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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've been having a lot of problems with an ISFJ friend lately. We've known each other for six years now, and things had always been fine until recently. It all began when he went after this girl who was still hung up on her ex. Upon finding out, he came to me for a shoulder to cry on. (I mean, of all people, an INTP? Seriously?) Well, it didn't end well. Towards the end, I was accused to be a lousy friend because I "refused" to take his side.

Since then, we've been arguing 80% of the time. And it could be anything! He doesn't drink and believes that all those who do need to get pissed drunk every single time they drink. I corrected him once by saying not all people are like that. But he claimed all his friends drank till they passed out all the time. So I reminded him that I don't. But he still insisted that everyone did and I didn't know enough people to know that, to which I said, "I know me, and I don't. I also know people who are like me. Besides I think it's stupid to drink till you pass out every time." He got insanely angry. "MY FRIENDS ARE NOT STUPID. HOW DARE YOU JUDGE THEM???"

I know we're very different people, but he won't accept that. He thinks we're the same and that I'm the one who tries and makes myself seem complex and unique. I have tried to tell me that I don't think I'm unique, just different from him. But he sees it as me dismissing his intelligence (?). He even uses my inability to move on from my ex, who I broke up with eight years ago, as his argument. He claims anyone can move on if they just allow themselves to face the pain. "But noooo... you have to just complicate things by suppressing all these emotions". I have explained loads of time that it's hard for me to find someone I can be truly myself, and that particular ex has been the only one so far who could. But what he hears is: "I will never be happy again because my ex is truly the only person who can make me happy. Him and no one else."

My question is: Is he what an unhealthy ISFJ acts like? I have two other ISFJs in my life and we get long extremely well. :mellow:
 

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Cut him off.

save yourself the hassle the two of you will never see eye to eye.
 

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I think part of it is him being unhealthy as an ISFJ, and part of it probably isn't related to type, it's just personal stuff about him. Like with most things, you can have people of all 16 types do just about anything and act in just about any way.

I've been having a lot of problems with an ISFJ friend lately. We've known each other for six years now, and things had always been fine until recently. It all began when he went after this girl who was still hung up on her ex. Upon finding out, he came to me for a shoulder to cry on. (I mean, of all people, an INTP? Seriously?) Well, it didn't end well. Towards the end, I was accused to be a lousy friend because I "refused" to take his side.
I don't know if this is necessarily a sign of him being unhealthy as a person, it's more a situation that's probably affected him very negatively and he's reacted in an unhealthy way.

ISFJ's (and probably people in general) can be really stupid when it comes to people they fall for. In general, ISFJ's need a lot of comfort when they get hurt by something like this, and when they don't get that comfort, they can turn nasty to people. Offering rationality will not really help an ISFJ in this situation...it's something they have to eventually figure out for themselves. Once they do, and realize that you were right, it's probably very hard for them to go back and admit how they were wrong because it makes it feel like their feelings meant nothing and they're afraid of looking stupid.

darksoul said:
Since then, we've been arguing 80% of the time. And it could be anything! He doesn't drink and believes that all those who do need to get pissed drunk every single time they drink. I corrected him once by saying not all people are like that. But he claimed all his friends drank till they passed out all the time. So I reminded him that I don't. But he still insisted that everyone did and I didn't know enough people to know that, to which I said, "I know me, and I don't. I also know people who are like me. Besides I think it's stupid to drink till you pass out every time." He got insanely angry. "MY FRIENDS ARE NOT STUPID. HOW DARE YOU JUDGE THEM???"
This sounds like something I may have done when I was younger. ISFJ's can be stubborn with our mindsets sometimes...I know I like to make a decision on something, have it be final, and use it to understand the world. It's hard to accept a new idea or new information sometimes because it disrupts our understanding of something, and since our dominant Si drives that feeling, we like using our current knowledge to understand something and not have it change.

