[Aethra]

I'm pasting the questionaire and I'll include my answers so if anyone has any suggestions for my type please let me know. Thanks!

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.

(Once I clicked on the page my eyes instantly went here although it was also one of the first images anyway. So I look at it and it makes me admire the power of nature and how magnificent it is even when 'angry'. I also think of impending events..important things to come, whether good or bad. Important chaotic changes and events that will be like a 'storm' of things happening that will affect the whole world massively.)

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

(If we don't get a ride soon or some help, we'll probably miss the event. Oh well we'll have fun on our own or find something else to do? Maybe a road trip? A drive in cinema night instead? As long as we have snacks and water we'll be fine. We can watch the nightsky instead and discuss interesting things.)


3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

(I don't like the idea and definitely don't wanna go. I'd rather get another way home or if he insists on going I'll probably wait in the car. If he gets drunk we'll sleep in the car until the next morning when he'll be sober enough to drive us home.)


4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
(I get annoyed with them so I prepare my reply and arguments. If it's up to me, I'll crash whatever delusions they have or at the very least I'll make sure their opposite views are not the only ones that will be heard. If they get the right to voice their idiotic view I get the same right and people will choose which view is more sound.)

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
(I'd be furious and want to instantly say and/or do something about it. Depending on the severity of the act, I will not be silent/inactive about it. Any kind of stupidity, evil or injustice must be pushed in the corner and those commiting them must at the very least be put in their place about it. Enough with tolerance.)


6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?
(Important values of mine are my faith, family, morals and my intolerance for people who intentionally choose to not think for themselves and concern themselves with real serious issues but prefer superficial matters or have others think for them while they accept whatever others/society/media tell them to believe. My values are the product of years of introspection, life experiences and research on several things. They do not change. I acquired my core values after a very long and deep process and despite my young age, I've had more than a decade of time to establish them. Some things do not change. Core values are not superficial temporary things, if you manage to acquire your core values they stay forever. They define you. What can happen is probably add more core values as we grow up.)


7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?
(I'm very introverted, appear cold and unapproachable and/or apathetic compared to most people around me, especially women. I do not seek social approval and if I do it';s only from 2-3 people. I'm also not interested in relationships and/or don't feel the intense need to marry and have kids. I prefer a more career and independent focussed life. I'd probably want to change my perfectionism and temper. My perfectionism gives me anxiety and failure phobia and my temper is often draining me.)

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?
(Hunches and gut feelings come from our intuition. I treat them with absolute trust and respect because that's what they deserve. Intuition is the deep lower body of the icebergh. It's the invisible and silent compass of our thoughts and deepest secret knowledge. I've always been led to correct conclusions when trusting my gut and always been led to mistakes when I wouldn't. They can be triggered at any situation.)



9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
(I get energized by all my hobbies. Research, reading, swimming, cycling, speed walking, loved ones, Academics, learning, music, nature, solitude, meaningful convos with close friends or people of shared values and thinking, cafes, libraries, caffeine, sweets, animals.

I get drained by crowds, feasts, loud sounds, lights, any kind of people that are not in my chosen immediate cycle or who I haven't chosen as like-minded people to hang out with, 'family meetings' and other sentimental situations, social gatherings of any kind and other fake [email protected], pleasantries, gossiping and curious people, idios who think they have any kind of say in my life or want to give me their 'opinion' without me asking for it, forced activities, jobs I do only out of need/obligation.)


10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?
(My sarcasm and lack of social kills/care. If people knew how much they annoyed me and what I really thought about most of them I'd be considered the most hated/asocial person they've ever met. And living in a small community means you have no options but to 'fake it' in order to 'make it'.)

 

[Aethra]

I'm no expert at this, so I might be completely wrong, but I get Fe/Ti or Ti/Fe and dominant judging function vibes so either ExxJ or IxxP, I'd put ENFJ out there. You sound f* independent, kind but far far far from being push-over.

Thanks for your reply. I can tell you for sure I am.not an extrovert though. I am a hardcore introvert. That is the easiest thing to know for yourself even without typology. If you see my replies I mention it in the last answers. I dont know what you mean by f independent though.

