[Altruistic Misanthrope]

Hi!
I'm new here and just a novice at Personality Profiles and Types. I joined the community here because everyone seems so well-informed, the threads are very interesting and a veritable fountain of information and opinions.

Basically, I wanted to ask people for their opinions on how certain life experiences, especially more traumatic ones, impact a person. I'm particularly interested in whether or not you believe personality types can change as a result of an experience, or whether certain traits simply become more subdued?

For example, if someone who is naturally a Feeling individual is brought up in an environment where emotions are viewed as a weakness, or they are forced to internalise them, does this Feeling trait protect itself by retreating? If so, does this mean the Thinking trait becomes more prominent to compensate? Or is Feeling still prominent and just not expressed? Does this oppression have any long term consequences on the individual; how they behave, view themselves and the world around them etc...?

I'm basically looking for any insight into how a traumatic or oppressive experience can affect and change the personality structure of an individual; and how this manifests itself in temperament and every-day life etc...

Furthermore, I'm curious to know what sort of things you think impact identity? What makes an individual Assertive or Turbulent? Is this distinction shaped by personal and life experiences, or are some people just born with a built-in confidence/wide array of emotions.

Thanks for your time, any thoughts are much appreciated!

 

[Amnesia]

@Altruistic Misanthrope Hey there, welcome, I'm new here too! Interesting username you have there!

Personally I believe that personality types do not change as a result of an experience. Although not entirely relevant, I've read somewhere that personality types do not change, although individuals are capable of developing traits contradicting the description of their type. Basically something about how your environment is capable of shaping these traits, but once you are out of this environment, you would go back to acting the certain way you naturally do. The example they gave was say that you're naturally more of a P than a J, and would rather adapt and go with the flow rather than come up with a structured plan. However your work environment is very structured, and requires you to work in a structured manner with plans and strict schedules. Although yes while in that work environment, you may become a very structured and organised person, you will still go back to being a P rather than a J once you are out of the work environment, say you leave the job. And this applies for other traits as well. (Just realised where it came from: 16personalities,com/articles/is-it-possible-to-change-your-personality-type Replace the comma with . please, sorry I can't post links yet.)

Also regarding the traumatic experience part, I am not so sure, but from this really useful MBTI tumblr blog (mbti-notes,tumblr,com), it is said that "Trauma is likely to send INFJs into looping and/or grip behavior, as they turn to seeking meaning in narrow actions rather than depth of relationship". (Looping for INFJs is basically using Ni-Ti without Fe. I am not sure how this works for other types, but I suppose the T function could then become more prominent, like in the case of INFJs not using the feeling function?)

I guess people's personalities are shaped by their personal life experiences to a certain extent, but definitely not fully. Because people of different personality types would react to the same scenario differently after all, right?

Therefore I would say that no, I believe that someone's personality type does not change as a result of an experience. But how someone uses their functions in their type may change (the INFJ example mentioned above).

Sorry if I was really incoherent and irrelevant. I am not actually well-informed, and I'm new here too haha, just thought I could provide some input. Welcome once again, I hope you'll enjoy your stay here!

 

[Altruistic Misanthrope]

@Amnesia Haha cheers

Whoa, thanks a lot! That is incredibly helpful, you could have fooled me about not being well-informed! Your input is much appreciated and the links were really useful too. Especially in reference to the INFJ's as they were actually the group I was thinking of when I was forming my questions.

Basically I was looking up both INTJ and INFJ personality traits and comparing how they view the world and respond to different situations. Obviously, they do have a lot of similarities as the only difference is their 'Nature' personality aspect; and (from my not-yet-fully-formed-opinion at least), Nature is probably the most pliable of all the aspects and the one most affected by the external environment and learned behaviours.

I'm not sure I'm making much sense... I’ll try and explain my reasoning.

Mind, Energy and Tactics are, from a very simplistic view, products of how your mind and brain work. There are no emotions involved at this stage. It's how you process information, how you make decisions, interact with people etc... and 'how' you tackle these things depends on whether you were born with a more analytical or imaginative mind. There are pros and cons to both, and whether one is ‘better’ or ‘worse’ is entirely situation dependent.
So, like you said, we adapt to our environment and revert back to what is natural when we leave it. Hence some people struggle with traditional school teaching methods, schedules, rules etc... and are branded 'disruptive' or 'slow' because their brains struggle to understand how the information is presented to them; yet in a different environment, that is more free, they are 'intelligent' and 'hard-working'. This is because their environment and the way information is being presented makes sense to their individual way of processing the world around them. Obviously we can learn to develop and use our shadow traits but they will always be less-dominant.