Basically, with something like this, he's just being stubborn...he probably just doesn't like the idea of something being different than what he already knows. It will probably take him a lot of time (and personal experience) to realize that you're right. It's not a rational thing, but sometimes that's the process it takes for an ISFJ.

darksoul said:
I know we're very different people, but he won't accept that. He thinks we're the same and that I'm the one who tries and makes myself seem complex and unique. I have tried to tell me that I don't think I'm unique, just different from him. But he sees it as me dismissing his intelligence (?). He even uses my inability to move on from my ex, who I broke up with eight years ago, as his argument. He claims anyone can move on if they just allow themselves to face the pain. "But noooo... you have to just complicate things by suppressing all these emotions". I have explained loads of time that it's hard for me to find someone I can be truly myself, and that particular ex has been the only one so far who could. But what he hears is: "I will never be happy again because my ex is truly the only person who can make me happy. Him and no one else."
Again, this is probably like the drinking conversation...he likes the idea of knowing something and having comfort and confidence in that, and it's probably hard for him to accept or admit the idea of him being wrong about it. I would say it's more of a comfort thing than an arrogance thing. But at the same time, it's also a bit of a pride thing to not want to admit to be being wrong.

darksoul said:
My question is: Is he what an unhealthy ISFJ acts like? I have two other ISFJs in my life and we get long extremely well. :mellow:
All in all, I would say he's more of an immature ISFJ rather than an unhealthy one. It just sounds like he has a good bit to learn, and hopefully over time he will.


It can be tough to be a male ISFJ...I know for me, I really like living in my own little personal, unchanging world, just being kind of carefree and nice and kind...but especially being a male, society sometimes puts me in positions where I have to be tougher and smarter or anything else. And it's hard to be yourself and still be taken seriously...so you feel really defensive when you're not taken seriously, but you don't necessarily have the power or will or knowledge to back that up.

I don't think I made much sense in that last paragraph, I was just kind of going off emotion. But anyway, like I said, it sounds like he's just going through a confusing time and has some growing to do.
 

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I agree with Teddy.
 

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ISFJ's (and probably people in general) can be really stupid when it comes to people they fall for. In general, ISFJ's need a lot of comfort when they get hurt by something like this, and when they don't get that comfort, they can turn nasty to people. Offering rationality will not really help an ISFJ in this situation...it's something they have to eventually figure out for themselves. Once they do, and realize that you were right, it's probably very hard for them to go back and admit how they were wrong because it makes it feel like their feelings meant nothing and they're afraid of looking stupid.

This! 100% agree.
 

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I've been having a lot of problems with an ISFJ friend lately. We've known each other for six years now, and things had always been fine until recently. It all began when he went after this girl who was still hung up on her ex. Upon finding out, he came to me for a shoulder to cry on. (I mean, of all people, an INTP? Seriously?) Well, it didn't end well. Towards the end, I was accused to be a lousy friend because I "refused" to take his side.

Since then, we've been arguing 80% of the time. And it could be anything! He doesn't drink and believes that all those who do need to get pissed drunk every single time they drink. I corrected him once by saying not all people are like that. But he claimed all his friends drank till they passed out all the time. So I reminded him that I don't. But he still insisted that everyone did and I didn't know enough people to know that, to which I said, "I know me, and I don't. I also know people who are like me. Besides I think it's stupid to drink till you pass out every time." He got insanely angry. "MY FRIENDS ARE NOT STUPID. HOW DARE YOU JUDGE THEM???"

I know we're very different people, but he won't accept that. He thinks we're the same and that I'm the one who tries and makes myself seem complex and unique. I have tried to tell me that I don't think I'm unique, just different from him. But he sees it as me dismissing his intelligence (?). He even uses my inability to move on from my ex, who I broke up with eight years ago, as his argument. He claims anyone can move on if they just allow themselves to face the pain. "But noooo... you have to just complicate things by suppressing all these emotions". I have explained loads of time that it's hard for me to find someone I can be truly myself, and that particular ex has been the only one so far who could. But what he hears is: "I will never be happy again because my ex is truly the only person who can make me happy. Him and no one else."

My question is: Is he what an unhealthy ISFJ acts like? I have two other ISFJs in my life and we get long extremely well. :mellow:
Does he know his type? How much does he know? Does he know about the functions?

I disagree with the other ENTP. I wouldn't cut someone off just because they are making me slightly uncomfortable.

