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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have 3 reasons for making this thread:

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1. I came across some journals that contain a great deal of internal reflection that I want to share from the point of view of purposefully having them thrashed and discussed and taken apart. I also feel like sharing them.

2. My mind is clouded with regards to my past and I want to discuss it openly here which may reveal some deeper insight.

3. This is my final "check" to confirm my tritype --- without any steretypes. I'm not really questioning my type - but if these journals shed any doubts, please feel free to share them with me.

These are my journals I wrote well before I was ever introduced to the world of MBTI and Enneagrams, therefore they are "pure" and uncontaminated - and therefore may even make people's job easier:

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Journal #1 -- Written 2007 [Just before my marriage]

Yes, I’m living and have lived every man’s dream. If seen from the eyes of some one who has less.

I am not ungrateful to God for all that he has given me. He has truly given me a bit of everything there is in life. Talent, the gift of music, a healthy over achieving mind, a philosophical mind, a strong, mature family, 1 of every kind of relation that exists, a job with a strong career possibility. Most importantly, a fiancé whom I love more than life itself.

But, somewhere down the road, something went terribly wrong. Even though I have continued living, have managed to achieve success in life so far, I haven’t had the desire to live since I was 13. There have only been 6 short periods in my life when I was truly happy and I wanted to live, live, live. The first was my last year in Pakistan when I finally had friends. Then when I was madly in love with a girl, even though I knew she could never be mine. Then when I came back to Pakistan, and met a cousin whom I had never seen in my life, and we immediately hit it off. Then, my last year in Canada, and my first in Pakistan, and finally the first few months of my engagement.

But the feeling of wanting to end my agony exists. But what agony? I don’t have a right to be sad, but I am. Every other day, every other day, is the same. I don’t want to live like this. I cannot live like that. I want to end it at every other breath. I dream, and I want, and I can’t seem to get over it at all. I wish I could just end my life, right here, right now.

But then, I have to realize I have other people waiting for me. I cannot breathe sometimes. I suffocate. I cannot socialize. I choke. I sputter. I want to die. But I cannot because I have a life. I don’t know what I want. I’d much rather be dead, than living a life I cannot control. I’d much rather have been a man without feelings, without. I would’ve preferred a life where I had nothing as compared to the life where I have everything. Every time I want more, something goes wrong. All I ever wanted was a companion. And even my fiancé cannot give me that.

After engagement, the period of my life that was supposed to have been the greatest, happiest period has turned into the worst of my life. Every bit of my love that I had stored for my one true love has poured out of every inch of my heart, my mind, my sound and my body. Too much too soon? Or too little?

The life that I had promised myself has never really come into realization, and I don’t think it ever will. Not with the amount of interference I have faced already. Everyone has promised that life will change, that no one will interfere. But I don’t suppose that will happen. There is really no reason left for me to imagine a brighter future. There is really no reason left for me to dream of a better life.

------

Journal #2 - Written sometime in 2005 about my childhood [I was at my healthiest in 2005, and this is an extremely accurate view of myself].


My exams were immediately after my operation. I still wrote them. And I secured a top 5 rank in my class. My parents never really regarded me as being that smart. My elders were the geniuses of the family. I always said that I don’t care about academic accolades, but in actuality, I really wasn’t that smart. I didn’t try hard either, but I always wanted to be the one who got first prize. I also wanted to be regarded as another genius of the family. But I learned to live with not being one even though I may have been one. I was too scared to find out so I avoided it at all costs.

I was generally a carefree child even though academically, or even socially I was never that strong - or felt that I wasn't in comparison to my elder siblings. Perhaps I could’ve been, but I didn’t want to fail – therefore I decided to under-perform so that my parents wouldn’t levy unachievable expectations on me and so that I could really surprise people with my success, when I got it.

