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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
She's enneatype 3, but I'd like to know her MBTI too.

Well I think she is possibly an extrovert, but introvert does not sound impossible neither.

-She uses zero Fi, so she's not XXFP, I'm ENFP with strong Fi and I hate that she has no self values, etc...

-Her bedroom is messy and she is always late, so maybe P, but sometimes she seems very dogmatic, stubborn, proud and gives rough replies. When she argues she may sound despective and ironic, like "shut up, I'm better than you :wink:" and this gets me really nervous; isn't that very J-ish?

-Sometimes she's very fake(her behaviour depends on the people and on the moment) and she copies what other people do (for example, I say something funny and then she tweets it as if the quote was hers). This is very 3-ish, I think. But I think that when she's with very close people, just like me, she is "herself".

-She likes getting the best marks on her exams and she says she does not like people to love her for that but it's so obvious that she does like it it hurts.

-She likes people to think she's very intelligent, and pretty, and "the best".

-She doesn't like when I'm completely honest, for example, the other day she told me something and she was not right (it was about my career, so I knew far more about it than she did) so I corrected her, and she got really mad and told me "If I'm wrong, don't tell me because it makes me feel bad. I don't do that (but believe me, she does that A LOT). And I don't think you're right either, you're not an expert." Then I told her "hmm but I'm studying this, so I know about it OK?" and she replied "I don't care"

-She likes talking about a lot of different topics with me and she doesn't think I'm crazy, I mean, we can talk about whatever we want, but sometimes she would give the rough replies I said before and tell me "I don't care about that (MBTI for example) I won't talk about it"

-She did not understood how MBTI worked and I really tried to explain it to her (When I say how MBTI works I mean: J means Fe or Te and P means Ne or Se, so J is Si or Ni and P is Fi or Ti) so I guess she does not use logic that much? When we're understanding this kind of things do we use Te or Ti? Or maybe this has nothing to do with the functions?

-Sometimes we get really on well but other times I get a bad vibe from her, but I still love her xD I don't know why but I can't think too many good things about her...but she has a lot ! I think I feel like this because of the fake, because when I get a "fake vibe" from someone I just get blind and can't see all the good things they have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
What about ESTJ??
 

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Hm, well from some of it I'd think Te&Fi type. I'd say STJ wouldn't be too off the mark.

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=LSE

^what can I say I like my socionics especially when it comes to probing my friends. Friends hate that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hm, well from some of it I'd think Te&Fi type. I'd say STJ wouldn't be too off the mark.

Logical Sensing Extratim - Wikisocion

^what can I say I like my socionics especially when it comes to probing my friends. Friends hate that.
As I said, I think Fi is the function that she uses less...I am a strong Fi user and would never do some of the things that she does, she has openly admited that she has no values haha. Buy anyway, could you explain why Fi? How does inferior Fi manifests?
Isn't the faking thing an inferior Fe thing? Like Fe in its worst.

Thanks! I will take a look to that link.
 

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Both high Fe and high Fi are well-capable of manipulation. I'm not sure what you mean by "faking" in general. I've ENTJ cousin he basically just states things. This is how it comes off. I'd rule out ExTJ but again I don't know what you mean by faking. Maybe something like this? I dislike my friend's boyfriend but still try being friendly since a). I don't want to alienate my friend b). he is not my boyfriend and unless he hurts my friend it's not my place to judge his boyfriend-material-ness c). objectively he is an OK person just rubs me the wrong way for an unknown reason. Do you mean this kind of faking? What is her agenda behind the "faking"? Why she does it, what she hopes to accomplish with it?

Inferior Fe is this
 
The individual often becomes engrossed in serious work, which leads him to neglect his complementary need for fun and emotional release. He also feels vulnerable expressing himself spontaneously in public, which allows bad emotions and stress to build up, leading to depression or sudden hostility. He enjoys being around people who make him feel comfortable expressing himself, and who can make every day new and exciting.

Although he may present a hard exterior in the company of strangers, he is likely to not be serious at all with people who know him better. His behavior changes radically - a calm and serious structured person will suddenly become jovial and warm.


"If I'm wrong, don't tell me because it makes me feel bad. I don't do that" ISTJ I know reacts this way to criticism while dissing his own to the left and right. In general high Fe (at least healthy one) tends to take critique as a guide to change and improve self.

Could be SFP too? I know ESFP who is extremely egocentric and takes criticism very aggressively. She is a very unhealthy person though.