 

[Aethra]

You are an INFJ, and always have been. Welcome.

A path to growth for you will be to eliminate the thinking that others are 'idiotic' and instead recognize that everyone has value even when they conflict with your forward momentum. The sooner you grasp this, the better. It is only holding you back. Everyone has certain things they are genius at, and idiots at; recognizing each person's genius will change your life as you begin to understand everyone more than you thought possible.

Your values are formed from observing the world, not from an inner feeling. You observed countless people over your life and formed ways you will be, and ways you will not be. This is Fe. Fi users have an internal understanding of how they feel; without thinking about it, they know what is right or wrong based on how it makes them feel.

Your aversion to crowds, loud sounds and other sensory experiences is your inferior Se. This is the best way, in my opinion, to determine your type - your inferior function. Only INTJ share inferior Se, but you have Fe not Fi. And of course, Ti instead of Te through other expressions you pointed out; a simple example is not telling people they're dumb, something an INTJ would do because they don't really care how the other person feels; if they're wrong, they're wrong. But your Fe and Ti make a logical understanding to what it would mean to offend someone and the potential repercussions and you choose not to. Anyway...

You're an INFJ, and always have been.

Thanks for you reply. I did take comapring tests between intfj and intj and I got Intj in all. Same with intp-intj. I do not relate as much to the Infj type as I relate to the intp-intj. The reason why I dont call people dumb is because 1) I do not naturally think people are dumb, I think their way of thinking is and 2) I was raised in a very emotional extrovert based social based environment so I've learned early on to keep my real thoughts to myself if they are socially rude.
I'm beginning to finally see what type I am after a lot of research with non-stereotype based material like that of dr. Drenth. Again thanks for your input. Infjs and intjs do share many similarities.

 

[Aethra]

Independent with your values, as in you form them, stand by them and not let any outside influence easily change them. I guess you just didn't sound social-phobic, just selective, which was why I didn't rule out E. So if I, then I guess IxTP? You are steadfast in your beliefs/conclusions which dominant perceiving types tend* not to be.

I see what you mean now xD I'm still learning about the functions. Been researching a lot. Based on non stereotypical sources, Intjs have a personal moral code, a set of beliefs if you will, that they are very loyal to so I dont think TJs would necessarily not be steady about certain things. I took some tests and I seem to get Intj in them so I read dr. Drenth who apparently is one of the very few typology experts that doesn't use stereotypes and his description of Intjs is very relatable to me. Still researching of course, I need to be 100% sure. Thanks for your help!

 

[Aethra]

Te vs. Fe secondary is difficult to discern when isolated and alone. They're both internal voices and many times we confuse what we think with what we feel. What allowed me to discern where I stand differently from INTJ was when I looked at Fi vs. Ti tertiary functions.

Fi has an innate knowing of their values. An INTJ would say, "I just know that's wrong," when they see something that violated their moral code. An INFJ would say, "I think that's wrong." The INTJ knows (Ni) their feeling (Fi) is correct. The INFJ knows (Ni) their thinking (Ti) is correct. But the decision making for the INFJ is more malleable to outside input. Where an INTJ would say "all bad thing X is wrong" the INFJ would say "even though X is bad, sometimes it's not wrong."

My call for INFJ for you was due to how you described observing and building your internal moral structure over time by putting together, though lots of thinking and processing, a moral framework inside yourself by which to use when interacting with the world. In other words, you took a lot of time and thinking to come to your internal values vs. having an innate understanding of them. In other words, your moral framework is not absolute. It was pieced together by choice, and you can add or remove things to it.

Take your deepest held moral belief, something that you think if someone did, they were the most terrible person. Now... think about the love of your life doing this thing. Does it change how you feel? Would you 'partner in crime' with your love of your life? If not - if you would reject your love for the sake of your values, then you are likely using Fi. If you have some wiggle room there, you are likely using Fe.

I'll try to give you two statements. Which do you identify with?

