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Discussion Starter #1
Can the 2w3's share their experiences of the 3-wing? How does it manifest in your life? Do you feel like a competitive person? Does it sometimes bring you insecurity?

There are two 2w3's that I know and they are both definitely competitive. On one hand, I really admire this side of them. It makes them ambitious and brings in confidence. The sky is the limit and they both work hard to achieve and gain new skills/talents. It can be very inspiring.

On the other hand, it seems that this can also open them up to insecurity since they can often get stuck in a "comparison" game of who is better. And when they feel down about it, it seems difficult that one can make them feel better. It really seems to crush them and my heart become sad too...until they find the energy and competitive spirit to try again, which they usually do.

Anyways, just wanted to know more and understand the experience of the 3-wing in the type 2 life. Hope there are those who can share!
 
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In my case I think the influence from my wing is something that I consciously repress while unconsciously I strongly admire traits related to E3s. I'm not competitive at all most of the time, but I do easily and often get caught up in the process of comparing my work to others and beating myself up for not being good enough and telling myself I'm worthless since I'm not amazing. Most people tell my my standards are too high, but -I- don't see it that way at all. While I pretend not to care about most things, I guess I actually do care quite a bit. I just accept that I have very limited control over them. One of my best friends in high school was a 3w2 and I felt like we actually mirrored each other. She was a perfectionist, control freak, and competition junkie who would never let herself be vulnerable even though she desperately wanted to.

I actually feel like the 2w1s I've met were quite a bit more competitive due to the 1 obsession with "correctness" and the ideal-seeking nature of the 1 vs. the approval-seeking nature of the 3. Whereas the 3s and Xw3 types I've known were generally content with something if they had given it their all and were proud of it (because it was 'acceptable') the 2w1s I've known were absolutely obsessive about the things they were usually "secretly" competing it. My former 2w1 coworker cheated to win pretty much every sales contest our work ever put on, a 2w1 friend of mine is absolutely obsessed with winning when our friends get together to play video games, and my mom who's a 2w1 gets competitive about the dumbest shit ever. But they all act like they're far too NICE to compete, they just HAPPEN to be that flawless! Riiiiiight.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Wow. What you revealed about 2w1s and their competitiveness is very interesting. Since you know a lot of 2w1s, do you often see huge differences between yourselves? @Cantarella
 

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Sure! Sorry lol, I had written a long response but my browser crashed before I could post it. Basically, the three wing contributes a desire to appear more worldly, whereas the one wing contributes a desire to appear perfect. So yes, I see a lot of difference, though the basic desire to be close to others and be part of their lives is still very present. 2w1s really are the true helpers, but also more prone to bouts of wrath when their help isn't being appreciated. 2w3s are more like the wannabe best friend who gets depressed when they're undervalued and starts looking for a new cause. It always seemed to me that 2w1s really need to be needed, whereas 2w3s only need to be wanted.
 

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Sure! Sorry lol, I had written a long response but my browser crashed before I could post it. Basically, the three wing contributes a desire to appear more worldly, whereas the one wing contributes a desire to appear perfect. So yes, I see a lot of difference, though the basic desire to be close to others and be part of their lives is still very present. 2w1s really are the true helpers, but also more prone to bouts of wrath when their help isn't being appreciated. 2w3s are more like the wannabe best friend who gets depressed when they're undervalued and starts looking for a new cause. It always seemed to me that 2w1s really need to be needed, whereas 2w3s only need to be wanted.
Do you think it is possible to have influences from both wings in a person? Have you ever personally seen it? Iam now trying to type this person I know, but both his 1 wing and 3 wing show based on your and other descriptions. He has a streak of perfectionism, but it mainly has to do with his artistry. He has high values and standards, but seems very much the description of wanting to be a best friend and would rather be wanted than needed. It is just the perfectionism that seems so out of character. People could tell him he did a great job, but if his inner soul isn't satisfied with his work, it don't matter much. But maybe that is just a normal human thing. Maybe that is a connection to 4? Cuz I know I feel this way if someone tells me a good job, but I myself am not so pleased with it.
 
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Do you think it is possible to have influences from both wings in a person? Have you ever personally seen it? Iam now trying to type this person I know, but both his 1 wing and 3 wing show based on your and other descriptions. He has a streak of perfectionism, but it mainly has to do with his artistry. He has high values and standards, but seems very much the description of wanting to be a best friend and would rather be wanted than needed. It is just the perfectionism that seems so out of character. People could tell him he did a great job, but if his inner soul isn't satisfied with his work, it don't matter much. But maybe that is just a normal human thing. Maybe that is a connection to 4? Cuz I know I feel this way if someone tells me a good job, but I myself am not so pleased with it.
That could be, though I'm not really sure? Generally I think someone's wing makes a PRONOUNCED difference in their personality. And I only know one 2w3 whereas I know a handful of 2w1s, including my mother, a close friend and a few former coworkers, all confirmed.

I think the perfectionism of each type (2w1 and 2w3) is different, because the perfectionism of the 2w1 is driven by the principled idealism of Type 1 whereas the perfectionism of the 2w3 is driven by Type 3's need for approval. 2w1 perfectionism comes closer to the definition of the word, and they get bitchy if their prowess isn't recognized, praised and rewarded (2>8, 1>4). I always ask my mom, "Do you want a gold star?" in these instances. The efforts of the 2w3 are aimed more at achieving mainstream success and appealingness. If they can't accomplish that they can turn depressed and hard to reach while acting self-indulgent and pessimistic (2>8, 3>9).
 