Nature, however, entangles your emotions - which makes things more complicated (isn't that always the way? ). Even the most logical, thinking personality is fuelled by their passions, (a passion for clarity and logic for example), and passion, like it or not, is an emotion. Emotions are innate, and are arguably one of the primary motivational systems. Whist they may be accused of being unfeeling, Thinking types do experience emotions (still waters run deep and all that), what differs between them and Feeling types, is how they cope with these emotions i.e. how they express them (or don’t express them).

Emotions are innate but emotional expression is learned, in both how we express specific emotions and which emotions we are allowed to express and to what extent. For example, male and female babies cry equal amounts; but when they grow the boys are told they’re not allowed to talk about their feelings and are told not to cry when they’re sad, girls however, are encouraged to cry and talk about their feelings. Society has decided what is acceptable behaviour for each sex and they have learned how to cope with their emotions according to these societal expectations. Managing these expectations is easier for some types than it is for others, and it may go part way to explaining why certain personality types have a more extreme male:female ration and vis versa. Females are often associated with empathy and feelings, whilst males are associated with logic and facts – because society says so. As a result, the sexes are treated differently and taught the art of emotional expression differently. Therefore, they cope with emotion differently and this is what had me questioning whether or not the ‘Nature’ trait is learned and effected by the environment.
Feeling males and Thinking females can be made to feel ‘wrong’ by not fitting into this societal preconception and may compensate by repressing the ‘wrong’ trait from an early age in order to ‘fit in’. Which is why I wondering what would happen to an individual’s personality if the ‘natural’ trait was repressed and if the ‘shadow’ trait would become more dominant to compensate.

But thanks to your links and input, I think I’ve come to a conclusion about the effect trauma and learned behaviour have on a personality. I think ultimately, if a Feeling individual is raised in a draconian and emotional repressed environment they may be taught, by society, or whoever put them in that situation to hide and repress their emotions. This makes them ‘fit’ the societal idea by appearing indifferent/cold/logical; but they still feel under the surface, even if they consciously try to ignore their emotions they will still subconsciously acknowledge them, which will impact their decisions. On the flip side a Thinking individual may be encouraged to consciously express their emotions and understand the emotions of others, making them more empathetic and warm externally, but ultimately logic still rules their subconscious and efficiency is more important than cooperation. A traumatic event may result in a certain element or personality trait being repressed, but it will never be eliminated and will always remain an intrinsic part of a person’s identity, even if it is only acknowledged subconsciously.

I hope that makes sense and that my (rather wobbly) conclusion is correct. Let me know what you think, I’d love to learn more and know your perspective Also, let me know if you think I’ve got this all wrong and/or am talking bollocks!
Thanks, hope you’re enjoying yourself too

 

[Little Gum]

Your username is kind of perfect, I would gladly describe myself as that.

Welcome from a fellow n00b!

 

[Altruistic Misanthrope]

@Little Gum thanks I love your picture xD

 

[Fumetsu]

Welcome, you seem quite knowlagable already.

I hope you don't consider this as me " whining" or whatever, but I can only speak to my own experiences.

After many, many years of denial I've accepted the fact that I in fact have some behavior brought up on trauma.

I'm an ENTJ 8w7. By nature, I do what I want,mI don't really care what people think of my behavior. Outside the home this remains true. But at home, no matter where or with whom I live, I have constant paranoya that I'm being watched and no matter who the other person, how passive, laid back they are, when they walk into the same room as me I get overly anxious and stop what I'm doing until they leave.
It's due to the constant fear that no matter how innocent the activity is, they are going to scream at or physically attack me doing so.

My Dad had some control/power issues. Growing up I was the only thing he felt he had any control over and...let's just say that this was obvious to even my very young self.

Anyway, it's rediculous. I am a grown woman, my husband is not an abusive asshole and yet getting over the unessecery anxiety seems impossible.

You say that that the behavior can never be completely undone but do you have any advice on making it more managable?

 

[Vunar]

TLDR

Hello,

This sounds like a complicated question, but the answer is obvious AF.