Others always regarded me as an off-shoot of my over brilliant mother, father and siblings. I always lived under their shadow. Always following, always looking up to them and being wowed by their success. I never came first in class, I didn’t read books, I didn’t go out and play with my friends – so naturally, I turned to music and really enjoyed creating it. The one thing that got me my mother’s admiration and even though I told everyone not to praise me, I secretly loved it.

Otherwise, I was a pretty boring child. Well, that’s what others believed about me anyways. In fact, that’s the impression I gave of myself to others. I never projected myself as brilliant. I guess, my greatest achievement of all was my ability to hide my true feelings, lock my emotions and keep my own brilliance hidden. I loved my pets. They made me feel connected to this world. But at that time, at that age, I was never really concerned about anything. I didn’t want toys, I didn’t know the latest toys. All I knew, was that I would go to school and then return home, meet the family, be with my parents and siblings. As a child of 6 or 7, I did not have any dreams. I never thought about what I would become when I grew up. I never had an answer to that question. And frankly speaking, my years in this world have taught me not to expect anything from anyone, including myself.

I regarded my life as a passing phase. Each new day brought with it the same old routine adventures. I grew older, just like the tree that increases in height every year, but attains not much else in stature. I did not have friends, and being a slave of conventions, I never broke apart from what I was told to do. Would I have broken away if I had had the chance? But really, at age 10, I had no worries, no interest in life. It was a carefree but mundane existence, in a world where every one else always seemed to have more friends than I did.

---

Any insight would be appreciated.
 

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3w2 So/Sx 3w2>7w6 or 6w7>9w?

this post, as well as the majority of your other posts, expresses a strong emphasis on personal relationships and the crucial role they play in your life. 3w4s are a little more "separated" so to to speak. they withdraw inward to deal with their emotional pain and find solace from the grind of daily life in solitude with their emotions. they are more withdrawn, private and reserved than the 3w2, who places higher priority in companionship, admiration and belonging and, where the 3w4 turns inward, the 3w2 turns outward toward their peers/social group and family for solace and comfort when they need to take a breather.

perhaps @Boss can explain better

Edit: on a strictly subjective note, 3w4s are cold/icy and 3w2s warm/fiery. you're definitely warmer than cold
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
SOM ... thanks :) ... If I'm a 3, then I'm most likely balanced. What confuses me the most however is suicide ideation - minus the attempts.

1. Everyone will be sorry that I'm gone
2. I just don't want to live because I can't do what I want in life.
3. I'd rather die than fail in life and live with regrets
4. I'm worthless and taken for granted and I hate people because they don't care about me. So I'd rather die than live with this kind of emotional dependency
5. I'm already a failure and I'll fail over and over again. I can't hide that fact forever.
6. Suicide is the ultimate escape from all of life's difficulties.
7. I want to commit suicide but now I can't because my brother attempted it and if I do the same, then I would be just like him. Therefore I will only do it when I'm ready and will make sure that it'll work!
8. I enjoy playing scenarios in my head revolving around my death and how others will take it and react to it. How my suicide will impact them. I see people mourning my loss ... or being happy for me ..
9. I'm just plain tired of trying too hard to be what others want me to be and I'm no longer who I want to be ... death is the only option.
 

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@Jawz, are you actually serious when talking about those things? If you are, I wonder why no-one else has replied to this! Hey, I don't know much about you but OMG your life is so incredibly precious that killing yourself would be SUCH a waste...

Well, I'm going to think that was only ideation like you said... Because I believe every soul here has some kind of meaning and task. Do you feel you have given all you got, that you are done here? I honestly doubt that. There are always new things, new people, new adventures. Sure, I believe what was said by captivating A. Dumbledore: After all, to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure. But frankly, you can find your adventures here too ^_^

About your Enneagram issues... I wonder whether you are a Six after all. Like I said, I don't really know you. Based on your previous posts I'd say 6w7. I know what at least one kind of unhealthy 6w7 might be like. I'm not at all good at detecting the main motivations of other people but you just expressed questioning and especially questioning yourself and somehow the tone of those writings made me think of 6w7 :)
 

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Hm... yeah... you could be desintegrated 6w7 afterall...with a strong 3 fix. Or the other way round. :confused: It's probably hard to spot a 3...they might just be projecting an image (haha, sorry...just a thought :wink:)...and 6w7 (even if you don't know about the Enneagram) could be something a 3 would want to be seen as... but the childhood stuff doesn't sound so much like 3 to me...but then again: I'm not a 3 expert.
 
