[Le9acyMuse]

For what merit the Enneagram system may have, I find it interesting making note of some patterns I see through it in myself. For instance, I'm a 4w3 that had found it easy to mistype myself as a 4w5, or as balanced between the two. Even today I can relate very much to the 4w5 subtype. I don't feel it is because of having a strong w5 leaning, but in the expression of my tri-type.

Generally, according to sources, the Seeker (4-6-9 combo) is introspective, philosophizing, and seeks the truth of the self (one's authenticity) as well as the truth of life, which can include any subject (ultimate meaning). The three withdrawn types, 4-6-9, altogether create uncertainty and a focus on thought energy. Personally, it's quite like being in a chronic trance.

The 4w5 subtype is described as tending more towards intellectuality (not intelligence, mind you) and introspection than the 4w3. Basically, they have significant cerebral energy that can lead to individualistic and disconnected pursuits and insights. They have more pride and less compromise in themselves, implying a lack of caring for social input. They'll willingly suffer for their self-image as it supports their idea authenticity. Also, if they create, they create more for themselves (as opposed to creating with an audience in mind).

As a 4w3 Seeker, I feel I differ from the 4w5 only as much as the tinge of their cerebral nature, which is the basic difference of the two. I find I have similar drives and impulses to the 4w5. I certainly care about social input, I must admit, but the Seeker seems to switch up my self-awareness from the 4w3's social balance to a more objective, intrapersonal-interpersonal balance. I willingly suffer for my identity, though I'm so aware of how I come off it makes me prone to eccentricity. I create with an audience in mind, but more for the best interpretation of the truth, at which point I create for nothing but the truth within and without myself. But then I have to show it off. lol I find the Seeker/4w5 resemblances kinda uncanny.

Has anyone noticed something like this with their tri-type and opposing subtype? Has it caused problems in self-typing?

 

[unico]

I feel the same way. I am also a 4-6-9 and used to think I was a 4w5.

 

[Le9acyMuse]

I wonder what it's like when a tri-type reinforces someone's subtype. Like a 4w5 Seeker. The "trance" + the closer relationship with cerebral 5 energy. It's like a Free Agent Seeker, whereas the 4w3 Seeker is like an Enigmatic Seeker. There's probably a case like this for every tri-type/subtype match. Like maybe...an 8w7 Mover-Shaker (3-7-8 combo). Also, 8w9s with this tri-type may find themselves relating to the 8w7 descriptions as well. 8w7 Mover-Shaker may be Radical. 8w9 Mover-Shaker may be Sublime.

Possibly?

 

[The Messenger]

Interesting thought pattern. I think 469 for the 4w3 has no particular exclusivity than other tritypes in being closer to 4w5 in motives/behaviour, though. After all, 4w3 with the 458/459/451 tritypes are much closer, actually having a 5 component in there.

The most 4w5-ish 4w3 is probably an introverted 458, and the most 4w3-ish 4w3 is probably the extroverted 478. I think any introverted 4w3 who came to this forum, initially mistyped themselves as a 4w5, me included. When my w3 was way more pronounced in the past, I don't see myself being active in this kind of place. This is actually the first forum I ever written/read as an actual active member.

You remind me of myself so much in digging further and looking for more connections and influences. I find myself doing mostly this kind of searching recently. For months now that I go outside the fixated written theory and try to theorize further.

 

[Le9acyMuse]

@Arienette A common way for a 4w3 to relate to 4w5 is being introverted? I would agree that this can be a common occurrence, as it happened with me as well, but I also didn't understand the Enneagram worth a hill of beans back then. I even thought my stacking was sp/sx, which bewilders me to this day. lol Once an understanding is internalized and explored, interesting patterns can jump out. The capacity that the Seeker and 4w5 each have to sink deep down into themselves to retrieve greater knowledge is significant, and even more so since I can testify to it as a 4w3 Seeker. Gives me the urge to see how the two compare and contrast in their ways and attributes, and how their findings may also differ. It's especially interesting when reading of the marked differences between the 4w3 and 4w5. I do think the Seeker and the 4w5 work to reinforce each other in more ways than the Seeker and the 4w3. Even the name "Seeker" rings of 4w5, while anything enigmatic might ring of 4w3.

True, there are other tri-types than the Seeker that could bring a 4w3 closer to being like a 4w5. It definitely is not exclusive. My interest just happens to be in how I feel I could understand where a 4w5 comes from, but from a standpoint more in touch with social dynamics, a form of intelligence in of itself. I know an ENFP 4w3 Messenger tri-type (4-7-8). I think I agree with you that that is a heavily 4w3-ish Aristocrat. And with sx/soc on top of that? X__x lol So, perhaps it'd be more effective to compare a 4w3 Scholar (4-5-8) with a 4w5 Messenger (4-7-8)? Too bad I don't personally know any 4w5s to begin with.

You and I both recognize that meaning is eternal and needs to be explored rather than accepted. Simply taking a word or symbol at face value is eating someone else's leftovers. People deserve to be nourished by their own unique cuisine. Who is more aware than us ourselves of what tastes the most palatable and meaningful? Even then, we can do so much more with it through absorbing universality as well as diversity, the spices of life. The possibilities are infinite.