Personality Cafe banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
748 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I can find things that don't add up and things that are right about me in all type descriptions. I have thought I was a 4w5 for a very long time but the weird thing is that I don't think being unique is such a great accomplishment. In my life I actually spent more time trying to be normal than trying to be special. So, yes. Here is the questionnaire.


Main Questions

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?
Being loved. Being good. Loving. Understanding, seeing, creating.

2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?
Developing my talents, being a wholesome soul, improving the world, finding my niche, making love, making beauty.

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?
I fear becoming a failure, that is, not being whom I want to be, not doing what I should do, wasting my life away, giving in to the pressure of society or the fear of loneliness. I fear making the wrong choices for the wrong reasons or bringing doom on myself by not choosing at all. I fear choosing comfort over accomplishment. Being not good enough, basically.

4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?
I mentions some of them in answer to the previous question, but I could add some more, beside loneliness and failure. I fear being criticized and I'm afraid of losing things I have, especially traits and talents. Being too late and being left out. Why, why, why? I could not face myself, the shame, the guilt, the sorrow, the 'what could have been'.

5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?
Shhh, that's what I'm trying so hard find out! What I'd like to be, ultimately, is some sort of muse/guru/free spirit/anchor. All at once. And I feel like I have to be that, like that's what I need to do with my life. Be that. Be her. Be perfect. Or else...!
Some sort of mix between:
and

6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
Best: being a beautiful person doing wonderful things and being admired for it.
Worst: being an ugly nuisance of a slacker laughed at by people and hindering others.

7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.
Anger is what happens when I feel like something should have happened/be happening, but it isn’t happening and I have no control over it. The feeling (which I feel in my stomach) can be compared to the noise of a departing airplane when you are standing close to it. Drowns out everything, unbearable, and the only way to calm it down would be to scream as loud as the noise so you are bigger than the anger and you have conquered it---then there is some sort of silence. Anger is noise, the opposite is silence.
Shame is what I feel when I’m not good enough or did something wrong and I should have known better. I can be ashamed to face myself or others (but ultimately they are the same). Shame feels icy cold, like a cold shower, and a warm bath is its opposite and its solution.
Anxiety is just uncertainty and foreseeing suffering.

8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.
The weird thing is that my reaction to all three can be very different, it’s quite unpredictable, and stress if often a reaction in itself. The easiest to describe would be conflict; I want it solved immediately. Depending on involved I am, I will go for the confrontation, especially when I feel I’m in the right. When I’m less sure of myself or I don’t care, I try to talk it through with the other person or I’ll apologise on my part. When someone has issues with me and I’m very uncertain of my having done the right thing, I won’t defend myself and will avoid the confrontation. But again, I don’t really know how to answer this entire question so I would not base your verdict on this. I just don’t know how I usually react, it depends on so many things and even then it can differ.
Unexpected change usually puts me off (alarm phase one!) but it can be a welcome distraction or throw a new light on something I had been in the dark about, which is nice. But it never leaves me indifferent.
Like I said, stress is a reaction, not something you can react to, unless you want to get very meta (I’m fine with that as well). Again, I don’t really know, it really differs a lot. I think I usually retreat and focus on something else and overanalyse that.

9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?
Competence is the key. I know people in authoritative roles whom I trust to make the right choices with good timing and who have a balance of justice and mercy. I like, trust and respect these people and they usually don't have to show their authority to me at all. I feel safe. But if someone has power over me and I don't think they're fit to have that power for some reason, I get anxious and want to leave, or, if possible, I want to take over their position, like when I have to do a group project and it's obviously going wrong. I don't want to rule the world, but I do see things that are going wrong and I feel the need to step in there. Things like "you have to do as I tell you because I am older/your mother/paid more" make me more determined not to follow their lead. A good leader can convince me with real arguments.

10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?

