The way I see it, "self-growth" only applies to the way you adapt in relationships, which is also why it's better to be alone and build various skills, imo. Lol.
Views on “Self-Growth” — all types welcome
I was talking to my husband last week about his views on self-growth. I was looking for a pattern in type, but my working conclusion is that these views are more values-related and likely more self-awareness related. I wondered if it was also generation-related and I’m still looking at all this for patterns, but very willing to think there is no discernible pattern— meaning it is too complex to ascribe to any area of culture, nurture, or MBTI type.
I was telling him about an INFP years ago describing a break-up, saying “I think we both need to do some self-growth and then come back together, so we aren’t hurting each other so much.”
And another INFP saying they broke up with someone because they cared more about self-growth than their partner did.
Since my husband never talks about self-growth and since it had kind of floored me how different people’s view of self-growth could be, I was trying to understand what I saw as a potential pattern.
I told my husband that I think of self-growth as being done for the purpose of hopefully making yourself easier to live with and that you need the challenge of the other person being with you to pin-point what would make you easier to live with. I don’t think you can do it alone, actually. Or without a mind towards the other.
I said I don’t think I would label going apart from someone to learn French or to read psychology or something as self-growth. I think you can definitely build skills like playing the piano and that is a sometimes lonely skill-building, but with the purpose of performing for others and collaborating, then I see it as growth. Of course I do have very solitary things like writing poems as skill-building, but I think I only call this self-growth if I can take it back to other people. Otherwise, it’s just me doing my thing for self-entertainment. I guess self-challenge, but to find out where I can really grow, it takes a teacher or others to let you know where you need to grow— for them. For others. So I never use the term “self-growth” unless I’m thinking of how it is to live with me or listen to my music performances or read one of my poems. Lol
My husband said “I also find it strange to use that term to go be alone.” Then he said “I think real self-growth is different for each person, but you know if your sister (INFP) said she was leaving a job for self-growth, it would really be because she was running away from her responsibilities?” And then he said “You know how my friend X (a very non-functional ENTP who lives with parents in his 40’s because he needs the structure desperately) will say all of a sudden that he will take out a huge loan and go to college, which sounds like the answer for his progression and he says it’s for self-growth, but really it’s probably going to be the same thing— it’s likely the loan that he sees as an answer. It will just add to his pile of school-debt. He has done this before and dropped out of school and used many loans.
So that was interesting. it’s true that the idea of “self-growth” can be used to be irresponsible and to run from the real challenge. And facing the real challenge would mean the greater self-growth in these cases.
I want to know what “self-growth” really means to different people, and also how “self-growth” is being viewed by current culture. I’m especially wondering how the term is being viewed now, since I’m sure this was not really the same idea or even an idea in my parent’s lives. I’ve heard it said that looking at a partner as a source for self-growth started with Gen X.
I was telling him about an INFP years ago describing a break-up, saying “I think we both need to do some self-growth and then come back together, so we aren’t hurting each other so much.”
And another INFP saying they broke up with someone because they cared more about self-growth than their partner did.
Since my husband never talks about self-growth and since it had kind of floored me how different people’s view of self-growth could be, I was trying to understand what I saw as a potential pattern.
I told my husband that I think of self-growth as being done for the purpose of hopefully making yourself easier to live with and that you need the challenge of the other person being with you to pin-point what would make you easier to live with. I don’t think you can do it alone, actually. Or without a mind towards the other.
I said I don’t think I would label going apart from someone to learn French or to read psychology or something as self-growth. I think you can definitely build skills like playing the piano and that is a sometimes lonely skill-building, but with the purpose of performing for others and collaborating, then I see it as growth. Of course I do have very solitary things like writing poems as skill-building, but I think I only call this self-growth if I can take it back to other people. Otherwise, it’s just me doing my thing for self-entertainment. I guess self-challenge, but to find out where I can really grow, it takes a teacher or others to let you know where you need to grow— for them. For others. So I never use the term “self-growth” unless I’m thinking of how it is to live with me or listen to my music performances or read one of my poems. Lol
My husband said “I also find it strange to use that term to go be alone.” Then he said “I think real self-growth is different for each person, but you know if your sister (INFP) said she was leaving a job for self-growth, it would really be because she was running away from her responsibilities?” And then he said “You know how my friend X (a very non-functional ENTP who lives with parents in his 40’s because he needs the structure desperately) will say all of a sudden that he will take out a huge loan and go to college, which sounds like the answer for his progression and he says it’s for self-growth, but really it’s probably going to be the same thing— it’s likely the loan that he sees as an answer. It will just add to his pile of school-debt. He has done this before and dropped out of school and used many loans.
