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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I was first introduced to the MBTI the first thing I could say without a doubt was that I am a J through and through. Lately I've been seeing the subtle differences in the way J characteristics are manifested in others, in particular, in my ESTJ father. When I focus on the details of things I'm a part of they are generally for things that are relatively short-term. Things like making sure all my coursework for a week is ready ahead of time, and remembering all I need to take to various events so I don't have to make multiple trips. However, my dad's J really comes out when he concerns himself with things so far in the future that my family knows we're going to hear about them every day until they actually come up. Trying to think more than a few months ahead (other than with important life decisions that must be thought of early on) on the planning of something only frustrates me. I'm sure with him this is a result of making our family is provided for, so it's certainly understandable. I don't think it would be so noticeable if he wasn't an E as well and feels the need to think out loud about his future plans and ideas, as well as his daily schedule, all of the time. :wink: No doubt I have moments where I wish I could plan out the rest of my life but that gets overwhelming fast and I push it back and force myself to focus on the more immediate things on my metaphorical plate, haha.

I say all of this to ask how you all function as a J type. Are you more set in a day to week planning frame of mind, or do you also feel the need to deal with all the details of plans in the distant future? What things do you focus on most with it? I'm sure we all plan and maintain order in our own ways, but I'm just curious how the rest of you do.
 

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I have also noticed that ESTJs are better at long range planning than I am. I do plan for the long term future, but it is more of an effort than is the immediate future.

I think that learning to plan long term is a very important part of success and believe that we as ISTJs must embrace that level of planning if we are going to happen to life instead of life happening to us.

Thanks for bringing up a really, really good point.:happy:
 

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I don't think I long range plan very much. The only planning I really do is to make sure to lay out enough time to get my homework assignments or projects done for the week. I will make sure every detail is prepared. I'll do all my graduate school applications one at a time in my free time to make sure I don't miss any deadlines.

As far as grad school goes, I haven't done any long range planning for what I want to do after that (I know I want to be an accountant, but I haven't given much though to what firm I want to work for, for example).

When it comes to long term planning, I bet I would do stuff like start saving for my 401k early (no job yet) and saving for a house. And if I were to decide to go on a vacation that year, I might try to plan early so that I could get the best rates on stuff (like plane tickets and what not).

But really, I don't see what's the point of doing too much long-term planning. Many of your long-term goals may change over time and with new experiences. Maybe your father does it because he's older and has figured out what he wants out of life, as well as what types of goals he wants to fulfill ? So maybe it coems with age?

I'm rambling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have also noticed that ESTJs are better at long range planning than I am. I do plan for the long term future, but it is more of an effort than is the immediate future.

I think that learning to plan long term is a very important part of success and believe that we as ISTJs must embrace that level of planning if we are going to happen to life instead of life happening to us.
I definitely agree, my father's planning in this way has certainly paid off over the year. When I really sit down and think about it I do a good deal of long-term planning but my priorities for planning are, of course, very different from my father who is more than twice my age. Other than that, the difference is also pretty clear because of the extroversion, as I mentioned before. :wink:

I've also noticed some friends who have a line of "J-ness" that once they cross they just don't seem to care. Something like their room being unorganized bothers them until it get really out of hand and they just blow it off completely.


I don't think I long range plan very much. The only planning I really do is to make sure to lay out enough time to get my homework assignments or projects done for the week. I will make sure every detail is prepared. I'll do all my graduate school applications one at a time in my free time to make sure I don't miss any deadlines.

As far as grad school goes, I haven't done any long range planning for what I want to do after that (I know I want to be an accountant, but I haven't given much though to what firm I want to work for, for example).

When it comes to long term planning, I bet I would do stuff like start saving for my 401k early (no job yet) and saving for a house. And if I were to decide to go on a vacation that year, I might try to plan early so that I could get the best rates on stuff (like plane tickets and what not).

But really, I don't see what's the point of doing too much long-term planning. Many of your long-term goals may change over time and with new experiences. Maybe your father does it because he's older and has figured out what he wants out of life, as well as what types of goals he wants to fulfill ? So maybe it coems with age?

I'm rambling.
I'm definitely with you on assignments and things associated with school due to the effect I know they'll have on my future. However, little desire to plan out the things that I don't see as overly consequential . They go through my mind but I know if I give them to much thought I'll lose focus with things of greater importance.


Thanks for your all's imput!
 
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I definitely agree, my father's planning in this way has certainly paid off over the year. When I really sit down and think about it I do a good deal of long-term planning but my priorities for planning are, of course, very different from my father who is more than twice my age. Other than that, the difference is also pretty clear because of the extroversion, as I mentioned before. :wink:

I've also noticed some friends who have a line of "J-ness" that once they cross they just don't seem to care. Something like their room being unorganized bothers them until it get really out of hand and they just blow it off completely.




I'm definitely with you on assignments and things associated with school due to the effect I know they'll have on my future. However, little desire to plan out the things that I don't see as overly consequential . They go through my mind but I know if I give them to much thought I'll lose focus with things of greater importance.


