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Discussion Starter #1
What problems will my truly underdeveloped Se and Ti give me? I'd like to know...
 

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There are some different models describing how inferior and shadow functions work.

But those theories don't order the functions like you are, so I'm not sure.

Care to elaborate more about your function order?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Fe (dominant) - Ne - Ni (moderate)- Fi - Te - Si - Se - Ti (truly lacking) Look at my signature! :wink:
 

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Your signature is what I have conflict with. Why did you list it that way? How did you come up with it?

I could offer a bunch of theories, perhaps, of what those underdeveloped functions might mean, but my descriptions would be a lot more specific, if I better understood your type, which right now, I don't.

There are others that might give it a shot with what is limited information in my opinion though.

Edit: I might try later on nonetheless.

For example. You are showing to have a strong N and F, but I'm not sure if you are:

Ne Fi
Fi Ne
Ni Fe
Fe Ni

If I go with Fe, sure u are either:
Fe Ni
Or
Ni fe (Myers Briggs INFJ- contradicts what you say is your dominant)

That being said, INFJ is what? Did you match that because of description of because of function order?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Your signature is what I have conflict with. Why did you list it that way? How did you come up with it?

I could offer a bunch of theories, perhaps, of what those underdeveloped functions might mean, but my descriptions would be a lot more specific, if I better understood your type, which right now, I don't.

There are others that might give it a shot with what is limited information in my opinion though.

I might try later on nonetheless.
Okay, now I understand. Thanks for elaborating. Okay, I've taken many a test and they always list it in that order. I know I am Fe dominant because I am keenly aware of emotions of the people around me. I consider others' emotions in lots of my decision making. I'm good at taking the "emotional temperature" of any given place.
Then I am Ne dominant because I see abstract patterns in things and link things together in ways that not a lot of people see at first. I am future oriented.
Then Ni because I can see from different points of view and spend a lot of time day dreaming.
As I understand it, I have an alright Fi because I have a relatively strong sense of inner ideals and in touch with my own emotions.
My Te isn't so great because it deals with "impersonal hierarchies." I do have logical analysis abilities, I just don't use it to my advantage. Like Alice in Wonderland, "I give myself very good advice, but I rarely often follow it."
My Si is bad because I have a difficult time recalling facts. Plus the whole "concrete" thing that any type of S deals with, I'm bad at.
My Se is terrible because I'm not so aware of my physical environment. I'm a bit of a Klutz and I can walk past things several times a day without realizing there was a dramatic change that I should've realized.
I don't know much about Ti, so I can't tell you anything about it with me...
Let me know if that makes sense and if there's anything I have wrong.
 

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Who's judgment do you trust more? Or, which will you rely on given only an instant to react.
Fi-------------------------Fe
Self-----------------------World/Group Consensus

Its a bit hard to look at you less than dominant functions for indicators of type.

It actually sounds like Fi Ne to me. Have you checked the INFP descriptions?
 

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Issues can arise from having inferior Se are described here: The Form of the Inferior - INJs. Issues with having really little Ti would be overly idealizing other people, not applying critical thinking to situations and relationships in your life, forgetting about your own "I" and always striving to please others while not taking care of your own needs. Unbalanced use of tertiary Ti - being overly critical of people, seeing world like some kind of grim machine where nobody cares and everything is impersonal, feeling that people in your life truly do not love you, suddenly becoming very angry and doorslaming people.

A healthy INFJ is supposed to fall on use of Ni and Fe the most though, so don't try to forcibly strengthen your weaker functions because that's not where you'll be at your best. It has been noted in several accounts that I've read that people who act out of their less developed function tend to appear more unbalanced and unhealthy and less charismatic, because they aren't drawing from their natural strengths. This is not to say that you should completely disregard the development of these functions, but just don't get overly focused on them. Best way to develop your tertiary and inferior is to hang out with people who have good use of them naturally i.e. people who have your tertiary or inferior as their dominant or auxiliary.
 

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It might be easier to understand type development if you understand one fundamental concept: no matter what, the dominant function must remain dominant. You can almost think of it as the "king" inside your head. There are two ways this can happen: 1) The dominant function becomes too tyranical, causing other functions to revolt, or 2) the dominant function is too weak, allowing the other functions to walk all over it.

So, here's what you need to understand:

1. You really can't develop the inferior function. A Jungian analyst once compared it with a UFO: the minute you recognize it, it's gone. However, the inferior function is the gateway to the unconscious. Usually when something is going wrong, it's the inferior function that's acting up the most.