So that was interesting. it’s true that the idea of “self-growth” can be used to be irresponsible and to run from the real challenge. And facing the real challenge would mean the greater self-growth in these cases.
I want to know what “self-growth” really means to different people, and also how “self-growth” is being viewed by current culture. I’m especially wondering how the term is being viewed now, since I’m sure this was not really the same idea or even an idea in my parent’s lives. I’ve heard it said that looking at a partner as a source for self-growth started with Gen X.
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The bible has this idea of shalom, or everything as it ought to be. Not how it was, not how it is, not how it could be, but how it ought to be. It is similar to the Native American concept of taking a piece of wood and removing from it the things that cover up what is truly is inside, a bear or a hawk or whatever the artist carves it into because that's what they saw in that piece of wood. I view self-growth as moving towards that. I don't view it as perfect or perfectionism, but more as complete, whole, a sense of "as I ought to be". I think everyone will define that differently, and it may change by season or time, with some things remaining constant.
Examples. I took my current job in part because it is fairly administrative, which I am very bad at--I forget things constantly and lost my house-key so many times as a kid that my parents gave me a neon yellow rope and key chain to attach it to, which I then spun around like a sling and launched high into the air all the time, but didn't lose. I also learned countless ways to break into my own home. I'm not good at administrative things. I know stuff and think about tomorrow. I don't remember yesterday, and I'm not sure I want to except in the context of today and the future. It's how I am.
I agreed to run the Reno-Tahoe Odyssey race with some friends because running made my knee hurt terribly after about a mile and this would force me to face that problem and figure it out, which I did. Now I love running.
I agreed to run the Tahoe Beast for similar reasons, mostly just to challenge myself and do something really hard. Builds grit. Grit is good.
I have friends I can be completely honest with because I want to be my whole, authentic self and they help point out things I can't see about myself, good and bad. I grow through those relationships, and I also get to encourage, love and help them grow. We sharpen each other. This is why in community group I don't lie or hold back. I am who I am right now, and I know that without acknowledging and confront that I will never become who I can become.
Ennegram and all of this stuff. Self-growth so I can better understand myself and how I interact with my self / environment / others, which will help me to be better at it and have better, richer relationships and so-on. Same thing really for reading books. I read a book on forgiveness because I was having a forgiveness problem, but I was truly unlocked from that with the simple message of the cross. I think I needed to walk myself through it, see that not fully work, and then be forced to drop it at the cross. What I did gain were useful ways to in the moment deal with wrongs and hurts to prevent build-up and address things now and move on healthily. I read a book about marriage recently to help enrich my marriage. I've read books on raising kids for the same reason. On and on. I'm constantly learning, and this is often for others or to be used in the context of others.
The self-growth that is more me-centered builds a tougher, more resilient and authentic me and the benefit is that it carries into every aspect of my life. I am more willing to take on difficult tasks, act with integrity, be gracious and patient and compassionate towards others and on and on. It builds out the complete person. I guess the backbone of my life is self-growth. It is not what I live for, but it is what I do to live well.
Examples. I took my current job in part because it is fairly administrative, which I am very bad at--I forget things constantly and lost my house-key so many times as a kid that my parents gave me a neon yellow rope and key chain to attach it to, which I then spun around like a sling and launched high into the air all the time, but didn't lose. I also learned countless ways to break into my own home. I'm not good at administrative things. I know stuff and think about tomorrow. I don't remember yesterday, and I'm not sure I want to except in the context of today and the future. It's how I am.
I agreed to run the Reno-Tahoe Odyssey race with some friends because running made my knee hurt terribly after about a mile and this would force me to face that problem and figure it out, which I did. Now I love running.
I agreed to run the Tahoe Beast for similar reasons, mostly just to challenge myself and do something really hard. Builds grit. Grit is good.
I have friends I can be completely honest with because I want to be my whole, authentic self and they help point out things I can't see about myself, good and bad. I grow through those relationships, and I also get to encourage, love and help them grow. We sharpen each other. This is why in community group I don't lie or hold back. I am who I am right now, and I know that without acknowledging and confront that I will never become who I can become.
