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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As INTPs we can be very gifted in a great number of things, but at the same time struggle with "normal" activities that most people find natural, such as social interactions and following the basic "rules" in the external world. Sometimes we chose to ignore these things if they aren't important to us, but I'm sure everyone here has at some point wanted to learn one of these behaviors that comes so unnaturally to us.

So here are the tools we do have: rational thought and intuition. Using this, I often find that I can unconventionally interpret the rules and expectations around me if necessary and learn to play along with other people. These are the tools that come most naturally to us, so instead of trying to be different, why not use them to our advantage?

For example, I am teaching myself how to paint. I know many Sensors and Feelers who seem to be able to "paint what they feel" or whatever "comes to them" and miraculously find the right color, the right shapes, the right composition to portray what they feel. This is not the case for me. If I try to paint what I feel, it comes out as a huge blocky muddy pile of inconsistent shapes. So I tried another approach. I find other successful pieces of artwork and take them apart. I analyze the various elements that make it a success and see how I can implement these in my own art. It works like a charm. Suddenly I see my paintings come to life in a way that I never would have discovered by chance, or by trying to act like someone else. I use what is given to me.

What are some unconventional ways in which you deal with the things less natural to an INTP? How do you use your Ti and Ne to manipulate things that would normally require S or F functions?
 

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I've always been one to sit back and watch, observing people, things, interactions, whatever it may be. I found when trying to play music I would watch so much it would hinder me in a way, I was too busy watching my hands to notice or pay attention to all the other aspects of the instrument. Blindfolding myself or keeping my eyes shut helped to get around that and bring in other senses into the equation. I don't do art much anymore but when I did it was just a matter of seeing work by other people and experimenting, nothing special. I have a pretty good imagination so I could just imagine what I wanted it to look like and the different options I had, then it was just a matter of getting my hands to replicate it. The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to realize the potential is there I just need to stop second guessing myself and have faith in my abilities (which it seems is fairly common among the INTP crowd).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I've always been one to sit back and watch, observing people, things, interactions, whatever it may be. I found when trying to play music I would watch so much it would hinder me in a way, I was too busy watching my hands to notice or pay attention to all the other aspects of the instrument. Blindfolding myself or keeping my eyes shut helped to get around that and bring in other senses into the equation. I don't do art much anymore but when I did it was just a matter of seeing work by other people and experimenting, nothing special. I have a pretty good imagination so I could just imagine what I wanted it to look like and the different options I had, then it was just a matter of getting my hands to replicate it. The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to realize the potential is there I just need to stop second guessing myself and have faith in my abilities (which it seems is fairly common among the INTP crowd).
I feel that way about a lot of things. I tend to watch youtube videos or tutorials with other people painting for hours, but I can't seem to pick up the tools and do it myself. But that also has to do with having an incredibly low self esteem.
 

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I feel that way about a lot of things. I tend to watch youtube videos or tutorials with other people painting for hours, but I can't seem to pick up the tools and do it myself. But that also has to do with having an incredibly low self esteem.
Don't let your self-esteem interfere with your vision, art and desire. Who cares about how good or bad you perform? Work hard and passionately; create something unique and beautiful, even if you're the only one that appreciates it. Constantly refine your work and evolve into a better artist and person. You must start though. Fuck failure and future dreams of achieving greatness. Begin.
 

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What are some unconventional ways in which you deal with the things less natural to an INTP? How do you use your Ti and Ne to manipulate things that would normally require S or F functions?
That which I cannot do, I fake. I am a bullshit artisan.
 

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The common example would be socializing, I guess. I watch people interact and file it away for future reference, in case I ever find myself in a similar situation. Also, before I going to any kind of social interaction that I'm not completely familiar with, I run through different scenarios in my mind to "prepare" myself, even if some of the situations I come up with are so far-fetched that I don't know how I thought of them in the first place.

I like to write as well, and sometimes I hear that some people just write whatever comes to their minds and let their emotions flow through their thoughts (although I'm not sure that's the case). Doesn't work for me. I have to think about every single word I write, whether or not it adds to the mood I'm trying to depict, and analyze different phrases or scenarios and see how they come together and give the effect I want. And then I have to go back to it or redo the whole thing before I'm even finished. It's as if I have this jar of ideas/emotions, and instead of dumping them all onto a Word document to see what comes out, I take one at a time and use only a few.

