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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys. As some of you may know, I'm a former INTJ since I've gotten that score on the official examination and other tests. However, I've been recently getting lots of ISTJ as a result. From looking at the ISTJ further, I realize that I'm becoming more of this MBTI type in both personality and preference. I find it a bit amusing that I transitioned from one of the rarest personality types to what is arguably the most common of them all.

That being said, you guys were quite wonderful on this side of the forum and I can visit from time to time.
 

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Please elaborate. I'm really interesting to see why you think this.
 

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In parting (though not really, we're still in the same forum), I suggest to perhaps look further into the functions, especially Si vs Ni, and see what really suits you. The tests can only determine so much about what's going on in your mind.

(Also, I don't think ISTJ is already the most common type; there are still the extroverts. Nothing inherently wrong with the distribution of the types in the population. And all those are beside the point.)

And no matter what your type, no matter what part of PerC you end up in, you are still yourself first and foremost :D (I'll do my part in keeping this in mind as well.)
 

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And no matter what your type, no matter what part of PerC you end up in, you are still yourself first and foremost:D
That's right. Changing your label doesn't change you. It just changes your understanding of you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Please elaborate. I'm really interesting to see why you think this.
Aye!

Well...this is more from looking at some tests that I did, though admittedly my Si vs Ni was very on-the-fence (it's always around >10% between each other). In other things, I tend to be a bit of a traditionalist (i.e. I believe in loyalty towards parents - a very Asian mindset due to my Asian heritage) and pragmatic in my goals for life (I read that INTJs tend to be very conjectural in their beliefs - something that I have always felt doesn't really fit me). I'm also considered quite respectful and kind to subordinates, even willing to forgive a mistake or two - something that seems to contrast stereotypical INTJ traits.

The one thing for me that really struck me as more ISTJ than INTJ is one of my basic fears of life and something that's affecting me a lot in college - stability. I'm quite frightened of being unstable and doing radically new things (granted, I do like eating new kinds of food, but that's minor in the scheme of things). INTJs typically are more "f$%@ it all and do what I want" in regards to life - something that contrasts me greatly.

On the flip side though, I tend to be loose with my morals, meaning that I'm willing to sully my hands (figuratively speaking) to get what I want. I also do have very strong passions and, in a perfect world, I would love to pursue them for life. I read that stereotypical INTJs tend to possess strong passions for certain things and relentlessly absorb information on such subjects. Furthermore, I don't believe that facts are not always concrete - something that tends to resonate with ISTJs. I actually enjoy arguing how facts could be modified or slanted in a way to make a certain party look better under examination.

I'm still doing side research on this since I heard ISTJ vs INTJ is an easy confusion. Heck! An ISTJ mentioned that I might just be an INTJ with tons of ISTJ traits. I also take MBTI with a grain of salt since I don't believe that one's personality could be fully contained in a four letter acronym.

That being said, I'm interested from people on this side of the forum of what they think I am since even the tests themselves are kinda on the fence about whether I'm a Si or Ni :happy:.
 
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In other things, I tend to be a bit of a traditionalist (i.e. I believe in loyalty towards parents - a very Asian mindset due to my Asian heritage)
In what ways are you a traditionalist and in what ways do you believe in loyalty to your parents?

and pragmatic in my goals for life (I read that INTJs tend to be very conjectural in their beliefs - something that I have always felt doesn't really fit me).
Where did you read this, and can you elaborate?

I'm also considered quite respectful and kind to subordinates, even willing to forgive a mistake or two - something that seems to contrast stereotypical INTJ traits.
Wow, do you really believe everything you read? Might I ask, are you also religious?

The one thing for me that really struck me as more ISTJ than INTJ is one of my basic fears of life and something that's affecting me a lot in college - stability. I'm quite frightened of being unstable and doing radically new things
Like what?

INTJs typically are more "f$%@ it all and do what I want" in regards to life - something that contrasts me greatly.
And your attitude toward life is... ?

I read that stereotypical INTJs tend to possess strong passions for certain things and relentlessly absorb information on such subjects.
Where?
 
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I share a lot of those traits: need for stability, traditionalism, pragmatic goals for life, respectful and kind to subordinates.

Remember, MBTI is about how you take in and process information. Do you process information through your own lens or do you take things at face value? Do you rely on facts and words, or do you rely on ideas and concepts?

