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Discussion Starter #1
How do you deal with unspoken judgment? It is in the air, but it is not being spoken out loud to the point where you can defend yourself. It is subtle.

Obviously, I can't control what others think about me - I can only control myself and my reaction, which admittedly, quite typically, is annoyance and bristling... followed by running away and hiding.

Lately, I have also been utilizing distraction - a lesson I learned in avoiding difficult people (thanks to ya'll) - Example: Someone is saying something that I can see is leading towards a topic where I will feel judged, so I divert the conversation to something random, something Ne. I do this, I think, so I will not feel a disliking towards them and keep them in the liking zone.

I know my own sensitivities, and I want to learn how to coexist better. I generally just choose not to be around judgmental kinds of people, but I do want to grow and stop just avoiding people who annoy me altogether... so, there's that.

Also, what are some tips for not negatively judging others ourselves? Like, you can feel yourself getting annoyed... and getting more and more annoyed... what do you do to stop the loop? I've tried to talk myself into being more compassionate ("everyone has issues!" - "they probably had a bad day!" - "it's not personal!" - "be glad you're not as judgmental as them!" lol), but that does not seem to be effective.
 
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That would depend on who the judger is. Because...

I generally just choose not to be around judgmental kinds of people, but I do want to grow and stop just avoiding people who annoy me altogether.
...while that sounds like a noble goal/intention to have, I think it depends on who you're dealing with and why you/me/we would need to be around that person. Because I don't believe you have to force yourself to put up with people who are constantly judging you (for the sake of the conversation I'm assuming that they do really think negatively of you) when the situation is not going to lead to a positive resolution.
For example, my ex's friends hated me with a passion. In the beginning I wanted to be the bigger person, and so I kept showing up with confidence whenever they were around my then-bf, and I claimed my own space and my own right to be there in the group. Also, Ne told me "maybe they will change their mind about me over time, maybe they just need time" but two years later they still hated me, to the point where they were talking shit behind my back all the time. And I said enough. I didn't have to put up with them, u know, because while I did all that effort to initiate conversations, try to be nice, try to be mature about the whole thing, all I received was more hate. So u know, we don't have to be around such people, no. Nothing good comes from this.
But it's different if we're talking about someone you are forced to be around, like a coworker. Then yes we need a different strategy because we can't avoid them perpetually.
When a coworker is mega annoying and brings you down on a consistent basis, you have to do both, I think: your own mental strength so that they don't affect you too much when you're in their presence + not exposing yourself to them if you feel yucky around them. What happens when you train your mind to not be too affected is that you naturally can tolerate the presence of a judgmental person for longer periods of time, because your mind is not concerned with them, only with yourself. But there are days when your mind is softer and you are more easily affected by the environment -I know I am- and if you need to avoid the person for your own mental health, then do.
What helps me be mentally strong around these kinds of people is focusing on my goal of why I'm in their presence. It could be because I need a favor, so I will weasel my way into their presence, and having my goal in mind perks me up very naturally. This will depend on one's individual morals and ethics though. I personally feel free to use people for favors and feel no guilt. If your goal is to be there for something, like to make money, or to support a third party... like I put up with my ex's friends because I was there to support him, and it had nothing to do with the friends, they could die for all I cared. But my goals, my focus, kept me there with confidence. Until I didn't have a reason to be in the situation anymore. It's just something personal and you decide your focus and your goal at each moment.