Ennegram and all of this stuff. Self-growth so I can better understand myself and how I interact with my self / environment / others, which will help me to be better at it and have better, richer relationships and so-on. Same thing really for reading books. I read a book on forgiveness because I was having a forgiveness problem, but I was truly unlocked from that with the simple message of the cross. I think I needed to walk myself through it, see that not fully work, and then be forced to drop it at the cross. What I did gain were useful ways to in the moment deal with wrongs and hurts to prevent build-up and address things now and move on healthily. I read a book about marriage recently to help enrich my marriage. I've read books on raising kids for the same reason. On and on. I'm constantly learning, and this is often for others or to be used in the context of others.
The self-growth that is more me-centered builds a tougher, more resilient and authentic me and the benefit is that it carries into every aspect of my life. I am more willing to take on difficult tasks, act with integrity, be gracious and patient and compassionate towards others and on and on. It builds out the complete person. I guess the backbone of my life is self-growth. It is not what I live for, but it is what I do to live well.
I was torn between helpful, like, smile and haha.The way I see it, "self-growth" only applies to the way you adapt in relationships, which is also why it's better to be alone and build various skills, imo. Lol.
. I also see self growth as adapting with, alongside or to your chosen person or persons and building just any skills as being something separate.
I think you basically found the difference: there's a pattern in type, values, and self-awareness. (All those are related anyway.)I was looking for a pattern in type, but my working conclusion is that these views are more values-related and likely more self-awareness related.
People define growth differently. What is growth? An infp would probably mention something related to their Fi or their Te (or their Si or Ne). That is what they consider very often, and so their goals would likely be aligned with that.
And what you set as a goal might be aligned with one's values. And what one values can be different than what other people value. So someone's self-growth will not be valued by you. Someone could go to school again and learn something new and now has a higher paying job, one clap. Someone becomes more emotionally resilient so they can comfort the people around them, three claps from me. I value a generous attitude.
I am glad you brought up the images of the wood carvings versus perfection. I often use the term self-actualization, but the example says it better and makes it mean more.The bible has this idea of shalom, or everything as it ought to be. Not how it was, not how it is, not how it could be, but how it ought to be. It is similar to the Native American concept of taking a piece of wood and removing from it the things that cover up what is truly is inside, a bear or a hawk or whatever the artist carves it into because that's what they saw in that piece of wood. I view self-growth as moving towards that. I don't view it as perfect or perfectionism, but more as complete, whole, a sense of "as I ought to be". I think everyone will define that differently, and it may change by season or time, with some things remaining constant.
Examples. I took my current job in part because it is fairly administrative, which I am very bad at--I forget things constantly and lost my house-key so many times as a kid that my parents gave me a neon yellow rope and key chain to attach it to, which I then spun around like a sling and launched high into the air all the time, but didn't lose. I also learned countless ways to break into my own home. I'm not good at administrative things. I know stuff and think about tomorrow. I don't remember yesterday, and I'm not sure I want to except in the context of today and the future. It's how I am.
I agreed to run the Reno-Tahoe Odyssey race with some friends because running made my knee hurt terribly after about a mile and this would force me to face that problem and figure it out, which I did. Now I love running.
I agreed to run the Tahoe Beast for similar reasons, mostly just to challenge myself and do something really hard. Builds grit. Grit is good.
I have friends I can be completely honest with because I want to be my whole, authentic self and they help point out things I can't see about myself, good and bad. I grow through those relationships, and I also get to encourage, love and help them grow. We sharpen each other. This is why in community group I don't lie or hold back. I am who I am right now, and I know that without acknowledging and confront that I will never become who I can become.
Ennegram and all of this stuff. Self-growth so I can better understand myself and how I interact with my self / environment / others, which will help me to be better at it and have better, richer relationships and so-on. Same thing really for reading books. I read a book on forgiveness because I was having a forgiveness problem, but I was truly unlocked from that with the simple message of the cross. I think I needed to walk myself through it, see that not fully work, and then be forced to drop it at the cross. What I did gain were useful ways to in the moment deal with wrongs and hurts to prevent build-up and address things now and move on healthily. I read a book about marriage recently to help enrich my marriage. I've read books on raising kids for the same reason. On and on. I'm constantly learning, and this is often for others or to be used in the context of others.
The self-growth that is more me-centered builds a tougher, more resilient and authentic me and the benefit is that it carries into every aspect of my life. I am more willing to take on difficult tasks, act with integrity, be gracious and patient and compassionate towards others and on and on. It builds out the complete person. I guess the backbone of my life is self-growth. It is not what I live for, but it is what I do to live well.
