Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Human 1: Hi Human 2, how are you doing?
Human 2: Not too good, I'm feeling a little stressed.
Human 1: Ah everyone is stressed these days. Why don't you try, meditation or yoga or watching a movie? These things always help me to relieve stress.
Human 2: I've tried all those but it doesn't seem to help.
Human 1: Hmm, how about joining my kickboxing class? It will help you to relieve all your pent up frustrations?
Human 2: Hmm, actually I'm just worried about the presentation I have to give next week. I think I better get back home now to work on it some more.

Ok that didn't really turn out the way I envisioned it, but the scenario is close enough. I have been on the receiving end of help that didn't really address the problem I was facing. It was frustrating for me trying to get my problem across. You know how some people are, once they get started on some topic close to their heart, they just can't stop.

Admittedly, I have made the mistake in giving trying to help myself. Sometimes when I start I can't stop as well; only to realize too late that I have been going off on the wrong tangent. I must be in love with hearing the sound of my own voice. Thankfully it doesn't happen often, but I have my moments. :tongue:

How many of you have been in a situation where someone offers well meaning advice that doesn't really address the problem you are facing? How do you feel about it? What do you do about it?

Have you ever been in a situation where you have given well meaning advice that didn't seem to tackle the real problem? How easy is it for you to fall into this kind of situation?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
It's very easy I suspect what you have raised covers a large proportion of people, both in terms of receiving and dishing out advice.

I am a qualified business coach - one of the core principles of non directive coaching is that people must work out their own solutions - you provide a framework and facilitation for that and sometimes some observations but mostly it's around drilling down, questioning and listening. That's right people pay good money for a really good listening to!

The actual issue is usually about 2 layers lower than where you are looking.

If you are interested in helping people in a non directive way(INFJs make very good coaches - we are naturals at some of this) there are some good books on coaching

whitmore's coaching for performance is really good - it's been out a while so you can pick up copies second hand at very reasonble prices. Although it is business oriented it's a great primer for this wonderful topic

Amazon.com: Coaching for Performance, Third Edition (People Skills for Professionals) (9781857883039): John Whitmore: Books
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
It's very easy I suspect what you have raised covers a large proportion of people, both in terms of receiving and dishing out advice.

I am a qualified business coach - one of the core principles of non directive coaching is that people must work out their own solutions - you provide a framework and facilitation for that and sometimes some observations but mostly it's around drilling down, questioning and listening. That's right people pay good money for a really good listening to!

The actual issue is usually about 2 layers lower than where you are looking.

If you are interested in helping people in a non directive way(INFJs make very good coaches - we are naturals at some of this) there are some good books on coaching

whitmore's coaching for performance is really good - it's been out a while so you can pick up copies second hand at very reasonble prices. Although it is business oriented it's a great primer for this wonderful topic

Amazon.com: Coaching for Performance, Third Edition (People Skills for Professionals) (9781857883039): John Whitmore: Books
Thanks for the recommendation Paul! I appreciate it. :happy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,005 Posts
Human 1: Hi Human 2, how are you doing?
Human 2: Not too good, I'm feeling a little stressed.
Human 1: Ah everyone is stressed these days. Why don't you try, meditation or yoga or watching a movie? These things always help me to relieve stress.
Human 2: I've tried all those but it doesn't seem to help.
Human 1: Hmm, how about joining my kickboxing class? It will help you to relieve all your pent up frustrations?
Human 2: Hmm, actually I'm just worried about the presentation I have to give next week. I think I better get back home now to work on it some more.

Ok that didn't really turn out the way I envisioned it, but the scenario is close enough. I have been on the receiving end of help that didn't really address the problem I was facing. It was frustrating for me trying to get my problem across. You know how some people are, once they get started on some topic close to their heart, they just can't stop.

Admittedly, I have made the mistake in giving trying to help myself. Sometimes when I start I can't stop as well; only to realize too late that I have been going off on the wrong tangent. I must be in love with hearing the sound of my own voice. Thankfully it doesn't happen often, but I have my moments. :tongue:

How many of you have been in a situation where someone offers well meaning advice that doesn't really address the problem you are facing? How do you feel about it? What do you do about it?

Have you ever been in a situation where you have given well meaning advice that didn't seem to tackle the real problem? How easy is it for you to fall into this kind of situation?
Ha. Honestly... the advice most people give me I am rather disappointed in and don't find beneficial at all, as I can come up with something better. So realistically one would ask, "Then why ever bother asking people for advice?" Well, that's because I have Fe and need to outwardly vent about emotions in order to feel like they make sense. I don't even want people to give me advice, because just the concept of outwardly letting it out is enough for me to then see it and hear it and make a determination myself.