I think there's a lot of overlap between INTJ and ISTJ. In fact, a friend at work who I was sure was an ISTJ told me he's an INTJ. Keep in mind this guy is the most traditional, stable, pragmatic person I know. But he makes associations in his mind faster than he can logically process them, which is a clear N over S trait.

I'm not trying to sway you either way. Just be aware that it is possible to bridge the gap between types. Not every INTJ or ISTJ (or any type) is created equal.
 

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Aye!

Well...this is more from looking at some tests that I did, though admittedly my Si vs Ni was very on-the-fence (it's always around >10% between each other). In other things, I tend to be a bit of a traditionalist (i.e. I believe in loyalty towards parents - a very Asian mindset due to my Asian heritage) and pragmatic in my goals for life (I read that INTJs tend to be very conjectural in their beliefs - something that I have always felt doesn't really fit me). I'm also considered quite respectful and kind to subordinates, even willing to forgive a mistake or two - something that seems to contrast stereotypical INTJ traits.

It is not kindness to forgive mistakes in subordinates. Taking care of your subordinates means motivating them to be the best people they can be. To set the standard and elevate them.
To be kind to subordinates is not the same thing as to please them.
The best managers I've had, are the ones who have been the fair but harsh critics.

The one thing for me that really struck me as more ISTJ than INTJ is one of my basic fears of life and something that's affecting me a lot in college - stability. I'm quite frightened of being unstable and doing radically new things (granted, I do like eating new kinds of food, but that's minor in the scheme of things). INTJs typically are more "f$%@ it all and do what I want" in regards to life - something that contrasts me greatly.
I tend to be suspicious of stability, for it indicates stagnation. While I do not go to of my way to shake things up, I try to embrace opportunities for new experiences. For if anything, stability and stagnation scare me, as life is short.


On the flip side though, I tend to be loose with my morals, meaning that I'm willing to sully my hands (figuratively speaking) to get what I want.
I am not, I will find an alternative that does not involve sullying my hands.

I also do have very strong passions and, in a perfect world, I would love to pursue them for life. I read that stereotypical INTJs tend to possess strong passions for certain things and relentlessly absorb information on such subjects. Furthermore, I don't believe that facts are not always concrete - something that tends to resonate with ISTJs. I actually enjoy arguing how facts could be modified or slanted in a way to make a certain party look better under examination.
Facts are concrete, it's people that fail to understand them. The fog of incomplete data.

I'm still doing side research on this since I heard ISTJ vs INTJ is an easy confusion. Heck! An ISTJ mentioned that I might just be an INTJ with tons of ISTJ traits. I also take MBTI with a grain of salt since I don't believe that one's personality could be fully contained in a four letter acronym.

Could you show us the results of this test? It shows multiple types and ranks your answers as a percentage to which each type is likely to answer.
John's Personality Test
 

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I tend to be suspicious of stability, for it indicates stagnation. While I do not go to of my way to shake things up, I try to embrace opportunities for new experiences. For if anything, stability and stagnation scare me, as life is short.
I actually wrote a really long post about this topic where I expressed the exact same sentiments.
 

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As it turns out, my university buddy is in fact an ISTJ, and since he is the person I work/hang out the most, I was able to gather a lot of information regarding ISTJ and INTJ differences.

But I've gotten to know quite a lot ISTJ people so far, so I think I know the differences.

From what I've read so far nothing nothing points towards any special type, the only thing that is certain is that you are most likely an IxTJ (duh, surprise).
Statistically speaking, it is much much more likely that you are an ISTJ, so I wouldn't be shocked if you are an ISTJ after all (it's not like you'd be the only wrongly typed INTJ here).

And... you don't "shift types". Either you've been a type all along or have a shift in the ordering of functions, which is mostly associated with unhealthy living conditions (but that would make you a Se and no Si).

Aye!

Well...this is more from looking at some tests that I did, though admittedly my Si vs Ni was very on-the-fence (it's always around >10% between each other). In other things, I tend to be a bit of a traditionalist (i.e. I believe in loyalty towards parents - a very Asian mindset due to my Asian heritage) and pragmatic in my goals for life (I read that INTJs tend to be very conjectural in their beliefs - something that I have always felt doesn't really fit me). I'm also considered quite respectful and kind to subordinates, even willing to forgive a mistake or two - something that seems to contrast stereotypical INTJ traits.
If you consider stereotypes, consider that people who write about stereotypes don't have a single clue about functions... unless you also beliefe that every one of us is a science genius who wants to take over the world.

INTJs are pragmatic and I am much more pragmatic than any ISTJ I've ever met.
Also, Si does not equal brainless tradition, this is too written by people who can't fathom this function.

