[Swordsman of Mana]

most of the type 3 males I've known are masculine and strong on the outside, but on the inside they usually have a strong feminine side. most are somewhat interested in fashion, have a taste for beauty (in some form or another) and have a much more "theatrical" side than most guys. I suppose this is why I tend to be attracted to them (I've had quite a few type 3 crushes in the past and make a game out of trying to bring out their hidden feminine side, which they often get defensive about if you bring it up to directly)

 

[SilentScream]

I suppose this is why I tend to be attracted to them (I've had quite a few type 3 crushes in the past and make a game out of trying to bring out their hidden feminine side, which they often get defensive about if you bring it up to directly)

I'm not feminine :dry:

:tongue:

I'm not secretive about it in front of my significant other for sure. But I do have a tendency to fall into the "macho protector" persona from time to time and cover any kind of emotional weakness with a false bravado of "All is well, cuz I'm too strong to be broken".

However, my feminine side may be more prominent than 'thinker' males being an NF [Fe-dominant] therefore I've learnt to balance it out. I allow my femininity to manifest itself through expressions of empathy and concern for my friends --- but that particular kind of empathy is reserved for my female friends.

Femininity in a male is not valued in occupations, and in some relationships - and therefore even though I consider it OK to be feminine, I will not show it if I can help it.

 

[The Scorched Earth]

I don't know if it could be considered masculine, but I'm not very emotionally expressive at all in public. Those who know me however, will say otherwise.

 

[Sara Torailles]

You might be meeting Type 2's, actually. Most people confuse Type 2 traits for Type 3.

For example, wanting overt admiration is mainly a Type 2 thing. Male Type 2's tend to be highly defensive about expressing their feminine side, and they will even tend to maintain an image of bravado in order to hide it. That is, until they grow to Type 4, and find ways to express their individuality.

Type 3 wants to distinguish himself as an achiever and be the best. In fact, Type 3's are often extremely stoic and non-dramatic, but they're motivated by success and maintaining an image of achievement. Getting ahead is the motivation for Type 3, not being admired.

Having a hidden feminine side isn't a particularly defining quality for Type 3's. Having a hidden oft-neglected, emotional side likely is, because 3's tend to stockpile their emotions in order to get ahead in life. If there's one word to describe the immature Type 3, it's not attention-seeking. It's Machiavellian.

 

[hackm]

I have a healthy feminine side. You may be right.

 

[The Scorched Earth]

Now that I think about it, there are a lot of parts of me that are pretty feminine. But then again, I keep it all secret.

 

[Swordsman of Mana]

I'm not feminine :dry:

:tongue:

I'm not secretive about it in front of my significant other for sure. But I do have a tendency to fall into the "macho protector" persona from time to time and cover any kind of emotional weakness with a false bravado of "All is well, cuz I'm too strong to be broken".

However, my feminine side may be more prominent than 'thinker' males being an NF [Fe-dominant] therefore I've learnt to balance it out. I allow my femininity to manifest itself through expressions of empathy and concern for my friends --- but that particular kind of empathy is reserved for my female friends.

Femininity in a male is not valued in occupations, and in some relationships - and therefore even though I consider it OK to be feminine, I will not show it if I can help it.

have you ever considered core 2w3?

 

[Swordsman of Mana]

You might be meeting Type 2's, actually. Most people confuse Type 2 traits for Type 3.

For example, wanting overt admiration is mainly a Type 2 thing. Male Type 2's tend to be highly defensive about expressing their feminine side, and they will even tend to maintain an image of bravado in order to hide it. That is, until they grow to Type 4, and find ways to express their individuality.

Type 3 wants to distinguish himself as an achiever and be the best. In fact, Type 3's are often extremely stoic and non-dramatic, but they're motivated by success and maintaining an image of achievement. Getting ahead is the motivation for Type 3, not being admired.

