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MOTM Jan 2014
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Responding as I listen.

"Affect the world/ have impact in the world" - already sounds more "attachment type" than 5, so I am leaning 6 already..


Hmm.. "A position in the world." Definitely Social first..

You keep saying "having a strong position" - this "strong position" is much more grounded in the world than a 5... I know that a 5 can want success and all, but the amount of focus on it just isn't detached enough to merit 5 typing. (I'm not explaining this well, thinking aloud while listening)


"To influence people with my mind, mind is everything" etc - head triad indicator

"Eccentric and mad genius" I cant tell you how many sixes say this :D and also "To avoid being mainstream." This is why they mistype at 4. "I avoid being seen as shallow." all of this reminds me of this video.. by Amy Lee who is a 6...


This video is about what many sixes want to avoid "doing or being" in my experience.

To quote osmething I wrote on the mistype thread:

Most 4s will relate to a desire for authenticity, but not to a desire to be unique. To call someone "unique" is to assess them against an external framework. To conceptualize "unique" or "common" requires agreeing on standards for what is acceptable, admirable, or expected. This implies being connected to the framework of others in the first place. Connectivity - which 4s feel they lack - is implicit in the concept of "uniqueness," so it is misleading to associate this with 4s, who feel more grounded in their own feelings. (This should not be glorified as some glamorous beacon of independence. More realistically, it is self-absorbed, and thus, isolating.) A 4s is unlikely to think in terms of "unique" or "common" ... she is more likely to categorize her traits and connections as "authentic" vs. "baseless." She is not driven to rebel or comply with some external system - but rather, to seek who she truly is, internally, and define herself by something significant.

This leads to a struggle with self-expression. It is embarrassing for a 4 to express the things about herself that are shameful, loathsome, weak and horrible, but if she does, then she can assure herself that she is authentic and her connections are meaningful. What makes her feel connected is expressing herself honestly, and feeling that someone else "gets it." Yet this is difficult, when there is so much shame about who she is.
Not sure if I explained this well. But 4s might think something very "typical" and "human" is significant - like love. Or appreciating music. You will notice that some 4 musicians are more "expressive of emotions" than "ground breaking." I heard a great description of 4s as an 'internal hall of mirrors.' It's more about having something significant enough to reflect on , rather than something unique based on some insignificant/baseless definition. The idea of a collective definition of what's "unique" is kind of insignificant in itself.
So this is not your 4 fix, I see it as 6 line to 3 (wanting to stand out) and line to 9 (wanting to matter)


"I want an extraordinary life" _ sounds like 7 influence.. although I guess a lot of people could say that

You mention your deepest fear is being invaded, and then you mention a guy who talks to you on skype - but this gives you away as a six. First of all a person on skype is not an "invasion" because you can close skype or just turn it off. The reason its an invasion is not physical, they arent coming in through your door - so its an EMOTIONAL invasion.. someone invading you because for some reason you feel obligated to answer them...but that sense of obligation comes from YOU. To speak for myself, I don't feel obligated to answer my messages as soon as they come - I answer on my time. Thus they are not an invasion. If someone messages me constantly and annoys me I will eventually tell them so and end the contact or just withdraw and keep my distance.

5 fear of invasion is combatted in a completely different way than you describe. they wall off their mind and influences so nobody can become part of their world. It's what is meant by avarice. They might be in the world but who they truly are is separate from the world. Nothing is part of "who they are" except the very few people or pursuits that they allow to be part of their sense of self. So that is a totally different thing than what you are describing for fear of invasion.





Talking about how you're "different" from most people, different from the common folk - again this is six thinking - because there's an idea that is attached to what "most people" are from which you differentiate yourself. That's an attachment to an outside standard.

Btw, I am not disagreeing that you are unique. I'm not taking that away from you or invalidating it. Just pointing out that this very terminology to identify it as being an important part of who you are - I understand why people interpret that as 4, but personally I don't think the way you're phrasing it has a leak of 4 in it, at least here..



friends .. and all your talk about the world is very social-dom..


