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Discussion Starter #1
Hello guys,

For the longest time, I have been under stress. Long story short, lousy event after lousy event (all beyond my control) have led to worsened depression. And I've been depressed for as long as I can recall. Anyway, I've been feeling like kind of a 4 lately. Because I'm under stress, I:

-Find myself having excessive amounts of crying fits (could be a medication side effect or one of my health issues)
-Feeling overly jealous and resentful of others when they get things that I want but can't have (or may have to wait a while to get)
-Look for creative outlets, like reading, writing, and knitting. Pour my heart into them and get so perfectionistic that my creations get destroyed and I get even more upset (and feel more like a useless idiot)
-I listen to moody music endlessly these days. This is not a major habit of mine
-Become withdrawn when hurt and wish to stay withdrawn so I can figure myself out without others' interference

I sometimes wonder if I may be disintegrating to 4, based on these behaviours. Either that, or the depression has turned me into someone I no longer recognize. But I think I can understand how a 1 under stress can look like a 4. See, 1s have a sense of mission. In my case, I have a plan of how I'd like my life to go and what I'd like to achieve. I also am an opinionated, outspoken person (despite being shy- strange how those two qualities can mix). Sometimes, a person with a sense of mission, when under stress will go from saying, "Listen to this very specific thing I have to say" to "I have something to say, and I'm so stressed by it that I can't even remember what all the details are. But I have something to say, and I'd like you to hear it. " And then that can lead to something like the recitation of a poem, the telling of a story, or some other form of creative expression that is meant to convey some type of message. Under stress, it seems the 1 goes from a position of "This is my message", to "Listen, listen, listen! I have something to say and you're not hearing me!" At least, that is how this all feels to me.

Anyone else have a different idea of what a 1 disintegrating towards 4 may look like?
 

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You really need to calm down when you make mistakes and look at things in an objective way. The frustration and emotional burst combine really create an unhealthy tendency to lash out at yourself. You really need to keep a cool head and react most appropriately based on moving forward instead of spinning into a destructive trend. Sure, we all get frustrated but we only allow our emotions to hurt us as much as we let them.

LittleB81 said:
"Listen, listen, listen! I have something to say and you're not hearing me!" At least, that is how this all feels to me.
^ a little dramatic. I persuade people the best I can, but I understand they may have their own reasoning and I may not be correct from a different angle on the same issue though I'm right from mine. I don't take it too hard when people don't follow me, but I view it as an opportunity to speak logic to others and maybe they'll see things the way I do.


I also am an opinionated, outspoken person (despite being shy- strange how those two qualities can mix). Sometimes, a person with a sense of mission, when under stress will go from saying, "Listen to this very specific thing I have to say" to "I have something to say, and I'm so stressed by it that I can't even remember what all the details are. But I have something to say, and I'd like you to hear it. "
I consider myself quiet by choice, and not shy. I give it my best to give a solid explanation as to why I am right. I don't get flustered in my presentation of my point instead I try to seem helpful and caring.


-Find myself having excessive amounts of crying fits (could be a medication side effect or one of my health issues)
Can't identify with that. When enough things go wrong I often withdraw into something to escape my problems because what is done is done and you cannot change the past. If it is still time to strive to do right then I only experience frustration and tell myself I didn't do everything right, not up to standards.


-Feeling overly jealous and resentful of others when they get things that I want but can't have (or may have to wait a while to get)
Things that are not right are taken responsibility for and I try to understand how I could have used resources better to do better. Envy is not something I experience often because I realize I'm not great at everything and people can do things better than me in certain regards to gain. I have my ways and they have theirs, and I don't care what they gain because I walk my own path.


-I listen to moody music endlessly these days. This is not a major habit of mine
-Become withdrawn when hurt and wish to stay withdrawn so I can figure myself out without others' interference
^Definitely. It is used to identify with my anger, but I've found detachment from my anger is what is actually necessary. I understand the aggressive nature is inside of me and I'll use it as necessary, until then it can be put away.

Much of my personal psychological exploration has been due to trying to awaken a better part of myself which has shown itself at times. I think about the outer world when it is wrong and trace my actions in it to find the problems. So ya, all of it is about how I can be better.

Depression has always been there lightly for me, but I stay detached to be as rational as possible.
 

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@Wake, if your "light depression" is clinical, it *can't* be rationalized away. If something is causing depression, you *need* to know why. I don't like dealing with my emotions either, but if I don't, then I can't see how anything can improve for me. If it's just situational, then distraction is fine. But I still think it's good to know what is leading to depression, even if you're not dealing with a mood disorder.

Maybe all these behaviours are clinical depression gone worse (certainly could be, in my case). And I'm weaning off some pretty strong pain meds, so that also negatively affects my mood.
 

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@Wake, if your "light depression" is clinical, it *can't* be rationalized away. If something is causing depression, you *need* to know why. I don't like dealing with my emotions either, but if I don't, then I can't see how anything can improve for me. If it's just situational, then distraction is fine. But I still think it's good to know what is leading to depression, even if you're not dealing with a mood disorder.

Maybe all these behaviours are clinical depression gone worse (certainly could be, in my case). And I'm weaning off some pretty strong pain meds, so that also negatively affects my mood.
I don't know what to make of my chronic light depression, but the feelings and tendencies are not caused by problems comparable to yours.

Ya, take it easy and find a way to escape a little. I prefer video games to do this, particularly Dragon Age and Mass Effect series.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't know what to make of my chronic light depression, but the feelings and tendencies are not caused by problems comparable to yours.

Ya, take it easy and find a way to escape a little. I prefer video games to do this, particularly Dragon Age and Mass Effect series.
Sometimes, clinical depression doesn't have a specific *known* cause- for some, it seems to just happen. Likely due to a chemical imbalance in the brain. I believe this is called endogenous (sp?) depression, meaning that it's depression resulting exclusively from brain chemistry and nothing else. For many other sufferers genetics and negative environmental factors combine, leading to clinical depression.

I studied psychology, that is how I am able to remember this stuff.
 

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I can definitely relate to this. But I can also relate to disintegration of most other types as well. Enneagram is so confusing >.<
 

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I can definitely relate to this. But I can also relate to disintegration of most other types as well. Enneagram is so confusing >.<
Yeah, it can be confusing stuff. Most people seem to figure it out to some degree, though.

Reading the level 7 of type 4 description again, it sounds to me that that reaction is typical of a lot of depression sufferers, not just 4s.

What complicates things for me is that I have 4 in my tritype. So, it's normal for me to be a bit withdrawn and introspective. I've also loved creative outlets from a young age (they were there for me when people weren't), so that's normal for me, too. I'm very critical of my creations, too- to the point where I subconsciously end up destroying them. For instance, I'm an avid knitter. I love to work with my hands, and I love the idea of making my own clothing- it's very unique, and I love uniqueness. My last few knitting projects have ended up in complete disaster. I end up working on a project, find it's turning out well, get 99% of the way finished, and then...I make a *major* mistake. And the mistakes are so bad that I would end up having to re-start my project (and being depressed, I don't wish to do that after all my hard work, so I look for something new to create- and then end up messing *that* up).

Looking back at my life, I actually see many instances where I've mentally sabotaged myself out of good things. I wonder where the hell that tendency comes from?
 
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