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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alrighty, this is a wall of text, I apologize. For some context, Im a female ENTP (not that there's any correlation, but it may help understand my thinking to a better degree). Im at a point of self-discovery and growth in my life, and Im trying to better understand myself through the enneagram. I've known about the system for years now, and for a while was pretty sure I was a Five. Im not ruling out that possibility, but I seem a lot more outgoing and less of a meticulous planner than most description would have me be. Also, and ideas you could give me for Tritype and subtypes would be nice, as Im pretty sketchy on those concepts.

Anywho, lets just bare all my deepest fears on the internet for funsies, eh??

Prerequisites

What age range are you in?
Mid 20s

Any disorders or conditions we should know about?
ADHD (diagnosed at age 5, medicated till 13) Ive also dealt with depression and anxiety, but have never been to a shrink for either.

Main Questions

1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.

Tenacity, as far as I can figure. Or at least thats the force that compels me in all other pursuits. I strive to learn, and to grow and to always be just a little bit better. Im an artist, and I have a customer service career that I really enjoy as well, because I get to observe so many different kinds of people and situations. I try to analyze things deeply and come to more a superficial idea of what the world around me is like. To a lesser degree, I like sharing my ideas with people, but Im not great at communicating my thoughts to people. I want to be accomplished someday, but more to my own standards than to any external expectation. Outside validation isnt really important to me overall, in fact overt praise makes me nervous because I feel like I have to outdo myself, or something weird like that.

2. What were you like as a kid?

I was very outgoing for my younger years but went through a long depression after being diagnosed with ADHD. I felt like I was broken and disliked because I wasnt like the people around me. I was (am?) smart, but not motivated in school (partly because I didnt care to prove that I knew the material, partly because sustained effort was hard for me and I hated writing essays. I always tested within the top five students.) I learned to speak very young (around 6 months) and was always very articulate. I got on better with the adults in my life then with my peers. Despite being extroverted, I didnt have many friends. I was awkward and my brain moves faster than my mouth. I liked reading and playing imaginative games. I never really fit in, but most of the time I didnt care.

3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?

I had a rough childhood in some ways, but there were good parts too. I was mostly raised by my single father and paternal grandmother, both of whom were overall supportive of me. There were many female figures in my life who were abusive to varying degrees. My dads weak spot has always been a strong need for companionship, without much ability to maintain healthy relationships. When I was 11 my dad married a woman in Portland OR and moved us from eastern Canada to be with her. It was a rough transition as she was very manipulative and had a lot of emotional issues. We fought bitterly until I eventually decided it was easier to stay in my room and avoid being with either her or my father for longer then it took to eat dinner. They also got into frequent screaming matching, and my dad coped by taking up a long haul trucking job so he was gone for weeks at a time. They divorced soon after I left home to get married.


4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?

Intelligence, comprehension, competence, honesty are all important to me. I like people who are direct and confident in their abilities without being arrogant or condescending. People who art entitled, or who act like the world owes them something purely because they could bother to exist annoy me. I like people who are quick witted and intelligent but dont mind being silly, or enjoying things simply because they enjoy them.

I want avoid being manipulated, or manipulative. I want to avoid being stupid or ignorant as those are all qualities I loathe in other people. I dont want to lose sight of all the hard work I have put into becoming the kind of person I want to be.

5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?

I had a strong fear of being put on the spot. Im a spontaneous person in the moment, but I used to obsessively think of future (or past) conversations/situations and how I frame them to be better or go more in my favour, a lot the time at the expense of actually being present in the moment when I was experiencing something I didnt have a frame of reference for.
I still struggle with this one. A lot of time I'll avoid going out to do things I want to do because I worry they'll deplete my energy too much, or I wont know what Im doing and Ill make a fool of myself. Im slowing getting over this be learning how to better my energy. Also, allowing myself to be gregarious, and spontaneous and explorative--all things I was berated for when I was younger--I've regained some natural energy that I didnt even know I was missing... Finding an outlet for emotions that I couldnt otherwise process also helped. I used to be consumed by nervous/angry energy and not know what to do with it. Heavy music and art helped me sublimate and process them.


6. a.) How do you see yourself?
I see myself as someone who tries to be better each day. I dont live up to my own standard a lot of the time, and it contributes to low self esteem.
b.) How do you want others to see you?
I want to be seen as competent and in control of myself/ my emotions. I dont necessarily want to be looked up to, but definitely not looked down on or pitied.
c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?
Unearned arrogance, exuberant emotions, especially negative ones. I dislike people who are nothing but negative or who feel like the world owes them something. I also have a really hard time not being intellectually superior and dislike people who choose to be ignorant or stupid.

7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you
c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.

A,B,C

8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?