I realized as you talked about going into that run with a hurt knee some things about individuality. You were saying skills on your own build grit. Maybe in my OP, the people who were being left because there was a view that they weren’t doing self-growth might be people who really do need to do some self-growth by becoming more aware of their own feelings. But I think the pressure to become self-aware would most likely come from loved-ones.
Thanks.I am glad you brought up the images of the wood carvings versus perfection. I often use the term self-actualization, but the example says it better and makes it mean more.
I realized as you talked about going into that run with a hurt knee some things about individuality. You were saying skills on your own build grit. Maybe in my OP, the people who were being left because there was a view that they weren’t doing self-growth might be people who really do need to do some self-growth by becoming more aware of their own feelings. But I think the pressure to become self-aware would most likely come from loved-ones.
I do think that there is a pressure that is exerted to show a need, reason to push for something. It can be from failure, inability to contribute, to not contribute well, etc. This can be in terms of the group or self. I failed to catch any fish, so I'm hungry. I didn't do my task correctly, so I am re-doing it while everyone else has gone home / is at recess, etc. Or I dropped the ball and the runner scored, so my team lost by one run. I think there are many triggers for growth. I am limited by not being able to run, so I would like to overcome that.
I will say it doesn't always work. I've tried with heights and had some success, not much. I'm still terrified, but I can at least stand and not collapse from uncontrollable shaking and be unable to stand. Needles was less successful. I still become dizzy and faint even though they don't consciously bother me. I suppose we adapt for what we can't outright overcome / control.
I feel like I’ve got to state this somewhere. I didn’t think this fit so well, but here is the kind of person that maybe the INFPs in the first OP were discussing.
I’m reading a novel right now written about a character who doesn’t know their own feelings, isn’t able to be honest about what they are doing, who justifies that it is logical to hang back and let other people fix things and let others “figure things out”. Like that they decided to get engaged to someone else while still being engaged to the first person. AND the AUTHOR also thinks this is logical (and that their main character is completely justified and wonderful and sweet) to let the guy figure it out which is “letting them off easy”. The author criticizes anyone else in the story for not telling the main character EVERYTHING, including gossip. She calls it “hiding the truth”. In real life, almost everyone would turn on this character and she seems completely unaware of this— but subconsciously maybe that’s why she is kind of making a new life with someone she hardly knows, who thinks she is hot and doesn’t take anything she does very seriously. She justifies not knowing her own feelings by saying “This man is the only man I ever knew in charge of his own destiny.” Too bad she doesn’t think she has any responsibility when it comes to her own destiny and that of others. It’s very interesting. Okay… had to put that in somewhere…. This is someone who doesn’t want to confront the immorality, laziness and shallowness of their own decisions. I wonder where it will go. It’s Born of Persuasion, the first of 4 books— if she becomes self-aware, I will be applauding!
I’m reading a novel right now written about a character who doesn’t know their own feelings, isn’t able to be honest about what they are doing, who justifies that it is logical to hang back and let other people fix things and let others “figure things out”. Like that they decided to get engaged to someone else while still being engaged to the first person. AND the AUTHOR also thinks this is logical (and that their main character is completely justified and wonderful and sweet) to let the guy figure it out which is “letting them off easy”. The author criticizes anyone else in the story for not telling the main character EVERYTHING, including gossip. She calls it “hiding the truth”. In real life, almost everyone would turn on this character and she seems completely unaware of this— but subconsciously maybe that’s why she is kind of making a new life with someone she hardly knows, who thinks she is hot and doesn’t take anything she does very seriously. She justifies not knowing her own feelings by saying “This man is the only man I ever knew in charge of his own destiny.” Too bad she doesn’t think she has any responsibility when it comes to her own destiny and that of others. It’s very interesting. Okay… had to put that in somewhere…. This is someone who doesn’t want to confront the immorality, laziness and shallowness of their own decisions. I wonder where it will go. It’s Born of Persuasion, the first of 4 books— if she becomes self-aware, I will be applauding!
Emotional resiliency seems like a newer term or area of thought as well— but a needed one—with the mental health/ emotional health crisis now. We probably need more role-models for emotional resiliency than ever.I think you basically found the difference: there's a pattern in type, values, and self-awareness. (All those are related anyway.)
People define growth differently. What is growth? An infp would probably mention something related to their Fi or their Te (or their Si or Ne). That is what they consider very often, and so their goals would likely be aligned with that.
And what you set as a goal might be aligned with one's values. And what one values can be different than what other people value. So someone's self-growth will not be valued by you. Someone could go to school again and learn something new and now has a higher paying job, one clap. Someone becomes more emotionally resilient so they can comfort the people around them, three claps from me. I value a generous attitude.