Humanity i love you
e. e. cummings

Humanity i love you
because you would rather black the boots of
success than enquire whose soul dangles from his
watch-chain which would be embarrassing for both

parties and because you
unflinchingly applaud all
songs containing the words country home and
mother when sung at the old howard

Humanity i love you because
when you're hard up you pawn your
intelligence to buy a drink and when
you're flush pride keeps

you from the pawn shop and
because you are continually committing
nuisances but more
especially in your own house

Humanity i love you because you
are perpetually putting the secret of
life in your pants and forgetting
it's there and sitting down

on it
and because you are
forever making poems in the lap
of death Humanity

i hate you


Optional Questions

12. Comment on your relationship with trust.
Trust is believing someone/something will not hurt you when you make yourself vulnerable by it. It is a rare thing for me and I cherish it. My trust has very often been betrayed in the past. It happens that I want to trust someone so badly that I ignore the ‘danger’ signs. Can’t help it, I’m afraid, but I should anyway.

13. List some of the traits you: a) like; b) dislike most about yourself.
I feel like I have a hate-love relationship with all of my traits. Nothing is completely good and nothing is completely bad, I have found, and my taste in traits changes frequently.

14. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
Almost everything I notice other people don't. I see their motivations, their feelings, their fears, all kinds of things. When I hear people gossiping about someone who gives negative comments on everything, I will give a lecture on what could be causing that behaviour and how it could be helped. One friend once told me she thought I was omniscient for this reason.

15. If a stranger insults you, how do you respond/feel? What if they compliment you?
When it's an insult I'm easily hurt but I will try to analyse the comment--why did he/she say it, are they insecure/bigoted, was it true what they said? I will doubt them as well as myself. When it's a compliment I do pretty much the same: it feels good, but I challenge their intention or insight.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
748 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You are right, I don't really see it now. I read the entire article but my eyebrows rose in the first sentence--

Nines are the most patient and tolerant types in the enneagram.

I don't know, I just get annoyed so quickly. But maybe the chore of this annoyance is that of the peacemaker, because I get annoyed when people are making a fuss of something that has a simple solution but they won't listen to me. I also hate it when there is a real issue and people are like "well, let's just enjoy our dinner, shall we?".

I didn't get any a-ha feeling reading it, but I won't leave out the option. It's just not at all what I would have thought.

-----

I just read this on the Enneagram Institute website:

We have sometimes called the Nine the crown of the Enneagram because it is at the top of the symbol and because it seems to include the whole of it. Nines can have the strength of Eights, the sense of fun and adventure of Sevens, the dutifulness of Sixes, the intellectualism of Fives, the creativity of Fours, the attractiveness of Threes, the generosity of Twos, and the idealism of Ones. However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity.

Well, that does sound exactly true, ironically. I often thought I might be every Enneagram type if that were possible! So, I'm going to do more research. Thank you for this!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,469 Posts
To be honest. Nothing on PerC convinced me I was a 9. I bought a book and I was reading about the type 9 just to learn more about it and I was like: "Wow, that's me."
I do not have the book at the moment but I will contact you with it if you would like me to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
Typing you from the title alone makes me conclude 9. Haven't read your questionnair though which could tell me something different. ;D

NOW I've read it...and I'm not quite the expert... but your text kinda sounds more 4ish to me. I don't see a core 9 in it...

Oh, I see you're Dutch.


He's got videos with a 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, and 9. So unfortunately no 4, 3 or 8... sometimes he's stereotyping. But you can still kinda learn something about every type in every video.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Adriana

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
Adriana, I also see you as a core 9. Most likely 9w1.
I'm not an expert on the enneagram, but these things struck me as very 9-ish:

2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?
Developing my talents, being a wholesome soul, improving the world, finding my niche, making love, making beauty.
A peaceful attitude, with the idealism to improve the world.
Also, the desire become a wholesome soul is very much the desire of a Nine. At their core is a fear of annihilation and emptiness, that must be overcome be becoming a wholesome being.
Actually, Nines that are aware of this often display similarities with Fours. But where Fours place emphasis on defining an unique identity, Nines are more on a quest to find their true identity (and hence have more fluid borders).

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?
I fear becoming a failure, that is, not being whom I want to be, not doing what I should do, wasting my life away, giving in to the pressure of society or the fear of loneliness. I fear making the wrong choices for the wrong reasons or bringing doom on myself by not choosing at all. I fear choosing comfort over accomplishment. Being not good enough, basically.
The vice of a Nine is sloth. In more unhealthy states they are prone to numb themselves down and postpones things. Waiting "until you're good and ready" is a very 9-ish thing to do (there's even a thread dedicated to this).
But it's a good thing to fear comfort over accomplishment, as it displays integration to type Three (the achiever).