Everywhere. There are few things I havent thought of to some degree. Even really dark or esoteric things. I enjoy daydreaming and aimlessly thinking, and often space out when I shouldnt.
I work a pretty mentally-unchallenging job (barista, whoo!) which gives me plenty of time to think aimlessly. Its part of why I like the job, I get my interaction with the world in, get to have plenty of interesting conversations, which usually leads to interesting things to think about. I like to find new ways to connect seemingly unrelated subjects or trains of thought.

9.What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?

I feel my best when Im coming up with innovative ways of looking at or doing things. When I can explain my thoughts in a way that makes someone else excited, or that leads to an interesting discussion where all parties learn something is amazing. I like mental sparring matches, although I dont engage in them much because I can sometimes make people think Im angry or belligerent when Im really just enthused.
I feel the worst when Im misunderstood. When I share my deeper thoughts with some one and they think Im complaining, or upset or hate them/my life whatever. When I feel overwhelmed and anxious. When I have panic attacks in public because of too much stimulation or because of high stress I feel pretty pathetic.

10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
a.) anger
I feel angry when Im mocked or made fun of. When people try to put me down or make me feel stupid or incompetent, I can become very angry and usually have to quickly withdraw until I cool down.
b.) shame
Embarassing myself, making a public mistake, or one that puts others in a bad spot, even if its overall very minor. I feel very intense shame when a perceived shortcoming or flaw is brought to my attention, especially if in front of others where I have little opportunity to save face.
c.) anxiety
Either situations that I cant fully account for, or very highly charged situations. Also I feel very anxious in large crowds or on public transport where opportunities to distance myself if I become overwhelmed are limited. I dont like not having an escape route (I.e close to a door or aisle, dont like carpooling in case I need to leave, never go anywhere without a phone, extra cash and a knife on my person, rarely go out without my husband.) Being an anxious extrovert is the worst, brah.

11. Describe how you respond to the following:
a.) stress
Withdraw, observe, analyze, remove unnecessary stimulus until stress reaches a more manageable level.
b.) negative unexpected change
Again observe and analyze. Try to find a way to exploit any postive opportunities that the change provides, while minimizing damage. Im very level headed in a crisis, at least outwardly, because I tend to confine any emotional responses to when I am alone/with extremely trusted companions. (I only know three people Ive cried in front of)
c.) conflict
I dont go out of my way to incite conflict, but I dont shy away either. I like to address the situation calmly and factually, although I sometimes have trouble admitting fault, even if it would resolve things more quickly and not damage my reputation too badly.

12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?
Advisor, Idea person, peddler of alternatives and explanations. Im good at it. I can read between the lines quickly and usually get the point people are driving at, and can reword it to be more clear to various members of the group as needed.
b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?
This is a new scenario for me, so Im still learning and modifying my tendencies. Generally though, I lead by example. I delegate pretty freely, and am usually happy to explain the end result and let people find their own path to it. I keep an eye to help where there is need, especially when things could be done more efficiently (who likes wasting time and energy, right) but mostly I want people under me to feel confident in their own abilities, and in the rest of the team. I step into whatever vacancy there is, and dont mind doing menial tasks (dish pits are great places to philosophize...)


13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
I think I see more who people actually are then whatever perception they want to create. Im good at reading people, which sometimes sucks because I know when people are just being polite, or are lying or what have you. I see peoples insecurities and what they try to hide.

14. Comment on your relationship with trust.
Pretty bad to be honest. There have been two people in my life who havent broken my trust in some way. One was my grandmother and the other is my husband. What I trust is that people will look out for their own interests and needs first. That doesnt make them terrible, but I cant put my self-worth, or my well-being under the control of other people. I tend to be guarded to varying degrees with people, although because Im outgoing it usually doesnt appear so to others. I can talk with just about anyone, and especially debate, but rarely to I share my truest thoughts with people without some fear of judgement or repercussion. Though, the joke with me is that a direct question will get an honest answer.

15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?
Raised and practicing Jehovah's Witness. I dont see any influence that that could have had on my answers here.

Optional Question (due to personal nature)

Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.
Moving thousands of miles from home and family (including half-brother and grandmother) because my Father married a woman he met online. I dont think I responded well, but its only been recently that I realized the scope of what it did to my personality/psyche. I went from being an outgoing, if awkward kid, to being extremely reclusive and neurotic. I was angry for a very long time because of how my step mother treated me, I knew I didnt deserve it, but I didnt have the emotional aptitude to deal with it. Everything felt like an attack I couldnt foresee or defend against and so withdrew farther and farther into my own world. The upstairs of our house was my space and I only left it when she was out, or if it was demanded of me, and then only for as long as absolutely necessary. Even after I left that house, for a long time I was very paranoid that I would forever be within her grasp, that her friends were watching me and reporting back. She managed to make it so that several friends of (even a lifelong friend of my grandma's who helped raise me) never want t to speak to me again. It was really... heartbreaking. I didnt know how to deal with emotions that seemed so overwhelming, and I felt like I couldnt trust my own perception. Its mainly been distance and introspection and positive influences in my life that have allowed me to pull myself out of that spiral and sort of rediscover myself.
That was really hard to write, but I want to move past that portion of my life once and for all and be free from the weight of it.