I don't know if I made sense. I kind of sound like some stunted robot who mechanizes everything, but that's not how it feels at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Don't let your self-esteem interfere with your vision, art and desire. Who cares about how good or bad you perform? Work hard and passionately; create something unique and beautiful, even if you're the only one that appreciates it. Constantly refine your work and evolve into a better artist and person. You must start though. Fuck failure and future dreams of achieving greatness. Begin.
Easier said than done. I've already been taught repeatedly throughout my life to hate myself and my work for its comparative value. It's very difficult to replace that.

The common example would be socializing, I guess. I watch people interact and file it away for future reference, in case I ever find myself in a similar situation. Also, before I going to any kind of social interaction that I'm not completely familiar with, I run through different scenarios in my mind to "prepare" myself, even if some of the situations I come up with are so far-fetched that I don't know how I thought of them in the first place.

I like to write as well, and sometimes I hear that some people just write whatever comes to their minds and let their emotions flow through their thoughts (although I'm not sure that's the case). Doesn't work for me. I have to think about every single word I write, whether or not it adds to the mood I'm trying to depict, and analyze different phrases or scenarios and see how they come together and give the effect I want. And then I have to go back to it or redo the whole thing before I'm even finished. It's as if I have this jar of ideas/emotions, and instead of dumping them all onto a Word document to see what comes out, I take one at a time and use only a few.

I don't know if I made sense. I kind of sound like some stunted robot who mechanizes everything, but that's not how it feels at all.
That makes a lot of sense. I know, it's sometimes difficult to talk about doing these things because others might think we're "robots" or somehow separated from the world. But we still feel and sense things just like any other human being. The difference is that we put focus on understanding things, which often means putting your own emotions aside for the moment. Like you said, you still feel emotions and still express them on the page, just with a deeper thought going into it.
 

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I usually go through different ways at time to do math's exercises, and also physic's. But it doesn't come to my mind another example now.
 

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The biggest obstacle for me has always been socializing. I've learned how to do it, simply by observing other people, and how they interact, and then duplicating the social norms and traditions that other's do. I am not comfortable doing this, but I hide my discomfort well, and it's necessary to keep certain things flowing smoothly.

It's much easier for me to do this now that I'm older, I'm almost 26, but when I was younger I had a really hard time with it. For example, I once had a teacher call me 'anti-social' in front of the entire class, which placed me RIGHT in the spotlight as everyone looked right at me and then laughed. It was all I could do to keep from running out of the room to cry. I secretly loathed that teacher for the rest of the year for embarrassing me and drawing so much attention to me.

Whereas now, if that were to happen, I'd immediately spit out a sarcastic remark to sound like a joke, however at the same time, would be an insult they most likely would not comprehend, and in my twisted little mind I'd laugh and be the victor.
 

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I'm actually one of the less conventionally "shy" INTPs I know, but I have my moments of crippling awkwardness, especially when I have to ask people for things I don't feel I really deserve. Oh, and when I have to enter a tight-knit group of people already getting along fine without me and mingle.

BUT...to respond to the OP's post, watching people closely in order to pick up social niceties and norms that don't come naturally to me has actually made me a good actress. Whereas some of my colleagues need to think about how to reproduce a convincing human being, it's become something of a habit for me.
 
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I'm quite ignorant about my cognitive functions, but your comments about art piqued my interest. I don't feel art or photography. I don't attempt to feel it. I just seem to have a strong connection to imagery and experimentation and that's what I run with. It's like playing with ideas. I suspect my Ne allows me to have those ideas, but as I said I haven't really looked into the cognitive functions.

I'm always a little confused by the concept that art must be imbued with emotion. It just doesn't work that way for me at all.
I guess you could say I blissfully ignore certain assumptions about art and emotion and just do it my way instead. Which seems very much like ignoring rules that I don't agree with or relate to.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm actually one of the less conventionally "shy" INTPs I know, but I have my moments of crippling awkwardness, especially when I have to ask people for things I don't feel I really deserve. Oh, and when I have to enter a tight-knit group of people already getting along fine without me and mingle.