2. The bigger problem with the tertiary function is more commonly one of overdevelopment. It has a tendency to be the dominant function's hired henchman, leading to the dominant function becoming tyrannical.

Aside from that, I agree with @vel. The tertiary and inferior functions have an important place, but trying to develop them puts you in the "weak king" scenario rather than the "tyrannical king" scenario.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A healthy INFJ is supposed to fall on use of Ni and Fe the most though
So is it a bad thing that I rely on my Ne rather than Ni?
 

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So is it a bad thing that I rely on my Ne rather than Ni?
You can't use both Ni and Ne according to the mbti theory. If you are an INFJ then your function order would look like this:
Ni Fe Ti Se

You would take in new data with Se, and process it with Ni (Contra taking new data in with Ne and processing it with Si).

"Then I am Ne dominant because I see abstract patterns in things and link things together in ways that not a lot of people see at first. I am future oriented." This is very much Ni, you are probably confusing the two functions with each other.

This article explain it in more detail.
 

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If you find your Se and Ti lacking, and your Te > Ti, and are able to rely on Ne, you should perhaps consider INFP. Se and Ti are the hardest function to use for INFP (For INFP Ni is easy to use but just sporadically, and INFP are able to understand whats Fe but using it send them in a discomfort state)

Taking account on what Ive just said, I cant explain your high Fe, perhaps you can tell more about how you use it ? I had a eavy discussion with a Fe dom (my mother :p) and I can say that contact feeling is REALLY different than inner feeling, I think i can begin to differenciate it easily now.

Another possible test :
1) Do you use your conscious mind to focus and refine your inconscious drive ?
or
2) Do you allow your unconscious to guide your thought and experience ?

1) you are INFP socionic INFj Fi dom, Fi Te judging function
2) you are INFJ socionic INFP Ni dom, Ni Se percieving function

"Then I am Ne dominant because I see abstract patterns in things and link things together in ways that not a lot of people see at first. I am future oriented." This is very much Ni, you are probably confusing the two functions with each other.
Ne look for possibility too, and all introverted introverted function can be past/present/future oriented... Fi dom can for example be future oriented too, but not in the same way than Ni. Fi alone like to have goal, ideal about how things should be, Ni alone is future oriented too but dont seek closure, dont set goals.

I say "alone" cause mix of different function make things different.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If you find your Se and Ti lacking, and your Te > Ti, and are able to rely on Ne, you should perhaps consider INFP. Se and Ti are the hardest function to use for INFP (For INFP Ni is easy to use but just sporadically, and INFP are able to understand whats Fe but using it send them in a discomfort state)

Taking account on what Ive just said, I cant explain your high Fe, perhaps you can tell more about how you use it ? I had a eavy discussion with a Fe dom (my mother :p) and I can say that contact feeling is REALLY different than inner feeling, I think i can begin to differenciate it easily now.

Another possible test :
1) Do you use your conscious mind to focus and refine your inconscious drive ?
or
2) Do you allow your unconscious to guide your thought and experience ?

1) you are INFP socionic INFj Fi dom, Fi Te judging function
2) you are INFJ socionic INFP Ni dom, Ni Se percieving function



Ne look for possibility too, and all introverted introverted function can be past/present/future oriented... Fi dom can for example be future oriented too, but not in the same way than Ni. Fi alone like to have goal, ideal about how things should be, Ni alone is future oriented too but dont seek closure, dont set goals.

I say "alone" cause mix of different function make things different.
About my Fe: I comfort and encourage everyone I can. I am really good at empathizing. I can't think of any specific examples right now, I'll watch out for one though.

I try to do 1 as much as I can on your possible test. But I really don't believe I'm INFP.

As to your Ni comment, I am future oriented and I do plan and set goals. I make goals and plan for fun.

If any of this doesn't make sense, let me know. I'm a bit distracted at the moment.
 

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You look more like INFJ in my opinion...try to look perhaps if u dont misunderstood Ne ? its hard to figure a function that we dont use...
 

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1. You really can't develop the inferior function. A Jungian analyst once compared it with a UFO: the minute you recognize it, it's gone.
What do you mean by "develop"? I think I disagree. There is almost never a time I am completely unaware of my Fe, though to be sure Ti is a much louder voice. And it's always had a fairly major say in my life, at least outwardly. It is even possible, I think, to overdevelop your inferior. Mine certainly isn't, but it plays a stronger role in my psyche than most INTP's. I always saw it as a good thing, but I've noticed my critical thinking faculties are inferior to the average INTP...not weak, just not as strong. It's a trade off I don't mind making, but you're right in that it has its drawbacks. Anyway, I certainly don't think developing the inferior is impossible, nor would I say I've given my Fe too great a boost (it has made me more charismatic in RL, not less, because that's what Fe does...though a lot of that is probably due to Ne as well I suppose).