"being isolated," "loving / hating/ needing people" etc - this is just human :)
however, "What makes me feel my worst is being away from people" - no 5 would say that.. I'm not sure how to qualify that statement, but it's utterly un-5ish. 5s have grounding in their own mind and feel most alive when they're alone, even if they also need people in some degree because they are human.


1-fix shines through in the end. You withhold your anger because its not right etc.

"Shame" - I think your voice is splendid the way it is. And your accent. It's lovely. :)

"If I have shame I hide it or I become something more desirable" - sounds like 3 fix - specifically 3w4.

To become something more desirable is blaringly 3ish, whereas 4s fear insignificance and thus would not become something desirable if they did not feel it is "part of them." There is a strong attachment to a sense of significant identity, something that is "real" and "meaningful" and you have been that way your whole life, as a 4... so "becoming" something "more desirable" is not how 4s work, even if due to shame, they hide some of the undesirable traits, or just withdraw entirely. This is why 4 is a withdrawn type in the shame triad. They withdraw rather than "become something else" which is what 3s do. Of course 4w3s especially will "put forth"the image that they feel represents them, and all 4s will want to try to become their own "ideal self" - but something more desirable in a general sense? I can't imagine a 4 saying that.


Authority makes you suspicious - thats 6

You search for power to get what you want.. control other peoples life.. this is 6 and with a 7 bent (get what you want) though I guess I could buy 5 wing.


my best guess 6w7 1w9 3w4 So/Sx


I won't insist on it, it's just what i get from this video.
 

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No, my type doesn't belong to the gut triad.
Well, I figured the consideration would be no worse than the type 5 one, so \_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: In all seriousness, though, I've been thinking you seem more 3w4-fixed than 4-fixed in your image-focus, but I see @Animal has already suggested that, and seems to explain it decently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
@Mandraque
immediately I got So/Sx and and head center. I still think 6w7 So/Sx. too superego for 5, not cynical enough for 6w5. 6w7>4w3>1w2 So/Sx
I have a strong connection to 5. I can't imagine myself as a 6w7 now. I've analysed my past and it shows a strong connection to 5. The isolation, the withdrawn, the minimizing needs with the outside world.. it's all 5 in the end. I just type as 6 because I tend to doubt about everything... even myself at times. But I am a much more aggressive version of 6 and, believe it or not, cynical. I was very cynical of humanity in my last year in college... I saw everybody as pigs, who would just live to have sex, and it was a very sensitive period of my life. I was also cynical in high school, with profound hate towards humans and people. All of that seems to point at 6w5.

@Animal wow thank you for your deep analysis :kitteh:


Responding as I listen.

"Affect the world/ have impact in the world" - already sounds more "attachment type" than 5, so I am leaning 6 already..
I think this is more social first with Ni dom


Hmm.. "A position in the world." Definitely Social first..
True


"To influence people with my mind, mind is everything" etc - head triad indicator
Yeap, I've always known (after analyzing the enneagram in deep) that my core belongs to the head triad.


"Eccentric and mad genius" I cant tell you how many sixes say this :D and also "To avoid being mainstream." This is why they mistype at 4. "I avoid being seen as shallow." all of this reminds me of this video.. by Amy Lee who is a 6...

Guilty :D My initial typing was 4w5. Then I discovered that I deal essentially with feelings of anxiety, authority and independence.


"I want an extraordinary life" _ sounds like 7 influence.. although I guess a lot of people could say that
I think imo that this is more 4 than 7. Not sure why.


You mention your deepest fear is being invaded, and then you mention a guy who talks to you on skype - but this gives you away as a six. First of all a person on skype is not an "invasion" because you can close skype or just turn it off. The reason its an invasion is not physical, they arent coming in through your door - so its an EMOTIONAL invasion.. someone invading you because for some reason you feel obligated to answer them...but that sense of obligation comes from YOU. To speak for myself, I don't feel obligated to answer my messages as soon as they come - I answer on my time. Thus they are not an invasion. If someone messages me constantly and annoys me I will eventually tell them so and end the contact or just withdraw and keep my distance.
I'm a Fe user while you deal with Fi, that's the difference ahaha I hope to correspond to other people's expectations of me.