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Journal #1 -- Written 2007 [Just before my marriage]

Yes, I'm living and have lived every man's dream. If seen from the eyes of some one who has less. I am not ungrateful to God for all that he has given me. He has truly given me a bit of everything there is in life.

Talent, the gift of music, a healthy over achieving mind, a philosophical mind, a strong, mature family, 1 of every kind of relation that exists, a job with a strong career possibility.

Most importantly, a fiancé whom I love more than life itself.

But, somewhere down the road, something went terribly wrong. Even though I have continued living, have managed to achieve success in life so far, I haven't had the desire to live since I was 13. There have only been 6 short periods in my life when I was truly happy and I wanted to live, live, live. The first was my last year in Pakistan when I finally had friends. Then when I was madly in love with a girl, even though I knew she could never be mine. Then when I came back to Pakistan, and met a cousin whom I had never seen in my life, and we immediately hit it off. Then, my last year in Canada, and my first in Pakistan, and finally the first few months of my engagement.
In this I see: NiFe i.e.: I should be happy sounds like it's coming from your superego--the expectations set for you by society. 6w7 or 4w3 so far.

But the feeling of wanting to end my agony exists. But what agony? I don't have a right to be sad, but I am.
Very NiFe here. I should be...My emotional world should match up with societal expectations for my emotions.
But I've heard Angelina Jolie say the same thing and she's a 6w7 so/sx.

Every other day, every other day, is the same. I don't want to live like this. I cannot live like that. I want to end it at every other breath. I dream, and I want, and I can't seem to get over it at all. I wish I could just end my life, right here, right now.

But then, I have to realize I have other people waiting for me. I cannot breathe sometimes. I suffocate. I cannot socialize. I choke. I sputter. I want to die. But I cannot because I have a life. I don't know what I want. I'd much rather be dead, than living a life I cannot control. I'd much rather have been a man without feelings, without. I would've preferred a life where I had nothing as compared to the life where I have everything. Every time I want more, something goes wrong. All I ever wanted was a companion. And even my fiancé cannot give me that.

After engagement, the period of my life that was supposed to have been the greatest, happiest period has turned into the worst of my life. Every bit of my love that I had stored for my one true love has poured out of every inch of my heart, my mind, my sound and my body. Too much too soon? Or too little?

The life that I had promised myself has never really come into realization, and I don't think it ever will. Not with the amount of interference I have faced already. Everyone has promised that life will change, that no one will interfere. But I don't suppose that will happen. There is really no reason left for me to imagine a brighter future. There is really no reason left for me to dream of a better life.
Now I'm sensing a dip into that five from somewhere else. Could be from either core 4 or 6 either way, could be an 8 wing/instinct crumbling, too. Wanting to be in control of your own life could be the urge of 4 to pull into 1, dipping into 5 from a wing, or an 8 wing/instinct.

So far I've seen: 3, 4, 6, a sprinkle of 8, and a drop of 5.

Journal #2 - Written sometime in 2005 about my childhood [I was at my healthiest in 2005, and this is an extremely accurate view of myself].

My exams were immediately after my operation. I still wrote them. And I secured a top 5 rank in my class. My parents never really regarded me as being that smart. My elders were the geniuses of the family. I always said that I don't care about academic accolades, but in actuality, I really wasn't that smart. I didn't try hard either, but I always wanted to be the one who got first prize. I also wanted to be regarded as another genius of the family.But I learned to live with not being one even though I may have been one. I was too scared to find out so I avoided it at all costs.