Also, what are some tips for not negatively judging others ourselves? Like, you can feel yourself getting annoyed... and getting more and more annoyed... what do you do to stop the loop?
One of the things I do all the time is make a blessings list in my head. I list all the reasons why this person is a blessing in my life, and this can be soooo difficult, but the more I've done it over the years, the easier it is for me to do. For example I used to have an evil coworker, she was truly the embodiment of evil. Everyone hated her. I could be in her presence and feel relatively chill (relatively) because I kept a blessings list running through my head at all times. One reason she was a blessing to my life was because she was so evil and everyone hated her so much, that whenever she and I switched shifts and I took control of her office space, nobody ever dared come talk to me, because they assumed that I would be mean just like she was, they correlated the office space with "evil women work here, don't talk to them". So I worked alone, never bothered by anyone, and I had so much freedom because she scared everyone away.
Another reason she was a blessing was because she was so obsessive with organization, that she would do my own paperwork without asking me. She would say "You are so dumb I decided to do your paperwork just in case you fuck it up, I wouldn't be surprised if you fucked it up, you are useless". You think this upset me? No! It was the opposite xD I thought "Yaaaay she did my paperwork, I don't have to do it". Literally she did my paperwork for 3 months straight. I laughed inside because she was taking work off my plate. I didn't focus on the insults, I focused on what I was getting out of the situation, which was less work.
Another blessings list I must keep running at all times is the one for my dad. We don't get along at all, he's insufferable. There is nothing nice I can say about his personality. So I think he's a blessing because he buys me bread, he buys me milk, he calls the bank for me, if he wasn't in my life I would have to deal with the bank myself, and so on. I list his acts of service, because I can't list anything about his personality lol xD
So in a nutshell what I do is see how they benefit my own life. I go the self-absorbed route. I'm always thinking "okay what do I get from this" and there's always something that you get from it, even if they are tiny things.
Hey sometimes you can't help it. I have times when I am so annoyed by this people that if they even say Hello to me I just bark at them with blood in my eyeballs. Then I realise "okay calm down, barking is not beneficial to anybody" and I go through my mental lists.

Ultimately, if someone is constantly judging you and you know it, and you have to coexist with this person, and you guys don't have the kind of relationship where you can confront them, you have to think in your mind the famous phrase "Hate is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die". The feeling of judgment is similar to that constraining feeling of hate. And if they want to go through the day feeling like that, let them poison themselves. Keep your mind clean. If the person who is being judged engages in worry or something like that, they are drinking poison too and expecting the hater to die. This is an insane game that goes nowhere good. So choose to keep your mind fresh and clean and let others deal with their own choices.
 
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Without being specific, I ignore it. Or get them to spill it by doing/saying what they are judging me about, so I can tell them out loud that I’m going to do my own thing whether they like it or not.

The people who annoy me generally are in my personal space / try to engage me when I’m clearly not interested. We don’t have to be together often so I just suck it up and be coolly polite. Anything more tends to get people coming back for more and I don’t want to interact longer than necessary. I don’t have any mantras or mental acrobatic tricks to combat judging though, as I rarely voice them and forget them soon after.
 
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I think I have a bigger problem judging other people. I do sometimes feel judged by people but I think that is because I have a natural tendency to judge others and I assume other people are doing the same.

I can relate to your question about judging others and getting into that loop. I am a happier person when I am not so judgy towards others. I noticed that for me, I can really get into the loop of judging others and I am not able to be happy with them when I am like this. I have been working on noticing when I have a judging thought and when I am starting to loop. At first, when I notice this, I will call myself out on this just by noticing that that is a judgmental thought and I ask myself if it is any of my business and most of the time it really isn't so I let it go and move on with my day. This has also led me to be less judgmental and self critical in my own head as well. This also lets me question others and not just take every little thing that is said to me as judgement.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@entheos ... why ... how.. so smart? I am literally taken in by what you wrote. It is so full of actual wisdom, it stuns me. Thank you so much (again). I am going to have to print this one out and re-read it since it is what I am currently learning to walk-through.

I think I was referring to people who I think I should "give a chance to" (friends) instead of just people who are truly bad for me. I think my walls are thicker than they used to be, and I let less and less people in these days. (I probably haven't had what I consider a "real" friendship in over 10 years - except ISTP - though I do not necessarily see that as negative) I am learning how much is safe for me to share, and what is hindering building actual relationships with people. It is all kind of muddled for me right now, but I know that judgment specifically (essentially hatred, like you pointed out) is a barrier (or a constraint, as you aptly said).

