Personality Cafe banner
1 - 3 of 3 Posts

· Registered
INFP 6w5 629 sp/sx
Joined
·
2,891 Posts
Hello @KuroAlice ,

In our last exchange, I didn't answer a question which I think is a mistake of mine, so I think iterating a point more directly might allow you more confidence. I'm sorry it's five months late.

But... is it possible for ESFPs to immerse themselves in fantasy for long time?
Disappointment at the ugliness of the world turns into hatred of reality and longing for utopia.
I had hinted at the answer: "your earliest focus is on real sense-able data." It seems you did explore the ISFP subforum, where you probably gotten to see this in action. So even if the answer isn't apparent, it might be at the back of your mind. ESFPs can indeed immerse themselves in fantasy for a long time. What they prefer to notice in fantasies will likely be different than an INFP, but what you dream and what I dream... how different is it? You might prefer to explore the colors, the feel of the wind, or some other tangible possibility in that dream. Your dream becomes real to you. I might prefer to explore the morality of the characters, the implementation of technological processes, or some other conceptual possibility of that dream. My dream becomes real to me, but are we both not dreaming?

I still see you as an ESFP and describing you as an ESFP seems to be the most meaningful way to type you.

I've learned quite a bit about myself in the last few months since I wrote my first questionnaire. And I feel like I have no type to fit in again. The more I think about it, the more I feel like my true type is ‘nothing’.
Can someone type my MBTI and Enneagram wing?
You have indeed! You've learned quite a lot. Well done!

Now how does it relate to the functions? When I first suggested to you to explore some of the subforums, you weren't very resistant to the idea. Why not? Not only that, you proceeded to participate in a manner that shows your observations, but you ask about the conclusions. In the end, you boiled down what you read, and pieced the concepts together. I think this is a clear display of Se-Ni.

Contrast this to my posts. I observe, yes, but my observations alone rarely motivate me to post about them. I post observations that I know are pertinent to the judgment. For instance, I don't post links unless I have evaluated them myself and I know the information to be helpful. Fi-Te

I'll not be commenting on your entire post because I have a tendency to try to reach an end feeling about it all and that might take me months, and I think you know how most of these relate to which functions. If there's a part you especially wanted me to pass judgment upon, let me know.

5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?

People around me think I like solitude. Not at all. I hate loneliness. I keep my distance from people so as not to hurt anyone. I really want close friends. But others only see me based on autistic stereotypes, not my true self. But it's true that I find it boring to associate with people who aren't interested in me, and I want to avoid it. When I meet someone, I want to get involved with them if they look like me, but if not, I'm not really interested.

8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

I feel like I shouldn't be anywhere, so I withdraw to a place where no one can see me. The imagining that I'm hurting people by my mere presence makes me self-critical. I fantasize about a comfortable environment to escape from that suffering.
The pain of existing increases. I keep my distance from all people in the hope that no one will recognize me.
I avoid all risks of being hurt. I can only console myself with the fantastic feeling of finding someone who is similar to my current state of mind and connecting with that person.

10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?

I'm the silent person in the group because I believe that nothing will change with or without my opinion. I dislike group interaction because the conversation actually goes on without me and I easily feel left out. At such times, loud people always dominate and disregard the opinions of quiet people like me. That was always the case when I was a student. I find this imbalance of power frustrating.
Then the flow of the story is too fast and my thoughts can't catch up! This is the biggest reason why I can't voice my opinion in groups.

I need someone to wait for me. I need an environment where I can be confident that my opinion is needed. So I prefer one-on-one.
word document
Don't be confusing the need for social downtime with I. Don't also be confusing any of the introverted functions with I either. Ni and Si are a natural consequence of Ne and Se, explore enough of ideas or reality and you will organize those ideas and you will organize reality. You will see concepts for what they are, and you will see how life is. Ask though: How am I relating to these concepts? How am I relating to reality?

Take me for example. I explore concepts, but boiling it down for coherence is not my main goal. I will weed out ideas that have no use and to recognize connections, but this is just a product of my intelligence, not my personality.

14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?

To be disillusioned and trapped in suffering. I despair when I need to know that what I have perceived is not normal. For example, when I see the bad side of people who I thought were good until now, or when I have to accept the dark side of people, the world seems like a loveless hell filled with suffering. Even staying in such a place is painful. In other words, always thinking about the bad side means “living is suffering” for me. I want to avoid that suffering. I don't want to live in a world full of unpleasant things.
I often need to get away from people so that I don't feel that pain. Disappointment at the ugliness of the world turns into hatred of reality and longing for utopia. Let me be in ‘my world’ without disturbing. It's a great fear that my presence is perceived when I don't want it, and finding myself living in reality. It exhausts me to hold onto a sense of presence. I have two sides of me, “me in reality” and “me in my world”, and it is painful to switch between them violently.

We, who were originally the same, changed and only I was left in the same state as before. I don't want to lose or change what I have now, but staying the same keeps me away from people. It frightens me to see new sides (talents etc.) in people I already know. Then I desperately try to be like them, and when that doesn't work, I feel overwhelmed by the loneliness of being left behind. And it reproaches me for not being perfect like everyone else.
That I really am the only one. I want to have a different identity than most, but it still makes me feel lonely and tormented when there is no one like me.
Though it sounds strange, I'm quite afraid of something being generated from myself. I want to have my favorites, to express my everything as my favorites, not to have something of my own secondarily. I find comfort in identifying with my favorites. As long as I'm any different from them, I feel isolated all the time.