I was generally a carefree child even though academically, or even socially I was never that strong - or felt that I wasn't in comparison to my elder siblings. Perhaps I could've been, but I didn't want to fail; therefore I decided to under-perform so that my parents wouldn't levy unachievable expectations on me and so that I could really surprise people with my success, when I got it.

Others always regarded me as an off-shoot of my over brilliant mother, father and siblings. I always lived under their shadow. Always following, always looking up to them and being wowed by their success. I never came first in class, I didn't read books, I didn't go out and play with my friends; so naturally, I turned to music and really enjoyed creating it. The one thing that got me my mother's admiration and even though I told everyone not to praise me, I secretly loved it.

Otherwise, I was a pretty boring child. Well, that's what others believed about me anyways. In fact, that’s the impression I gave of myself to others. I never projected myself as brilliant. I guess, my greatest achievement of all was my ability to hide my true feelings, lock my emotions and keep my own brilliance hidden. I loved my pets. They made me feel connected to this world. But at that time, at that age, I was never really concerned about anything. I didn’t want toys, I didn’t know the latest toys. All I knew, was that I would go to school and then return home, meet the family, be with my parents and siblings. As a child of 6 or 7, I did not have any dreams. I never thought about what I would become when I grew up. I never had an answer to that question. And frankly speaking, my years in this world have taught me not to expect anything from anyone, including myself.

I regarded my life as a passing phase. Each new day brought with it the same old routine adventures. I grew older, just like the tree that increases in height every year, but attains not much else in stature. I did not have friends, and being a slave of conventions, I never broke apart from what I was told to do. Would I have broken away if I had had the chance? But really, at age 10, I had no worries, no interest in life. It was a carefree but mundane existence, in a world where every one else always seemed to have more friends than I did.

Any insight would be appreciated.
I see 6w7 so/sx and 4w3 so/sx. Both of which look at what society wants and then thinks about what they want. But more 6w7 so/sx than anything else.

And then instincts, I've read and I really believe this, can only be discerned from how you go about your daily routine. Like your habits.

641 is the philosopher, btw. But honestly, only you really know.

6w7 so/sx isn't like other 6's. Just from what I've seen of them, they're pretty rare and they have the warmth and receptivity of the 9, the desire to be seen as something of value like a 3 (as well as the ability to project image), and the sort of intensity of the secondary sx instinct combine to incorporate the passionate and reflective nature of the 4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well .. I recently read somewhere that the 6 in the 369 triad is most likely to see himself/herself as a 3 ... It's also the ideal Id, Superego and Ego triad where the connection of the 3 is close enough to not be determinable. The 3 masks and projections surrounding the image are strong enough a similar questioning and lack of awareness of the self is possible.

It's a toss up and perhaps will be for a long time. I do know that this is my triad. The order so far is most likely 369 [which balanced wings of the 3 as well] Dunno how possible / likely that is however.

When you think about it .. everyone does have all parts of the enneagram anyways. According to Tritype theory, everyone has 3 fixes each with 1 wing .. so that's supposedly possible motivations of 6 E-types ... there's also a theory that people have possible traits of both adjacent types ... therefore everyone has parts of all 9 E-types ...

How convenient. :dry: :laughing:

*mind fuck due to inferior Ti initiated*

:tongue:
 

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@PlushWitch .. I completely revamped my last post ;) You might wanna re-consider your thank :p
lol... nah, I'll stay with my decision. :wink:

It was more of an empathy/sympathy kinda Thank anyway. O:)
 
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Oh so I'm a charity case now :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

:laughing: :tongue:
lmao

>:D

If you want to see it that way... O:) :wink:
Nah...no such implications intended. :wink:
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Here's more. I found these posts I made in September 2011 [when I was typed as a 6] ... I really managed to pick up some stereotypical Enneagram Type 3 statements even tough I was talking about iNtuition at that point. I'm highlighting what I noticed as Type 3 statements ... Other observations are welcome :)

Aah ... well, that makes a lot more sense than I thought descriptions would - because usually Ni gets spoken about in such mysterious poetic allegory that it baffles my mind. You do sound a lot like my INFJ mom speaking about her intuitions [she's an INFJ as well and just as vocal about her opinions as you are] so I can totally relate.

