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Some thoughts getting closer to Valentines day.

If Fi is dominant in INFP, doesn't the Fi want the infatuation, codependent, obsessive, oxytocin supercharged love over-the-top romantic experience? I thought that more emotional people would like more emotional content in their lives. Romantic ideals such as Romeo and Juliet seem to be what Fi is all about. I thought INFP like to have good feelings, so then why not aim for the best feeling? Maybe high emotionally sensitivity leads to a fear of infatuation.
 

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For me, I'd say yes. I do fight consciously against the codependent factor of it though cause that's way beyond healthy. I don't particularly enjoy fictitious romances but I do get fixated on characters in books, tv, movies etc. I do like to build a parallel story with a character [me] experiencing such an incredible emotional journey in my head. I've always done that since young so I can feel things, not just love but other stuff as well. It's a way to diffuse tension, but also build and understand my emotional world. It's like an urge that needs to be fulfilled over and over again and I don't think it relates to my actual love life.
 

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No. Obsessive and codependent relationships are unhealthy, so only an unhealthy INFP would want a relationship like that (Romeo and Juliet aren't a very good example of Fi. They were immature 12 and 16-year-olds, and who wasn't dumb as a teenager?). You misunderstand Fi. Fi isn't solely about emotions and maximizing good feelings; it's a judging function that uses a personalized moral code to evaluate information and make decisions. Fi-users value feelings because their feelings serve as a guide for making decisions that are congruent to their values.
So if you are interested in an INFP, then yes, be sensitive to their emotional needs, listen to them without passing judgement or invalidating their feelings, express yourself, and be genuine. But don't feel like you have to be over-the-top or excessively romantic if that's not the kind of person that you are.
 

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More than anything, I want something pure, something real, something genuine. As I've matured, I've realized that that idealized intensity that's described in everything from Shakespeare to those cheesy Twilight novels might be something beyond reach in reality. It's likely ephemeral. But if it is obtainable and exists, than I want it. I want the maximum level of romantic feeling possible. Almost like a merging of souls type of connection.

Minus the codependency part :tongue: I've got enough of that in my life already.
 

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Maybe young ones. I think in general INxx types take a while to mature socially and so have ideas of romance based on movies and books (INFx) or based on “Oh my gosh I have no clue” (INTx).

But remember, Fi values authenticity above all else. The thought of losing oneself in another is antithetical to who we are.

That said, attachment style has as much to do with this as personality type. I just took an attachment style quiz and rated fairly highly on both relationship anxiety AND relationship avoidance (note I answered in general terms about all my relationships; I never feel anxious about my husband). Bizarrely this made me test as “balanced”. Balanced between neurotic and dismissive, I guess :laughing:

But I tested as “coolly detached”. Yes I am emotional but emotions to me are primarily an internal check on how I’m doing in life, my way of checking in against what I value. I don’t present externally as especially emotional. I prefer my few relationships to be stable and reliable.
 

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It's not so much about the romance for me, but more about the freedom, utility, and strength together. I can sufficiently have that as a single person, so all the guy has to do is not slow me down. Codependence, obsession, and pesky brain chemicals would negatively affect my progress, and that doesn't interest me.

I don't have anyone this Valentine's Day, but I'm not concerned about it. Anyone having affection for me over the next few months, and probably the rest of the year, would slow me down. But I should still be vigilant.
 

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To be honest I've been hurt too much by guys in the past to get that feeling anymore...I've tried but it just doesn't come anymore, I'm too aware of the reality of relationships and I'm not strong enough to handle the setbacks (I know, I'm an inadequate person)...but I sometimes enjoy living vicariously through fictional characters and whatnot. Like after I got out of an abusive relationship when I was younger I watched Twin Peaks and fell in love with Bobby Briggs because he saved Shelly from her abusive husband. And when Fifty Shades of Grey came out well...I hadn't seen the movie yet but I heard the song Beyonce contributed to the soundtrack in the trailer and I would listen to it all the time, with images from the trailer and such I had seen in my head to go along with the music... It brought back some of that romantic feeling I was capable of when I was younger.