Sounds like a definite ESFJ
Does not sound like ESFJ to me at all.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
@Greyhart
Maybe something like this? I dislike my friend's boyfriend but still try being friendly since a). I don't want to alienate my friend b). he is not my boyfriend and unless he hurts my friend it's not my place to judge his boyfriend-material-ness c). objectively he is an OK person just rubs me the wrong way for an unknown reason. Do you mean this kind of faking? What is her agenda behind the "faking"? Why she does it, what she hopes to accomplish with it?
She always dislikes my boyfriends because stupid reasons: "he's ugly" "he's stupid" etc etc etc. But then she tries to be kind of "sweet" but I'd say none of those are the reasons behind her behaviour. I'd say she does this to look...sexy and sensual to my boyfriend...but of course she has never tried anything strange with my boyfriends, it's just like a phychologycal need of her I think.

And when I say faking I mean: do you remember when you were a teen and you met your friend or boyfriend's mother and your voice changed? you sounded sweeter? and then your friend told you "you sounded like a good girl/boy haha" well, she does this all the time! Like when I hear her talking to other people her voice and expressions change, she sounds...faker, she's not being herself

Also she usually copies some of the things I do or say, for example, I like X music group and then she starts tweeting or posting on facebook lyrics of their songs.

She also likes to be over the other people, on tweeter she always has names like "jesus christ" or "queen" you know? She needs to make the others know that she thinks she is the best, that's why she comes out with ironic and hurting replies sometimes, mostly when we're with other people.

I think Te would be right for her, because she's very bossy in an acid way...that's the word "acid", cutting. For example, when she says something you CANT tell her the opposite, when she told me his brother was enneatype 2 I argued that he was so 6w7 it hurted and she was like "no, he's a 2". She also trusts tests a lot, she got ENTP the last time but noooo way man.

Btw, how does inferior Fi manifests? Because EXTJ would have inferior Fi. ENTJ may be possible, could this be Ni?: we always talk about the meaning behind things, like why did X person did Y thing, or what colour our souls are and why (ex: your soul is green because you're shinny and happy and your eyes are amazing) she likes Enneagram too but hates MBTI and I don't know why, maybe because she does not understand how it works.


Could be SFP too? I know ESFP who is extremely egocentric and takes criticism very aggressively. She is a very unhealthy person though.
But that would mean she's Se Fi and seriously I can't see even a little Fi on her, why do you think that? I know ESFP can get offended easily but I think that not in the same way she does...well, ESFP's would be offended because they are quite sensitive and have emotional outbrusts, but she gets offended when you hurt her ego and pride, do you get my point?
 

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@FlightlessBird...

Going to take a stab at this.

She uses zero Fi, so she's not XXFP, I'm ENFP with strong Fi and I hate that she has no self values, etc...
Could either be a blatant lack of Fi in the functional stack, but more likely inferior Fi. Te doms have little to no "personal values", because their Fi is so horridly horrid. They often do not know what they want. Or, this could be indicative of strong Fe, but I'd lean with the former.

Her bedroom is messy and she is always late, so maybe P, but sometimes she seems very dogmatic, stubborn, proud and gives rough replies. When she argues she may sound despective and ironic, like "shut up, I'm better than you " and this gets me really nervous; isn't that very J-ish?
Nah, assertiveness isn't just a J thing. It's more an extroverted thing. ExxP's are plenty assertive at times (especially ESTPs.)

Sometimes she's very fake(her behaviour depends on the people and on the moment) and she copies what other people do (for example, I say something funny and then she tweets it as if the quote was hers). This is very 3-ish, I think. But I think that when she's with very close people, just like me, she is "herself".
Well, I would say Fe for this...however it's also type 3 behavior. I would know, I am a type 3 myself. This could also be calculated Te or manipulative Fi, so this information doesn't help much.

She likes getting the best marks on her exams and she says she does not like people to love her for that but it's so obvious that she does like it it hurts. She likes people to think she's very intelligent, and pretty, and "the best".
Meh. Just normal type 3 behavior. Could indicate Te is somewhere in her functional stack higher than inferior, although it could be Fe as well...or just her enneagram.

She likes talking about a lot of different topics with me and she doesn't think I'm crazy, I mean, we can talk about whatever we want, but sometimes she would give the rough replies I said before and tell me "I don't care about that (MBTI for example) I won't talk about it"
Ah!!!!! Useful information! This is possibly indicative of Ne somewhere in her stack higher than inferior, especially since you're an Ne dom so you would naturally be talking of things in an Ne manner. Either that, or maybe someone with high Se. But more likely the Ne.