The problem with me is that I know I'm *usually* right ... not always right. That would be arrogant on my part. The thing is that in my case [being Fe dominant], I'm much less likely to follow what my intuition tells me. I end up reverting to my Fe in almost all my interactions and that puts me in a situation where I feel trapped.


However, at the same time, I do have rare moments clouded by emotion where my Ni forces me to jump to wrong conclusions [maybe once every 100 times or so]. Thankfully those are rare. And almost non-existent when it comes to judging people's emotional states


Where things go wrong is judging intention of someone else's intentions towards me. That's where my intuition sometimes fails me. What I'm trying to get at is manipulation. With enough convincing, my intuition just stops working for some people. Almost like the lightbulb goes off. Allows for being abused [as it happened in my marriage] both verbally as well as financially. I wonder if that's true for INFJ's as well?


I was actually fearing making this post because I might get responses that I couldn't relate to. But I do relate.
Well, that is absolutely true of me. I had my moments of clarity after the divorce, and also during the times she would go to her parent's house for extended periods. So in the end, it was in those moments that I started to really believe the premonitions I was having about her emotionally cheating on me, and being brainwashed by her family.


It's really hard to do however. You see .. despite the intuition screaming that there's something wrong going on, I just want to point out that it's not even love that clouds judgement. It's something stronger than that. It's commitment to the goals that surround the individuals being manipulative. Let me explain.


If I know that I have a superior goal in mind that includes all the things that require me to fulfill my obligations to someone [Fe dominant], then I use my intuition in the favour of the other person ... trying, hoping, waiting for them to see reason and give me what I need - rather than actively asking for it. I assume that it's different for INFJ's where they may be more likely to actively accomplish what they need to make themselves happy, being introverted. I've seen many, many introverts find stronger coping mechanisms because their external needs are fewer than ours.


It's a hard business giving space from someone else in order to attain time to think, because even in that, the thoughts turn to how to mould ourselves to please the other person - not how to figure out ways to get out of a potentially negative situation. So even when there's space and isolation, it's usually spent thinking about how to change ourselves, and not to get to the truth of the other person's intentions.
---

- When I'm introverted and not thinking about people, I get very focused input on a particular idea and I can trace it both backwards and forwards. However, the over-arching feeling is always "I just know - but I can't explain it". I just know what it would take to be successful at something, or fail at it. I just know what path is a good path and what path is a bad path because I can map out all the possible directions each of my choices will take and what kinds of choices I'll be presented with.

- It's the same when I think of other people
- It's the same when I think of society by and large.


- Therefore, I'm always intuitive regardless of the "scale" of my thought. It can range from being able to predict how my niece's life might develop if her circumstances aren't changed --- to how order through chaos may be achieved and what it would take to achieve it -- and even then realize that order through chaos is not a completed end - being able to see beyond that.


- I'm much more focused on the ends rather than the means - therefore I make choices and adapt accordingly. Whatever happens in between to throw me off my chosen path is usually discarded till I'm met with complete failure and *then* I question the means. For me, the possibilities that exist within my drive to reach my end are discarded as distractions. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not easily distracted, nor do I run after every little opportunity for small bits of happiness -- but rather continue to strive for long-term.
 

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@Jawz, SoM was absolutely correct, 3w2 and SO/SX. I didn't get time to read everything up to this point aside from your first two posts but most of your Enneagram insight shown through in your Journal #2, #1 was sort of a reflection on events and not your values and insecurities. Hmm... you're so different from myself I have trouble giving advice to you, but feel good about who you are, how you spend your time to gain in your own way, and what you can do as opposed to not. We're all great in our own way and have something to contribute in our own way to the world.
 