So yeah... I guess I'm not capable of that feeling very much but I enjoy it sometimes, when it comes. I guess my imagination is a little overactive and I have a lot of romantic rescue fantasies and whatnot. I just have a really hard time reconciling them with reality, I guess. I'm not really capable of it, at least at this point in my life.
 

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1 infatuation, 2 codependent, 3 obsessive, 4 oxytocin supercharged love 5 over-the-top romantic experience? 6 I thought that more emotional people would like more emotional content in their lives. 7 Romantic ideals such as Romeo and Juliet
1. I've never experienced infatuation, I don't think, and if I have then I don't really know what it means. I always think of infatuation as sexual attraction that is ephemeral and based on not knowing the whole person, just a fantasy, and as a demisexual I just don't experience this thing, because by the time I'm "infatuated" I'm already in a committed relationship with the person and I already know their flaws, so I'm not in a fantasy, so... I dunno... infatuation has never appealed to me... Maybe I just don't understand the concept, tbh.

2. Nope. I will quote Blue Flower now because she explained this soooo well:

Fi values authenticity above all else. The thought of losing oneself in another is antithetical to who we are.
Moreover, introversion means a need for lots of alone time in order to stay healthy/sane. I cannot breathe with a codependent person by my side, someone who needs me for practically everything will kill me quickly, as I need entire days without their presence.
With this said, when in relationship I do need daily contact with the person, but not for serious things, just to say good night or good morning. Fi is extremely independent and wants to do things "by myself, thank you". Needing the other person's help or attention at all times is not a thing really.

3. This word is terrifying. But hormones do that, yes, happens to everyone at one point in any dating scenario more or less, you stay awake at night wondering, thinking, overthinking, exhausted you want to frikkin fall asleep and you just can't, frikkin' thinking uuugghhhh. Happens.

4. Yeeesss pleeeeease. Feed me oxytocin nomnomnom.

5. Not really, because the descriptor "over the top" doesn't seem sincere to my Fi, and I'm sure it's the same way for many Fi doms. I dislike big displays of romance, they're terribly uncomfortable, and prefer low key things. It's the low-key things that give me the immense deep hard feelings, because they are terribly meaningful. Big displays aren't meaningful to me, I feel suspicious. So this will depend on what is meaningful to each individual Fi.
If "over the top experience" means deep hard inner experience, then I have that all the time. Sometimes I'm sitting in the train and I'll watch the landscape through the window and I get this emotional download and bawl my eyes out of the sockets. We can experience this also watching a great movie, listening to music, things like that... so just like nobody settles for music that makes them feel mediocre or underwhelmed, we shouldn't settle for people/connections who make us feel mediocre emotions. We should aim for the gold! I like the inner romantic experience to be of the highest quality.

6. Yes. High emotional content is my food, it's what sustains my brain, my creativity, my blood, my sharp wit, and in the face of its absence I pack my stuff and leave because the situation makes me starve and it's also seen as meaningless by Fi.

7. While the story of R & J is crazy, as we all know, many Feelers are drawn to it for the depth of feeling, not the story/plot. I have read that play many times, and I'm always captivated by the way it's written, not the plot, not the characters, I'm captivated by how words can make you feel so much and with so many nuances everywhere.
The characters in the movie The Notebook feel terribly deep for each other as well, and I think that that's why the movie was and still is so popular and loved by so many people, even people who aren't romantically oriented.
I value the kind of connection with another human that is yes deep but also timeless, stable and unbreakable, and those qualities are what make it meaningful, true, authentic, all the ingredients that my Fi needs to stay healthy and sane.
I believe that people are seeing R & J's thing as timeless and unbreakable too, and that's what they're drawn to.