EDIT: Obviously, for your own good, the higher functions should come first. But to say it's impossible to develop the inferior function is not only wrong but possibly playing in to people's tendency to ignore them, which usually doesn't turn out too well. I don't regret a moment I spent developing my Fe.
 

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Then I am Ne dominant because I see abstract patterns in things and link things together in ways that not a lot of people see at first. I am future oriented.
Then Ni because I can see from different points of view and spend a lot of time day dreaming.
Sounds like you have Ni / Ne reversed. You may be Ni dominant
 

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What do you mean by "develop"? I think I disagree. There is almost never a time I am completely unaware of my Fe, though to be sure Ti is a much louder voice. And it's always had a fairly major say in my life, at least outwardly. It is even possible, I think, to overdevelop your inferior. Mine certainly isn't, but it plays a stronger role in my psyche than most INTP's. I always saw it as a good thing, but I've noticed my critical thinking faculties are inferior to the average INTP...not weak, just not as strong. It's a trade off I don't mind making, but you're right in that it has its drawbacks. Anyway, I certainly don't think developing the inferior is impossible, nor would I say I've given my Fe too great a boost (it has made me more charismatic in RL, not less, because that's what Fe does...though a lot of that is probably due to Ne as well I suppose).

EDIT: Obviously, for your own good, the higher functions should come first. But to say it's impossible to develop the inferior function is not only wrong but possibly playing in to people's tendency to ignore them, which usually doesn't turn out too well. I don't regret a moment I spent developing my Fe.
When I talk about "developing" a function, I mean giving the ego conscious access to it. You can't just use the inferior function like you do any other function. Rather, you have to compromise with it. You give it something it wants, and it gives you something it wants... But in its own way on its own terms.

As Jung would have said, you don't pull the fourth function up to the ego. You bring the ego down to the fourth function.
 

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When I talk about "developing" a function, I mean giving the ego conscious access to it. You can't just use the inferior function like you do any other function. Rather, you have to compromise with it. You give it something it wants, and it gives you something it wants... But in its own way on its own terms.

As Jung would have said, you don't pull the fourth function up to the ego. You bring the ego down to the fourth function.
I don't know about this. When I think of the unconscious, I think of (for me) Te, Ni, Se, and Fi, of which I have no awareness at all. At best I observe their effects in my life indirectly or through my interactions with others. I have constant awareness and access to Fe, it's just weaker than the other three functions.

What is true is that the dominant and the inferior have a suppressive relationship. The auxiliary and the tertiary do as well, but obviously since the dominant is the ruler of the psyche and not the auxiliary it is not thrown far off balance when there is a lot of the tertiary being used (unless it surpasses the auxiliary in prominence, resulting in the "dom-tert loop"). However, just because they have a suppressive relationship doesn't mean you can't develop the inferior at all. The dominant just needs to give it some leeway, not give up its place as the conductor of the psyche.

How does it work for you? Are you actually not usually conscious of your Si?
 

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I don't know about this. When I think of the unconscious, I think of (for me) Te, Ni, Se, and Fi, of which I have no awareness at all. At best I observe their effects in my life indirectly or through my interactions with others. I have constant awareness and access to Fe, it's just weaker than the other three functions.

What is true is that the dominant and the inferior have a suppressive relationship. The auxiliary and the tertiary do as well, but obviously since the dominant is the ruler of the psyche and not the auxiliary it is not thrown far off balance when there is a lot of the tertiary being used (unless it surpasses the auxiliary in prominence, resulting in the "dom-tert loop"). However, just because they have a suppressive relationship doesn't mean you can't develop the inferior at all. The dominant just needs to give it some leeway, not give up its place as the conductor of the psyche.

How does it work for you? Are you actually not usually conscious of your Si?
The inferior function is the gateway to the unconscious. And I wouldn't necessarily label the relationship between the inferior and superior function as "suppressive". In fact, the two functions can be incredibly powerful when they work together. It's just that it can be difficult to get them to do that.

As a silly (albeit easy to understand) example, I many times run into difficulty choosing a place to eat. My Ne side, if left to its own devices, will tell me "Hey! You live in the Mission in San Francisco! Just go out and walk around for a while and you'll find something new!" The end result? I end up walking around for so long that I get tired and end up going to one of my favorite, tried-and-true restaurants nearby. This is what you frequently see happening: the superior function getting tired, and giving way to the inferior function.