BUT...to respond to the OP's post, watching people closely in order to pick up social niceties and norms that don't come naturally to me has actually made me a good actress. Whereas some of my colleagues need to think about how to reproduce a convincing human being, it's become something of a habit for me.
I am also much less shy than most INTPs. I've noticed that most of the less shy introverted thinkers are female, for whatever reason. Personally I never really picked up many social abilities, probably because I was actually discouraged by my mother to socialize. Recently I've been trying to observe other peoples' actions in public more.

I'm quite ignorant about my cognitive functions, but your comments about art piqued my interest. I don't feel art or photography. I don't attempt to feel it. I just seem to have a strong connection to imagery and experimentation and that's what I run with. It's like playing with ideas. I suspect my Ne allows me to have those ideas, but as I said I haven't really looked into the cognitive functions.

I'm always a little confused by the concept that art must be imbued with emotion. It just doesn't work that way for me at all.
I guess you could say I blissfully ignore certain assumptions about art and emotion and just do it my way instead. Which seems very much like ignoring rules that I don't agree with or relate to.
I've done that most of my life, ignoring rules that I don't agree with. In fact it's probably one of the reasons I never made much attempt to learn how to act "normal". It's good that you still have the confidence to use your own methods instead of conforming to the social expectations. :)
 

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I am also much less shy than most INTPs. I've noticed that most of the less shy introverted thinkers are female, for whatever reason. Personally I never really picked up many social abilities, probably because I was actually discouraged by my mother to socialize. Recently I've been trying to observe other peoples' actions in public more.
I am not at all shy. I would actually consider myself an attention whore. I sort of enjoy being seen as eccentric, so my social awkwardness doesn't bother me as much as it might others. It's really a combination of a weak Fe and a pretty strong Ne. I don't mind the latter, but the former bothers me.
 

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I'm glad to see there are INTPs not drowning in social waters. I definitely suck at social interaction. I find myself able to talk with very few people comfortably, and 99% of the time its because they're in control of the interaction. Its always been one of those things I've never quite understood. My girlfriend tells me I give off this "I'm cool" aura, and that many people are intimidated by me in some way but in an intriguing sense, I'm a mystery and only a select few get the privilege of actually speaking to me. Sure, sounds good and all, but the truth is I just don't know how to interact with people. When I'm in charge of a conversation, it typically lasts about 12 seconds then just gets awkward. Thank god its not the same with sex.
 

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When I'm in charge of a conversation, it typically lasts about 12 seconds then just gets awkward. Thank god its not the same with sex.
So, uh... how long does it take for sex to get awkward? For me, it's about the time I put the robe and wizard hat on...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I use my Ti and Ne to try and express my feelings... does that count? :p
I can't help but smirk a bit at the mental image. x3 I've done that many times and it always comes out incredibly dorky sounding. Like, "Realistically I know that the connection I feel to you is partly caused by hormonal reactions, but I appreciate your intellect and qualities to a degree that I never thought was possible." It sounds so much more romantic in my head...
 

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I would have to say that my biggest problem has always been socializing. I don't have the sense required to pick up on the social cues so the things that have helped me the most with over coming this obstacle have been drama class (acting), observing how others handle social situations, and using the INTP Chameleon Effect.

After my excellent performances in speech class, many have been fooled into thinking I'm this extroverted person. This is both good and bad. It's bad because now all of these shallow people have been attracted to me and they always want to talk about other people in the classroom (usually negatively), and I don't condone this sort of elementary "high school" behavior.

Basically, I just take on the role of a person who I believe would fit the situation.
 

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I can't help but smirk a bit at the mental image. x3 I've done that many times and it always comes out incredibly dorky sounding. Like, "Realistically I know that the connection I feel to you is partly caused by hormonal reactions, but I appreciate your intellect and qualities to a degree that I never thought was possible." It sounds so much more romantic in my head...
This made me laugh. I would perhaps say this sometimes, but I would scare all my friends away.

I use my Ne to figure out when people need emotional confirmation, and then my Ne/Ti to figure out what I should say, and then I check their response with my Ti to make sure I'm doing a good job of meeting their needs.
 
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