If you mean Gen X the 90s then yeah. Everything was extreme. Self growth means to me, "I came, I saw, I conquered/understood and moved on."
Idk, feeling a lot of things right now.
Idk, feeling a lot of things right now.
When you can put more feelings into thoughts, I will be interested.If you mean Gen X the 90s then yeah. Everything was extreme. Self growth means to me, "I came, I saw, I conquered/understood and moved on."
Idk, feeling a lot of things right now.
I feel that way a lot. Even if it's catching a fly. "Ha! I did it!" 🤣 I used to be good at it, but my old self is slow...but smart. I've figured it out again. With summer coming I'll be able to practice a lot. I've done a million things just to prove I could, or just to understand and move on or even just because I never have before. You don't know what you don't know.If you mean Gen X the 90s then yeah. Everything was extreme. Self growth means to me, "I came, I saw, I conquered/understood and moved on."
Idk, feeling a lot of things right now.
Running away or quitting something isn't always against self-growth.
Sometimes self-growth can be learning boundaries--leaving a shitty or abusive job or relationship. Sometimes it can be um...trying something new (like a loan--but I generally consider loans dangerous tbh--I wouldn't personally associate it with self-growth, at the same time I'm sure there are plenty of businessmen who started a winning business with a loan so who am I to say?)
I think that really, life is about balance.
So growth is facilitated when an organism is strong or able to heal.
And so imagine--if you are an organism and you have an excess of salt in your system--"self growth" or being capable of healthy functioning and thus healthy growth might mean taking in an excess of fresh water and clearing the salt out.
That being said, say you are an organism with a lack of salt in the system? A bit of salt and other electrolytes could help you function better and suddenly you're able to do much more and feel much better with that little extra salt.
So to me it's all about balance and what you need.
We can not always know what we need--we can be wrong and think we need salt when we need fresh water. Happens all the time. Also happens though, that we see someone else who is sturggling and we think they need salt just because we once did, and really--they do not need salt. They need something completely different.
I am a firm believer that people are better capable of knowing themselves than anyone else, but there are times when people are wrong about their needs. There are also times when we are wrong about other people's needs.
And so self growth always depends on what is needed. It is a case by case sort of evaluation. But in general, listening to or examining someone's needs or problems can help to identify what areas will help them grow. And often times people have more insight into what they need to grow than a bystandar. Because we are default ignorant about other people without taking the time to really focus on them and learn what is good for them.
So I don't really agree with your husband, even if he may be right sometimes. But if he's right then it's worth it to mention the idea (not that the person is wrong--that can cause defensiveness) but to mention the idea that someone should stick with something longer if they tend to go for new loans. Or that someone should stay at a job if they have a habit of always leaving them. Then they are learning a new skill--staying at a job and compromising, but only if they have the habit of bailing.
At the same time, sometimes we don't need to grow in one area. Like I'm sure we could all "grow" in an area we don't need to. We will never be able to be perfect at everything. So it's also important for one to consider what areas they really need to improve vs. what areas they "could."
Sometimes self-growth can be learning boundaries--leaving a shitty or abusive job or relationship. Sometimes it can be um...trying something new (like a loan--but I generally consider loans dangerous tbh--I wouldn't personally associate it with self-growth, at the same time I'm sure there are plenty of businessmen who started a winning business with a loan so who am I to say?)
I think that really, life is about balance.
So growth is facilitated when an organism is strong or able to heal.
And so imagine--if you are an organism and you have an excess of salt in your system--"self growth" or being capable of healthy functioning and thus healthy growth might mean taking in an excess of fresh water and clearing the salt out.
That being said, say you are an organism with a lack of salt in the system? A bit of salt and other electrolytes could help you function better and suddenly you're able to do much more and feel much better with that little extra salt.
So to me it's all about balance and what you need.
We can not always know what we need--we can be wrong and think we need salt when we need fresh water. Happens all the time. Also happens though, that we see someone else who is sturggling and we think they need salt just because we once did, and really--they do not need salt. They need something completely different.
I am a firm believer that people are better capable of knowing themselves than anyone else, but there are times when people are wrong about their needs. There are also times when we are wrong about other people's needs.
And so self growth always depends on what is needed. It is a case by case sort of evaluation. But in general, listening to or examining someone's needs or problems can help to identify what areas will help them grow. And often times people have more insight into what they need to grow than a bystandar. Because we are default ignorant about other people without taking the time to really focus on them and learn what is good for them.