6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
Best: being a beautiful person doing wonderful things and being admired for it.
Worst: being an ugly nuisance of a slacker laughed at by people and hindering others.
Again: fear of giving in to the Nine's vice (sloth) and the desire to be successful and admired person (integration to Three). Not wanting to impose and hinder others is also a very 9-ish thing.


Just take some time to read up on things, and see how you feel about type 9 :)
(I'm also a 9 who initially typed as 4w5/5w4 - at times, they can look surprisingly similar)

No idea about your other fixes, I'll leave these to the experts :crazy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
@apple pie
Ha...interesting...usually I find 9s to be quite obviously 9s... Maybe a 4 fix in them could blurr my view...? Or do you think @Adriana doesn't have a 4 fix at all?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
748 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I read these descriptions and the last one really hit home.

sx/sp 9w1

This typewingstack embodies the passion of sloth very well. They desire personal development and enlightenment. However, their sloth is always one step ahead of them. They know what they gotta do, but can't summon the motivation to do it. They get more in touch with their own willpower later on in life. They do very well in fields that involve listening and connection so long as they can get their judgmental 1 wing under control. They have less drive for comfort and more drive for intense experiences. These 9s can sit around and have long conversations with people they hardly know in the strangest places and lose themselves in ripples only the 9 is aware of. Their fractured identities can also manifest in their living environment....i.e. some parts could be on the warm and bright side while other parts are plain and unattended to. More than other 9w1s, this 9w1 can virtually run on a fast and scattered autopilot for long periods of time with virtually no productive activity. Depression and self-destruction is not uncommon. They are most attuned to the sense that underneath all the things they know they have to do and attain, there is an essential nothingness at the core of existence, even of their own 'identity', and this only further locks them into their narcolepsy. Afterall, becoming awake would bring them to terms with this nothingness and that's not something they want to confront. They don't usually have a social network to fall back on. They idealize connections to such an extent that finding a friend is like searching for a needle in a haystack.... They can wind up feeling completely numb, lost, lonely, and longing for a blissful sense of completion that can only come from a relationship. Perhaps this is why no 9w1 is more pushy and assertive when it comes to merging. When they do, it's as if they are totally blind to any boundary between themselves and the other. As they get older, they can grow more guarded and less excited/open to the flow of experience.

I did not like reading this, but I think it describes me well, a bit too well for my liking. And what @apple pie wrote really makes sense. I am aware of my own laziness and I would so very much like to deny its presence. This is true for emptiness, too. I don't necessarily fear choosing comfort over accomplishment, but what I fear is that I won't be able to motivate myself to start now, that's what I foresee and it frightens me.

@PlushWitch, I watched the video, it was very interesting but I was a little shocked at how quickly he ruled out certain types. I think I would have given pretty much the same answers as this John. I watched his other videos too. There were questions for all types that I would have answered positively, but not every question.

About type 4... There are obviously some things I identify with of that type, but I really don't think uniqueness is a good target. If it's a by-product, well, that's great, and obviously I dislike mundaneness and meaninglessness, but striving for being special seems so strange to me. And it's not so special at all. I don't think being unique is what I most long for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
@PlushWitch, I watched the video, it was very interesting but I was a little shocked at how quickly he ruled out certain types. I think I would have given pretty much the same answers as this John. I watched his other videos too. There were questions for all types that I would have answered positively, but not every question.
Yeah, he does...I think in some cases it was justified. But in others it was probably just because he wanted to prove his point and to keep his facade in his 3ish way... I just didn't take him seriously when he did that. :laughing:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Owfin and Adriana

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
@PlushWitch

Nines aren’t always that obvious :)

Of course I don’t know your exact definition of a ‘typical 9’, but the thing is that most descriptions make us look like slight airheads... Nines are often described as persons who go with the flow and get absorbed in the outside world as their self is too dull/empty and never question this or even become aware of it.
Many more intelligent and/or introspective Nines are put off by this happy-go-lucky attitude as they are very well aware of this knot of emptiness and can be quite pained by it.

@PlushWitch and @Adriana

As image fix I could see 3 or 4 (I did not see 2 at all).
But 4 is indeed more likely as the things that point to 3 are more due to 9 rolling around.

