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Discussion Starter #1
I don't really get it. My best friend is an ESFJ, and he's a great guy. Pretty chilled and laid back. But, maybe it's just that he would be kinda different, who knows lol

Anyway, just wanted to say y'all can have some INFP love from me.
 

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I'm not totally sure if this is an accurate insight, but I've noticed that a lot of complaints on here are against ESFJ women (particularly family members....more particularly mothers). I've never known an ESFJ man, but I've heard that the type is actually a little different between the sexes (?). Can't explain that one. :)
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Oh, huh. Well I guess that makes sense. My boss might be a female ESFJ, but I'm so new at this I can't tell really well without a test or a decent conversation with the person.
 

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I made a lot of assumptions when I first got into Myers-Briggs...it takes a while to really be able to accurately type without a test or a deep relationship. Maybe this is just INFJ arrogance, but there are times now where someone tells me they think they are a certain type, and I think to myself, "...No, you're not..."
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Maybe lol

I just think this is super-interesting, and would love to be able to type people I knew easier. I've been making them all take a test to test my hypothesis lol
 

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I think it's absolutely fascinating! I've been at it for three(ish) years with Myers-Briggs, plus a couple years prior with the Five Temperaments (Sanguine, Choleric, Supine, Melancholy, Phlegmatic)...it gives so much insight into life.
I seriously think I've asked almost everyone I've been close to in the last three years to take a test at some point :) You're not alone.

As for ESFJs, it helped me tolerate (negative connotation there...can't come up with a better word) them a lot to just get a better understanding of their inner workings. It also encouraged me, after learning more about ESFJs and getting some input on here from ESFJs about my specific situation, to pursue resolution with an ESFJ family member. Gave me a more "rounded-out" view of her, I guess.

It's hard to deal with people now, after understanding so much about how people work and why, who aren't familiar with, or don't believe in differences in personalities. It's like hitting your head against a wall trying to explain that no, we're not all the same, and yes, we may actually have completely different methods and understandings within the same issue.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Yeah, i could definitely see that. I can't wait to get deeper into this, because I've never been more fascinated with anything ever. I guess I need to read up more on ESFJ's just because from what I hear they're all so common in the public, it would be good to learn to deal with them more.
 

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Definitely- same here.
I need some help socializing with them for sure. Not natural at it at all.
These forums are really helpful when ESFJs actually get on- it's frustrating that they're not on here a lot, though, because it would be nice to get more of their input.

Also, it would be nice if people walked around in real life with their type pasted to their foreheads... :) It would make things so much easier!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yeah, but that would kill the INFPs cause we try to hide it so well lmao

But yeah, I do agree it would be nice
 

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I'm not totally sure if this is an accurate insight, but I've noticed that a lot of complaints on here are against ESFJ women (particularly family members....more particularly mothers). I've never known an ESFJ man, but I've heard that the type is actually a little different between the sexes (?). Can't explain that one. :)
ESFJs tend to be concerned with their local gender stereotypes, which causes them to act differently (and often overact whatever it is they are expected to do by their society).
 

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I think they get a lot of hate on this website because they aren't very naturally intellectually inclined and can seem annoyingly shallow and fake. An abnormally large proportion of people on PerC is N or NT, who do not get along with ESFJ on a deeper level. NT's and ESFJ's have different mode of communication (ESFJ's can't think in abstract terms while N's love it), completely different set of values (knowledge/power/ideas versus harmony/tradition/real-life applications).

ESFJ's are total people pleasers though, and I can see how the GENERAL population will tend to like the ESFJ, while people like us on PerC who like to analyze, critique things and value objectivity/knowledge will find ESFJ's as a type to continuously bash about.
 

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I think they get a lot of hate on this website because they aren't very naturally intellectually inclined and can seem annoyingly shallow and fake. An abnormally large proportion of people on PerC is N or NT, who do not get along with ESFJ on a deeper level. NT's and ESFJ's have different mode of communication (ESFJ's can't think in abstract terms while N's love it), completely different set of values (knowledge/power/ideas versus harmony/tradition/real-life applications).

ESFJ's are total people pleasers though, and I can see how the GENERAL population will tend to like the ESFJ, while people like us on PerC who like to analyze, critique things and value objectivity/knowledge will find ESFJ's as a type to continuously bash about.
Remember, preference != ability. It's not that they can't think in abstract terms, it's that they don't particularly like to.