So I don't really agree with your husband, even if he may be right sometimes. But if he's right then it's worth it to mention the idea (not that the person is wrong--that can cause defensiveness) but to mention the idea that someone should stick with something longer if they tend to go for new loans. Or that someone should stay at a job if they have a habit of always leaving them. Then they are learning a new skill--staying at a job and compromising, but only if they have the habit of bailing.
At the same time, sometimes we don't need to grow in one area. Like I'm sure we could all "grow" in an area we don't need to. We will never be able to be perfect at everything. So it's also important for one to consider what areas they really need to improve vs. what areas they "could."
Disclaimers: I’m not saying you must stay together with someone who you really don’t want for various reasons and I’m not saying you should break up either.
I’m also not saying that you can’t be single and still become a better person—but I think the other people who you live with kind of direct the way that you grow and I also think, when single, usually the purpose for the term “self-growth” is about growth for others in our lives. Most of us have family to put our hearts into or the human race in general who we want to give something creative to. But this all might just be me and the fact that I have experienced that this idea/term was not around when I was young at all and people seem to think more about it now than they did in my generation growing up.
I’m also not saying that you can’t be single and still become a better person—but I think the other people who you live with kind of direct the way that you grow and I also think, when single, usually the purpose for the term “self-growth” is about growth for others in our lives. Most of us have family to put our hearts into or the human race in general who we want to give something creative to. But this all might just be me and the fact that I have experienced that this idea/term was not around when I was young at all and people seem to think more about it now than they did in my generation growing up.
The individuals discussed, we love them and know them very well. That really was just his interesting answer— that some people can hide behind a guise of self-growth when really they are running—- sometimes people need to run and their healing might come later if that point is rock-bottom, I’d say. Actually I was just about to tell you how much you sounded like my husband at the beginning NF of your post, because his point was that self-growth is a case by case.Running away or quitting something isn't always against self-growth.
Sometimes self-growth can be learning boundaries--leaving a shitty or abusive job or relationship. Sometimes it can be um...trying something new (like a loan--but I generally consider loans dangerous tbh--I wouldn't personally associate it with self-growth, at the same time I'm sure there are plenty of businessmen who started a winning business with a loan so who am I to say?)
I think that really, life is about balance.
So growth is facilitated when an organism is strong or able to heal.
And so imagine--if you are an organism and you have an excess of salt in your system--"self growth" or being capable of healthy functioning and thus healthy growth might mean taking in an excess of fresh water and clearing the salt out.
That being said, say you are an organism with a lack of salt in the system? A bit of salt and other electrolytes could help you function better and suddenly you're able to do much more and feel much better with that little extra salt.
So to me it's all about balance and what you need.
We can not always know what we need--we can be wrong and think we need salt when we need fresh water. Happens all the time. Also happens though, that we see someone else who is sturggling and we think they need salt just because we once did, and really--they do not need salt. They need something completely different.
I am a firm believer that people are better capable of knowing themselves than anyone else, but there are times when people are wrong about their needs. There are also times when we are wrong about other people's needs.
And so self growth always depends on what is needed. It is a case by case sort of evaluation. But in general, listening to or examining someone's needs or problems can help to identify what areas will help them grow. And often times people have more insight into what they need to grow than a bystandar. Because we are default ignorant about other people without taking the time to really focus on them and learn what is good for them.
So I don't really agree with your husband, even if he may be right sometimes. But if he's right then it's worth it to mention the idea (not that the person is wrong--that can cause defensiveness) but to mention the idea that someone should stick with something longer if they tend to go for new loans. Or that someone should stay at a job if they have a habit of always leaving them. Then they are learning a new skill--staying at a job and compromising, but only if they have the habit of bailing.
At the same time, sometimes we don't need to grow in one area. Like I'm sure we could all "grow" in an area we don't need to. We will never be able to be perfect at everything. So it's also important for one to consider what areas they really need to improve vs. what areas they "could."
Sometimes we all give in to what anxieties we have and in many situations that means we hurt the ones who Love us.
Maybe some people aren’t ready to grow with someone else yet— I can see that. A person at that level of emotional health is probably why my husband brought these two up— they are at a level of health that causes a lot of damage. I would think that working towards being a person who could be with someone else without hurting them would be self-growth. And are there people who probably could continue to be in a relationship but leave because they aren’t ready for it in other ways or think they aren’t ready? Or for some reason it’s just easier to be alone?