Si is a function with ritualistic character, but Ni can be stubborn too and focus too much on a single thing without considering new possibilities which have a completely new approach.

With ritualistic I mean, they will repeat actions which are important to them and of sensual character. Often, this then turns into a hobby.
I know an ISTJ who plays music even-though he doesn't like it as he used to, he finds it hard to let go. Also, he regularly goes to the gym. Two others I knew played soccer (im not implying that ISTJs in general like sports).

However, it doesn't need to be a physical activity, as another one I know used to love reading things about radio technology, a thing most would associate with an INTJ.
So, consider that your clear lines can start blurring pretty fast.

And I and I assume most INTJs can happily live with people making mistakes, as we are well aware that we are not completely perfect either. But what we absolutely detest is incompetence or somebody wasting our time, it makes me furious (and I'm by far the calmest person I know).

The one thing for me that really struck me as more ISTJ than INTJ is one of my basic fears of life and something that's affecting me a lot in college - stability. I'm quite frightened of being unstable and doing radically new things (granted, I do like eating new kinds of food, but that's minor in the scheme of things). INTJs typically are more "f$%@ it all and do what I want" in regards to life - something that contrasts me greatly.
Our f$%@ are related to other people and not to any material/objective matters. We are not the kind of people who yell at the computer, hoping it to hear it so it makes the right things (because the user totally isnt the source of the problem).
Therefore, it should be more like: "f$%@ I shit on your opinion, give me my private room".

Ni is not good at learning something completely new. We use what we already know and turn it to our advantage, as we take everything into atomar bits so we can reuse it for other occasions.
Because of that we have to put a great amount of time to learn things we are completely new and have nothing to structurize it (that's Ni for you).

Si on the other hand happily seen end results of something new and can transfer that to other occasions and in general is faster to learn something completely new. However, if tasks occur which demand you derivating and alternating what you already know, Si can get dead ends.


On the flip side though, I tend to be loose with my morals, meaning that I'm willing to sully my hands (figuratively speaking) to get what I want. I also do have very strong passions and, in a perfect world, I would love to pursue them for life. I read that stereotypical INTJs tend to possess strong passions for certain things and relentlessly absorb information on such subjects. Furthermore, I don't believe that facts are not always concrete - something that tends to resonate with ISTJs. I actually enjoy arguing how facts could be modified or slanted in a way to make a certain party look better under examination.
I think everything in this paragraph can apply to ISTJs and INTJs alike since this as rather vague, so it depends on the situation.

The "facts" part is a shared trait of ISTJs and INTJs alike, since it describes the core of Te.
ISTJ and INTJ both want coherency of all hard facts you know (or at least those that matter to you) but in different ways with the general rule being that Ni works with information on an abstract level while Si is more mundane in its approach.

I wonder, do you consider yourself an idealist or ideal?
I found out that the former applied more to ISTJs and the latter to INTJs.

I'm still doing side research on this since I heard ISTJ vs INTJ is an easy confusion. Heck! An ISTJ mentioned that I might just be an INTJ with tons of ISTJ traits. I also take MBTI with a grain of salt since I don't believe that one's personality could be fully contained in a four letter acronym.
It's true, you simply cannot divide all personalities into for letters.

But you can achieve astonishing results when you research the functions (make observations on your own, there is too much BS written in the internet and in books) and see how they reflect key parts of a personality.

Especially the difference in the functional axis of the judging functions.
In my eyes, the difference between "Fi / Te" and "Ti / Fe" is a key factor in understanding why people are so different. And when you start realizing why extraverted functions are chained to introverted and start seeing its implications, you see why there is only little room for anything else.

So yeah, In a way you can bring down everything to 4 letters, but only when you know everything behind it (sadly, that's normally not the case and then the issue with the stereotypes comes up again).

That being said, I'm interested from people on this side of the forum of what they think I am since even the tests themselves are kinda on the fence about whether I'm a Si or Ni :happy:.
Well. Don't trust tests. Ever.
They are just a snap shot of your current condition and I types in particular are less likely to be made clear.
If you are interested and really want to know, you can only be sure by doing it the hard way and dig into the functions.

So, you basically gave too little information for us to judge.
Only thing I can say is that a dark sense of humour does not seem to be common among ISTJs (at all), as they always seem to be shocked how deep my sense for dark humour is rooted xD
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
It is not kindness to forgive mistakes in subordinates. Taking care of your subordinates means motivating them to be the best people they can be. To set the standard and elevate them.
To be kind to subordinates is not the same thing as to please them.
The best managers I've had, are the ones who have been the fair but harsh critics.