It used to be "Nature vs Nurture" whilst it is a combination of both.

Not only each personality is different but also they react to the same stimuli in different way and even more each person with the same personality will have different scores on the test. I score 100% on Introversion and I can spend days on my own and feel fine...ish. Other INFJ will have 60/40 for example and they will need more social interaction.

Everything is taken under consideration during the decision making process and it depends on way to many variables including emotions. Even when you decide to make a practical or logical decision you are already affected by emotions, because you made a decision to not follow or include them in your decision making process.

Imagine decision making process like playing dice but with few hundreds of them.

The illusion of control.

INFJ and INTJ are same, but different. Just like INFP

I have a feeling that you try to use MBIT to have better understanding of humans, but being labelled INFJ, INFP etc is just a tiny percentage of who a person is. Some don't even know themselves who they are.

Trauma and wrong upbringing makes humans behave differently to their personality profile and they may develop "unhealthy" one. Often they will suffer from symptoms of PTSD or C-PTSD, DID, OCD, psychosis, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, personality disorders and many other different mental health conditions.

I would say Identity depends a lot from upbringing and developing persons reward system. I'm -A and I know few -T. I compared parenting style and the methods of our parents and there is something that might look like a pattern.

 

[Amnesia]

@Amnesia Haha cheers

Whoa, thanks a lot! That is incredibly helpful, you could have fooled me about not being well-informed! Your input is much appreciated and the links were really useful too. Especially in reference to the INFJ's as they were actually the group I was thinking of when I was forming my questions.

Basically I was looking up both INTJ and INFJ personality traits and comparing how they view the world and respond to different situations. Obviously, they do have a lot of similarities as the only difference is their 'Nature' personality aspect; and (from my not-yet-fully-formed-opinion at least), Nature is probably the most pliable of all the aspects and the one most affected by the external environment and learned behaviours.

I'm not sure I'm making much sense... I’ll try and explain my reasoning.

Mind, Energy and Tactics are, from a very simplistic view, products of how your mind and brain work. There are no emotions involved at this stage. It's how you process information, how you make decisions, interact with people etc... and 'how' you tackle these things depends on whether you were born with a more analytical or imaginative mind. There are pros and cons to both, and whether one is ‘better’ or ‘worse’ is entirely situation dependent.
So, like you said, we adapt to our environment and revert back to what is natural when we leave it. Hence some people struggle with traditional school teaching methods, schedules, rules etc... and are branded 'disruptive' or 'slow' because their brains struggle to understand how the information is presented to them; yet in a different environment, that is more free, they are 'intelligent' and 'hard-working'. This is because their environment and the way information is being presented makes sense to their individual way of processing the world around them. Obviously we can learn to develop and use our shadow traits but they will always be less-dominant.

Nature, however, entangles your emotions - which makes things more complicated (isn't that always the way? ). Even the most logical, thinking personality is fuelled by their passions, (a passion for clarity and logic for example), and passion, like it or not, is an emotion. Emotions are innate, and are arguably one of the primary motivational systems. Whist they may be accused of being unfeeling, Thinking types do experience emotions (still waters run deep and all that), what differs between them and Feeling types, is how they cope with these emotions i.e. how they express them (or don’t express them).

Emotions are innate but emotional expression is learned, in both how we express specific emotions and which emotions we are allowed to express and to what extent. For example, male and female babies cry equal amounts; but when they grow the boys are told they’re not allowed to talk about their feelings and are told not to cry when they’re sad, girls however, are encouraged to cry and talk about their feelings. Society has decided what is acceptable behaviour for each sex and they have learned how to cope with their emotions according to these societal expectations. Managing these expectations is easier for some types than it is for others, and it may go part way to explaining why certain personality types have a more extreme male:female ration and vis versa. Females are often associated with empathy and feelings, whilst males are associated with logic and facts – because society says so. As a result, the sexes are treated differently and taught the art of emotional expression differently. Therefore, they cope with emotion differently and this is what had me questioning whether or not the ‘Nature’ trait is learned and effected by the environment.
Feeling males and Thinking females can be made to feel ‘wrong’ by not fitting into this societal preconception and may compensate by repressing the ‘wrong’ trait from an early age in order to ‘fit in’. Which is why I wondering what would happen to an individual’s personality if the ‘natural’ trait was repressed and if the ‘shadow’ trait would become more dominant to compensate.

