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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If the type 4 descriptions describe you, and you identify as a 4, I say that's great. Now, what awareness of yourself do you acknowledge apart from the 4, and outside of any personality theory? I haven't quite reflected on this myself.

Ask yourself that while remembering how the Enneagram's motivations, MBTI's cognitive functions, Instinctual Variants' stackings, and so on, don't make you who you are. Human patterns explain pieces of our bodies and minds, but I doubt any of these touch on whatever may, or may not, be beyond (soul, destiny/fate, nothing/something). Whatever that 'beyond' horizon is would define a huge part of us. Our opinions of that horizon mold us even more.

So, who are you apart from the labels? Of what of yourself are you aware of beyond the theories? Do you not know, but use the theories to find out? Don't know, don't care, just live?

I really need to think about my own answer to this question.. I love cogent theories, whether my own or others', and they're majorly part of how I explore life. Apart from them, how do I see myself?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Crap.... I... I don't know the answer. I really don't know what I see of myself outside of what I do. I just associate myself with the things I do. Asking questions, finding and seeking answers... but what am I aware of as far as who I think I am apart from that... Nothing.

The hell?
 

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Crap.... I... I don't know the answer. I really don't know what I see of myself outside of what I do. I just associate myself with the things I do. Asking questions, finding and seeking answers... but what am I aware of as far as who I think I am apart from that... Nothing.

The hell?
Maybe you should be:

The Inquirer
 

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Crap.... I... I don't know the answer. I really don't know what I see of myself outside of what I do. I just associate myself with the things I do. Asking questions, finding and seeking answers... but what am I aware of as far as who I think I am apart from that... Nothing.

The hell?
I don't even understand this entirely, because what else can we be besides what we do? Of course "do" can mean a lot of things, like what we create, give, understand, know, love. Other than what we do, what else IS there? The whole "what's beyond" thing might answer that for some people, maybe spiritual or religious people in particular, but I am neither of those.

I just... who am I outside of personality theory? Honestly I *don't* see myself as my personality types. I just see myself as... some truly trivial person existing on this overpopulated planet, who possesses empathy and intellect, is insecure and overly sensitive and full of flaws. I see myself as a human who, like other humans, is probably full of unrealized power and potential and strength, but I have no idea how to truly tap into that (which is the case for most people).

I see myself as a very privileged person, living in a developed nation known as the United States, who really only has first world problems, who is selfish, underachieving. I am wasting my potential perhaps even more than the average person with a similar background or setup. I impact people, I have loved ones, I have hurt others, I can make a difference in small ways. I have a huge capacity to love and learn, my curiosity is insatiable, but I'm paralyzed in terms of actual action. I am someone who hates needless suffering and sees it everywhere, wants to eliminate it but struggles to make it through the day sometimes. I'm really very mediocre and insignificant.

That's who I really am, past all masturbatory personality analyses. With all the amazingly complex and interconnected systems that make up our world, through all of time and history (of this planet, which is also unfathomably insignificant and temporal), for all the amazing things that have happened, from the emergence of human consciousness, despite or in spite of nature, for all the paradigm shifts and the evolution of culture... a particular DNA combination has somehow come together to make Me. But I may as well not have ever existed, ultimately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Maybe you should be:

The Inquirer
I think I see where you're coming from. My conundrum makes that problematic even still. I've had this philosophy about avoiding the human habit of over-associating people with their actions, such as labeling one a murderer, stupid, evil or even good. No-one is the epitome of such things. Deeds seem expressions, and representations of interests. Really, I could choose whatever label I wanted and go with it, whether it described my actions or not.

Why would I do that? I dunno. I dunno why I'd choose my identity by my occupation either. It's sorta the same. If I ever couldn't be occupied the same way anymore, then my life would be meaningless 'til I picked something else. It sounds almost arbitrary calling myself by my career or hobby, unless it satisfies me. I guess it had, but I'd never thought of it before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I don't even understand this entirely, because what else can we be besides what we do? Of course "do" can mean a lot of things, like what we create, give, understand, know, love. Other than what we do, what else IS there? The whole "what's beyond" thing might answer that for some people, maybe spiritual or religious people in particular, but I am neither of those.
I tried to use 'beyond' as an umbrella term for every possible concept. It generally could mean anything outside of perception, since we don't know everything about life behind, presently or ahead. Some may say it's spiritual, others may say it's all we perceive now and nothing more, and other ideas.

I'm wary of connecting people with their actions. Labels and such. Someone can run, be called a runner, philosophize and be called a philosopher, and not be rightfully designated. One chooses to be fine with a label. I felt fine before thinking of myself via what I do, but I realize I don't live to hold up this identity based on seeking answers. I simply love to do it. It would be circular to base who I am off of what I do. I'd work and live from success to success, and without success I'd have no sense of myself. That's kind of what 4s do, come to mention it.

I just... who am I outside of personality theory? Honestly I *don't* see myself as my personality types. I just see myself as... some truly trivial person existing on this overpopulated planet, who possesses empathy and intellect, is insecure and overly sensitive and full of flaws. I see myself as a human who, like other humans, is probably full of unrealized power and potential and strength, but I have no idea how to truly tap into that (which is the case for most people).

I see myself as a very privileged person, living in a developed nation known as the United States, who really only has first world problems, who is selfish, underachieving. I am wasting my potential perhaps even more than the average person with a similar background or setup. I impact people, I have loved ones, I have hurt others, I can make a difference in small ways. I have a huge capacity to love and learn, my curiosity is insatiable, but I'm paralyzed in terms of actual action. I am someone who hates needless suffering and sees it everywhere, wants to eliminate it but struggles to make it through the day sometimes. I'm really very mediocre and insignificant.

That's who I really am, past all masturbatory personality analyses. With all the amazingly complex and interconnected systems that make up our world, through all of time and history (of this planet, which is also unfathomably insignificant and temporal), for all the amazing things that have happened, from the emergence of human consciousness, despite or in spite of nature, for all the paradigm shifts and the evolution of culture... a particular DNA combination has somehow come together to make Me. But I may as well not have ever existed, ultimately.
So, you're someone interested in transformation, yet aware of your fallibility, and thus, inability, to captain, or usher, the change you idealize. I suppose this is connected to what you aim to do, which is be or supply a significant contribution to the world. Wouldn't your failure to achieve these ideals lead you on an everlasting journey? You'd forever attempt to (re)manifest yourself into new forms finding you're unable to accomplish something else.

That's pretty much my issue in this thread. I know what I want to do, but if what I do consumes me, then what is it I think I am? If I never achieve what I set out to do, am I a failure? Who are we apart from our aspirations? I see you answered in a way that encompasses your life, and many lives, objectively. I could also see your answer was overshadowed by your unfulfilled intentions. Do your intentions truly make you, or should we have another sense of ourselves not connected to something we could fail at?

I'd also point out that this tendency to 'do,' fall short of goals, and feel inferior due to it, is connected to the Enneatype 4. Forgive me if my analysis is out of line.
 

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Leave it to an INFJ to ask a question and shoot his own foot in the process... I'm trying to figure out an answer for this problem. Yor latest reply to my post totally made it clear what you're trying to get at here. Now I have the same problem you have. Thanks a lot. :unsure:
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
heh Anytime, bro. Truly, though, this feeling kinda aches, so I apologize. However, I like knowing there's something for me to think more on that I've probably neglected since I was small.
 
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