Thanks for your all's imput!
I'm with you, Firedancer. I don't concern myself with the far future. That's just TOO many variables to deal with. And really, a lot of them can't be predicted. Sadly, I have a fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants approach to long term planning, unless it specifically can be managed in the here and now in any appreciable way. I mean, I can appreciably plan my next few years in terms of courses and degree, and I can start networking for jobs after that, but how can I manage, and plan for a wife and kids? That kind of stuff just doesn't have a rigid enough structure to deal with effectively. You can't plan which house you are going to live in when you get enough money for it, either. Too much changing. So, why worry about it right now? One step at a time, right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm with you, Firedancer. I don't concern myself with the far future. That's just TOO many variables to deal with. And really, a lot of them can't be predicted. Sadly, I have a fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants approach to long term planning, unless it specifically can be managed in the here and now in any appreciable way. I mean, I can appreciably plan my next few years in terms of courses and degree, and I can start networking for jobs after that, but how can I manage, and plan for a wife and kids? That kind of stuff just doesn't have a rigid enough structure to deal with effectively. You can't plan which house you are going to live in when you get enough money for it, either. Too much changing. So, why worry about it right now? One step at a time, right?
Exactly, I can handle all the school planning necessary, and things of that nature, but anything unfamiliar that I'm attempting to plan for even a few months in the future is stressful...so I often make myself take a step back before I get myself stuck between a rock and a crazy place, lol.

For example, one of my good friends is getting married in October and just asked me the other day to be her photographer. I've done a lot of photography but never a wedding and that makes me incredibly nervous. When she first told me I immediately started going through a million checklists in my head to make sure I could do it and do it well. After one night of worrying myself to death over something almost 2 1/2 months away I made myself chill and I'm just going to work on it a little at a time. That's not so far ahead but it's something I've never done so I have to consciously tell myself that it will get done in time and well...but for now focus on more immediate things. :cool:
 
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Pretty much the same here. My school planning I do for pretty much the entire semester (so I don't fall behind; I have a planner JUST for school that the school provided) and a few other things (like making sure I write down in my regular planner the dates to pay my insurance and post office box fees, which are due twice a year). OTOH, what I'm going to do (job-wise, especially considering the current job market) once I get out of school? No clue.
 

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I always have at least 5 years in the future planned ahead. But usually it's just big decisions... or decisions that I know will require more details later. I can honestly make an accurate guess about where I will be in 1, 2, or even 5 years from now. I would say that I get less flexible as the amount of time decreases (I remember a thread on how an ISTJ was upset with changing plans on different locations of Denny's?). It's like that- I can change my mind a million times about things that are 5 years in the future, but the less likely I am to change my mind as time decreases. If I made up my mind to go to Starbucks with friends on Saturday at 3PM, then it will take a lot to get me to be okay with changing the time. If my friends ended up changing places- then I would throw a tantrum inside my head and attempt my hardest to smile on the outside.

As for schoolwork- I am usually pretty honest with myself and my illness (aka procrastination). I will actually plan out my procrastination. Some things I know are far too important to allow procrastination to get in the way- so I take extra care to plan those things out. But all of this planning is inside my head... I tried using a planner this past school year- it didn't work out as I had planned. I think it was still beneficial- I never thought that it would help me visualize my time more.
 

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You know what's crazy about this? I have an ESTJ friend who has exhibited behavior similar to your dad.

For example, in the past, we tried to meet up over a weekend (we live far away from each other). I sent him an email on a Monday asking him if there was a weekend over the next few months that would work for him. He said he was booked up mostly for the next few months, but if I was free the upcoming weekend he'd be up for it.

So basically, that meant that he was willing to accommodate me and change his plans for the short term, about five days in advance.

I couldn't meet up with him that weekend. We instead set a date about three months in advance. Two weeks before that weekend, he told me his plans had changed, but then asked me if I could do the weekend before the one we had planned. Yet again, he planned something in the long term, but didn't mind changing it when the short term time arrived.


So at this point I kind of thought he was a P, because he didn't seem to mind changing his plans as they came up.


Finally, another time I tried to set up something with him, but I waited until about a month in advance to contact him. When I did, he told me he was pretty much booked up for the next six months! That's when I totally saw his J come out.




Now, I'll be honest that it feels like a coincidence that both he and your dad are both ESTJ's. But it's an interesting thing to think about, at least. I don't see the connection at all, but is it possible that ISJ's and ESJ's have a different way of looking at this? Like I said, the idea doesn't seem to make sense because I see no reason for it to be the case, but it is kind of an interesting coincidence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
As for schoolwork- I am usually pretty honest with myself and my illness (aka procrastination). I will actually plan out my procrastination. Some things I know are far too important to allow procrastination to get in the way- so I take extra care to plan those things out. But all of this planning is inside my head... I tried using a planner this past school year- it didn't work out as I had planned. I think it was still beneficial- I never thought that it would help me visualize my time more.
Haha, I do this as well. During a semester at school I always stay ahead, but let's say two weeks before something is due I will try to plan out when to work on it. However, I may set out a few hours a day for a couple of days. This way I know that if someone calls and wants to do something I can pick up and go because I already have another time set aside. However, if I get it done ahead of time all the better. But usually when I get ahead on something I start that same cycle of planned procrastination with another paper or something. :tongue:
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You know what's crazy about this? I have an ESTJ friend who has exhibited behavior similar to your dad.
Yeah, it may be a coincidence, but that's pretty cool. It's crazy how different "planners" can be, making people with a different style hard for other strong J types to make plans with. I can see why you thought you're friend was a P at first because I have an ENFP friend who a group of my friends and I have been trying to make plans with all summer...to no avail aside from one wedding that he'd known about since January. He had something almost every weekend, but what got us was that we even tried to start setting a few weekends up before school was out...before his other plans were made. However, at the time he was still sticking to his P nature and leaving his options open. Then when summer came around those he was with at home were the ones he knew he had to set down dates with so his summer quickly filled up. No one was mad but it gets frustrating, as I'm sure it did with your friend, to keep changing plans and things because they (in your case) are extreme long-term planners, or they (in my case) leave their options open and then make decisions based on those with them at the current time. Thanks for your reply!
 
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