5 fear of invasion is combatted in a completely different way than you describe. they wall off their mind and influences so nobody can become part of their world. It's what is meant by avarice. They might be in the world but who they truly are is separate from the world. Nothing is part of "who they are" except the very few people or pursuits that they allow to be part of their sense of self. So that is a totally different thing than what you are describing for fear of invasion.
Actually, I can relate to what you describe here. I just didn't express myself better.



"Shame" - I think your voice is splendid the way it is. And your accent. It's lovely. :)
Oh thank you :) I really appreciate that.


"If I have shame I hide it or I become something more desirable" - sounds like 3 fix - specifically 3w4.
Sorry, but I have to disagree here. 4s, in particular sexual 4s, are much more about turning their flaws into something desirable. That's why they are usually labeled as competitive and anger consuming. In the end, 4s want to be envied, imo.



my best guess 6w7 1w9 3w4 So/Sx
Yuckk my lest favorite tritype. Honestly, this tritype is just the average joe. I could see why you type me as 1w9 fix, as opposed to 1w2. But totally disagree with 3 fix. My 3-ness may come from strong connection to 3. :)
 
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MOTM Jan 2014
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@Mandraque

I can see that - I've always thought you were a 4w3 fixer I guess. I was just commenting on the video.. of course you didnt spend much time on the "shame" issue and it was kind of a throwaway answer which like you said, could relate to line-to-3. so yeah.. makes sense. :)


That said I disagree with the "Average Joe" part - no tritype or type makes someone average or different. thats some perc myth. :p


Oh also, I could see either 1w2 or 1w9. I guess it was just more muted in the video.
 

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That said I disagree with the "Average Joe" part - no tritype or type makes someone average or different. thats some perc myth. :p
Yeah, I... can't think of how to argue for a 3-fix right now, but whatever the heart fix is, not seeing yourself as an average Joe is not the best reason to not consider certain types. Although a 4/4-fixer is probably the least likely to consider themselves that way, I think any of the heart types can balk at the idea for example.
 

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Yeah, I... can't think of how to argue for a 3-fix right now, but whatever the heart fix is, not seeing yourself as an average Joe is not the best reason to not consider certain types. Although a 4/4-fixer is probably the least likely to consider themselves that way, I think any of the heart types can balk at the idea for example.
Exactly.. no 3w4 fixer especially would consider himself the average joe. Many 3's are all about .. their unique powerful image.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@Chipps do you see any 6w5 in this video?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi @Hybrid Shark Wolf, may I ask you why you think 4w3 is not your core type?
Do you sense 4w3 from my questionnaire?

I don't have a strong awareness of how people should watch me, but I do have a strong 4w3 fix :)

Like, for example, 4w3s have an extreme awareness of how others perceive them and how they project their image. I am not like that at all.
 

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Do you sense 4w3 from my questionnaire?

I don't have a strong awareness of how people should watch me, but I do have a strong 4w3 fix :)

Like, for example, 4w3s have an extreme awareness of how others perceive them and how they project their image. I am not like that at all.
Yes, 4w3 is the first thing I noticed in you. The first part of the video is very 4ish and I must confess I stopped it after a few minutes thinking I knew your type (4w3, 451 tritype), social instinct. Later I watched the rest of the video and I heard you talking about trust, your relationship to authority, etc. and I got confused :) then I read you were sure to be a head type, so, by now, I do not know. It requires more analysis.

Can I ask you what types feel the most alien to you? (you may have 0, 1, 2 or 3 enneatypes in this category)

EDIT: yes, 4s are self-conscious and if not, they are self-aware. So, basically, if you are not like that, 4 is not your core type.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes, 4w3 is the first thing I noticed in you. The first part of the video is very 4ish and I must confess I stopped it after a few minutes thinking I knew your type (4w3, 451 tritype), social instinct. Later I watched the rest of the video and I heard you talking about trust, your relationship to authority, etc. and I got confused :) then I read you were sure to be a head type, so, by now, I do not know. It requires more analysis.

Can I ask you what types feel the most alien to you? (you may have 0, 1, 2 or 3 enneatypes in this category)

EDIT: yes, 4s are self-conscious and if not, they are self-aware. So, basically, if you are not like that, 4 is not your core type.
Right now I am more connected to 6 or with 1. :)
 
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