But thanks to your links and input, I think I’ve come to a conclusion about the effect trauma and learned behaviour have on a personality. I think ultimately, if a Feeling individual is raised in a draconian and emotional repressed environment they may be taught, by society, or whoever put them in that situation to hide and repress their emotions. This makes them ‘fit’ the societal idea by appearing indifferent/cold/logical; but they still feel under the surface, even if they consciously try to ignore their emotions they will still subconsciously acknowledge them, which will impact their decisions. On the flip side a Thinking individual may be encouraged to consciously express their emotions and understand the emotions of others, making them more empathetic and warm externally, but ultimately logic still rules their subconscious and efficiency is more important than cooperation. A traumatic event may result in a certain element or personality trait being repressed, but it will never be eliminated and will always remain an intrinsic part of a person’s identity, even if it is only acknowledged subconsciously.

I hope that makes sense and that my (rather wobbly) conclusion is correct. Let me know what you think, I’d love to learn more and know your perspective Also, let me know if you think I’ve got this all wrong and/or am talking bollocks!
Thanks, hope you’re enjoying yourself too

Hi Altruistic Misanthrope, thank you so much for your prompt reply and valuable information! ^^ I agree with pretty much all of what you said, thanks for your valuable insights. Yes, you do make sense to me! I agree with your conclusion as well, thanks! I would also really agree with what @Vunar mentioned, about how people of the same personality types can react differently as well, due to the different percentages they score on the spectrum for the various traits. I also agree with the part about unhealthy function developments.

Although this is not very relevant, your response made me think about how someone's personality is formed, so much so that it is such an "intrinsic part" of the person's identity (as you mentioned), and does not change even after traumatic events. Is it somehow inborn, or if it is not, then when exactly does the personality of the person stop being influenced by the environment, and the person develops their own personality traits? Meaning to say if it is not inborn, then two newborns would develop different personality traits based on their different environments. But when exactly would their personality traits stop getting influenced by the environment, and they begin to have this set of functions where they develop slowly on while they mature then?

Sorry for my incoherence and irrelevance, and thank you for your prompt reply once again!

 

[melmargera78]

I'm new to this and don't know the abbreviations and what they mean.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[Vunar]

Although this is not very relevant, your response made me think about how someone's personality is formed, so much so that it is such an "intrinsic part" of the person's identity (as you mentioned), and does not change even after traumatic events. Is it somehow inborn, or if it is not, then when exactly does the personality of the person stop being influenced by the environment, and the person develops their own personality traits? Meaning to say if it is not inborn, then two newborns would develop different personality traits based on their different environments. But when exactly would their personality traits stop getting influenced by the environment, and they begin to have this set of functions where they develop slowly on while they mature then?

Sorry for my incoherence and irrelevance, and thank you for your prompt reply once again!

I think research on twins would be quite interesting. If they score the same on the test and if they score the same depending if they were separated at birth or for long periods of time for example when they marry and move away from each other.

 

[Amnesia]

@Vunar Yes, that would definitely be interesting and insightful, thanks!

 

[Amnesia]

I'm new to this and don't know the abbreviations and what they mean.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

By abbreviations are you referring to the MBTI types, such as INTJ and INFJ?

 

[melmargera78]

Yes! Help please.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[Belzy]

For example, if someone who is naturally a Feeling individual is brought up in an environment where emotions are viewed as a weakness, or they are forced to internalise them, does this Feeling trait protect itself by retreating? If so, does this mean the Thinking trait becomes more prominent to compensate? Or is Feeling still prominent and just not expressed? Does this oppression have any long term consequences on the individual; how they behave, view themselves and the world around them etc...?

When someone is naturally a Feeling individual but is brought up in an environment where emotions are viewed as a weakness and therefore (feels forced to) internalise them, then most essential for that person is to learn later on to express them anyway, to express him- or herself, because only then that person can accept his- or herself without fear of judgement; and if that person fails to keep doing that, then he or she will suffer more and more from psychologicly problems followed by physical problems which is a sign from body and mind that it's enough, and it's (past) time to finally listen to inner self instead to others, to avoid even more self-destruction because that will happen on the long term when one fails to let go all what he or she sucks up in life (which leads to a growing lack of inner peace).