After re-reading the OP:
The obsession with a perfect self; and the whole “I want to be guru, muse, anchor, spirt, him, her, Suzanne and it’s never ever enough” is quite a 9 with 4 fix thing to say (imo). I can really relate to this.
I found that the 9’s feelings of emptiness can trigger some identity issues similar to the ones of a 4. 9 and 4 tend to go along well in this aspect, and can influence and reïnforce each other.
But of course, if you’re a 9 some fundamental motivations will always be different than the ones of a core 4. Having a 4 fix will not automatically override all these preferences. If (nearly) everything in the type 4 profile matched up perfectly, you would be a core 4, not a core 9.

9 > < 4
fear of annihilation, emptiness >< fear of not having an identity
leads to / can lead to
search for the perfect self >< search for the unique self
"merging" (adopting/mirroring qualities and feel oneness) >< "introjection" (adopting/cultivating qualities and feel envy)


As a 9 with a 4 fix, I have quite some identity issues, but I’ll mostly search for and cultivate a ‘perfect’ identity as opposed to an ‘unique’ one. Because in the end, while I do waver between feelings of self-loathing and superiority/uniqueness, I feel that it more desireable to become a succesfull and admireable person who is able to deal with the ‘normalities’ of life and lives in harmony with her surroundings.
(Thing is, deep down, 4s want to be accepted as well. But they will have more volatile push-pull reactions.)

9s are able to relate to a wide range of people by a process called merging. They will mirror certain aspects in certain situations and feel oneness. 4s will suck in desired traits by a process called introjection and create a composite. They will envy the persons who previously had these qualities (and wish they didn’t have it).
With 9+4 you have two parallel processess of deriving an identity and both can bring resentment, as they both ultimately and paradoxally derive the self from ‘the other’.

Rambleramble...
The above is mainly based on my personal experiences, so it might be different for other people. Was this something you could relate to, Adriana?

Also bear in mind that, in the end, the core type is about your motivations, and the image fix is ‘merely’ about how you deal with shame.
4 fixers will overcome their shame by focussing on their talents and cultivating a certain image / fantasy.
3 fixers are more out of touch with it and will subconsciously overcome it by becoming a succesful person.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
748 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
apple pie Thank you for your post! I agree with lots of things you mentioned about being a 9 with a 4 fix, but the lilac text confused me again because the opposing things aren't mutually exclusive in my book and sometimes I didn't really agree with either.

I dug up more info about nines, but though they have a lot of common with me, I am much more confrontational. I will stand up for things and sometimes when everybody agrees on something it makes me all the more suspicious.

I really identify with basically everything in this description: Type 4 Enneagram Type Description |9types.com. (Yes, except for the uniqueness. I don't understand uniqueness for the sake of being unique but I do love standing out in a positive way.)

The nine description, however... Type 9 Enneagram Type Description |9types.com

I'm not all that placid and indecisive (though I can be). When I'm upset I will seek confrontation (I have been called too confrontational, but next to an E8 I would look like a limp sheep I guess) and throughout my childhood I really showed my feelings in all their intensity (again causing problems).

9s are able to relate to a wide range of people by a process called merging. They will mirror certain aspects in certain situations and feel oneness. 4s will suck in desired traits by a process called introjection and create a composite. They will envy the persons who previously had these qualities (and wish they didn’t have it).
With 9+4 you have two parallel processess of deriving an identity and both can bring resentment, as they both ultimately and paradoxally derive the self from ‘the other’.

I merge and introject and I have issues with shame, anger and envy. How to tell 4-9 from 9-4?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
Um. Something got conveyed wrong. The lilac points were not meant to be mutally exclusive. I jwanted to point out that 9 and 4 have certain issues and mechanisms that can look very similar. And with both fixes you’ll most likely have both, but the main questions to ask yourself are:
  • Wich one came first? I don’t know if it’s the same for all people, but I can trace nearly everything back to the core type (and in some sense the other fixes could be seen as how the core deals with those triads). It’s what I briefly described in my previous post.
  • When it all boils down to it, wich one outweighs the other? Cultivating a certain image or experiencing wholeness?