And in reality, I fear being left out the most! I never want to see the outside time passing by, leaving me behind as if there is an insurmountable wall between me and others.
Whenever I interact with people, I'm always afraid of being rejected or losing existing relationships. If I hurt people, I'll be rejected, so I have to accept them kindly. If I make a mistake I'll be rejected, so I have to be right all the time. Such thoughts haunt me whenever I'm involved with someone, and they show up in my tense demeanor.
(bold mine) I think you should consider 9w1 rather than 9w8. I know that Japan has a high-context culture, but even considering this... you're not um, very openly rebellious? You seem more concerned for seeking rightness rather than making sure it's administered.

"Ones feel they need to rationalize their punitive activities. Eights do not. For unhealthy Eights, administering justice is simply meting out vengeance. "

Since I'm just staring at this post, I think I'll end it here for now. I might have a bit to say about #18, but I'll need to think more on it. Your understanding of scoionics is much past mine and I don't think I wrote very coherently. Eh. I just wanted to say hi. Ello.
 

· Registered
INFP 6w5 629 sp/sx
Joined
·
2,891 Posts
Thank you for all your answers!

I appreciate any help with these! I think I lean towards 1 over 8.

Now for socionics, I'm considering EII, which is Se-polr because of weak Se enough to be overwhelmed when I'm forced. And my strong desire for true relationships fits Leading Fi. I've always valued intimacy and authenticity over superficially good relationships, which is better suited to Fi in socionics than MBTI.
I think my Fi is also strong in MBTI, but I feel that my Si is too strong rather than that.

But even with that in mind, I feel like I spend too much time in my inner world. It's both the outer world and the inner world that get tired if I stay there for a long time, so I'm not sure which one I prefer. However, I've found that what I feel most comfortable with is secondary to what I receive from the outside world. It makes me think of the possibility of being an introvert.
That's mostly what I explained in the docs. I definitely generate something like impression/vibes/atmospheres internally and prefer to focus mine instead of external ones. Sometimes I get so caught up in the initial state of what impresses me that I even lose sight of how it evolves now. Does this mean I'm Si-dom and not Se-dom?
The desire for true relationships is not only for Fi types, but the way they may go about getting them can be more direct. They might present their most "authentic" version of themselves, then hope this other person will accept them. Fe types might go about getting friends with a more "standard" way, as is usual when taking into account most people's feelings. I think as you think in this regard, your Fi is much stronger.

I think it would be better to consider first ISFP instead of ISFJ, because if you're going to fit into ISFJ then your thinking pattern should be similar to other ISFJs.

ISFJs aren't too common on PerC, but the ones in real life have tendencies towards control of what they know (manifests on how they stick to what's familiar and resilience when facing sensory-stressful situations) and a hesitancy towards ideas that are new to them. Try talking about abstract sciences with an ISFJ, usually difficult. You can also think about why artists can often be typed as ISFP.

Yeah, that's definitely what I'm trying to say.
I've gathered a lot of opinions on this in various places. And most people said mine is Si, not Se. According to them, Sensors seem to be sensory focused, whether Se or Si. Se is objective and directly perceives from outside. Si is subjective and immersed in impressions brought about by external stimuli. They said so. I'm more Si based on this.

It sounds reasonable. I can consider myself ESFP based on this.
However, at the same time, there is another point of view based on the information I have gathered so far. I've heard that prioritizing gathering information over judging applies to all of P-dom. And narrowing down information also sounds like a Judging attitude. How are these different?
Sorry, I used a shorthand. Si seems to be looking for information that they will eventually apply their judgment to come to a conclusion. I hear Jung sees it as a subjective introspective view towards sensation. I like to think of it as "organizing facts."

The different typology systems have different ways of defining the functions. I think you should stick to that seems the most accurate and applicable.

Is an S type immersed in impressions using their Se to explore and fill their feeling judgments? (Se to Fi) Or are they just precieving it? (Si)

You can also just observe humans. How many ISFPs are immersed in fantasy? What have they taken notice of? How many ISFJs are immersed in fantasy? Why?

Although, I don't fully consider myself an ISFJ. I think I have more Fi-Te than Fe-Ti. It leaves the possibility that I'm an ESFP. Nevertheless, I think I perceive Si in preference to Se. If there was a type like Si-dom/Fi-aux, it would be me. I'm sure I'm IS(F)/SiFi in Classic Jungian. But this doesn't fit any MBTI types completely, so I still can't decide if I'm ISFJ or ESFP. I'm confused because one way I can see myself as ISFJ and another way I can see myself as ESFP… Both seem to make sense…
Don't worry too much. :) You'll find your type eventually. You might even just keep it at SiFi if that fits you best. Personally, I think your past experiences have led you "introvert", but once you find people who you can open up to, I think you'll "change."

Apologies for the incoherence. I'm just typing from a phone in the Philippines. Didn't get around to responding to the second half of your post, but I did read it and considered it.
 

· Registered
INFP 6w5 629 sp/sx
Joined
·
2,891 Posts
Upon further evaluation, I have lost confidence in the type I gave you. I think all the SF types, except ESFJ have some likelihood to describe you. I could double check by asking you to describe your relationship with reality and the abstract, but I think such an exercise might be painful.

With your current self that is presented on the internet, SiFi is your best descriptor.
 
1 - 3 of 3 Posts
Top