I basically already know the answer to my issue via my Ni, its just that Fe requires me to get external validation about it.

I could list off many things that people have told me and I never find their advice helpful. Very few people have ever told me things that actually help, in fact, I've noticed that the only types that truly help me see something from a better angle are ENFPs and ENTPs.... their Ne is wonderful at helping me see the world with more possibilities and it also somehow challenges me/helps me to tap into my Ni better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Ha. Honestly... the advice most people give me I am rather disappointed in and don't find beneficial at all, as I can come up with something better. So realistically one would ask, "Then why ever bother asking people for advice?" Well, that's because I have Fe and need to outwardly vent about emotions in order to feel like they make sense. I don't even want people to give me advice, because just the concept of outwardly letting it out is enough for me to then see it and hear it and make a determination myself.

I basically already know the answer to my issue via my Ni, its just that Fe requires me to get external validation about it.

I could list off many things that people have told me and I never find their advice helpful. Very few people have ever told me things that actually help, in fact, I've noticed that the only types that truly help me see something from a better angle are ENFPs and ENTPs.... their Ne is wonderful at helping me see the world with more possibilities and it also somehow challenges me/helps me to tap into my Ni better.
Remind me not to give you advice. :tongue:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,325 Posts
If it's the case of just wanting to vent, people should get in the habit of adding a disclosure something along the lines of "no advice necessary, just want support/validation" or whatever. That'll clear the air.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
If it's the case of just wanting to vent, people should get in the habit of adding a disclosure something along the lines of "no advice necessary, just want support/validation" or whatever. That'll clear the air.
Agreed. In person I can usually pick up the cues if a person merely just want to vent. But online, it sometimes helps if that person tells me they just want to vent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,005 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Well I'm sure a fellow INFJ could actually provide some good insight. :wink:
Only when asked. :wink:

But since you are a Capricorn, I'm sure you have everything all nicely planned out. Actually, what you said should be my line. Just to make sure I didn't miss the details. :crazy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Have you ever been in a situation where you have given well meaning advice that didn't seem to tackle the real problem? How easy is it for you to fall into this kind of situation?
My experience is that most people offer advice that would be useful to them. Consider though that you have to take it with a dose of salt. What an ENFP says to you is going to be tailored to their cognitive preferences instinctively. Since we don't use them with the same directionality or order it will have to go through some translation to be useful.

The advice of other people can help but you have to consider that your ability to act on it internally may rely on using different functions for the same result. The advise from a person who uses Si for self-regulation will be good for the body (eat thing-X which is healthy for you) but they may be able to do this instinctively whereas you might have to plan by putting together a menu and purchasing Thing-X in certain quantities in advance. I know this sounds very NT but it is just to illustrate that the practical advice from some people often has to go through our cognitive babelfish to make sense.

If you are asking advice from the street preacher with the puppet who has a sign hanging from his shoulders that says "The End Cometh Nigh" - you can expect apocalyptic advice regarding puppets. Know your source ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
My experience is that most people offer advice that would be useful to them. Consider though that you have to take it with a dose of salt. What an ENFP says to you is going to be tailored to their cognitive preferences instinctively. Since we don't use them with the same directionality or order it will have to go through some translation to be useful.

The advice of other people can help but you have to consider that your ability to act on it internally may rely on using different functions for the same result. The advise from a person who uses Si for self-regulation will be good for the body (eat thing-X which is healthy for you) but they may be able to do this instinctively whereas you might have to plan by putting together a menu and purchasing Thing-X in certain quantities in advance. I know this sounds very NT but it is just to illustrate that the practical advice from some people often has to go through our cognitive babelfish to make sense.

If you are asking advice from the street preacher with the puppet who has a sign hanging from his shoulders that says "The End Cometh Nigh" - you can expect apocalyptic advice regarding puppets. Know your source ;-)
Well said. "Know your source."

I agree, when listening to advice I always try to bear in mind where the person is coming from and how I can adapt it to my situation. If it is useful, I will use it, if not, I will discard it. Listening to the suggestions of others may just give me an insight which I missed or had not considered before.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
Yeah, if people start giving me advice I usually just nod and say "Thanks" whether it was helpful or not. They go away thinking they have helped and you're no worse off than you were before.