1. I am efficient, organized, and comprehend all the concepts in front of me; I will use this to win.
2. I am calculated, independent, and understand the base concepts being presented; I will see what happens.

That took a little while to think through on how to present it; the first is more likely Te, and the second is more likely Ti. Te gathers lots of ideas and can handle them all at the same time. Ti takes lots of ideas and breaks it down into a foundational concept.

Lastly, I think INFJ blend into other roles/types by design with Fe. So it's easy to appear as another type, and even convince yourself you are some other type, since all the work required is mental, and INFJ are fully introverted mental thinkers with Ni/Ti. So if you need to appear as an INTJ, you can become that in terms of your outward actions, but it will be a choice, and not who you really are. In other words, if your environment changes how you interact with other people, you're likely using Fe to adapt to the situation - or adapt everyone else to the situation you desire. That's a little of what I'm getting here. You may feel pressured by your extroverted family to become career oriented and become something, and may adapt to what their expectations are, making you seem like a type you are not. Truly, this is one of the most difficult things for an INFJ to come to terms with, that you are willingly malleable into any form. That you're almost never yourself, and you can't help but being what others want or need you to be. So when you realize this, and the illusion of who you are breaks, it's a tough thing to handle, especially because, for the most part, you like not being yourself; you like being what others want, need or expect you to be, because it makes them happy.

That last part is why I think you're in your position. Your extrovert parents/social life may be expecting a certain life for you and you may be internalizing that and becoming that thing versus what you would be otherwise. There's nothing wrong with this, but if you can entertain the thought and imagination of 'what if my personality is directly because of the influence of the people I am closest with, and not really who I really am' then well... that's INFJ Ni/Ti loop stuff... and INTJ kind of know who they are pretty quick and would reject that thought experiment because it doesn't further their interests much.

I see what you mean but I've been looking a lot into the Infj type when I was doing the comparisons and I do not relate to its traits at all. I've read its profile (the non stereotype one) and it's simply not me. Also my extrovert environment sure has made me try to adapt more to the social rules but as a person even after years of being around people, am still not at all in touch with social rules and etiquettes,etc.. I have a very mechanic and limited way of carrying myself around people in social situations. I would definitely not put other people's expectations for my life above my own taste/desires. Trust me. I also do not change opinions or views to please others or 'relate' to others, nor do I put people's feelings over truth. I am the type of person that will speak against political correctness and anything 'sappy' that people use to censor truths and I won't apologize for it nor will I care if people are offended by it. Not saying that I will intentionally hurt people or that I don't care but between telling the truth and censoring the truth for each person's or group's 'feelings' I'd always choose the first option.
As for the values part example you wrote and how I'd act if a beloved person did something that went against my core values..not sure if one individual example can describe or define one's type. Infjs and intjs have a lot of similarities and to put such examples would be a very general speculation at its best. There is nowhere anything that says an Intj would not be forgiving or tolerant of a loved one even if that loved one did something that went against their values. There is something that would make me not wanna see a person ever again in my life..but that is wayy too extreme and none of my loved ones would ever do such a thing or even less so it's hard to even imagine such a scenario..I just can't relate. I think it's dangerous for us common people, non psychologists, to attempt to create 'absolute' conclusions for types using what we ourselves consider as 'defining traits'. The 2 last statements have the same nature that online mbti tests have when asking questions. But online mbti tests are as valid and reliable as a 10 year old teaching typology lol. I relate to both but at the same time there are parts in both I don't relate with.
The more I read the INTJ profile the more I find things I relate to but I'm not absolute yet. I will keep doing my research because even this one might be wrong. I did look up the INFJ even more after your 1st reply because I wanted to make sure once again and it further assured me I did not relate. Again thank for your time!

 

[Aethra]

The "prepare an argument and crush whatever delusions they have" is very much Te-Ni/Ni-Te. I once talked to an ENTJ about a situation where I stayed quiet when I got the expression that some thing was very dear to them and didn't continue the conversation of opposite views. The ENTJ was like "oh, I would've argued to the end" and was like how did I know to stop. Fe doesn't need an argument, it considers some way to treat people just wrong because it is.