She did not understood how MBTI worked and I really tried to explain it to her (When I say how MBTI works I mean: J means Fe or Te and P means Ne or Se, so J is Si or Ni and P is Fi or Ti) so I guess she does not use logic that much? When we're understanding this kind of things do we use Te or Ti? Or maybe this has nothing to do with the functions?
This indicates that she has low or nonexistent Ti.


I'm going to take a stab at this and say ESTJ. I could see ESFJ as well- possibly ESFP, if she's wiling to put up with your ramblings.

Also, probably an ESxx type.
 
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Inf Fi socionics description. Generally speaking in ExTJs you won't see feelings unless you are really close to them.

 
The individual longs for close personal relationships where personal and private experiences can be shared easily in an atmosphere of mutual trust, sustained by shared sentiments and ethical beliefs that make external expression of emotions unnecessary. The individual is inclined to take first steps, but he is not confident of his ability to correctly evaluate the existence or status of such a relationship and therefore is attracted to persons who value clear and unambiguous personal relationships with others and who follow a clear set of ethical principles, which gives them credibility and makes them deserving of trust in the individual's eyes.

The individual tends not to consider whether people are friends or enemies or whether they feel good will or ill will towards them. Instead, he or she usually acts right from the start as if the other person were a friend or an enemy based on their prior knowledge of what the person does. This makes it possible to mistake a friend for an enemy and vice versa. Only gradually does the individual come to recognize what feelings others have for him, and there is always an element of doubt unless others express those feelings verbally and unambiguously and act in a way that clearly matches their stated feelings, over a sufficient period of time. The individual is easily made insecure about the status of personal relationships and needs frequent reassurance that the other person's feelings have not changed.

The individual is sheepish about expressing his personal feelings about people ("I find you really interesting" or "I like you a lot"), but responds very well to these statements, as if they were unexpected treats. Instead, the person tends to focus on whether others' behavior makes sense or not.


And when I say faking I mean: do you remember when you were a teen and you met your friend or boyfriend's mother and your voice changed? you sounded sweeter? and then your friend told you "you sounded like a good girl/boy haha" well, she does this all the time! Like when I hear her talking to other people her voices and expressions change, she sounds...faker, she's not being herself
What do you mean "when I was a teen"? xD I pitch my voice higher and steadier when being polite to a strangers, over the phone or indeed friend's family. Is this Fe thing? My ESFJ mother does that too, I might be mimicking her at this point. But then my INFP friend starts to mumble in no-inflection voice when she talks to strangers.

Fi in tertiary is described as this.
 
He is frequently conveying to others his attitude towards them. Uses his own attitude towards someone to manipulate them. Aims to give his evaluation to everything that surrounds him, judges what is 'good' and what is 'bad'. Sometimes he can change his sympathies and antipathies several times a day, very amorous and inconstant in this respect. Looks for a place where others would be interested in his views on any issue. Thus he may find his vocation as artistic director, since in this sphere his judgement is often accepted and valued. As a manager or leader his approach remains the same, however, acceptance of his judgement here will be lower. He himself refers to his evaluations as "work in progress", something mundane, commonplace to him: first he praises someone, then scolds them, then praises them again. Not being in a position to do this, it looks inadequate, so often this serves as incentive for him to achieve such a position, and thus quietly "sell" his products for which there is small demand in society. Usually none at all, because those who are critical of everyone often no one likes. He is frequently perceived as someone who has arrived with "his own charter in a foreign land". He immediately begins to look and evaluate everything: "this is good, but that is poor" "I like this, but not that". He is interested in conflict situations, and can even provoke them since then he will have a job: to assess. These people often win the sympathies of others by participating in their problems: they are aware and interested in them, they can adjust to another person to better get in touch. Therefore, they often make for good politicians. Their advantage is the ability to play on requests of the voters, to know what they want. Their relations are rarely reliable - "today I like you, tomorrow you're not in favor, and day after I like you again". Even their hate can easily one day turn into love. For them feelings is alike an interesting game. They know price to everything, so can make for good evaluators and tasters. Seldom they leave a member of opposite sex without their assessment. Their assessments can sometimes sound like moralizing, but there is no consistency to their judgements. Sometimes the situation requires that they adapt their valuation to "opinions of others." In such cases they may put it into more acceptable formulation, for example "it is said that ...". If you try to specify who is saying that, it turns out that he has merely used the phrase about public opinion to cunningly hide his own opinion.