Sometimes just telling people your problems helps you find your own solutions even if their advice isn't useful. But you never know, sometimes you get a gem that really helps you! I've had loads of times where I've got caught up in a logistical problem, where I have to try to organise my day around x,y and z happening and I'm tying myself up in knots trying to figure it out, and someone else will just say "Why don't you just do x the next day instead?" and it's so simple but I was so busy trying to figure out the complex plan I missed the obvious simple answer. that happens to me a lot!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
I hate when someone uses my problem as an opportunity to preach about their newest life-changing fad. For instance, they might have just read a book that "changed the way they see EVERYTHING." Although you politely tell them that the book has nothing to do with your problem, they keep chattering away. It's no longer about helping you, but prattling on about something that excites them, and your problem becomes an excuse to hold you as a captive audience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I hate when someone uses my problem as an opportunity to preach about their newest life-changing fad. For instance, they might have just read a book that "changed the way they see EVERYTHING." Although you politely tell them that the book has nothing to do with your problem, they keep chattering away. It's no longer about helping you, but prattling on about something that excites them, and your problem becomes an excuse to hold you as a captive audience.
Yes I have experienced that before and it can be quite irritating. I remember this guy went on and on about his new found religion/philosophy for 45 mins and my eyes literally glazed over. I suppose once in awhile is fine. :tongue:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
@ Vizier: Yes, you're right, once in a while is fine. I think sometimes people just need someone to talk to. They want to feel connected to humanity for a moment, to feel like someone gives a damn. I try to keep this in mind, but then there are those people who begin to seek you out and exploit your kindness. They make me wish I could become invisible. :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
@ Vizier: Yes, you're right, once in a while is fine. I think sometimes people just need someone to talk to. They want to feel connected to humanity for a moment, to feel like someone gives a damn. I try to keep this in mind, but then there are those people who begin to seek you out and exploit your kindness. They make me wish I could become invisible. :confused:
Yeah I know these type of people too. I guess it boils down to my mood, if I have the energy to spare then I will entertain them. If not I would look for the nearest exit/excuse and disappear. Since we can't turn invisible yet, although I did read recently about some invisible cloaking device, we just have to make sure we are good at running away when the time calls for it haha! :crazy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,325 Posts
I think it depends on how it's done. Personally speaking, I have gone through things where I want advice on... and people will share their story, thus sharing their advice. I personally find it useful, especially if I'm going through something where I can't see how it's going to 'end'. If I can't see how it's going to end, I'd rather hear about somebody's experience and use that as a way to position myself in my own life and see where the solution is.

So yeah, when people tell me about how they solved their issues... it usually helps me in some way and so I don't mind at all. I love it when people share their similar problems and how they solved it. It helps me see a clearer picture of how things are, especially if I'm really foggy on the present.

Edit: But honestly, if I had a problem that I 'truly wanted to address' <-- and I mean like a GENUINE desperate situation where I wanted to fix whatever I was having a problem with, I will gladly sit and listen to people's advice even if it's 'off the mark' so to speak. I'll take what I can, or try and find someway to relate it to what I'm going through. If it's one of those "i need to vent, no advice necessary" <-- unless I've made it clear to others, I'm seriously not going to gripe about it. Even if it's off the mark, I feel a bit responsible for the outcome of something if I haven't made it explicitly clear that's the way things are.

My older sibling is an ISTJ, and whenever I come to him with a "need to vent" he'll automatically try and point out a solution. Over the years I've just learned to put a disclaimer and say "I am SO frustrated right now, I need to vent." My ex was a xNTJ too, and he was the same way. I've just learned to be extremely honest and blunt about what I want/am doing. So yeah, it helps to be honest with what you want. I think if at that point, people are still not listening... you need a new friend LOL

Edit: In addition to the above. One of my biggest petpeeve is someone who constantly complains but does nothing to solve a problem, or someone who 'fakes wanting advice' just to talk. I would really rather have somebody be honest upfront before engaging (or pretending to engage) in a discussion about solving something. I remember in highschool when the teacher would assign us extra work and there was this ONE GUY who wouldn't stop complaining... the worst part was, the entire class just groaned and sucked it up and did their work, but we all had to deal with this guy complaining and it wasn't doing anything productive at all. I hated that.

LOL ONE last thing. I believe many people are on this forum for DIFFERENT reasons. Some might be on here SOLELY because they need to 'vent' without ever really wanting to change. I see that on this forum... ALOT.

I'm here to connect with other INFJs and to discuss things, learn, and make some friends. I'm here to give and take. So, I suppose it all comes down to what your motivations are; everybody's putting in time to help someone, so I think it's fair to at least be gracious for their time even if they didn't help you the way you wanted them to. I'm not talking about those 'one word' responses. I'm talking about posters who put in multiple paragraphs... atleast be gracious for the time they put in, and if it's not exactly on the mark... respond to the post and input some questions that will redirect the conversation to something more useful.