Having a hidden feminine side isn't a particularly defining quality for Type 3's. Having a hidden oft-neglected, emotional side likely is, because 3's tend to stockpile their emotions in order to get ahead in life. If there's one word to describe the immature Type 3, it's not attention-seeking. It's Machiavellian.

looking back on it, one in particular that I liked was actually probably a 2w3. you're right though, a lot of people attribute type 2 characteristics to type 3

 

[SilentScream]

have you ever considered core 2w3?

Based on one post, or all my posts on the forum? Or how about how I am in reality

 

[Swordsman of Mana]

Based on one post, or all my posts on the forum? Or how about how I am in reality

it seems like a great deal of your "3-ish" tendencies are really 2-ish tendencies. you work very hard to win the admiration and love of others, 3s are more in it for themselves and their own prestige/status, like @Torai was saying. I think you care a lot more about love and relationships than you do acclaim.

 

[hackm]

3s are more in it for themselves and their own prestige/status

That pretty much sums up everything I do in life.

 

[SilentScream]

it seems like a great deal of your "3-ish" tendencies are really 2-ish tendencies. you work very hard to win the admiration and love of others, 3s are more in it for themselves and their own prestige/status, like @Torai was saying. I think you care a lot more about love and relationships than you do acclaim.

Umm .. well .. duh. I'm an ENFJ. If you read both descriptions [even from the Jungian model alone], you'll notice a great deal of over-lap between Enneagram Type 2, and FeNi.

But what you said about "being in it for myself" ... is absolutely true. Helping people [other than my absolute closest friends], being supportive is a goal. For example, if a friend asks me to go out of my way to help her, the first thing I look at is how doing so would benefit both of us in the long run. Whether or not it fits in with my overall expectations of the friendship. If I don't help someone, then chances are no one else will ... but if there's someone else to do it, then I don't do it.

Friendships are important to me [aren't they to everyone?], but I like to keep them at my own pace and get plan/schedule when I want to get involved - until and unless its an extremely pressing need. I usually only seek company when I'm stressed, depressed or have nothing to do. At the moment, I'm unemployed and searching for work --- so in the meantime, I've made it my goal to learn how to relax, re-learn how to have relationships - which is what you're seeing in the forum.

3 years ago, I was completely engrossed in my work and marriage. There were only 2 goals in my life ... to succeed at my job and to be loved by my wife. They were conflicting goals, because succeeding at my job required workoholism, whereas succeeding at marriage meant that I gave my work less time. The conflict created a lot of confusion, conflict and arguments where I became completely fractured with my wife and told her to leave me because she just wasn't fulfilling the visions I had for my life. I was becoming 2 different people, and I was losing complete sense of myself. I needed to reflect on my own identity ... come to terms with how I really am and hence I explored this forum and have explored every nook and cranny of my personality.

Here's a little secret. When I first joined PerC, I saw the list of top posters. That moment, I got the urge to become the Member of the Month, as well as the #1 poster on PerC. And voila .. I made both things happen. Being anything but #1 doesn't compute. I have to be the best. I went to the best business school in the country, I joined the best Television Network in the country.

However, in 3w4-like fashion, once I reach my goal .. I'm almost always like "Oh man .. this doesn't feel as great as I thought it would" - and I find myself introspecting about my true worth as opposed to the worth others see in me. Lastly, I put on all kinds of masks ... the only person to have ever seen my real self is my current SO - and she believes I'm a 3w4. I shared the Enneagram with my mom and she confirmed I'm a 3 --- I also disintegrate to a 9 which is why I spent months trying to relate ... but the fact is .. that trying to relate and seeing all those different personalities within my personality is a sign that I'm a 3.

At the same time, I like to be envied by others. When it comes to my career, I do like helping people, but I'm much more focused on the end result. I don't mind stepping on a few toes, crushing a few egos if it leads to my own success ... but not to the point of doing anything wrong. I have an ethical/moral core which I don't deviate from [which may perhaps indicate that I may be more 1w9 than 8w9] - but I'm also extremely aggressive and confrontational.