Extra Questions

Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)

- To constantly push yourself to be “the best”
Not the best, just good enough.
- To be without needs, well-intentioned
To some degree, my needs were treated as wants that I was selfish for having. I dont believe that to be true though.
- To replace direct experience with concepts
Often. Concepts I can understand and analyze, experience is so fleeting it seems.
- To have an extreme sense of personal moral obligation
Not really. I not amoral per se, but I dont have a strict code I adhere to.
- To think that fulfillment is somewhere else
No, fulfillment has always seemed internal.
- To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance
I can be indecisive, but I usually look to myself/my understanding of my faith to guide me.
- To overuse imagination in searching for yourself
Im not sure. I have an image of who I want to be (tough, impervious, wise) but I dont fantasize about being that person.
- To avoid conflicts and asserting yourself
- To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient
I know Im not, but I wish I was sometimes.


What's something you are: a.) thankful you have b.) wish you could have? Why?
a) my mind. It is my greatest tool, it is Me. My husband who has been with me since my darkest days and constantly pushed me to overcome so many obstacles.
b) I dont what I could wish for. All my needs are met. I have food and shelter. I have friends and many physical luxuries. I guess... more time to spend on all the many hobbies I have, and with the people I care about.

Temptations: Source

Credits

Original questionnaire: Spades, Paradigm, and Boss with the help of Owfin, madhatter, listentothemountains, and others.

Additions and alterations: Wake, Flatlander

Reviewed: Timeless, MBTI Enthusiast
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'll do my best to answer any questions succinctly.
I've also been leaning towards 538 myself, and when I first discovered enneagram, I self typed as a 5w4.
Lately though I don't relate as much to a lot of the stereotypes(introverted, studious, restrained) so I wanted to be sure I wasn't mistyped due to acting in a way contrary to my most innate tendencies, or If was just natural variation of type. If that makes sense.
 

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After a second reading of your questionnaire, the questions Have been addressed. So, not to be redundant, ;) Do most of the following statements resonate?

• Can be gregarious, generous friends
• Self declarative and socially courageous; more likely extraverted
• Could be dedicated to promoting a social or group cause, willing to take principledpolitical and social stands even if it means being uncomfortably exposed
• Connect with groups of like-minded people sharing knowledge and affiliations
• Prefer specialized or esoteric realms of knowledge that exclude the uninitiated
• Can be snobs; value knowing the “right” people, belonging to the best clubs orconcerned with titles, degrees, credentials
• Good listeners and behind-the-scenes facilitators who avoid the limelight
• Can have an odd combination of presence and distance, like they are fully involved and yet holding something back,
• Indiscreet; may share information with their chosen group and be quite gossipy.
from Social Affective Disorder, which is essentially stage fright
• A talent for predictions

• Combine intellectual imagination with emotional intelligence• Marriage of mental perspective with aesthetics
• Generally more kinesthetic (conscious of feelings)
• Use their logical mind to temper their visions, daydreams
• Use their logical mind to subdue their feelings
• Can have a sense of being alien although it is not pivotal to their identity andsomething they may enjoy; may be nostalgic like Fours
• May be eccentric and have an abstracted “absentminded professor” quality
• Some seem distracted, preoccupied and disorganized
• Can fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring
• Some have an air of implicit superiority
• Can be whiners, especially complaining about how much a job or a relationship orother responsibilities that drain them; could bemoan the difficulty of going beyond theirlimits
• Some have quiet voices and the non-verbal affect of ghosts
• Environmentally sensitive; may feel defenseless against the world’s imput

The markers I look for are all in there. Thoughts?

I would put your instinctual bias as SO/SP based on how you coped with the your stepmother.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bold is what I relate to, Italics indicate comments. The rest Im pretty ambivalent to.

