show interest without being needy or "too nice"? Understand 3 things:
No.1 - What qualifies as an event, what events stand out for a girl and what events don't stand out for a girl, and how can you set yourself apart.
No.2 - How can you show a lot of interest without coming off as the guy who tried really really hard? It's called net vs gross interest.
No.3 - Sometimes an action that seems needy on the surface is actually the opposite. Sometimes an action that seems needy is actually being entitled.

Let's start with No.1 - events that stand out.
Do you remember what you wore yesterday? Do you remember your first night in a club? Why you remember the latter but not the former? Odds are, you don't remember what you wore yesterday unless it stood out in some way, unless there was something special about it, and that's the key idea - something special about it.

You don't remember most things that happened in your life, you also don't remember most conversation you've had, and neither does everyone else including the girl you're talking to. So if you have a boring conversation where there are no emotional spikes, where there is nothing challenging, where there is nothing surprising out of the ordinary, you will not be remembered at all.

First and foremost, you need to be able to take risks. We all have a range of normal experiences, anything that is in the range of normal experiences will be forgotten. But if you do something on the extreme positive spike, it will be remembered, if you do something on the extreme negative spike, it will be remembered. So, you as a person talking with a girl will be remembered mainly by the emotional spikes that you create, the positives and negatives.

No.2 - net vs gross interest.
How can you give a girl a lot of compliments and still not come across as "needy" or "the one who tried too hard" or "too nice"? The answer is ratio between positive and negative.

Yes, do say more things that are on the positive spikes, more things that show interest in her, however also do things that show disinterest, or that show a willingness to walk away. Or like distain, or the fact that she just dissapointed you or whatever.

In terms of how much interest you've shown them, that's going to be the gross interest. As for the who is in charge of the set and who has power, that's going to be the net interest, as in the ratio between the positive and negative spikes that you've had. So the key here is - mix them up.

The key here is to not only be Mr. positive positive positive. Because you're the "too nice" guy that she can have. Also don't be Mr. negative negative negative because now you're a jerk. What you want to do is have that mix where you are exciting, where you are unpredictible. People respond to that which is unpredictible.

For example: gambling addicts. Why do gambling addicts get addicted to slot machines? because of the variable payout. If you pull a slot machine and win everytime, you wouldn't want to keep playing, it would be quite boring. But if the slot machine plays sometimes and doesn't pay other times, that's very exciting cause you never know when the next pay is coming. It's the same kind of thing with a girl. If you're unpredictible, she doesn't know when she is going to get rewarded by you or punished by you, she's going to want to chase you.

1 - Do things that are emotionally relevant.
2 - Have a ratio of positive and negative emotional spikes.
3 - Be unpredictible.
If you're doing these 3 things you're very quickly going to be memorable for a girl.

No.3 - persistance
Following up, reapproaching, texting a girl back, etc. And that makes sense, because if you text a girl over and over again, often times you are doing that out of needyness. Or if you try to approach a girl time after time after time, it's quite likely you were rejected the first few times and it looks very very needy. However, in a lot of cases, being persistent is the only option so even if it's needy it's your best bet.

Some guys are so trapped in this idea "oh, if I do it it's a little bit needy" that they lose the girl because of it. You should have a mentality of "I'm a high value guy, so even if this thing is a little needy, it's still the right thing to do, because, in your presence in the future, she's going to have so much positive stimulation that is going to overwhelm whatever neediness there is". So in a weird way, following her up and being needy is actually still a high self-esteem high value guy thing to do.

Sometimes being needy, isn't actually being needy, it's entitled. Let's say you text each other, ask for a date, she says yes. And there's one day before the date and the girl doesn't get back to him, the guy is "I don't want to text her because that would be needy", no, it wouldn't. That would be entitled.

Here's how you can tell the difference between needy and entittled: if you had a friend that you've known for years, and you had plans with him and he didn't text back, you would text him "hey bro, what's up?". And you would actually feel entittled to the date. You wouldn't worry about "Am I seeming needy?" you'd be like "we have plans, what are you doing?". So, standing up for yourself in this way, not in a bitter way, not saying "why aren't you texting me back?" cause that's actually bitter, but acting in the same way you would with a friend, like "did you not see my text?" or something like that.