I've faced a lot of failure that I don't want to talk about right now ... and also struggling with a disability which fucks my goals up every now and then. If I didn't have the disability, I KNOW I would've been one of the top Marketing Directors in Pakistan as I was meant to be - and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

And this is just not my career --- I like to be respected and admired. I like positive, real and deserved validation and affirmation ... but first I have to go out there and do something in order to earn it. And that validation does not have to come from having good relationships, or helping other people. It could be success at anything. It could be being appreciated for a new composition, a new poem. An article. A post on a forum. Everything adds a sense of completion to who I am and becomes a part of my little successes/achievements in life. Also, just being part of a successful venture, organization, top organization feeds back into my own sense of satisfaction and achievement. I look for little things to boast about, brag about - and they're not revolved around people.

 

[Swordsman of Mana]

Umm .. well .. duh. I'm an ENFJ. If you read both descriptions [even from the Jungian model alone], you'll notice a great deal of over-lap between Enneagram Type 2, and FeNi.

But what you said about "being in it for myself" ... is absolutely true. Helping people [other than my absolute closest friends], being supportive is a goal. For example, if a friend asks me to go out of my way to help her, the first thing I look at is how doing so would benefit both of us in the long run. Whether or not it fits in with my overall expectations of the friendship. If I don't help someone, then chances are no one else will ... but if there's someone else to do it, then I don't do it.

Friendships are important to me [aren't they to everyone?], but I like to keep them at my own pace and get plan/schedule when I want to get involved - until and unless its an extremely pressing need. I usually only seek company when I'm stressed, depressed or have nothing to do. At the moment, I'm unemployed and searching for work --- so in the meantime, I've made it my goal to learn how to relax, re-learn how to have relationships - which is what you're seeing in the forum.

3 years ago, I was completely engrossed in my work and marriage. There were only 2 goals in my life ... to succeed at my job and to be loved by my wife. They were conflicting goals, because succeeding at my job required workoholism, whereas succeeding at marriage meant that I gave my work less time. The conflict created a lot of confusion, conflict and arguments where I became completely fractured with my wife and told her to leave me because she just wasn't fulfilling the visions I had for my life. I was becoming 2 different people, and I was losing complete sense of myself. I needed to reflect on my own identity ... come to terms with how I really am and hence I explored this forum and have explored every nook and cranny of my personality.

Here's a little secret. When I first joined PerC, I saw the list of top posters. That moment, I got the urge to become the Member of the Month, as well as the #1 poster on PerC. And voila .. I made both things happen. Being anything but #1 doesn't compute. I have to be the best. I went to the best business school in the country, I joined the best Television Network in the country.

However, in 3w4-like fashion, once I reach my goal .. I'm almost always like "Oh man .. this doesn't feel as great as I thought it would" - and I find myself introspecting about my true worth as opposed to the worth others see in me. Lastly, I put on all kinds of masks ... the only person to have ever seen my real self is my current SO - and she believes I'm a 3w4. I shared the Enneagram with my mom and she confirmed I'm a 3 --- I also disintegrate to a 9 which is why I spent months trying to relate ... but the fact is .. that trying to relate and seeing all those different personalities within my personality is a sign that I'm a 3.

At the same time, I like to be envied by others. When it comes to my career, I do like helping people, but I'm much more focused on the end result. I don't mind stepping on a few toes, crushing a few egos if it leads to my own success ... but not to the point of doing anything wrong. I have an ethical/moral core which I don't deviate from [which may perhaps indicate that I may be more 1w9 than 8w9] - but I'm also extremely aggressive and confrontational.

I've faced a lot of failure that I don't want to talk about right now ... and also struggling with a disability which fucks my goals up every now and then. If I didn't have the disability, I KNOW I would've been one of the top Marketing Directors in Pakistan as I was meant to be - and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

I see, well, at least, based on this, you sound like a 3 with a (heavy) 2 wing as opposed to 3w4.