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I read the first line of this and I just HAD to comment. I am extremely competitive, it's just the way I am and it has it's ups and downs just like you said. Everything to me is a competition in fact just earlier today while I was looking through posts and didn't want to write a response because the response before was so good that I didn't want to even bother and be compared because it was so much better. I don't even like looking at lingerie sometimes because I'll start comparing myself to the models. It's a constant battle to feel like I need to be "the best" but whatever it's the 3 wing. Where the 2 def comes in is that I couldn't care less what random people think of me but when it comes to those who "matter"(to me of course) then it's like I have got to be #1 the best. Or else I'm useless and expendable and then what's my point in the world why do I even exist? If I can't give anything good to the world or special, to those who I really care about, then what's the point of anything. And I guess that sounds selfish when it's said, but it's not selfish I'm not a selfish person, I just want to feel like I have a purpose in the world just like everyone else does.
 

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Where the 2 def comes in is that I couldn't care less what random people think of me but when it comes to those who "matter"(to me of course) then it's like I have got to be #1 the best. Or else I'm useless and expendable and then what's my point in the world why do I even exist? If I can't give anything good to the world or special, to those who I really care about, then what's the point of anything. And I guess that sounds selfish when it's said, but it's not selfish I'm not a selfish person, I just want to feel like I have a purpose in the world just like everyone else does.
As @Animal can testify, I have said almost exactly this. I have to look good to the ones who matter, I have to be perfect, to be the best. It's not even a question of what worth I would have without it, I just have to be the best.
 
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As @Animal can testify, I have said almost exactly this. I have to look good to the ones who matter, I have to be perfect, to be the best. It's not even a question of what worth I would have without it, I just have to be the best.
Does that make it hard for you to be truly happy a lot of the times because you feel like you always have to live up to more and more?

Sometimes I feel like that, like no matter what I do it's not enough and it puts a block in the way of happiness.
 

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Does that make it hard for you to be truly happy a lot of the times because you feel like you always have to live up to more and more?

Sometimes I feel like that, like no matter what I do it's not enough and it puts a block in the way of happiness.
It certainly does. I wouldn't say that I'm truly unhappy when I see that I'm not the best at something, but it definitely drives happy thoughts away until I'm back on top once more.
 

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It certainly does. I wouldn't say that I'm truly unhappy when I see that I'm not the best at something, but it definitely drives happy thoughts away until I'm back on top once more.
Yeah, maybe pushes down your self worth or something? I don't know I feel a bit different so I'm trying to understand your point of view better.
 

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I think this is highly related to whether one is an Se type or not. My grandma is an ESFJ 2w3 and she's the person I'd consider the least competitive on this side of the planet that I know of. She doesn't have an ounce of competition in her. Instead, her 3 wing just exaggerates her need to please in the social and she loves attention so she can take care of everyone. Her ideal role would be some kind of housemother of an extremely large family that requires physical care and such, like an orphanage. The idea of competence is more to fulfill a social role in a competent way where everyone relies on her.
 

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Yeah, maybe pushes down your self worth or something? I don't know I feel a bit different so I'm trying to understand your point of view better.
It pushes away pretty much everything else, really. I just become super focused on improving until I've gotten good enough.

I think this is highly related to whether one is an Se type or not. My grandma is an ESFJ 2w3 and she's the person I'd consider the least competitive on this side of the planet that I know of. She doesn't have an ounce of competition in her. Instead, her 3 wing just exaggerates her need to please in the social and she loves attention so she can take care of everyone. Her ideal role would be some kind of housemother of an extremely large family that requires physical care and such, like an orphanage. The idea of competence is more to fulfill a social role in a competent way where everyone relies on her.
I don't know, I've never been typed as Se dominant, or even secondary (by my own typing or by others). I consistently type as either Fe or Pi dominant. Could be related to it, but I suspect your grandmother is likely either competitive in ways you don't see (such as being more able to take care of the family than anyone else) or not a 2.
 

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It pushes away pretty much everything else, really. I just become super focused on improving until I've gotten good enough.



I don't know, I've never been typed as Se dominant, or even secondary (by my own typing or by others). I consistently type as either Fe or Pi dominant. Could be related to it, but I suspect your grandmother is likely either competitive in ways you don't see (such as being more able to take care of the family than anyone else) or not a 2.
It doesn't have to be dominant. Check judicious vs decisive dichotomy is socionics.
 

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The three wing manifested for me when I was living with an ex. He was so unmotivated that it would drive me crazy. I eventually learned that I need to be around people who are at least slightly ambitious, like me.
 

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if you ask me, 2 is already pretty competitive before you add the 3 wing. 2s like to be center stage, so they need to best their competition to maintain the spotlight.
 

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I think this is highly related to whether one is an Se type or not. My grandma is an ESFJ 2w3 and she's the person I'd consider the least competitive on this side of the planet that I know of. She doesn't have an ounce of competition in her. Instead, her 3 wing just exaggerates her need to please in the social and she loves attention so she can take care of everyone. Her ideal role would be some kind of housemother of an extremely large family that requires physical care and such, like an orphanage. The idea of competence is more to fulfill a social role in a competent way where everyone relies on her.
she sounds more like a 2w1 Sp/So, but you're right about the Se vs Si (esp in Socionics). the gut fix plays a big role too imo
 

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I'm actually a 2w3 and it took me a long time to identify my heart center (which it's also my core). I could not see myself as altruistic as the book definition of the 2 as I felt a little obssessed with being "the best" which i identify as a very selfish attitude. In other hand, I could not consider myself as a 3 since I found it too cold and I am a very warm and loving person.
So I believe the 3 wing neutralizes the altruism of a pure 2 and that competitivity makes us be seen as more selfish than the 2 archetype while still being altruist.
Do you agree?
 
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