I have also found that having that timeless, stable, deep and oxytocinized love with a man helps me access parts of myself as a woman that I simply cannot access by myself. It can only happen when presented with a contrast -and not every man provides this contrast. So connection of the romantic type has many benefits, one of them is a richer human experience as it pushes you to hidden parts of yourself, and sometimes these parts are marvelous and sometimes they're eeewww. But all the eeewwws are welcome because it makes for a whole person, and a Whole Person is the Truth, and Truth = authenticity. So there you go, romance helps access wholeness and therefore authenticity. The whole thing has soooo many benefits, srsly, it's amazing what Love does to you.
 

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I have also found that having that timeless, stable, deep and oxytocinized love with a man helps me access parts of myself as a woman that I simply cannot access by myself. It can only happen when presented with a contrast -and not every man provides this contrast. So connection of the romantic type has many benefits, one of them is a richer human experience as it pushes you to hidden parts of yourself, and sometimes these parts are marvelous and sometimes they're eeewww. But all the eeewwws are welcome because it makes for a whole person, and a Whole Person is the Truth, and Truth = authenticity. So there you go, romance helps access wholeness and therefore authenticity. The whole thing has soooo many benefits, srsly, it's amazing what Love does to you.
I agree with this but would like to add to it. The huge majority of people I meet, I have little connection to. I might like them, enjoy their company, even care about them. But there is no spark. No true bonding. At work they periodically move around who we sit with and many are upset, some cry, but I’m like “meh”.

But infrequently (every 7-10 years, maybe) I meet someone who I have some deep connection with. There’s instant captivation. I’m fascinated. They make me feel alive. They make me understand things about myself I never knew, or reconnect with things I thought I left behind when I was 20. It is almost always a man, very rarely a woman. There’s a sense that it could be romantic but it doesn’t have to be, or maybe I wish it was but I know it could never work. Or maybe it might have worked but I’m in a committed relationship where I’m happy so there is not a snowball’s chance of anything happening; I refuse to hurt someone I’m with or risk true attachment by chasing rainbows.

I live for this. I find it magnetic and frightening and beautiful. It’s what gives life meaning. Most of these relationships run their course after a few years. The person either drifts away or circumstances change. In the case of my husband it turned into a more normal love; one can’t maintain that level of intensity.

I’ve read that INFP is deeply committed to loved ones but also can have trouble staying with one person because of the Ne/Fi combination. We always see possibilities. Maybe this is my version of that. Because it is with learning to connect deeply with new people that we discover ever-deeper parts of ourselves.
 

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Excellent thread!

If Fi is dominant in INFP, doesn't the Fi want the infatuation, codependent, obsessive, oxytocin supercharged love over-the-top romantic experience?


To a reasonable extent, I absolutely do. I can't say that this can be generalized to all Fi-doms, though, because I don't know a whole lot of IxFPs outside of the internet.

But yeah, as much as I'd like to keep a pretense of having a healthy outlook...I'm not going to lie. This is what I want. Not necessarily the codependent part, but everything else...yeah. Obsessive, oxytocin-charged, infatuation, giving her whatever she wants whenever she wants it, love notes, giving flowers or chocolate or what have you, needing to be around each other almost constantly, telling each other everything...yes. YES.

That being said, I haven't had a crush on anyone in years - and it hasn't been a conscious thing, either. I used to have them almost constantly. Maybe it's because I'm finally over ​yay lol PUBERTY! but I really think that my brain simply got tired of disappointment, and taught me to stop getting my hopes up when I have never had a single time when they weren't crushed.

Oddly enough, it hasn't hurt as much lately watching couples hold hands and kiss in public. It still hurts, but not as much as it used to. There's just a quiet sense of numbness now. I noticed that tonight at the ice cream shop; this couple was holding each other right in front of me in line and I didn't feel that stab in the heart that I usually do...Not sure if that's a good thing or not. :S
 

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Some thoughts getting closer to Valentines day.