As for the placidity:
Type 9 is usually associated with and written from an IxxP perspective. I could certainly see an IxxJ type 9 as more judgmental/confrontational. Also, being sx-first would naturally give you more intensity and assertiveness. That being said, IxxP 9s and sp or so 9s aren’t ultimate doormats either :’)

---
I also remembered there’s a 9w1 sx/sp member here who used to be quite active in the type-me threads. And since I’m not offering to much new input/perspectives in this post...
@babblingbrook: I usually found your posts insightful and to the point. What’s your take on Adriana’s type?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Thanks apple pie, your argumentation is pretty good, I enjoyed reading your posts :)

But unlike you, I see core 4 for Adriana, not core 9. I see integration to type 1 rather than type 3, which I think is obvious from the OP:

"I fear making the wrong choices for the wrong reasons or bringing doom on myself by not choosing at all." "Being not good enough, basically"

"What I'd like to be, ultimately, is some sort of muse/guru/free spirit/anchor. All at once. And I feel like I have to be that, like that's what I need to do with my life. Be that. Be her. Be perfect. Or else...!"

"Best: being a beautiful person doing wonderful things and being admired for it."

This sounds very type 4'ish:
"Shame is what I feel when I’m not good enough or did something wrong and I should have known better. I can be ashamed to face myself or others (but ultimately they are the same). Shame feels icy cold, like a cold shower, and a warm bath is its opposite and its solution."

You seem more dramatic than relaxed, more confrontational than numb, more melancholic than phlegmatic. You seem more of a "difficult" person, rather than an easy-going person. No negative connotations!

I like how you mixed your identity from two songs and put the poem in your post, seems very Ne! I can see both type 9's and 4's doing this.

But the type 9w1 sx sp is not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern.
"Worst: being an ugly nuisance of a slacker laughed at by people and hindering others."
I think you are much less indifferent, I'd say for a good reason! I think your fear is that you have no personal significance, the fear of a type 4.

Type 9's main struggle is to find out who they are and what they want in life, since they have an undefined sense of self. Type 4's are much more inhabited in their own body and thus more present and self aware.

The basic desire of a type 4 is to find themselves and their significance, to create an identity, which sounds similar to a type 9 but isn't. apple pie posted a pretty good explanation of the differences.

"I don't think being unique is such a great accomplishment." I think this is just because of the wording. You want to find your own personal voice, to contribute something with your own talents, to find your own niche. Being unique is not an end in itself.

If you have any more questions or doubts, you're welcome to ask. These video's might also help you out deciding:

Also: http://personalitycafe.com/type-9-forum-peacemaker/8097-type-nine-misidentifications.html#post177763
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
748 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Thank you both! I'm learning so much here, it's fantastic! :)


Thanks apple pie, your argumentation is pretty good, I enjoyed reading your posts :)

But unlike you, I see core 4 for Adriana, not core 9. I see integration to type 1 rather than type 3, which I think is obvious from the OP:

"I fear making the wrong choices for the wrong reasons or bringing doom on myself by not choosing at all." "Being not good enough, basically"

"What I'd like to be, ultimately, is some sort of muse/guru/free spirit/anchor. All at once. And I feel like I have to be that, like that's what I need to do with my life. Be that. Be her. Be perfect. Or else...!"

"Best: being a beautiful person doing wonderful things and being admired for it."

This sounds very type 4'ish:
"Shame is what I feel when I’m not good enough or did something wrong and I should have known better. I can be ashamed to face myself or others (but ultimately they are the same). Shame feels icy cold, like a cold shower, and a warm bath is its opposite and its solution."

You seem more dramatic than relaxed, more confrontational than numb, more melancholic than phlegmatic. You seem more of a "difficult" person, rather than an easy-going person. No negative connotations!
Yes, I think this is might be true most of the time. No negative connotations interpreted! (Well, as far as I could contain myself, of course!) I was talking to a friend yesterday about how different people come across to others and she said I can scare people because I will be gregarious and easygoing one moment but become very intense and expressive another, or strong in asserting my stance. But when there is a change of rejection, failure, or anything leading to that shame and self-loathing, I am terrified of confrontation even though I know it's got to happen.