I just have a feeling if somebody posted a long 'I need to vent' post, and nobody responded... and it quickly went down on the forum, they would still complain about not being heard. It's like C'MOOOON -__-;
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Vizier

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
Yeah I know these type of people too. I guess it boils down to my mood, if I have the energy to spare then I will entertain them. If not I would look for the nearest exit/excuse and disappear. Since we can't turn invisible yet, although I did read recently about some invisible cloaking device, we just have to make sure we are good at running away when the time calls for it haha! :crazy:
I totally want one of those cloaking devices now. How cool!! Am I the only INFJ who has ever wanted to be invisible? To me, that's always been the best super power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,694 Posts
INFJ's are rather passive from what I've noticed. Maybe you just aren't communicating what you think you are. It's not logical to assume that it's ALWAYS the other persons fault. Also, why do you depend on others to fix your problems? Just askin!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I think it depends on how it's done. Personally speaking, I have gone through things where I want advice on... and people will share their story, thus sharing their advice. I personally find it useful, especially if I'm going through something where I can't see how it's going to 'end'. If I can't see how it's going to end, I'd rather hear about somebody's experience and use that as a way to position myself in my own life and see where the solution is.

So yeah, when people tell me about how they solved their issues... it usually helps me in some way and so I don't mind at all. I love it when people share their similar problems and how they solved it. It helps me see a clearer picture of how things are, especially if I'm really foggy on the present.
Yes I enjoy listening to advice and seeing if anyone has new insights which I can use to tackle my problems.

Edit: But honestly, if I had a problem that I 'truly wanted to address' <-- and I mean like a GENUINE desperate situation where I wanted to fix whatever I was having a problem with, I will gladly sit and listen to people's advice even if it's 'off the mark' so to speak. I'll take what I can, or try and find someway to relate it to what I'm going through. If it's one of those "i need to vent, no advice necessary" <-- unless I've made it clear to others, I'm seriously not going to gripe about it. Even if it's off the mark, I feel a bit responsible for the outcome of something if I haven't made it explicitly clear that's the way things are.

My older sibling is an ISTJ, and whenever I come to him with a "need to vent" he'll automatically try and point out a solution. Over the years I've just learned to put a disclaimer and say "I am SO frustrated right now, I need to vent." My ex was a xNTJ too, and he was the same way. I've just learned to be extremely honest and blunt about what I want/am doing. So yeah, it helps to be honest with what you want. I think if at that point, people are still not listening... you need a new friend LOL
That's a pretty responsible attitude to take. It's so much easier to point fingers at others for causing problems than to take a deep hard look at our own responses and actions and how it has contributed to the situation. I really love the effort you make by adding the disclaimer so that people are absolutely clear about what you want and need. It doesn't leave things to chance and there is less room for miscommunication.

I'm here to connect with other INFJs and to discuss things, learn, and make some friends. I'm here to give and take. So, I suppose it all comes down to what your motivations are; everybody's putting in time to help someone, so I think it's fair to at least be gracious for their time even if they didn't help you the way you wanted them to. I'm not talking about those 'one word' responses. I'm talking about posters who put in multiple paragraphs... atleast be gracious for the time they put in, and if it's not exactly on the mark... respond to the post and input some questions that will redirect the conversation to something more useful.
Hehe...I assure you I'm not responding to your post solely because of this. Like you, I too want to learn and help. Your frank and candid opinions might be just the advice I need to keep me in line and shake me up a bit. :crazy:

Your candor reminds me of a story. There was once a Chinese warlord called Cao Cao in the 3 kingdoms. He was extremely crafty and versed in the arts of war. But he made it a point to surround himself with the wisest men he could find. Before he went to war, he would consult with these strategists to assess the feasibility of his plans. There were a fair number of bootlickers who would praise him to the skies and say what they thought he wanted to hear. However there were also a few who gave him honest and frank advice which may not have been what he wanted to hear.

During his invasion of the south, some of his strategists advised him against it as they felt the conditions were not favourable for victory. Trusting in his own strength, Cao Cao paid them no heed and invaded the south only to meet with a massive defeat; losing most of his army in the process. When he returned to his capital, he called forth these strategists who had advised him against the expedition and rewarded them richly. Haha, if I were Cao Cao, I would definitely want to hear your advice although I might have to brace myself for it first. :tongue:
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top