If Fi is dominant in INFP, doesn't the Fi want the infatuation, codependent, obsessive, oxytocin supercharged love over-the-top romantic experience? I thought that more emotional people would like more emotional content in their lives. Romantic ideals such as Romeo and Juliet seem to be what Fi is all about. I thought INFP like to have good feelings, so then why not aim for the best feeling? Maybe high emotionally sensitivity leads to a fear of infatuation.
I feel like I would have a meltdown having a romantic experience like that....I run when I sense obsessiveness and codependency. 100% unhealthy and a big no-no. Romeo and Juliet make me gag lol...I don't want to be the center of someone's universe, the fuel of their entire being, what gets them out of bed in the morning. Nor do I desire or have the time to allow someone into that space.

Romance to me is, someone is living their life, doesn't NEED me at all, but WANTS me there. And likewise for me. The second they need me or vice versa, we've stumbled, in my opinion. Romantic relationships are great, and those in them should prioritize that bond, but not to the extent that nothing else gives them joy, and they throw their lives away for the sake of it.

And my best feelings come from comfort and vibes with another person. Infatuation is so awful to me. I don't like being consumed with thoughts of someone, having to consciously clear my head every twenty seconds because I can't stop thinking about them. When we can chill, talk for hours or not at all, support each other and know each other, that's where my good feelings come from. :frustrating:
 

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To a reasonable extent, I absolutely do. I can't say that this can be generalized to all Fi-doms, though, because I don't know a whole lot of IxFPs outside of the internet.

But yeah, as much as I'd like to keep a pretense of having a healthy outlook...I'm not going to lie. This is what I want. Not necessarily the codependent part, but everything else...yeah. Obsessive, oxytocin-charged, infatuation, giving her whatever she wants whenever she wants it, love notes, giving flowers or chocolate or what have you, needing to be around each other almost constantly, telling each other everything...yes. YES.
I have to say that this is so beautiful. And you can absolutely have this. You don't look unhealthy to me (not that I know you lol, but u know... from what you're saying). Especially cause you already understand that the concept of codependency isn't.. eerrm.. desirable, really.
Everything you've described in your post is exactly what happened with my INFP ex-bf. By 28 y/o at the time (years ago) he had resigned himself to be alone forever, he had never had a girlfriend and dreamed of the ideal woman every night, but since he had never encountered evidence that this woman existed, he gave up and resigned himself to a life of lovelessness and non-stop casual sex.
When he met me, he says that it was like entering the disney fantasy that he had always dreamed about. And it was now real. We were conjoined twins lol, and it never faded, it was intense, soulful, charged, all the adjectives, until the day we ended it, it never stopped, even our breakup was full of unconditional love and well wishes. And the reason for our success was complete emotional vulnerability and understanding from both sides, and that made us conjoined twins lol We didn't have anxiety when we were apart, therefore we were never codependent. We both had abandonment issues from childhood, but they never came up because we were so 100% compatible that we were both healed in an instant. I think that when someone loves you well, they heal you. And I see so many people in relationships keeping score, strategizing, doubting their desires to express interest "should I text? should I control myself? they'll think I'm needy if I text five times, I'll just pretend I'm cool and not needy", and we never played that game. He wasn't afraid of being seen as obsessive, he was like "This is me, take me or leave me" and I was the same way. We weren't trying to impress each other, or hide vulnerable parts in order to appear cool. And you can't have a Grand love if you don't risk being perceived as psychotic.
So you don't sound unrealistic to me at all, because I have lived in 1st person the intensity of an INFP man, and it's not for the faint of heart. I'm also incredibly intense and emotionally insatiable, so it does make it difficult for all of us to find someone who will go that far.
Also, love is not just something that you are born knowing how to do -I'm talking about the action part, not the feeling part. It's a skill you refine. Most people don't know how to love well, I see it all the time, and they're not even interested in getting better at it. And the reality is that he gave me everything that I wanted, literally he spoiled me rotten, and the most important thing we gave each other was unconditional acceptance of everything, including the darkest ugliest thoughts. Most people run away at that point, but a thing about many, if not most INFPs, and probably ENFPs, is that we can see a person's Monster side and not even flinch, we're like "Yep, this is a real person. I like real. Don't like seeing ugly things cause rainbows is more pleasant, but only-rainbows has realness missing".