And for Fe dominant
 
The person lives through manifested relationships between people, their emotions and feelings, can make a favorable impression, create a positive atmosphere. Conservative in his estimates of how people relate to one another as well as to himself, as long as their attitude does not change - this may cause irritation for him. Categorically rejects those who treat others badly or act from base motives - for him such people are like a red rag to a bull. Attached to those in whose sympathies he is confident. Knows how to make people feel valued. Relations are perceived as something permanent and if a person has changed, he won't believe it - it's an area of conservation for him. The "good" should be "good" and "bad" - "bad". If they start behaving in a contrary manner, this irritates him. Therefore, he doesn't want to believe that relations are changing until he can no longer deny the facts, and even then he can try to blame someone else. Never deliberately exacerbates relations. Multiple stable relationships and personal connections form the foundation of his personality. Cannot spend time alone, if there is nobody to relate to, if nobody needs him, then he doesn't exist. The world around him should be good, kind, loving and caring. Sometimes he can search for a place among the religious sects that preach the principle "love each other". If they cannot achiever favorable disposition of others, this provokes anger and inferiority complex. Can be a zealot about such things as behavioral norms, that people in certain situations must demonstrate appropriate sense of the situation deviations from which can be annoying to him. Needs a public. Any situation is primarily a combination of relations.


But that would mean she's Se Fi and seriously I can't see even a little Fi on her, why do you think that? I know ESFP can get offended easily but I think that not in the same way she does...well, ESFP's would be offended because they are quite sensitive and have emotional outbrusts, but she gets offended because if you hurt her ego and pride, do you get my point?
Personal experience, to be honest. I tried to ruffle through my brain for an actual info I've read on it but it seems I didn't stumble across discussions about types handling criticisms. For myself and FJs personal criticism is taken as a). personal failure b). direction in which one should go to avoid similar failures in the future. IxFJs take it worse as in it hurts and deflates them. Also FJs will tear your faces off if you criticize their family. IxTJs seem to brood. IxFPs kind of wilt and go into mental Batcave. ExFPs get defensive and start arguing for own position.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@FlightlessBird...

Going to take a stab at this.



Could either be a blatant lack of Fi in the functional stack, but more likely inferior Fi. Te doms have little to no "personal values", because their Fi is so horridly horrid. They often do not know what they want. Or, this could be indicative of strong Fe, but I'd lean with the former.



Nah, assertiveness isn't just a J thing. It's more an extroverted thing. ExxP's are plenty assertive at times (especially ESTPs.)



Well, I would say Fe for this...however it's also type 3 behavior. I would know, I am a type 3 myself. This could also be calculated Te or manipulative Fi, so this information doesn't help much.



Meh. Just normal type 3 behavior. Could indicate Te is somewhere in her functional stack higher than inferior, although it could be Fe as well...or just her enneagram.



Ah!!!!! Useful information! This is possibly indicative of Ne somewhere in her stack higher than inferior, especially since you're an Ne dom so you would naturally be talking of things in an Ne manner. Either that, or maybe someone with high Se. But more likely the Ne.



This indicates that she has low or nonexistent Ti.


I'm going to take a stab at this and say ESTJ. I could see ESFJ as well- possibly ESFP, if she's wiling to put up with your ramblings.

Also, probably an ESxx type.
I think she may be a Te dom with some Fe traits because she's a 3, I mean, sometimes she wants people to like her, etc etc, but it's just because she's very prideful and not because she really needs that harmony. What do you think? I'd be happy if you asked me some questions so I could give you some useful information!

Yes, maybe Ne is somewhere inside her, but as I told to the guy above:

Could this be Ni?: we always talk about the meaning behind things, like why did X person did Y thing, or what colour our souls are and why (ex: your soul is green because you're shinny and happy and your eyes are amazing) she likes Enneagram too but hates MBTI and I don't know why, maybe because she does not understand how it works.
We can talk about different topics but she does not see things the way I do, but still do it pretty similar so maybe Ni or is that Ne?

She did the test and got ENTP but no way. What are your thoughts on ENTJ? And why did you think Si over Ni?

Thanks for helping me!! :kitteh:
 
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I think she may be a Te dom with some Fe traits because she's a 3, I mean, sometimes she wants people to like her, etc etc, but it's just because she's very prideful and not because she really needs that harmony. What do you think? I'd be happy if you asked me some questions so I could give you some useful information!