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SOM ... thanks :) ... If I'm a 3, then I'm most likely balanced. What confuses me the most however is suicide ideation - minus the attempts.

1. Everyone will be sorry that I'm gone
2. I just don't want to live because I can't do what I want in life.
3. I'd rather die than fail in life and live with regrets
4. I'm worthless and taken for granted and I hate people because they don't care about me. So I'd rather die than live with this kind of emotional dependency
5. I'm already a failure and I'll fail over and over again. I can't hide that fact forever.
6. Suicide is the ultimate escape from all of life's difficulties.
7. I want to commit suicide but now I can't because my brother attempted it and if I do the same, then I would be just like him. Therefore I will only do it when I'm ready and will make sure that it'll work!
8. I enjoy playing scenarios in my head revolving around my death and how others will take it and react to it. How my suicide will impact them. I see people mourning my loss ... or being happy for me ..
9. I'm just plain tired of trying too hard to be what others want me to be and I'm no longer who I want to be ... death is the only option.
Yeah, seconding @zallla: "I wonder why no one else has replied to this". Anyway, my point is, I can relate to... well, a lot of that. I don't exactly know what to tell you, except that anxiety and fear are extremely addictive, and so is avoidance/procrastination. They're always with you, and it's hard to just flip a switch and not feel them. I know I feel like a mouse on a wheel, sometimes, scurrying round running away from the fear of failure and trying to avoid whatever I have to get done because it's scaring me. And then afterwards the fear and guilt are still there, only worse because I've put things off for so long.

Have you tried getting something like a LiveJournal or Dreamwidth account, so you can at least have friends to vent to or (more important) communities? I don't know, they're just good to collaborate if you're into things like music or art. They're also excellent if you're in fandom, although I wouldn't suggest that route if you're prone to procrastination, because it's a huge time-sucker. And, of course, for keeping a journal generally.
I'm not suggesting this is a magic solution (because it isn't, believe me), but sometimes just working on a new project can distract you and give you something to work towards. Or communities, if you can ferret out the good ones, are just brilliant.
Anyway, just my two cents.

Also, another poem because I just... spam people with them, idek.

The Mayo Tao - Derek Mahon

I have abandoned the dream kitchens for a low fire
and a prescriptive literature of the spirit;
a storm snores on the desolate sea.
The nearest shop is four miles away --
when I walk there through the shambles
of the morning for tea and firelighters
the mountain paces me in a snow-lit silence.
My days are spent in conversation
with deer and blackbirds;
at night fox and badger gather at my door.
I have stood for hours
watching a salmon doze in the tea-gold dark,
for months listening to the sob story
of a stone in the road, the best,
most monotonous sob story I have ever heard.

I am an expert on frost crystals
and the silence of crickets, a confidant
of the stinking shore, the stars in the mud --
there is an immanence in these things
which drives me, despite my scepticism,
almost to the point of speech,
like sunlight cleaving the lake mist at morning
or when tepid water
runs cold at last from the tap.

I have been working for years
on a four-line poem
about the life of a leaf;
I think it might come out right this winter.
 

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I don't see 3 either. I saw 6, 5, 4 and 9. But I still can't be sure at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
@starri, You've mentioned all the four types I seriously considered as core and fixes for myself - and interestingly, these 4 types were the ones I considered seriously based on my journals ^_^ This was great actually, because I'm assuming you don't know much about my posting/enneagram history very much, so on the surface it's very true that my journals contain a heavy dose of each of those 4 types --- especially 4 and 6.

I have seriously considered why everything for me revolves around being seen/typed as a 6 and it's been one of the biggest temptations for me to do so.