However, if I say "Ok, so pizza is my favorite food. Tonight, I'm going to go find a new pizza place," then things seem to work a lot better. In fact, I just did that tonight. I was walking to find a pizza place I haven't been to before. And when I found one, I thought to myself "You know, there's this one burger place in the Castro I've been meaning to try." And the moment I walked by it... something happened inside me. It's like a voice inside me said "You promised me pizza!" Then, my foot started hurting as I walked (less developed forms of Si are known for manifesting as something you "feel" inside your body). So I turned back around and went to the pizza place (which was good btw).

The other thing that I notice is that sometimes I have to distract my inferior function for my other functions to work properly. For instance, if I'm alone with nothing to do, I start to worry if I have all of the details of my life together. However, a little music tends to soothe her to where I can use my other functions.
 

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The inferior function is the gateway to the unconscious. And I wouldn't necessarily label the relationship between the inferior and superior function as "suppressive". In fact, the two functions can be incredibly powerful when they work together. It's just that it can be difficult to get them to do that.
Yeah, but if it's just the gateway to the unconscious it still has conscious access to the ego, doesn't it? (I may just be confused here and still not know what you mean by developed...what I mean is that the inferior can be an active, positive influence in one's life that one can even become proficient at using with practice, although it always remains subordinate).

I'd read somewhere that the relationship was a "suppressive" one, but I don't remember where or if it was a reputable source. I think they can work together well too, but I do think one function needs to give a bit of leeway. When I say suppressive, I'm not saying you can't use both of them at once, just that one becomes less prominent in the psyche when the other increases. This isn't supposed to be a bad thing, though, as long as the dominant is taking up more space - ultimately even the inferior is better off for that because it will get overwhelmed quickly if it is unnaturally forced to take the reins. But the inferior helps give the dominant perspective, ultimately making it more powerful. The same relationship is there with the auxiliary and the tertiary. That's why full integration of the psyche is important: all functions benefit from it, not just the lower ones.

As a silly (albeit easy to understand) example, I many times run into difficulty choosing a place to eat. My Ne side, if left to its own devices, will tell me "Hey! You live in the Mission in San Francisco! Just go out and walk around for a while and you'll find something new!" The end result? I end up walking around for so long that I get tired and end up going to one of my favorite, tried-and-true restaurants nearby. This is what you frequently see happening: the superior function getting tired, and giving way to the inferior function.

However, if I say "Ok, so pizza is my favorite food. Tonight, I'm going to go find a new pizza place," then things seem to work a lot better. In fact, I just did that tonight. I was walking to find a pizza place I haven't been to before. And when I found one, I thought to myself "You know, there's this one burger place in the Castro I've been meaning to try." And the moment I walked by it... something happened inside me. It's like a voice inside me said "You promised me pizza!" Then, my foot started hurting as I walked (less developed forms of Si are known for manifesting as something you "feel" inside your body). So I turned back around and went to the pizza place (which was good btw).
Great example! I can actually relate to this very sort of battle with my Ne and Si (even that exact literal example...except I don't live in San Fransisco). But I can't say my Fe only acts up when it's neglected. When I see a pointless argument beginning to flare up (or a sign one soon might), it leaps in pretty quickly to try and placate the other person and restore harmony. Or when I need to make headway in a social situation, to endear myself to someone when I first meet them or what have you. There are lots of situations when taking on the attitude of the inferior is really essential. In a healthy and developed person, I think, when it needs to be used it will be used.

The other thing that I notice is that sometimes I have to distract my inferior function for my other functions to work properly. For instance, if I'm alone with nothing to do, I start to worry if I have all of the details of my life together. However, a little music tends to soothe her to where I can use my other functions.
Yeah, sometimes we can be hung up on it since it's our weakest conscious point. And that obsession and pointless spinning around is obviously very bad. My point is the inferior is not supposed to be a negative force that needs to be fed from time to time to keep it from ruining the psyche and can be integrated in a positive way as well, not that it doesn't often cause trouble. What I mean is, people generally find me a charming person with good people skills - I have even been told I am good at making "small talk" (I almost laughed because this is something so many introverts and especially INTP's complain about being hopeless at). I'm no socialite or anything, but I can still call on Fe and use it well. A lot of this comes from Ne's keen observation skills and a lot of fakery, but I could never have gained that reputation through Ne alone.

It would really be hard to get anywhere in life if my Fe had remained weak - a day barely goes by when we don't need to deal with people or relationships, after all!
 
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