I like how you mixed your identity from two songs and put the poem in your post, seems very Ne! I can see both type 9's and 4's doing this.
Thank you! If I had known better how to describe my intent perfectly myself I would have done that, but since I couldn't, what's a better second option than summoning the masters who can? What we love is part of who we are and I've loved those songs years, the poem as well. I can see how it would appear Ne-ish, weaving themes together, making a collage, but in the end I'd prefer finding my own words and drawing a true conclusion, Ni-style.

But the type 9w1 sx sp is not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern.
"Worst: being an ugly nuisance of a slacker laughed at by people and hindering others."
I think you are much less indifferent, I'd say for a good reason! I think your fear is that you have no personal significance, the fear of a type 4.
Funny, the image I had of fours made me think they were more concerned with what they themselves thought and less with what others found and I admired that. I think I care too much in general. But if that image is wrong, I'll re-educate myself!

Type 9's main struggle is to find out who they are and what they want in life, since they have an undefined sense of self. Type 4's are much more inhabited in their own body and thus more present and self aware.

The basic desire of a type 4 is to find themselves and their significance, to create an identity, which sounds similar to a type 9 but isn't. apple pie posted a pretty good explanation of the differences.

"I don't think being unique is such a great accomplishment." I think this is just because of the wording. You want to find your own personal voice, to contribute something with your own talents, to find your own niche. Being unique is not an end in itself.
Thank you, this clears it up even more. I think you are right, I am a four after all. "Unique" and "special" are still very negative words to me, like "weird", they are so often used as backhanded compliments. But "authentic" and "personal" are very good words.

If you have any more questions or doubts, you're welcome to ask. These video's might also help you out deciding:

Also: http://personalitycafe.com/type-9-forum-peacemaker/8097-type-nine-misidentifications.html#post177763
I watched both videos, the type 4 one for the second time. Both were very interesting and the 9 people were very endearing, it was like watching a flashforward of my home in 10 years or something, familiar and still distant. Very steadying and calming. I think maybe my best friend (ISFP) might be a core 9 which would explain the homely association I had. The 4 video was more like a hard look in the mirror for touched many of my greater weaknesses, for example the bit about doing things for image's sake (the cello practice), it's a big issue for me. So I'm deciding on type 4 as my core type right now and probably a 9 gut fix.

I'm curious, what do you make of my head fix? I'm guessing 5 or 6 but probably 6. Would that make sense? I identify more with the Seeker archetype than with the Contemplative archetype. I used to think I was a 468 Truth Teller, it still describes me well. It says here: "The 468 reacts and rings the alarm to prevent making a mistake to calm down and the 469 doubts and procrastinates to avoid making a mistake.... To calm down."I do both depending on the situation but ringing the alarm would calm me more, if others would take my worries seriously.

@apple pie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Thank you both! I'm learning so much here, it's fantastic! :)
Yes, I think this is might be true most of the time. No negative connotations interpreted! (Well, as far as I could contain myself, of course!) I was talking to a friend yesterday about how different people come across to others and she said I can scare people because I will be gregarious and easygoing one moment but become very intense and expressive another, or strong in asserting my stance. But when there is a change of rejection, failure, or anything leading to that shame and self-loathing, I am terrified of confrontation even though I know it's got to happen.
You're welcome. As a core type 9 I'm much more passive-aggresive which mainly manifests itself as stubbornness. I can lash out at people, but only if my anger has been build up for too long. This usually scares the hell out of people and even myself.

Thank you! If I had known better how to describe my intent perfectly myself I would have done that, but since I couldn't, what's a better second option than summoning the masters who can? What we love is part of who we are and I've loved those songs years, the poem as well. I can see how it would appear Ne-ish, weaving themes together, making a collage, but in the end I'd prefer finding my own words and drawing a true conclusion, Ni-style.
Ah yes, I see you've changed types. That's probably another story :) I love playing Suzanne on guitar.

Funny, the image I had of fours made me think they were more concerned with what they themselves thought and less with what others found and I admired that. I think I care too much in general. But if that image is wrong, I'll re-educate myself!
I think you have to read it in the right context: "so" first is probably more aware and concerned with what other people find. In a way everyone is concerned of what others might think of them. Yet type 4 is in the image triad, which makes them more concerned with their image. You've said: "Worst: being an ugly nuisance of a slacker laughed at by people and hindering others." I think this is because you want to have a personal significance. When you have significance you won't be "an ugly nuisance of a slacker laughed at by people and hindering others."