He may be displaying heavy signs of an unhealthy ISFJ just because the break up. Having to figure out why people act a certain way is very stressful for ISFJ's. And they assume a lot about people because they lack the intuition (as their inferior function) to truly understand how people work.

He is seeking control of his inferior, its very common for people to do this under stress. When I'm stressed I fiddle with random objects, its me trying to control my Si. By him saying "everyone acts this certain way" he is trying to take control of his intuition... however... intuition is the only inferior function that it is just impossible to take control over in a positive way. It ends with a lot of assumptions that can be very wrong. I can play with an object and force it into a different shape, you can't play with why someone does something and force it into something else.

If he doesn't know about his inferior function, or yours for that matter, you might want to explain it. Do this by explaining yours first, very calmly so as he will understand why his feelings make you... not at ease. You're just the wrong person to go to for non-logic based comfort. And then explain his, and how his assumptions about your actions are probably not correct, and try to explain yourself very clearly.
 

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You gotta understand that he wasnt using logic when he went after the girl and as a friend he needed you to be on his side (whether or not you agreed) because otherwise he is without support completely. It sounds like hes questioning you as a friend because you think so differently. It may help to introduce him to the MBTI test and the differences in INTP and ISFJ. I know i started to take things less personally when i realized the difference. Hes taking things personally.
 
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My question is: Is he what an unhealthy ISFJ acts like? I have two other ISFJs in my life and we get long extremely well. :mellow:
I'd say it's more of an ISFJ with a bad perspective. Call it unhealthy if you like, but that phrasing is a bit extreme, I think.

"I corrected him once by saying not all people are like that. But he claimed all his friends drank till they passed out all the time."

To an ISFJ, I would wager it doesn't really matter what other people might be like. Conceptually, they can understand that yes, there are other people out there who drink and don't get pissed. But his friends drink and get pissed, which is really all that matters to him. And he probably thinks you're just trying to be complicated and different than his other friends by you claiming you're different. He doesn't want to hear that you're different, basically, or it doesn't really matter to his present problem, so he ignores it.

ISFJ's who dig themselves a hole to live in have trouble getting out of it and seeing things from anyone else's point of view. Being an INTP, your point of view might be somewhat foreign to him. Really depends whether he relies on his Ti function all that much.

But you said it yourself, this began when you didn't side with him when he was seeking support in his fail relationship. Basically, you violated his trust on some level and he probably hasn't forgiven you for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Whoa! My old thread resurrected. :laughing:

Update: We're actually closer now, thanks to @teddy564339's advice and insights. He actually brought up that relationship in a conversation recently and said he would have done everything differently. He's still single, but for the first time since we've been friends, he wants to resolve his own issues first, which we also talked in length the last time we met up. :happy:
 

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Whoa! My old thread resurrected. :laughing:

Update: We're actually closer now, thanks to @teddy564339 's advice and insights. He actually brought up that relationship in a conversation recently and said he would have done everything differently. He's still single, but for the first time since we've been friends, he wants to resolve his own issues first, which we also talked in length the last time we met up. :happy:
Yay! Glad I was helpful in some way.


To an ISFJ, I would wager it doesn't really matter what other people might be like. Conceptually, they can understand that yes, there are other people out there who drink and don't get pissed. But his friends drink and get pissed, which is really all that matters to him. And he probably thinks you're just trying to be complicated and different than his other friends by you claiming you're different. He doesn't want to hear that you're different, basically, or it doesn't really matter to his present problem, so he ignores it.
I think this is probably right overall. I think a lot of it is a matter of the current priority and focus, since I think sometimes ISFJs have a hard time mixing different situations together.

When I have a problem, it sometimes has a way of draining me emotionally, and all of my emotional attention is focused on it. When I'm like that, it's really difficult to talk about other similar situations in a rational manner, because I'm so stuck on the current one emotionally.

But if I can work through that current one and get past it, then I'm usually in a better mental state and am more likely to consider other perspectives. Or if someone is talking about a completely unrelated issue, I'm usually able to listen to different perspectives on it.


So a lot of it is timing, too. Sometimes I'm in a better state to talk about something and sometimes I'm in a worse state.
 
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