 

[SilentScream]

I see, well, at least, based on this, you sound like a 3 with a (heavy) 2 wing as opposed to 3w4.

Hmm ... I haven't ruled out the possibility of a 2 wing. But it's not something I'm concerned with anymore. Honestly, I'm kinda done with Enneagrams and MBTI ... There's a sense of completion here that I achieved a long time ago, and nitpicking at "this more", or "this less" really is meaningless to me. This is another reason why I've stopped gone around this forum touting my opinion on what certain types are like, or certain types are not like. That would be narcissistic, and just confuses people more.

 

[Boxter9]

I'm not really the crunchy-on-the-outside, chewy-on-the-inside doughnut person the OP described. I'm chewy all over. Om nom nom.

Admittedly, I have a different sense of what constitutes "gender identity"... my mom is really feminist. In fact, every girl I've ever fallen for has been feminist, which is to say they wore their confidence pants and didn't let dudes lord over them. When I was a kid my parents let me play with Ken dolls; there was another, larger doll which I would carry everywhere and take excellent care of (I always made sure to buckle its seat belt, lol). The theory was that since girls are taught to be good mothers from a young age, boys should be taught to be good fathers. Also I desperately wanted pink pajamas. Aaand my favorite shirt currently is a pink button-up.

Sometimes I got in trouble in elementary school for kissing boys ^_^ Though maybe that wasn't as much romantically driven as ADD-driven. Their faces... oh god so funny.

AND YET WHEN I TELL PEOPLE I'M KIND OF GIRLY THEY'RE LIKE: "... huh? No you're not." Even when confronted with this flood of evidence they still manage to remain hypnotized by the macho rock star hyper-intelligent quasi-Tom Cruise face that I present to the world.

*awkward silence* Ok OP I guess you were right all along. Ssh.

 

[Airy]

@Jawz I thanked your post, did I help you feel successful? :tongue: It was a genuine thanks though, very insightful and honest post =).

 

[SilentScream]

@Jawz I thanked your post, did I help you feel successful? :tongue: It was a genuine thanks though, very insightful and honest post =).

@Airy .. your thanks came at the perfect time Ironically, this was the one post that I wasn't expecting to get thanked by anyone o.0



PS. Yess .. I admitz itz ... I love my thanks :blushed:

 

[Airy]

and judging by your disproportionate amount of posts versus thanks and your previous post, is it safe to assume you think about what you say in order to garner more thanks? I know I do hah.

 

[SilentScream]

and judging by your disproportionate amount of posts versus thanks and your previous post, is it safe to assume you think about what you say in order to garner more thanks? I know I do hah.

I definitely think a lot about what I want to say .. I mean, it's just naturally how Ni works ... but is my intention / motivation purely to get thanks? No.

For me, when I first came on, even though I decided to become one of the top posters, it wasn't my core motivation. I think there's more to "motivations" than enneagram enthusiasts would like to believe. People can have multiple motivations for doing what they do, even though it may all seem to be coming from one central desire.

There are many ways to be genuinely successful and appreciated on this forum ... and one of the best ways of being successful is by being genuine.

I came to PerC to learn to take off my masks and round off my personality and I believe I've been able to do so successfully. Other than a few people who've misjudged me, I have made a genuine impact here --- on others' lives as well as learnt to be more 'real' myself

 

[Airy]

Can't agree more with your last point. By being genuine and more open (less/no masks) you feel a deeper sense of positivity when people acknowledge, accept and or thank you than is achievable with all those masks on.

About 3's being more feminine, I can see why they might be more feminine but it would be interesting to know which came first. Are they more feminine because some aspects of success demand knowledge in more feminine areas like fashion? Or did they already posses these traits that helped shape them towards being a 3?