Also, what do you think your instinctual stackings are, sx/sp?

I'm curious, what do you make of my head fix? I'm guessing 5 or 6 but probably 6. Would that make sense? I identify more with the Seeker archetype than with the Contemplative archetype. I used to think I was a 468 Truth Teller, it still describes me well. It says here: "The 468 reacts and rings the alarm to prevent making a mistake to calm down and the 469 doubts and procrastinates to avoid making a mistake.... To calm down."I do both depending on the situation but ringing the alarm would calm me more, if others would take my worries seriously.
I'm not sure about your head fix. Type 6 could be right (type 9 and 6 are connected, type 9 disintegrates to type 6, type 6 integrates to type 9). I do not see type 8.

I am also in the process of meeting other NF's, since I do not know many. I know PerC is working on a way to make it easier for members of the forum to meet up with eachother, but it's still toekomstmuziek. If you are perhaps from around Utrecht and would like to talk about MBTI, the enneagram and books and other NF stuff I think that would be awesome :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: PlushWitch

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
@babblingbrook haha, glad I wasn't the only one who got "4" from what @Adriana wrote. :laughing: :wink:

I also don't see an 8 fix and agree with 9 instead.

As for your head fix I don't know right now...

Btw. my hubby is going to be in Utrecht next week. ;P I'm not. :crazy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
@babblingbrook:
Thank you. That was really insightful!
I may have pointed out some differences and similarties between 4 and 9, but I failed at discerning them in the OP. I got focussed on some 9 elements, and subsequently saw the 1 traits as the wing (as opposed to the integration point). Accomplishment isn’t the sole domain of 3s either.
Agh! I still have a lot to learn!

@Adriana:
Overall, I had more of a 6ish impression. Questions 9 and 12 in particular.

Competence is the key. I know people in authoritative roles whom I trust to make the right choices with good timing and who have a balance of justice and mercy. I like, trust and respect these people and they usually don't have to show their authority to me at all. I feel safe.
Fives tend to be fairly indifferent towards authorties, or might even experience them as intruding. They don’t want to be restrained and mainly value their own (intellectual) competence. Subsequently, they will not seek safetiy from an outward entity, they will seek safetiy by retreating in their own minds.

Trust is believing someone/something will not hurt you when you make yourself vulnerable by it. It is a rare thing for me and I cherish it. My trust has very often been betrayed in the past. It happens that I want to trust someone so badly that I ignore the ‘danger’ signs. Can’t help it, I’m afraid, but I should anyway.
Type 6 will have difficulties to take on a vulnerable position if their trust has been betrayed in the past. Same goes for 5 (and really any type, I guess), but 5s REALLY have problems with these vulnerable positions even if their trust hasn’t been betrayed yet/before.
Fives detach and observe the world, because it is a *secure* position where they can gather knowledge. They believe that they can never completely connect with others, so one of their greatest fears is actually making themselves vulnerable and see this belief become reality.

And well... I’ve mentioned it a few times before. Fives withdraw. Sixes are more like troubleshouters. Identify the problem and deal with it. That certainly seems more like you (though it can’t be assigned solely to these fixes).

For the gut fix I still think it’s 9. :crazy:
You’re certainly more assertive than I am, but I really did not see 8.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
748 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
:)

All in all, I think 469 fits me. From the research I've done my instinctual variant stacking would be sx/sp. I'm pretty certain my sexual instinct is dominant and the social instinct is my blind spot. I'm really not that aware of my self-preservation instinct so that makes sense too. The description:

SX/SP This is a very volatile type. They are driven to form connections but have very high demands of their partners. When their powerful fantasies don’t match reality, they become very restless. They take the fire and passion of the sexual instinct and turn it inward. This can cause both brooding and fiery outbursts. Dramatic mood swings are very likely with this type. This subtype of Four could be considered the most classic Four, because of the way they seem to embody the archetype of the tortured artist, although not all Fours of this subtype are artists. Stereotype aside, this subtype does tend to bring their emotions into focus more readily then the other subtypes of Four. What is under the surface with the self-pres/sexual is now bubbling to the surface. This subtype can resemble type Seven because of their drama, passion for experience and tendency to suffer from frustration when life seems dull. Like type Seven, they can seem to throw themselves into experience.