I tend to be suspicious of stability, for it indicates stagnation. While I do not go to of my way to shake things up, I try to embrace opportunities for new experiences. For if anything, stability and stagnation scare me, as life is short.




I am not, I will find an alternative that does not involve sullying my hands.



Facts are concrete, it's people that fail to understand them. The fog of incomplete data.




Could you show us the results of this test? It shows multiple types and ranks your answers as a percentage to which each type is likely to answer.
John's Personality Test
This is interesting...

Text Computer icon Font Web page Screenshot


24.104.139.173: Test complete! (restart)
36%
ISTJ

25%
ISTP

14%
ESTJ

6%
INTJ

5%
ISFJ


To be honest, I appreciate all the nitpicking by all you guys :happy:

From looking at my answers, I wonder if I'm going more Si than Ni due to the fact that I'm in college trying to get a career? Then again, will INTJs go for what they like or what's practical in regards to majors / classes / careers?

Then again...in regards to me, I tend to take a more "off" road to my goals than compared to my colleagues (i.e. ACT as opposed to SAT, attempting pre-med with a public relations major)...
 

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From looking at my answers, I wonder if I'm going more Si than Ni due to the fact that I'm in college trying to get a career? Then again, will INTJs go for what they like or what's practical in regards to majors / classes / careers?
Both INTJ and ISTJ will consider and weigh practicality (Te) and their personal interests (Fi). They will just perceive further information involving these issues differently, and that's where Si and Ni come in.


To put it generally, because I sadly don't have as much patience as the other posters to use a blow-by-blow approach: rather than the final outcomes of the decisions, consider the mental processes (both the receiving and then the evaluation of information) used to make these decisions. It's the processes, not the outcomes, that can be classified into cognitive functions as outlined by theory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Both INTJ and ISTJ will consider and weigh practicality (Te) and their personal interests (Fi). They will just perceive further information involving these issues differently, and that's where Si and Ni come in.


To put it generally, because I sadly don't have as much patience as the other posters to use a blow-by-blow approach: rather than the final outcomes of the decisions, consider the mental processes (both the receiving and then the evaluation of information) used to make these decisions. It's the processes, not the outcomes, that can be classified into cognitive functions as outlined by theory.
So...fact gathering vs esoteric thinking?

Well...I tend to ask superiors and do lots of Internet sifting to get some idea of what I want to do. However, I have to sit down and process it all before I can actually make a substantial plan...
 

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So...fact gathering vs esoteric thinking?
Do you mean Si vs Ni? It's more like "how do I perceive this based on what I've encountered before, whether directly or indirectly, and can relate with this object now in front of me" Vs "how do I perceive this based on things that I may conjure in my head now but I may not have encountered personally before?"

And even if I use those crazy long phrases to avoid gross generalizations, they still don't encapsulate fully what those functions are. It took the authors of cognitive functions paragraphs, even whole sections to describe what these are, and they're still at least a bit elusive.

Well...I tend to ask superiors and do lots of Internet sifting to get some idea of what I want to do. However, I have to sit down and process it all before I can actually make a substantial plan...
Sounds more like Te, preferring a (relatively) well-defined, discrete method when performing a certain task.




A big hurdle in typing is determining which things are explained by functions, and which ones are correlations at best. It'll take some time to observe your mental processes further, and some additional reading and discussion to learn the right questions to answer that will lead you towards your personality type.

This isn't meant to put pressure on you to find a type right away. Take your time.
 

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I have a strong out-of-preference Practical ability in the N-S range, which makes me able to relate to S-types quite well, and also it made me appear much more ISTJ when I was in my twenties compared to nowadays.

Basically, it's possible to be a mixture and also to use different parts of your functions at different times in your life. My Ni is way better now than it was back then, simply because there is that much more life experience that's gone past me and been taken in as data. Hence I rely on it more. And I've got more used to my Fi and I listen to my own Fi more nowadays. It was always *there*, I just didn't know *how* to use it and I didn't know that I *could* rely on it.

INTJs take a long time to grow up into themselves, I think I read somewhere. Late developers. Certainly I *looked* way more like an ISTJ in my twenties.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have a strong out-of-preference Practical ability in the N-S range, which makes me able to relate to S-types quite well, and also it made me appear much more ISTJ when I was in my twenties compared to nowadays.