I don't believe personality changes, but one can behave differently from it (out of fear - thanks to trauma yes), which is extremely unhealthy.

 

[Amnesia]

I think research on twins would be quite interesting. If they score the same on the test and if they score the same depending if they were separated at birth or for long periods of time for example when they marry and move away from each other.

Hi, I found this rather interesting website regarding this: https://mbtifiction.com/2016/03/09/nature-vs-nurture/#more-9206 !

 

[Amnesia]

Yes! Help please.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

Hi, it would be great if you could mention me in your reply like this: @Amnesia or by choosing the "reply with quote" option under my post. That would alert me that you replied under my notifications, thanks!

There is a really useful website that I think that would give you an accurate in-depth understanding of MBTI: Getting Oriented to Our Work

Another useful but simpler website: The Myers & Briggs Foundation - MBTI® Basics

For more detailed information about functions in MBTI, you can refer here: http://mbti-notes.tumblr.com/post/132284464867/type-dynamics-understanding-function-development

I hope you would find the links useful, all the best!

 

[Amnesia]

Sorry, please delete this blank post! >< (Or is there a way I could delete it myself)

 

[Altruistic Misanthrope]

Welcome, you seem quite knowlagable already.

I hope you don't consider this as me " whining" or whatever, but I can only speak to my own experiences.

After many, many years of denial I've accepted the fact that I in fact have some behavior brought up on trauma.

I'm an ENTJ 8w7. By nature, I do what I want,mI don't really care what people think of my behavior. Outside the home this remains true. But at home, no matter where or with whom I live, I have constant paranoya that I'm being watched and no matter who the other person, how passive, laid back they are, when they walk into the same room as me I get overly anxious and stop what I'm doing until they leave.
It's due to the constant fear that no matter how innocent the activity is, they are going to scream at or physically attack me doing so.

My Dad had some control/power issues. Growing up I was the only thing he felt he had any control over and...let's just say that this was obvious to even my very young self.

Anyway, it's rediculous. I am a grown woman, my husband is not an abusive asshole and yet getting over the unessecery anxiety seems impossible.

You say that that the behavior can never be completely undone but do you have any advice on making it more managable?

@Fumetsu Thank you for sharing, there is nothing about what you posted that could be considered 'whining' and if anyone ever tells you otherwise they deserve a slap. I think you are very brave in being able to acknowledge and discuss your past, no matter how many years have gone by.

I'm afraid I don't have any real advise on this, I have no qualifications or experience in this matter and can only tell you what others have told me and what I have found from my own personal experiences. Humans have a habit of internalising their trauma, where it festers and grows like a tumor. It builds up inside and we release it via unhealthy behaviours our brains develop as a way of coping with all this pent up emotion and fear. The only thing I can say with any honesty is that talking about it helps. Ignoring it won't make it go away, and I am sure you already know this, but it really does make it worse.

You can talk to a close friend, your husband or, (and this is the one I would recommend although it can be scarier and at times more frustrating), a trained professional like a counsellor.

This is clearly a very private matter to you and if I can work out how to do it, I will send you a private message where I will share some information that will hopefully be helpful to you and, if nothing else, you find it reassuring to know that you are not alone and your struggle is completely normal. As I am personally aware that sometimes we fear that there is something wrong with us when we experience and struggle with issues such as you have mentioned above, and just how frustrating it can be when you want nothing more than to be able to 'get over it' but are unable to do so.

I hope this helps and that the private message I will work on sharing with you will help more. Thank you again for taking the time and courage to share the above message.

 

[Altruistic Misanthrope]

Sorry, please delete this blank post! >< (Or is there a way I could delete it myself)

@Amnesia

I don't know how! Lets leave a blank post, we'll pretend it was intentional

 

[Altruistic Misanthrope]

I hope you would find the links useful, all the best!

@melmargera78 @Amnesia

These are great There are also lots of different quizzes you can do that give you more information and a better understanding of your own type that can then go on to help you understand others. Plus there is also a website called 16Personalities (I would link it but I'm too much of a babbie on this site, a quick google search should find it though!)

Which not only has a good quiz but a good overview of how the theory works, the abbreviations and an in-depth look into all of the different personality types. They also have some interesting articles @Amnesia has already linked me a couple that really helped out with my questions

Happy learning!