Right now… although maybe we haven’t covered every angle—- I usually think self-growth (the term) as best accomplished inside of a relationship, but there are individuals who I wouldn’t recommend anyone being with. There are probably people who are at their worst in a relationship, true.
There are many sides to all this, I’m seeing, the more we all discuss and bring up individual cases.
@WickerDeer I understand your concern, but there is more info to know. I think my sister knows now that she flees jobs in a panic when she feels too depended on? She at least knows she should stick with her current job for her boyfriend’s sake. He is past being able to tolerate more time of her just drifting without a job. She has left job after job for school and certificates but she doesn’t usually do the last things to finish (like getting a graphic’s design degree almost and never putting together a portfolio or never taking that final class and then deciding all of it is useless— she did the same with 2 other degrees). The main thing with her is that she wants to feel like she can leave at any moment— people or jobs— and so if she is depended on or given extra responsibility she will call me with an absolute meltdown. Last year she was offered a managerial position that she told me they should have offered a lot time ago. She called in an absolute pit of despair and quit that day despite everyone’s urging that she had wanted this for a while. You know… that kind of stuff. All of a sudden, I am freaking out. Are you my sister? I hope not! But she is a n amazing writer herself! PM me and if you are my sister then you are justified in being mad. PerC is kind of anonymous? If you are her… I still absolutely love your writing and want to recruit you to write a modern fairytale and publish it in an anthology with Ai and I and my actual two sisters. It will happen easily! I have publisher friends. Don’t be too mad—- I don’t think anyone on here would know her. I will edit this soon!
I think the problem is the term "self growth" as it's so broad and vague... What were you like before and what are you trying to "grow" into?I was talking to my husband last week about his views on self-growth. I was looking for a pattern in type, but my working conclusion is that these views are more values-related and likely more self-awareness related. I wondered if it was also generation-related and I’m still looking at all this for patterns, but very willing to think there is no discernible pattern— meaning it is too complex to ascribe to any area of culture, nurture, or MBTI type.
I was telling him about an INFP years ago describing a break-up, saying “I think we both need to do some self-growth and then come back together, so we aren’t hurting each other so much.”
And another INFP saying they broke up with someone because they cared more about self-growth than their partner did.
Since my husband never talks about self-growth and since it had kind of floored me how different people’s view of self-growth could be, I was trying to understand what I saw as a potential pattern.
I told my husband that I think of self-growth as being done for the purpose of hopefully making yourself easier to live with and that you need the challenge of the other person being with you to pin-point what would make you easier to live with. I don’t think you can do it alone, actually. Or without a mind towards the other.
I said I don’t think I would label going apart from someone to learn French or to read psychology or something as self-growth. I think you can definitely build skills like playing the piano and that is a sometimes lonely skill-building, but with the purpose of performing for others and collaborating, then I see it as growth. Of course I do have very solitary things like writing poems as skill-building, but I think I only call this self-growth if I can take it back to other people. Otherwise, it’s just me doing my thing for self-entertainment. I guess self-challenge, but to find out where I can really grow, it takes a teacher or others to let you know where you need to grow— for them. For others. So I never use the term “self-growth” unless I’m thinking of how it is to live with me or listen to my music performances or read one of my poems. Lol
My husband said “I also find it strange to use that term to go be alone.” Then he said “I think real self-growth is different for each person, but you know if your sister (INFP) said she was leaving a job for self-growth, it would really be because she was running away from her responsibilities?” And then he said “You know how my friend X (a very non-functional ENTP who lives with parents in his 40’s because he needs the structure desperately) will say all of a sudden that he will take out a huge loan and go to college, which sounds like the answer for his progression and he says it’s for self-growth, but really it’s probably going to be the same thing— it’s likely the loan that he sees as an answer. It will just add to his pile of school-debt. He has done this before and dropped out of school and used many loans.
So that was interesting. it’s true that the idea of “self-growth” can be used to be irresponsible and to run from the real challenge. And facing the real challenge would mean the greater self-growth in these cases.
I want to know what “self-growth” really means to different people, and also how “self-growth” is being viewed by current culture. I’m especially wondering how the term is being viewed now, since I’m sure this was not really the same idea or even an idea in my parent’s lives. I’ve heard it said that looking at a partner as a source for self-growth started with Gen X.
Especially when u extend this to a partner, what even is "self growth" in a partner? How much of this is just you being unhappy with your partner and wanting them to change but coined under "self growth" expectations for your partner for example?
This quote for example “I think we both need to do some self-growth and then come back together, so we aren’t hurting each other so much.”