...which is probably actually worse when it comes to the communication barrier. Mind, the only ESFJ's I've gotten to know more closely have been rather unhealthy, so I acknowledge there's some bias.
 

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I think they get a lot of hate on this website because they aren't very naturally intellectually inclined and can seem annoyingly shallow and fake. An abnormally large proportion of people on PerC is N or NT, who do not get along with ESFJ on a deeper level. NT's and ESFJ's have different mode of communication (ESFJ's can't think in abstract terms while N's love it), completely different set of values (knowledge/power/ideas versus harmony/tradition/real-life applications).

ESFJ's are total people pleasers though, and I can see how the GENERAL population will tend to like the ESFJ, while people like us on PerC who like to analyze, critique things and value objectivity/knowledge will find ESFJ's as a type to continuously bash about.
There's a lot of assumptions there. Intelligence and type do NOT correlate. ESFJs aren't usually intellectual? Where did that idea come from? Personality theory is meant to focus on personality. We shouldn't go to personality theory when we're trying to figure out somebody's intelligence. Shallow and fake also have very little to do with type. That has to do, really, with maturity more than anything else. I also wouldn't say that they aren't capable of thinking abstractly. I mean, just like Intuitives can think concretely, so can Sensors think abstractly. It's just a preference thing.
 

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Why is it that a lot of people claiming to be all intuitive and abstract thinkers etc etc blah blah blah show absolutely no ability to look past stereotypes? And then claim that sensors can't think in abstract terms when showing clear signs of not being able to do so themselves. It boggles the mind!
 

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@hello HELLO
I needed a laugh.
Let me rephrase that for you.

I think they get a lot of hate on this website because they have been described as being not very naturally intellectually inclined and have been stereotyped as being shallow and fake. An abnormally large proportion of people on PerC is N or NT, who have been told again and again that theydo not get along with ESFJ on a deeper level. NT's and ESFJ's have different mode of communication (ESFJ's can't think in abstract terms while N's love it), completely different set of values (knowledge/power/ideas versus harmony/tradition/real-life applications).(<- How can I even fix that sentence. Look at those generalizations and assumptions.)

ESFJ's , like other types, can be total people pleasers though, and I can see how the GENERAL population will tend to like the ESFJ, while people like us on PerC who like to analyze, critique things and value objectivity/knowledge (because that's somathing that the rest of the population can't do?) will find ESFJ's as a type to continuously bash about, often based on steriotypes.
 

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All that said, the ESFJ friends I've had tend to get completely confused when I've tried to explain more complex things to them. I mean by this to say: sure, nobody fits the stereotype, but some ESFJs are indeed intellectually apathetic (but seem to do well in college, so pretty intelligent all the same). Also, from what I've observed, they tend to not be shallow... they can be pretty bad at talking about things that aren't shallow, however, so they can quickly come across as shallow (and seem to like that image for some reason ^_^;;)

@Vanderlyle - A general assertion that I wish more people would keep in mind all the time.
 

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I don't really get it. My best friend is an ESFJ, and he's a great guy. Pretty chilled and laid back. But, maybe it's just that he would be kinda different, who knows lol

Anyway, just wanted to say y'all can have some INFP love from me.
i think in most people's cases it's a sense of frustration at the communication and attitude boundary between themselves (being mostly intuitives) and ESFJs. no one can doubt that ESFJs generally have good hearts and are very considerate people in their own way, it's just a sense of "i know i should appreciate you being here, but secretly i wish you were another type instead because it might make my life easier"
 

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All that said, the ESFJ friends I've had tend to get completely confused when I've tried to explain more complex things to them. I mean by this to say: sure, nobody fits the stereotype, but some ESFJs are indeed intellectually apathetic (but seem to do well in college, so pretty intelligent all the same). Also, from what I've observed, they tend to not be shallow... they can be pretty bad at talking about things that aren't shallow, however, so they can quickly come across as shallow (and seem to like that image for some reason ^_^;;)

@Vanderlyle - A general assertion that I wish more people would keep in mind all the time.
However, other types do that equally as well, which is important to note. It's not that ESFJs tend to be the ones to do this.

@Tridentus - Quite honestly, there's not much of a communication block there. Fe and Fi can have some clashes (although this can also happen with ENFJ as well), but that should be the main block (at least for ENFPs). Even then, I hardly ever notice it. XD
 
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