And in fact, how bad does it look? You had plans with a girl, you text her, she didn't reply back, and then you text her the next day like nothing has happened. That shows neediness. That's the most low value thing you can do. So, in a context where you have done nothing wrong, and socially you deserve a response, following up to her to get a response is not needy. Now, if you follower her up 6 more times or you get bitter that's needy. But if you just do it once or twice and calmly in the same way you would with old friends, hit her up and let her know, that's not needy.

There's a difference between quality of response and quanity of response. You can follow with a girl a lot if you do it in a non-needy way. You can follow with a girl a lot if you do it in a confident high value way. It is okay if you're a high value guy, it is okay if you're coming from a good place to go ahead and hit the girl up one more time. It is okay to go reapproach a girl.

A lot of guys get so worried about "seeming needy" that they actually do the truly low value truly reactive thing, and actually end up in essence looking even needier. If you are a high value guy, you can get away with and then trump some of this neediness. In order for a date to happen, you need to interact with a girl, so anything that is allowing you to interact with a girl where you wouldn't have interaction otherwise, even if it is slightly needy, it's still the right thing to do.

With that reason, from that level, even approaching a girl in the first place is "a little needy", because you clearly want something from her. But if you don't approach her, it's never going to get anywhere. So, doing the approach, is it needy? maybe a little bit, but most of what it is is confident and entitled.
 
#38 ·
People confuse nice with confidence. I had a girl whom I was very nice to all over me because I sort of carried the relationship. I knew she looked up to me, constantly complimented me on how great I was in bed, and clearly was into me. I had no reason to be mean, distant, or intentionally aloof, because I carried myself with a certain confidence around her.

There are girls out there who will respond if they sense you will abandon them. I've threatened to end things with a couple women and watched them come right back after doing that. A lot of it really depends on how secure they are, and often the relationships they've had with their fathers.

The killer isn't nice, it's being too attached too soon. I did this a few times myself when I was in college, but experience has generally stopped it from happening as I've gotten older. I will not accept any offer to be "friends" after 1-2 dates, I don't date to make friends, especially with my sex drive. But I don't see the point of being mean when it makes more sense just to be firm about what I want.

Ultimately, when I hear "too nice" I think "lacks confidence" or "lacks experience", and it's really often the latter. Guys who don't date enough often just don't know what they're doing.
 
#41 ·
Maybe she ment too nice as in make sure people dont take advantage of your good heart (like they have with mine)?
 
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#42 ·
Yeah--the other thing I was thinking of was what @tanstaafl28 posted about, which is that some women (and men) can't recognize that they are worth being with someone nice.

It makes me think of this girl I was friends with--she was an ex stripper and escort, and she had also had a lot of other difficult experiences in her life. She was also a musician and pretty and I thought she had a great personality (though I imagine she may have gotten along better with women than men--she was also bisexual and may have preferred women).

But she got in a relationship and married this guy who treated her great and I think she sort of had a crisis almost...maybe she was afraid of hurting him.

She did end up leaving him...which I thought was too bad because I thought it seemed wonderful to have her life, especially considering all the negative experiences she'd had. Like some kind of fairytale. But maybe she just felt like it was too good for her so she unconsciously sabotaged it.

So women can also be like that--they can choose to be with people that they think they "deserve," who are more likely to hurt them. Men can too, I am sure.

I wouldn't say anyone wants to be abused, but the reality is that if it's something you grew up around it is familiar. And familiar is sometimes easier to deal with than the unfamiliar. That's why people follow the same bad patterns imo, even when what they'd really like is to break free.

I've had that feeling before--when someone is really good and nice I sort of feel like I have to treat them like the most valuable object in the world--and that's not really a way to connect for a relationship. Like with delicate gloves and carefully placed in a safe environment...because the idea of hurting them on accident is so scary.

If someone acts like a dick sometimes that gives me the opportunity to also act like a dick and that might be an easier way to express myself to them...like if I get upset about something they do. I generally try not to impose--with someone who seems super nice, I might feel guilty sharing my selfish feelings or my irritations or anything.

I think men can also act like that towards nice women--some men are worried about breaking a woman with just their normal feelings, or making her impure or something. And so they restrain themselves a lot around a woman who seems too nice or innocent, and might prefer to go for a woman who they think will be able to handle their darker impulses...and sometimes that woman might not be very nice (though they might not know how un-nice she is).