Yes, maybe Ne is somewhere inside her, but as I told to the guy above:



We can talk about different topics but she does not see things the way I do, but still do it pretty similar so maybe Ni or is that Ne?

She did the test and got ENTP but no way. What are your thoughts on ENTJ? And why did you think Si over Ni?

Thanks for helping me!! :kitteh:
Si over Ni because she obviously has some Ne. What you were describing as Ni was actually Ne. :kitteh:
 
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IDK about Si Ne other I think you'll notice "not-Ne" better (at least I seem to notice not-Ne fast) but the reason I thought not-high-Fe is because of her reaction to criticism mainly. I think that the best way to determinate her type would be for you to learn functions better ;) I've spent months mistyping my ENTJ cousin as ISTP because I couldn't reconcile his disposition towards me with Te dom stereotypes even despite the fact that I constantly described his way of communication as "issuing statements".
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
IDK about Si Ne other I think you'll notice "not-Ne" better (at least I seem to notice not-Ne fast) but the reason I thought not-high-Fe is because of her reaction to criticism mainly. I think that the best way to determinate her type would be for you to learn functions better ;) I've spent months mistyping my ENTJ cousin as ISTP because I couldn't reconcile his disposition towards me with Te dom stereotypes even despite the fact that I constantly described his way of communication as "issuing statements".
I'm trying to learn more about them, and at least theorically I understand them far more better than I did two-three months ago, but I don't know how to use this information in real life. I mean, I don't know which traits are too Fe or too Te...etc. Enneagram was easier to me, but determining someone enneatype is harder than MBTI since enneagram is deeper :rolleyes:

What do you mean? Fe-doms does not react badly to criticism?

And when I said "when you were a teen" I meant that everybody talk in a sweeter way when meeting their friend's parents. English is not my native language so maybe that's why I couldn't express myself properly...T_T haha. I'll try again: I ment that she does this all the time, the "talking sweeter" thing because she wants people to like her
 

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ExFJs
http://personalitycafe.com/enfj-forum-givers/15740-enfjs-how-do-you-deal-criticism.html
http://personalitycafe.com/esfj-articles/76787-recognizing-inferior-function-esfjs.html ctrl+f criticism

ExFPs
http://personalitycafe.com/esfp-forum-performers/165559-advice-dealing-criticism.html
http://personalitycafe.com/esfp-forum-performers/117788-how-do-you-take-criticisms.html
http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-for...s-sensitivity-criticism-critical-acclaim.html

ETPs lol
http://personalitycafe.com/entp-forum-visionaries/16096-sensitive-criticism.html
http://personalitycafe.com/estp-forum-doers/62373-do-you-take-things-personally.html
http://personalitycafe.com/entp-for...ps-self-criticism-state-musician-edition.html

ExTJs
http://personalitycafe.com/entj-forum-executives/72351-criticism-compliments.html
http://personalitycafe.com/intp-for...ructive-unnecessary-criticisms-intp-entj.html
http://personalitycafe.com/estj-articles/95934-form-inferior-function-fi.html Overusage "the grip" of inferior Fi
"Effective dominant Introverted Feeling types use a finely developed awareness of their inner values as a reliable guide for judging themselves and others. In the grip of inferior Introverted Feeling, Extraverted Thinking types become hypersensitive to their own and others emotions, often misinterpreting comments from others as personal criticism. In their dominant approach, they typically interpret objectively offered criticism by respected colleagues as an appropriate means to promote excellence. In the grip of their inferior Introverted Feeling, they may easily take offense and overreact to such criticism."

Generic
http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/211106-sensitivity-criticism-mbti.html

I'm trying to learn more about them, and at least theorically I understand them far more better than I did two-three months ago, but I don't know how to use this information in real life. I mean, I don't know which traits are too Fe or too Te...etc. Enneagram was easier to me, but determining someone enneatype is harder than MBTI since enneagram is deeper
It takes time. As for ennea I enjoy it because it's basically "Look at what kind of shitty human you are. Look again - this healthy being could be you. I'm on a horse." :laughing: I wonder why she likes ennea but doesn't like Jung-y stuff though.

And when I said "when you were a teen" I meant that everybody talk in a sweeter way when meeting their friend's parents. English is not my native language so maybe that's why I couldn't express myself properly...T_T haha. I'll try again: I ment that she does this all the time, the "talking sweeter" thing because she wants people to like her
That does sound like Fe.
 
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