• Can be gregarious, generous friends
• Self declarative and socially courageous; more likely extraverted
I dont know about this. Now that Im feeling okay about myself, I can own my successes a little better, but I dont draw a lot of attention to it, I dont think.
• Could be dedicated to promoting a social or group cause, willing to take principled political and social stands even if it means being uncomfortably exposed
No, not really. I have my beliefs, but I dont really need to express my beliefs or principles....
• Connect with groups of like-minded people sharing knowledge and affiliations
• Prefer specialized or esoteric realms of knowledge that exclude the uninitiated

• Can be snobs; value knowing the “right” people, belonging to the best clubs or concerned with titles, degrees, credentials
I am the exact opposite of this, actually. I dont place much value in titles and dislike people who throw their weight around.
• Good listeners and behind-the-scenes facilitators who avoid the limelight
• Can have an odd combination of presence and distance, like they are fully involved and yet holding something back,
• Indiscreet; may share information with their chosen group and be quite gossipy.

from Social Affective Disorder, which is essentially stage fright
• A talent for predictions

• Combine intellectual imagination with emotional intelligence
• Marriage of mental perspective with aesthetics

• Generally more kinesthetic (conscious of feelings)
No, actually, though I do tend to identify my feelings by the way they physically feel.
• Use their logical mind to temper their visions, daydreams
• Use their logical mind to subdue their feelings

• Can have a sense of being alien although it is not pivotal to their identity andsomething they may enjoy; may be nostalgic like Fours
• May be eccentric and have an abstracted “absentminded professor” quality
• Some seem distracted, preoccupied and disorganized

• Can fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring
Yes, although moreso when I was in an unhealthy loop.
• Some have an air of implicit superiority
• Can be whiners, especially complaining about how much a job or a relationship orother responsibilities that drain them; could bemoan the difficulty of going beyond theirlimits
• Some have quiet voices and the non-verbal affect of ghosts
• Environmentally sensitive; may feel defenseless against the world’s input
 

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I'm fairly confident, these fit your personality. 5w4 So/Sp/Sx. The above are the Fine Distinctions for Type Five (and 5w4 distinctions) by Tom Condon. . I'd like to see some other opinions that may narrow down your subtypes, perhaps more will chime in. Keep in mind we change as we grow older and I typed as a 4w5 in my mid 20's right after a terrible breakup. we get to know our patterns and motivations better imo. for your tri-types, I give you my favorite thread, I refer to often: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram-personality-theory-forum/164688-162-tritypes-summarised.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the input! That thread is the bomb!

I agree that 5w4 is a good fit, and Im toying with 3 and 8 for the rest of the tritype, but still trying to figure out the exact order. Hopefully some others will find this thread and offer some more insight.
Its mainly just because I like understanding myself and others better, and personal development is something I enjoy. I definitely get how circumstances can change how we view ourselves. Thats kinda what motivated this thread in the first place. I had developed a certain view of myself in light of my environment, and when I finally got that sorted out, my perception no longer fit reality and I wanted to explore why. Im definitely at a point in my life where I want to keep pushing boundaries and grow as a person, and personality theories are a fun way to do.
 

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I agree that you read as 5ish to me.

I had a strong fear of being put on the spot. Im a spontaneous person in the moment, but I used to obsessively think of future (or past) conversations/situations and how I frame them to be better or go more in my favour, a lot the time at the expense of actually being present in the moment when I was experiencing something I didnt have a frame of reference for.
6s tend to be planning-minded too, but don't usually desire mastery over their situations like this. The fear of being put on the spot or participating in the world in general, on the other hand, is classic 5, even if you've made good progress conquering it.

I want to be seen as competent and in control of myself/ my emotions. I dont necessarily want to be looked up to, but definitely not looked down on or pitied.
Kind of a roundabout description of the competency trio types (1,3,5).

I tend to be guarded to varying degrees with people, although because Im outgoing it usually doesnt appear so to others. I can talk with just about anyone, and especially debate, but rarely to I share my truest thoughts with people without some fear of judgement or repercussion.
I agree that you read as So-first and Sx-last. I think So-firsts have a tendency to find small talk enjoyable in a way that lots of other people don't, and the Sx-last seems appropriate for your awkwardness around intensity in social situations.

Everything felt like an attack I couldnt foresee or defend against and so withdrew farther and farther into my own world.
Retreating into your own world is a coping mechanism usually associated with 5s, although I'm not really sure what other options your mind would've had in this situation.

- To replace direct experience with concepts
Often. Concepts I can understand and analyze, experience is so fleeting it seems.
I'm pretty sure that part of the question is directed towards 5s, so you agreeing with it fits.

- To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient
I know Im not, but I wish I was sometimes.
The "temptation to consider yourself self-sufficient" is probably directed towards 8s, but you wishing that you were seems 5ish. Lots of 5s come across like they wish they could be their own island in that way.

My mind. It is my greatest tool, it is Me.
I can see where 000 is getting the 4-wing from. 4s are basically the stereotypical "it's not a phase mom, it's who I am" type in how they try to look at outward traits as representations of themselves. Sprinkle a little bit of that dust on master-of-my-mental-domain Type 5 and you get "my intellect is me".
 
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