You know how you shared you can just sense things in people (N), and you just know? - well, when I see all of this stuff (that others may not see) - particularly judgment (which I am sensitive to), but other things too - my initial thought is to freak out - escape, run, don't bother with that person. Coworkers and damaging people are one thing, but I think I mean more people I consider friends or could-be friends. I think for most people in my life escape-clamming up-hiding IS the right move for me (because of well, how I am), but I am thinking it should not be that way with everyone.

I guess I am in the throes of learning how to be a loyalist - a real true friend - without oversharing myself, being judgmental myself, or fearing what I see in another imperfect person. What you said about blessings is definitely true for me, and why I think I am coming to this place. I can see how a friend is a blessing to me, although imperfect in other ways.

Oh! And, here's another thing I was thinking - (and, maybe you've already answered this - sorry!) - how do you deal with being so smart? With knowing so much others do not know? How do you keep yourself humble?
 

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I think I was referring to people who I think I should "give a chance to" (friends) instead of just people who are truly bad for me. I think my walls are thicker than they used to be, and I let less and less people in these days. (I probably haven't had what I consider a "real" friendship in over 10 years - except ISTP - though I do not necessarily see that as negative) I am learning how much is safe for me to share, and what is hindering building actual relationships with people. It is all kind of muddled for me right now, but I know that judgment specifically (essentially hatred, like you pointed out) is a barrier (or a constraint, as you aptly said).
Woah I know exactly what you're talking about.
Well you said it yourself, you're "learning" and "it is all kind of muddled for me right now". I think you'll get it. You just need to invest time, thought, energy, and trial and error to this area of your life, and that's what you're doing already as far as I know.
And I think that trial and error is absolutely necessary. Sometimes you'll overshare and regret, and sometimes you will be too silent and you'll regret it too, because you know that you are more than a quiet being. But you'll find what works for you.

Yeah I have a similar problem with friendships. Although I've already figured out how much sharing is good for me and stuff, friendships carry obligations and duties. For me, a friendship is when you know you can call someone on the phone at 1am when you're sobbing or having a huge problem, and it's when you feel receptive if your friend calls at 1am with a crisis. It's a reciprocal “I’m here for you”, and whenever I meet someone new I think long and hard about whether I want to be that person for them or not.
So far, the feeling of "Yes, I feel at peace if you call me at 4am with a crisis, I will help you and give you all I can" has only happened twice in like... 5-6 years. And those people aren't my friends anymore, so...
I would say about the judgment thing that at least ime if you're judging your friend all the time and you can't help it, this could be an indication that you have opposite core values, and you can't actually be friends. I think that friends need to share the same values and morals. I tried really really hard to stay friends with people who had opposite values than me, and I adored them, but I was coooonstantly judging them because they were constantly doing things in their lifestyle that I could not just gloss over and accept. They were in direct opposition to my belief system, and so I broke off the friendships. I told them I loved them with my heart but I couldn't be a witness to their degenerate life. We have to take care of our mental health, and we can't surround ourselves with people whose lifestyle is an abomination to us. There is a famous saying that says we are the sum of the 5 people we spend most time with. So I just blow my friend a kiss in the distance and send them on their merry way.

Now, when it's not a matter of values, and it's just normal judging, then we have to understand that every person is on their own path. And if they're going to fuck up something, I think "This is good for them. They will learn something from this. This is good for them". And detach and let them crash.

You know how you shared you can just sense things in people (N), and you just know? - well, when I see all of this stuff (that others may not see) - particularly judgment (which I am sensitive to), but other things too - my initial thought is to freak out - escape, run, don't bother with that person. Coworkers and damaging people are one thing, but I think I mean more people I consider friends or could-be friends. I think for most people in my life escape-clamming up-hiding IS the right move for me (because of well, how I am), but I am thinking it should not be that way with everyone.
I know yep (at least I think I know xD). This kind of situation has a few layers and possibilities. I am choosing to assume that you know what you're talking about, and that the judgment you are sensing is real, and not a projection, which is what @Nesta described perfectly:

I do sometimes feel judged by people but I think that is because I have a natural tendency to judge others and I assume other people are doing the same.
I don't think you have to subject yourself to friends who judge you (real, not projection) constantly, even if in silence. Because where is the constructive criticism in that? If I had a friend, I would like them to tell me with words what they are thinking, not do covert things with body language or vibes. I’d rather have a nice conversation where they tell me what they want from me. Like my ex’s friends could’ve told me “hey we’d appreciate it if you didn’t hang out with us anymore, because we prefer the group to be closed” That makes sense to me, and I would have the clarity of where we stand with each other. But covert behavior is unproductive and damaging to people.
So with all this, you would need to embody whatever it is that you desire from people. Since I desire clarity and straightforwardness, I am clear and straightforward myself with others. I can’t ask from people what I am not willing to give them, and certainly I can’t ask from them what I won’t give myself. I give myself clarity by being clear with others, if u know what I mean. So if you want people to communicate more, for example, you will have to communicate more as well. Etc.

I guess I am in the throes of learning how to be a loyalist - a real true friend - without oversharing myself, being judgmental myself, or fearing what I see in another imperfect person. What you said about blessings is definitely true for me, and why I think I am coming to this place. I can see how a friend is a blessing to me, although imperfect in other ways.
That’s the thing right there, the imperfections. Sometimes friends make you pull your hair and scream. I always go back to core values. As long as we have the same values, and as long as I am in a good emotional place where I can be their “healer” if they become emotionally distressed, then the friendship is worthwhile. The big problems come when I try to accept a friend “for who they are” but their lifestyle is pure degeneracy to me. I simply can’t have that in my life, it’s something toxic. You can’t be allergic to bananas and force yourself to eat bananas thinking “but they’re fruits, scientists say they have vitamins and fiber, they’re good for you…” This is a rationalization of something that doesn’t need to be rationalized. If you’re allergic, you can try all you want to believe you’re not, but the reality will remain that you are, and you’ll get sick. That has been my experience. Doesn’t mean that they’re a bad person, on the contrary, I adoooored those people, but I just wanted something else for my life, something clear and healthy and inspiring. Those people didn’t inspire me at all, it was the opposite.

Oh! And, here's another thing I was thinking - (and, maybe you've already answered this - sorry!) - how do you deal with being so smart? With knowing so much others do not know? How do you keep yourself humble?
Lol I don’t think I’m smart, I’m mediocre. Just sharing my life experiences in case somebody else can benefit from an idea or a concept. Or some people benefit just by talking it out, and after they have typed their stuff they have a self-realization, you never know what can happen thanks to a conversation : )
 
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Discussion Starter #7
@entheos - Yes, I benefit greatly! Very good stuff. I am still processing.

I like what you said about everyone being on their own path. That is a good reminder.

I also like the word you used here... covert. Because that is how I think I am a lot of the time, so it makes sense that I think others are being that way too (actually, I can remember several times pawing at the surface to find out what someone really means, to realize there was nothing else there - haha). I am thinking specifically of an introverted friend that I have who has similar issues to me in some ways. Both of us are pretty private, and you never know what is really going on in there. And, actually, sometimes I think it is better not to know. This is when I recall the value I find in more superficial (yet healthy) relationships. Giving me the space to work out my own stuff and not getting in too deep into other people's problems.

I do want to embody a safeness and an openness to others in whatever way I am supposed to do that. I will trial and error this!
 
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I have less of a problem with being judged by others because I consider their judgment to be their business, plus it's only an opinion, which may, or may not be an accurate evaluation of me. Although I don't externalise my judgments (other than to take action in what I hope would be a carefully considered way) I can easily feel uncomfortable that I am being so judgmental in my mind. Then I think the only solution is to realise that everyone just needs the space to be themselves because ultimately their decisions and actions are determined by their own unique brain wiring, and to be understanding of my own wiring which causes me to be internally (sometimes incredibly) judgmental.
 
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