The Te-Ni/Ni-Te is functions for the ENTJ or INTJ? I'm no extrovert btw.
What do you mean 'treat people wrong'? As in be rude to you while arguying?

 

[Aethra]

Yeah. More evidence you're INFJ. Eventually it will click. The paradox will make sense eventually. Super caring, but also don't care at all. Fits in socially everywhere, but is unsure why and it's almost like an effort has been expended to do it, though no effort can be observed. Solid, unmovable opinions, except when someone is pleading and crying in front of you, then your opinion can change.

If you never got mad at me saying you're INFJ, then you're probably not INTJ, lol... You took it to heart and went looking for answers.

But truly only you will know the answer once you've done your research (though I suspect your realization will come when you stop researching and allow your Ni to do what it does best).

I would consider your environment as being extremely influential on your current feeling and typing. That is again something that blew my mind, that I wasn't really "me" when I was in all these other environments. I carried all the weight of my social interactions around with me. This... hurts... when you - if you - get this or have it happen to you. Your idea of who you are is shattered, because who you are is what everyone else wanted you to be, in a way that you owned and made who you are. Basically, just consider that maybe your environment is influencing you more than you suspect. Time alone will help you figure this out either way, as Ni does its best work in that time with no outside influence.

I wish I could understand myself the way you understand so much about types. I can 'psychoanalyze' everyone around me except for me. You know the ironic thing is that the very FIRST type test I took was INFJ. I got a flashback recently of just that. The 'INTJ' came later, maybe even the next day or next days when I experimented a lot with mbti tests. But I remember my very first test had gotten me an INFJ result. Then I found it weird and kinda 'flashy' that people seemed to think of INFJs as manipulative or fake or super rare and 'wise'. And I kinda rejected it as a possible type. The reason why I'm so into this is because I was hoping typology would help me with my identity crisis a bit. I can't afford an actual psychologist so info on all this is the only thing I get for now. I'm very confused. There are many things influencing me (mostly negative past things). How did you figure out your type? Do you have any non-stereotypical mbti sources you recommend for more insights on the types and in this case the INFJ, if it turns out that I am that? Again, thank you for your time and effort. It means a lot for me.

 

[Aethra]

Every introvert and extrovert pair uses the same functions, their orders are just slightly different as in this case the order for the INTJ is Ni first then Te and for the ENTJ Te first and Ni second. I put them in the same sentence since despite the order, their thought world is pretty similar. Same as I've met 2 ENFJs and I've found their thought world somewhat similar to mine, to which they agreed.

About the treating people wrong, I was reflecting a conversation with that ENTJ who said if there was a situation where somebody died and she would be wondering if it was at least an efficient way to die to the victims loved ones. I was just that you definitely can't say anything like that in a situation like that. I mean they'd feel horrible and wouldn't want to think about something like that. In general for Fe is easier to think about the feelings of others than for Te, which focuses on efficiency. If you're a person who sits in their room a lot (which I'm not saying is a bad thing as I'm very much like that), it's easy to overthink these things, but when you get some experiences and talk to people it's easier to see where you fall in. I spent one year in a table with an INTJ, INTP and an ENTP and holy shit, I definitely felt like a feeling type with those fuckers.

Lol, if efficiency is a strong 'must' of these types then I can't relate. Not that I don't like efficiency (especially in work) but I definitely don't obsess over it as I myself am very disorganized often and when I get organized I'm more on the 'simple' way of it, not obsessing about that stuff. I also like being lenient with tasks and competence because I'm insecure for my performance on things and I don't like to make others feel insecure for theirs as well. I believe that everyone needs time and different methods to learn new things.

 

[Aethra]

How did I figure out my type? I had typed as INTJ much earlier with my first test, but never thought too much of it. I was in charge of a lot of executive tasks with a company, and so it made sense. The character label of "The Mastermind" also stood out to me. I didn't dig in. Surely I was INTJ. So I lived life and even forgot about MBTI altogether.