Maybe that's why there's so many depressed INFPs being vocal about it (and it drives me insane tbh, I have to "hide posts" on facebook with all the depressed kids talking about it non stop) and we're a type known as emo; cause we see all sides of the human experience, the pretty and the ugly and the smelly. And the ugly is part of true Love. Wait, I think I went on a tangent... good lord help me xD...

note: monster =/= abusive shit. I think we all know that by now. I'm talking about the shadow stuff, psychologically speaking, the things we buried long ago and are now rotting.
 

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entheos makes some good points about love and healing. I know the “Am I being needy, should I play it cool?” feeling because I can get that way. And one reason I married my husband is I NEVER feel that with him. When we first met we were very long-distance. The internet was young and texting wasn’t even a thing. We were mostly relying on email. And one day I didn’t hear from him. At all. Turns out his internet was down and his phone (same line). I heard from him the very next day and I had a total INFP meltdown because the incident triggered all those abandonment issues. I was so scared I was mad and so I tore into him “You scared me, I thought you were gone or something happened or or or.”

And instead of getting mad or defensive or all “You should trust me more” he just told me how sorry he was and how he should have found a cafe or something with a public computer to contact me, and of course I was worried and he was bad for doing that to me.

He is ENTJ and really independent but yeah, we touch base constantly. Always have, always will.
 

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@Blue Flower I looooove ur stories so much <3

Yep, literally same thing, he never made me feel crazy or wrong for having some kind of meltdown, he'd be like "Ooohh I'm so sorry that this situation caused this thing in you, it's okay, I should've thought about this and this and that, well I will do that next time" and he just made a whole plan inside his head, and I was like "What the fuck? He doesn't find me annoying? He's actually thinking of some kind of plan to keep my emotional state calm and safe? WTF". This thing heals you instantly, because suddenly that anxious part of you (shadow) is being seen and heard and validated after years of neglect and rejection, so it gets all this light showered on it and it dissintegrates like magic.
 

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When I was younger I would have said yes in heartbeat, though I am not entirely sure if I desired it as much as saw it as a test of what I was capable of.

Then I realized that such a connection is just not all that realistic and expecting it can lead to disappointment. It seems better left for my imagination, unless it happens to waltz in.

I have actually experienced obsessive love, a mirror connection met through a glance, though without actually being in a relationship. And while I'll never be entirely sure if that absence was the reason why, I can confirm that it was incredibly painful. Fruitless, no, it did prompt quite a bit of self-discovery. But it also controlled my emotions and clouded my brain from making other decisions.

The truth is I have absolutely no idea how to actually act in an obsessive pursuit. To reveal such a strong sensation is to give away far more of myself than I am comfortable with. And to be in the direction of infatuation, well, feels both awkward and unfair.

I had what was like an epiphany in a dream a few months ago, where I was just casually in an auditorium with a boy I once knew, and secretly liked a little. He was cute, not gorgeous. He was funny and nice, not a mind reader. We did not have a psychic connection nor was he somebody I would have invented in a dream. But he just made me feel so good to be around, so comfortable, like we just enjoyed eachother individually as people. This was significantly different from past experiences because there was no pain, just happiness.

I guess now I'm not convinced that all that flame-y bullshit is really the right path, at least for me. I'm beginning to think it's a trap, like chasing after your own reflection. Maybe it's more about finding somebody to help you find utilize all the tools you've always had all along, not to necessarily give you something you are missing.
 
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