Basically, it's possible to be a mixture and also to use different parts of your functions at different times in your life. My Ni is way better now than it was back then, simply because there is that much more life experience that's gone past me and been taken in as data. Hence I rely on it more. And I've got more used to my Fi and I listen to my own Fi more nowadays. It was always *there*, I just didn't know *how* to use it and I didn't know that I *could* rely on it.

INTJs take a long time to grow up into themselves, I think I read somewhere. Late developers. Certainly I *looked* way more like an ISTJ in my twenties.
That's quite interesting :happy:. Maybe I'm still an INTJ...but one that's still trying to cobble up an identity. To be frank, the twenties are quite a tumultuous time for me in regards to schoolwork and life in general. This might inversely affect my answers concerning MBTI tests...
 

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Also, Si does not equal brainless tradition, this is too written by people who can't fathom this function.
Nailed it.

as another one I know used to love reading things about radio technology, a thing most would associate with an INTJ.
Actually, I would assume Ti preferrer from that.

Ni is not good at learning something completely new. We use what we already know and turn it to our advantage, as we take everything into atomar bits so we can reuse it for other occasions.
Because of that we have to put a great amount of time to learn things we are completely new and have nothing to structurize it (that's Ni for you).

Si on the other hand happily seen end results of something new and can transfer that to other occasions and in general is faster to learn something completely new. However, if tasks occur which demand you derivating and alternating what you already know, Si can get dead ends.
Did you swap these on accident?

In my eyes, the difference between "Fi / Te" and "Ti / Fe" is a key factor in understanding why people are so different.
I agree. I find it so cool.

From looking at my answers, I wonder if I'm going more Si than Ni due to the fact that I'm in college trying to get a career?
You're going Si because you picked the Si answers. That's how tests work.

Then again, will INTJs go for what they like or what's practical in regards to majors / classes / careers?
Of course. This is a Te thing.

One difference I would conjecture would be that INTJs would be more interested in fields that will be important and desirable when they graduate. Cutting-edge fields. Especially ones that may be start-ups now but will be booming in the future. They're more in-touch with the future possibilities of where fields will take them. And they will decide based on that.

Whereas ISTJs are going to be more interested in stable fields that are always needed--fields that never go away. Like health care, anything for the government, you get the picture. They're more in-touch with stability and what is traditionally good and valuable. And will decide based on that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
One difference I would conjecture would be that INTJs would be more interested in fields that will be important and desirable when they graduate. Cutting-edge fields. Especially ones that may be start-ups now but will be booming in the future. They're more in-touch with the future possibilities of where fields will take them. And they will decide based on that.

Whereas ISTJs are going to be more interested in stable fields that are always needed--fields that never go away. Like health care, anything for the government, you get the picture. They're more in-touch with stability and what is traditionally good and valuable. And will decide based on that.
Hmmmmmm...that is quite interesting. I guess that makes me more of an INTJ in reasoning due to the fact that I chose public relations because it both plays to my strengths (writing, oration) and is a "hot" major, meaning that it's becoming in-demand in the workplace :).
 

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And... you don't "shift types". Either you've been a type all along or have a shift in the ordering of functions, which is mostly associated with unhealthy living conditions (but that would make you a Se and no Si).
Are you sure about this? It's commonly accepted in modern psychology that personality is a moving target, it changes based on experience. There is a lot of nurture based in personality, surely this would be applicable to myer briggs classifications?

And I and I assume most INTJs can happily live with people making mistakes, as we are well aware that we are not completely perfect either. But what we absolutely detest is incompetence or somebody wasting our time, it makes me furious (and I'm by far the calmest person I know).
I work in IT. My job is to go through a list of tickets and to resolve issues. My day is observing other peoples incompetence and mishandling of these issues. :crying: It drives me nuts, but it also keeps me laughing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Are you sure about this? It's commonly accepted in modern psychology that personality is a moving target, it changes based on experience. There is a lot of nurture based in personality, surely this would be applicable to myer briggs classifications?



I work in IT. My job is to go through a list of tickets and to resolve issues. My day is observing other peoples incompetence and mishandling of these issues. :crying: It drives me nuts, but it also keeps me laughing.

He could be right about the unhealthy living conditions though. I'm in college and...I'm frankly going through a hard time at my institution concerning careers :unsure:.

However, I could understand your sentiments concerning IT since I work in PR:

When I'm Talking With Client: I'm sorry about your situation...

When Client Is Away:
 
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