It was much later that I was randomly browsing YouTube and came across a video, randomly placed in the sidebar which I usually ignore, of someone showing their vulnerability and expressing how they thing. It mesmerized me - one, because this woman was beautiful, and second, because it was the very first time in all my life that I saw someone actually describing how I think. Up until then, I thought I was truly alone (perhaps the 4w5 in me, which again, I found out later) and that no one thought like me. I've interacted with lots of people, and have intuitively known people, and yet, it seems no one had the ability to intuitively know me back. I never knew why, but I felt so alone in the world in this way, that no one, not a single person I had ever met, introspected me in the way I do others.

And here was someone explaining a pattern of thought that matched how I think. I was blown away. My world was in effect shattered. It's hard to describe this moment; I spent like 2 hours absorbing the limited content, and then... out of nowhere I began to cry. And I mean hard, so hard. I cry now remembering it actually. It was so powerful. Literally a burst of tears and emotion there from me just now. It was so powerful. I then knew; whatever this person's type was, I am also. And this person was an INFJ. I needed no other proof. I even thought my old test was INFJ in how perfectly this person matched my thinking patterns. Wow, I had seen someone who thinks like me! A day or two later as I dug into INFJ content, I found out that no, I had tested INTJ. So I was confused, and a little embarrassed. What was I really?

I was then where you are, digging around, trying to find information on the types and the differences. I thought maybe I really was INTJ, since I had typed that way initially, and I was just confused. But truly, the thinking I saw expressed was like my own. There's so much more to it as well; seeing the person's mannerisms and how they look at another person and study them intently and so much more.

Lucky for me, I have an INTJ friend. I didn't know this until I brought it up, and well, since most of my friends are younger, they were all like "yeah we already know all this stuff" and I was again stunned. I had no reason to look into this before, but I've always honed in on understanding people almost better than they know themselves. I've used this my whole life, but had no label for it. My INTJ friend is truly an INTJ. He is the stereotype, which is very helpful, and was helpful, for me in figuring out I am not like that, even though I seem to possess a lot of those same traits at times.

Like you, I was confused by the standard descriptions and so on. It did not make sense. All the data and so on, it's not clear enough. What I didn't realize immediately was how functions work. I developed my own understanding of the functions as I began rejecting some of the data I saw.

How I knew I was not INTJ was that my friend did express certain values and so on which were rigid, and in addition, his focus towards efficiency and more was hyper-active to a level I could not compete. Or, I could, but I realized in the times we were both giving our all, my output was somewhat different - I was coming up with the good ideas. He was using those good ideas to make efficient calls to get things done. But truly it was the value system and how I care for people in an intimate way, while he's ready to just mentally destroy someone at a moment's notice with no presence of any remorse - something I used to do as well. I did those things, but I always thought back on them and wondered what I was doing and what was going on.

It is the rigid values that crystallized everything for me. I had to admit to myself the truth; my values are in fact malleable. Now it seems like they're rigid and unmoving, because of my 4w5, but the moment I have an emotional plea from someone, I can adapt to empathize with their situation. I could dislike a murderer based on the news, and then meet the person, and wish them a good life and never want them to spend a moment in jail (granted, if they were actually likable). In this way, I also had to admit one of the hardest things, that I was/am extremely susceptible to manipulation and control. Everyone is, but I always thought I was immune. Owning the reality that I am just as controllable as all the other sheep I saw around me was difficult, but in realizing it I began to cut out a lot of outside influence and look inward more.

There was a meme or imagery of an INFJ, where the INFJ sees a homeless person on the street and says, "This is atrocious! We should do everything we can as a society to help this homeless person!" And that kind of stuck with me. I've felt that way, but the rest of the story isn't in the image; nothing happens. The INFJ can call out all the things wrong with a situation, and truly does see the best way to solve problems, but needs other people for the most part to take action on the plan.