Chaos, love, self-image and self-loathing are four themes that are ever present in my existence - but the pattern has always been that I've always found my self-worth through my doings, being busy ... living up to a high ideal of being the best, having the best, owning the best .. speaking about the best [even if I couldn't financially afford the best]. My brother in law made a snide comment yesterday about my demeanour and he went "You know .. why is it that whatever you own is the best?" I suppose it's because when I start "selling" something that I do or own, I end up doing it in such a way that it comes across as arrogance.

This is the most common theme, one of the biggest weaknesses, has been falling back into a cycle of "arrogant when I'm competent and successful", "fearful and incapable of moving when close to failure". I see failure as a complete humiliation, gutting of my efforts, a direct reflection of who I am as a person. I'm nothing if not capable of achieving something in my life. And therefore I try to avoid it ---- but one of the ways I avoid failure is to dive deeply into my emotions and life circumstances trying to make sense of why I arrived at that point of failure - so much so that I become numb, inefficient and unproductive. See, everytime I found myself reaching, or closing in on a goal, I used to get anxious of the success. Inside my heart would be leaping at the anticipation of being in the spotlight for having achieved my goal - and yet pretty much frozen because of a fear of failure at that point.

There were even times when I started wondering whether or not the thing that I'm about to achieve is worth it or not.

It's been a cycle of striving to achieve> achieving> getting close to failure> self-reflection trying to figure out who I really am> making a bad choice> self-sabotage ---- rinse and repeat.

Not sure if that's what makes me a 3 core with the stereotypical qualities of actual success ... or a 3 which a very strong cautious side and desire to stay true to who I am instead of muscling through and really fracturing myself completely. Though I have made the mistake of creating personas in order to achieve my goals - but there's constant chatter in the back of my mind telling me to stay true as well.
 

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@starri, You've mentioned all the four types I seriously considered as core and fixes for myself - and interestingly, these 4 types were the ones I considered seriously based on my journals ^_^ This was great actually, because I'm assuming you don't know much about my posting/enneagram history very much, so on the surface it's very true that my journals contain a heavy dose of each of those 4 types --- especially 4 and 6.

I have seriously considered why everything for me revolves around being seen/typed as a 6 and it's been one of the biggest temptations for me to do so.

Chaos, love, self-image and self-loathing are four themes that are ever present in my existence - but the pattern has always been that I've always found my self-worth through my doings, being busy ... living up to a high ideal of being the best, having the best, owning the best .. speaking about the best [even if I couldn't financially afford the best]. My brother in law made a snide comment yesterday about my demeanour and he went "You know .. why is it that whatever you own is the best?" I suppose it's because when I start "selling" something that I do or own, I end up doing it in such a way that it comes across as arrogance.

This is the most common theme, one of the biggest weaknesses, has been falling back into a cycle of "arrogant when I'm competent and successful", "fearful and incapable of moving when close to failure". I see failure as a complete humiliation, gutting of my efforts, a direct reflection of who I am as a person. I'm nothing if not capable of achieving something in my life. And therefore I try to avoid it ---- but one of the ways I avoid failure is to dive deeply into my emotions and life circumstances trying to make sense of why I arrived at that point of failure - so much so that I become numb, inefficient and unproductive. See, everytime I found myself reaching, or closing in on a goal, I used to get anxious of the success. Inside my heart would be leaping at the anticipation of being in the spotlight for having achieved my goal - and yet pretty much frozen because of a fear of failure at that point.

There were even times when I started wondering whether or not the thing that I'm about to achieve is worth it or not.

It's been a cycle of striving to achieve> achieving> getting close to failure> self-reflection trying to figure out who I really am> making a bad choice> self-sabotage ---- rinse and repeat.

Not sure if that's what makes me a 3 core with the stereotypical qualities of actual success ... or a 3 which a very strong cautious side and desire to stay true to who I am instead of muscling through and really fracturing myself completely. Though I have made the mistake of creating personas in order to achieve my goals - but there's constant chatter in the back of my mind telling me to stay true as well.
Very interesting. Yes, true I am unfamiliar with your other forum postings.