Perhaps men and women can both be "too nice" for each other sometimes. And both men and women can end up in unhealthy relationships with people who take advantage of them.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Yeah--the other thing I was thinking of was what @tanstaafl28 posted about, which is that some women (and men) can't recognize that they are worth being with someone nice.

It makes me think of this girl I was friends with--she was an ex stripper and escort, and she had also had a lot of other difficult experiences in her life. She was also a musician and pretty and I thought she had a great personality (though I imagine she may have gotten along better with women than men--she was also bisexual and may have preferred women).

But she got in a relationship and married this guy who treated her great and I think she sort of had a crisis almost... maybe she was afraid of hurting him.

She did end up leaving him... which I thought was too bad because I thought it seemed wonderful to have her life, especially considering all the negative experiences she'd had. Like some kind of fairytale. But maybe she just felt like it was too good for her so she unconsciously sabotaged it.

So women can also be like that--they can choose to be with people that they think they "deserve," who are more likely to hurt them. Men can too, I am sure.

I wouldn't say anyone wants to be abused, but the reality is that if it's something you grew up around it is familiar. And familiar is sometimes easier to deal with than the unfamiliar. That's why people follow the same bad patterns imo, even when what they'd really like is to break free.

I've had that feeling before--when someone is really good and nice I sort of feel like I have to treat them like the most valuable object in the world--and that's not really a way to connect for a relationship. Like with delicate gloves and carefully placed in a safe environment...because the idea of hurting them on accident is so scary.

If someone acts like a dick sometimes that gives me the opportunity to also act like a dick and that might be an easier way to express myself to them...like if I get upset about something they do. I generally try not to impose--with someone who seems super nice, I might feel guilty sharing my selfish feelings or my irritations or anything.

I think men can also act like that towards nice women--some men are worried about breaking a woman with just their normal feelings, or making her impure or something. And so they restrain themselves a lot around a woman who seems too nice or innocent, and might prefer to go for a woman who they think will be able to handle their darker impulses...and sometimes that woman might not be very nice (though they might not know how un-nice she is).

Perhaps men and women can both be "too nice" for each other sometimes. And both men and women can end up in unhealthy relationships with people who take advantage of them.
You can change that. You can tell people "you deserve good things", "you deserve to feel good".

I see where you're coming from with the familiar and I agree with you, nobody wants to be abused but we grow up around the familiar and it's easier to deal with than than the unfamiliar. But this doesn't mean you can't change people's mind that they deserve good things.

I can see the downsides of being "too nice" or "too agreeable". If you ask a disagreeable person what they want, they will tell you right away, but agreeable people, the really agreeable people are so agreeable that they often do not even know what they want. Because they are so accostumed to living for other people and finding out what other people want, and to try and make them comfortable and so on, that it's harder for them to find a sense of their own desires as they move through life.

There are situations when that is advantageous, but it's certainly not advantageous all the time. When you go out to your peers, you should not be subjugating your individuality to your peers. That's kind of based on an inhibition model. People have to learn to negociate on their own behalf. You have to know what you want. You have to be able to communicate it, and you have to be able to say no. And to say no you have to be built on a solid foundation, you have to have options.

If you don't have options you can't negociate with someone, and if you're not willing to use your options they win, period. If you're asking your boss for more money, the answer is no.

Some of life is 0 sum. Not always, because often you cooperate with people and the whole, but some of the negociations in life are 0 sum, and so you better have a case made. Here's how much money I should have, here's why, here's the benefit to you that will occur if you do it. Here's the consequences that you don't, they're actually real, they will cost you and I will do them. Then you can negociate, and you don't do that rudely, but you better have those arguments in order.

If you're going to negociate for a raise or a status shift, you better have your resumee at hand. Because otherwise you're weak, and you will not win the negociation.

And if you're too agreeable, you're conflict avoidant. You will make less money over time, and that's because you don't have teeth, not enough. You're going to incrementally lose to people who are more aggressive, who have bigger teeths, and that's what happens.

So don't let that happen, you place yourself so you can negociate, because otherwise you're just a facade and in a real battle a facade is just torn down right away.
 
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