I cannot deny.



---

@apple pie

Overall, I had more of a 6ish impression. Questions 9 and 12 in particular.
Fives tend to be fairly indifferent towards authorties, or might even experience them as intruding. They don’t want to be restrained and mainly value their own (intellectual) competence. Subsequently, they will not seek safetiy from an outward entity, they will seek safetiy by retreating in their own minds.

Type 6 will have difficulties to take on a vulnerable position if their trust has been betrayed in the past. Same goes for 5 (and really any type, I guess), but 5s REALLY have problems with these vulnerable positions even if their trust hasn’t been betrayed yet/before.
Fives detach and observe the world, because it is a *secure* position where they can gather knowledge. They believe that they can never completely connect with others, so one of their greatest fears is actually making themselves vulnerable and see this belief become reality.

And well... I’ve mentioned it a few times before. Fives withdraw. Sixes are more like troubleshouters. Identify the problem and deal with it. That certainly seems more like you (though it can’t be assigned solely to these fixes).
For the gut fix I still think it’s 9.

You’re certainly more assertive than I am, but I really did not see 8.
Thank you for this, it really seems right. I do identify somewhat with the 5w4 description but I definitely don't detach myself from anything, in fact when I feel detached it doesn't feel safe for me at all, being nowhere, floating in mid-air. For safety, I won't retreat or escape but I'll find the nearest thing that makes me feel alive and cling to it. I guess also points to the sx-instinct. Under stress I will hide in my room for days, but then stress is much different from just feeling unsafe.

@PlushWitch:-D you can have your "I told you so!", after all, you told me so!

@babblingbrook

You're welcome. As a core type 9 I'm much more passive-aggresive which mainly manifests itself as stubbornness. I can lash out at people, but only if my anger has been build up for too long. This usually scares the hell out of people and even myself.
I heard the same thing in a podcast about 9s, building up anger and then exploding and scaring oneself with it. Some of the 9s mentioned feeling guilty about it afterwards. I'm not like that, after an angry outburst I usually feel strangely contented, like when I've just written a poem or handed in my letter of resignation. And then I wonder if there's something wrong with me because I should feel terrible but I don't.

Ah yes, I see you've changed types. That's probably another story :) I love playing Suzanne on guitar.

I think you have to read it in the right context: "so" first is probably more aware and concerned with what other people find. In a way everyone is concerned of what others might think of them. Yet type 4 is in the image triad, which makes them more concerned with their image. You've said: "Worst: being an ugly nuisance of a slacker laughed at by people and hindering others." I think this is because you want to have a personal significance. When you have significance you won't be "an ugly nuisance of a slacker laughed at by people and hindering others."

Also, what do you think your instinctual stackings are, sx/sp?

I'm not sure about your head fix. Type 6 could be right (type 9 and 6 are connected, type 9 disintegrates to type 6, type 6 integrates to type 9). I do not see type 8.

I am also in the process of meeting other NF's, since I do not know many. I know PerC is working on a way to make it easier for members of the forum to meet up with eachother, but it's still toekomstmuziek. If you are perhaps from around Utrecht and would like to talk about MBTI, the enneagram and books and other NF stuff I think that would be awesome :)
I read this here about so as last variant:
Soc blind spot - finds it hard to concern self with another’s agenda, dismissive. They may feel that connecting socially will cost them something and consider interactions to be draining. Would rather act as a lone force, feeling that they don't need others and others don't need them. Fear of being emotionally crippled, being unable to connect with people, self-conscious of being socially ungracious. It’s hard to take in the gifts and generosity of others. One doesn’t let oneself try to interact or find out. Projected fear - if I ignore others, they will ignore me. There’s an expectation of humiliation. A desire not to impose self on people in fear of not being wanted or being klutzy.

If instinctual variant dynamics are indeed like this it would explain a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
@PlushWitch:-D you can have your "I told you so!", after all, you told me so!
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA....:laughing:
hmmm... yeah, I seem to have told you so... :shocked:

Only not about the 6 cause I didn't know at that point. ;D But I think I can also see it as your head fix... O:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Choice and Adriana
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top