It's nice how you identified other types in yourself as if being a 3 were a veil that had types hiding underneath. Like *I want to know who I was before I turned into this!*

While I am pretty sure my husband is a 3, it's becoming apparent to me (thanks to @Wake & @mpobrien amongst others) that 3's need even deeper digging from me to even get close to claiming any knowledge about them :D
 

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It's been a cycle of striving to achieve> achieving> getting close to failure> self-reflection trying to figure out who I really am> making a bad choice> self-sabotage ---- rinse and repeat.

Not sure if that's what makes me a 3 core with the stereotypical qualities of actual success ... or a 3 which a very strong cautious side and desire to stay true to who I am instead of muscling through and really fracturing myself completely. Though I have made the mistake of creating personas in order to achieve my goals - but there's constant chatter in the back of my mind telling me to stay true as well.
How does fear of failure play into value of authenticity? Maybe I missed something but you changed your topic there quickly.

3s are said to shut out their emotions to act for maximum competency, sort of a "keep your eye on the prize" feel to it. Why does this break? You should embrace your Etype's desires and become comfortable with your own type's ways before trying to transcend them to anything better. Grow of average health before you become more than that.
 

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How does fear of failure play into value of authenticity? Maybe I missed something but you changed your topic there quickly.
Oh. It's just that a 4 of my 5 jobs were the "out of necessity" kind. Meaning that I tried to make myself successful in careers that were bad for my health [I have a disability] core values and ethical standards. I was able to over-look my health and even my standards for a short while in order to become successful at my jobs ---- but just as I was about to make personal break-throughs, I would stop and ask myself "Is this really the kind of organization you want to be a part of? And look at the condition of your knee -- you can't do this forever!"

The first job I quit was at a term-paper mill. I took the job knowing exactly what I was getting into, and thought at first that I would be able to over-look it because it was great money. But nope. I quit. Second was in a life insurance company. I put in a year there before I quit. Last was in a Business Development position --- and even though I was brilliant at it, one of the reasons why I quit was because I knew we were selling an over-priced product that people didn't really need.

The thing is that I could continue in those jobs and succeed, but my moral ethos [combined with a disability] constantly nagged at the back of my mind. The fear of failure came from the disability [what if I get injured again?] which made me much more cautious in my career than I really wanted to be --- and cemented a fear of failure in my head --- so in order to avoid failure because of the disability, I would find all sorts of excuses to jump ship before my job performance started suffering. "Quit while I'm ahead" sort of idea became the way I lived my life --- all my life.

Of course, I haven't even mentioned living up to my parent's, wife's and societal expectations of all things that make men successful and wanting to live up to those ideals --- but not being able to live up to them for various reasons.

This is why I decided against the 9w8 fix for myself as well - because I do have a very strong desire to stay rooted to a company that I don't really want to work for. It usually goes like this "Oh, I can totally succeed at this because I can grow, and I will stay loyal and committed to both my goals and the company ... as long as I can work peacefully without having to over-look my personal values". However, it should've been "Is this career really good for me because I do have a disability to contend with?" --- The question would come at a much later time when I would over-look my health and over-work my body to the point of needing surgeries [I've had 3 since I started working in 2005 -- and now close to my 4th].

Lastly, the one thing that I know will always be my biggest regret which plays into everything that I do --- is the fact that as a youngster I gave up music when that was my one true passion. I gave it up because my parents convinced me that it wouldn't be a good enough career for me financially - and also because they both wanted me to be a CEO when I had every capability of being one. Actually, mom wanted me to be a Doctor, dad wanted me to be an Engineer --- and I ended up doing an MBA --- which still hasn't satisfied either of them :/

I tried to replace the sheer joy that I experience when I play music with other careers ---- but I never could - therefore no matter what career I get into, I know that even though I can reach the top if I could stick to it long enough -- I would never love it the way I love composing music.
 
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