Going back and developing my own understanding, I found a couple data points which formed my own typing understanding, which I've since used with massive results in my own life. One aspect of this, which may help you, is if you are 'researching' stuff as INFJ, you're failing. Ni/Ti is a creative force, able to create ideas and knowledge/patterns from seemingly nothing. So the more you dive into topics, you're trying to use Ne/Te to get to your solution. You're trying to grab all the information, instead of relying on your intuition and thinking independent of too much outside influence. Your best thinking, judgment, choices and so on, are made when alone, with no outside influence (and, hopefully, right after interacting with someone who has Fi). A phone call, where you don't agree with the person on the other side, but after the call, alone, you come to some new conclusion out of nowhere.

In short, the more you research, the more you look like an Ne/Te user, and lose the benefit of your main skill, which is Ni.

• You probably had a father who worked with machines; presses a button or does a thing or works on a computer and the machine produces work.
• Your mother probably loved you a lot but you always wanted more attention from her.

I can go into more detail here if you want on how those conclusions were formed.

As I looked within and studied what the heck was going on with me, I realized that I adapt almost instinctively to the people around me. Like... hearing someone walking around in the house, you might feel a sense of wondering what they are doing, but also a bit of stress, that maybe they hear you hearing them or something weird. I realize that is just trying to extract Fe information through inferior Se, which is not really possible, but you kind of like... want to somehow know what the other person is feeling simply by how they are moving around the house. Are their footsteps angry, or upset, or coming or going, or happy or what. It's so odd. I've relaxed on this a bit, now understanding it, but it's still there.

And then when it comes to other groups of people, I blend right in with just about anyone. It's easy to become what someone else needs or wants in the moment. This - maybe I mentioned it elsewhere in some other comment - but it's like I'm not ever who I really am. Who I am is a mirror to anyone else around me. The word mirror is probably one of the more powerful words I found when coming to understand myself. And then as I looked at it more, engaging with other people, fully attempting to analyze myself during the same moments I was interacting with others without a hitch, I saw it. I'm becoming what they wanted, what they needed, and whoever I am, whatever I am, ceases to exist.

This eventually leads to the paradox mindset, where INFJ can hold two opposing values in mind at the same time. This seems to not be the case for other types except in intellectual pursuits. Like seeing the homeless person and both thinking society should do all it can to get this person taken care of, while at the same time peering into the person and thinking they should be working to get themselves out of their situation. That's a light topic, or, example, but yeah. To be yourself, and to be someone else, at the same time, is weird. This is why INFJ go off and isolate a lot, because they lose sight of who they are, and need time to recover and find themselves again. Not figuratively, but literally. You might be interacting with someone and loving a certain color or thing, but then get home alone and a day later not like the color or thing at all and it means nothing to you.

You loved who you were when you were the you that is who you are when you're with that person.

Can I shorten that?

You loved who you were when you were with that person.

I dunno first one makes more sense saying the same thing.

I studied INFJ intensively since, and your writing and so on stands out as INFJ. Writing is writing messages into the brain of the reader, so, being someone who wants to create an emotion in people, so you can use your Fe, you became very adept at using Ni/Ti to write and create a way of writing which gets the responses you're looking for. It shows in the writing. Do our writing styles have some similar tone to you? Do you recognize some familiarity there? Look how others write. You know it's a different patterned mind on that alone. It's so weird.

The only thing your initial post had me question was your lack of desire for a relationship. But, this could be many factors, and I cannot reconcile it, and it does fall into more of an INTJ territory, but as we become the type needed depending on our environment, you are probably that way due to your environment, and not who you really are. I think you are probably a 4w5 enneagram. I've just seen it enough to recognize it perhaps. But yeah the relationship thing doesn't make too much sense unless you already have friends in those 2-3 friends that you see often enough who have lots of Fi. Like... if your good friends are all strong Fi users such as ENFP and INFP you are probably feeling 'full' all the time and not seeking a relationship to fill the void of emotional energy.

I will link you in private some videos. A good channel to watch is this one. She was amazing in helping me fully understand my type.

https://www.youtube.com/c/YourNeverSleepingBeauty

Thank you so much for your info and help! Just sent you pm.