What if my partner and I were not hurting each other and happy with one another? Then are we not "self growing"? Like if I pick a like minded partner, we'll probably just be happy with each other and never need to do any self growth and be fine together or I can pick the inverse/opposite to myself so we're essentially forced to "self grow" to even understand, communicate and be able to work together since it would be so difficult during the outset...
Similarly, this quote here "I told my husband that I think of self-growth as being done for the purpose of hopefully making yourself easier to live with and that you need the challenge of the other person being with you to pin-point what would make you easier to live with. I don’t think you can do it alone, actually. Or without a mind towards the other."
What if I told you that u can find people who are more compatible with you off the shelf thus circumventing the need to do as much "self growth" than if u picked someone who you were less compatible with and required "self growth" to even be able to live together and tolerate each other?
"I said I don’t think I would label going apart from someone to learn French or to read psychology or something as self-growth." I mean if we're classifying that as "self growth" then literally anything u do is "self growth" lol... I drove to work today, I got better at driving coz more driving experience thus "self growth"... See how silly this is lol...
Heres what I think "self growth" means. Essentially, it's when theres a character/personality flaw within me thats causing me to not be able to get along with others like extreme narcissisms, self growth would be when I've identified the problem then went on a journey to correct/fix it, that to me is "self growth". Learning to play an instrument or being able to kick a rugby ball 10m further than yesterday can sound like "self growth" but it kinda dumbs down the term and makes it lost meaning IMO.
Self growth- I guess I based it on the expectation that I put on myself . Course the term is subjective from person to person - but for my case it’s to continue to learn , expand my knowledge, take on responsibilities and doing as much as I can to help others with what I’ve already gotten and continue to live .
Ive created a journal where I update what i value /where I’m am in life every 5-10 years ( it’s suppose to be every 5 - but I’m forgetful ) I guess it’s a good way to see how much Ive grown or stayed the same .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ive created a journal where I update what i value /where I’m am in life every 5-10 years ( it’s suppose to be every 5 - but I’m forgetful ) I guess it’s a good way to see how much Ive grown or stayed the same .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not to be devils advocate for devils advocate sake but when you marry someone both of you change over time. There’s a funny quote I heard where a guy is like “my wife has been married to at least three different men. All of them me.” That’s how it is. We change and when we both change it can take some work to get back on track but you’re stronger and better for it.I think the problem is the term "self growth" as it's so broad and vague... What were you like before and what are you trying to "grow" into?
Especially when u extend this to a partner, what even is "self growth" in a partner? How much of this is just you being unhappy with your partner and wanting them to change but coined under "self growth" expectations for your partner for example?
This quote for example “I think we both need to do some self-growth and then come back together, so we aren’t hurting each other so much.”
What if my partner and I were not hurting each other and happy with one another? Then are we not "self growing"? Like if I pick a like minded partner, we'll probably just be happy with each other and never need to do any self growth and be fine together or I can pick the inverse/opposite to myself so we're essentially forced to "self grow" to even understand, communicate and be able to work together since it would be so difficult during the outset...
Similarly, this quote here "I told my husband that I think of self-growth as being done for the purpose of hopefully making yourself easier to live with and that you need the challenge of the other person being with you to pin-point what would make you easier to live with. I don’t think you can do it alone, actually. Or without a mind towards the other."
What if I told you that u can find people who are more compatible with you off the shelf thus circumventing the need to do as much "self growth" than if u picked someone who you were less compatible with and required "self growth" to even be able to live together and tolerate each other?
"I said I don’t think I would label going apart from someone to learn French or to read psychology or something as self-growth." I mean if we're classifying that as "self growth" then literally anything u do is "self growth" lol... I drove to work today, I got better at driving coz more driving experience thus "self growth"... See how silly this is lol...
Heres what I think "self growth" means. Essentially, it's when theres a character/personality flaw within me thats causing me to not be able to get along with others like extreme narcissisms, self growth would be when I've identified the problem then went on a journey to correct/fix it, that to me is "self growth". Learning to play an instrument or being able to kick a rugby ball 10m further than yesterday can sound like "self growth" but it kinda dumbs down the term and makes it lost meaning IMO.
So what is your definition of self growth in this case, to grow into whats compatible with what your partner changes into?Not to be devils advocate for devils advocate sake but when you marry someone both of you change over time. There’s a funny quote I heard where a guy is like “my wife has been married to at least three different men. All of them me.” That’s how it is. We change and when we both change it can take some work to get back on track but you’re stronger and better for it.
I think self-growth would describe your side of the mutual growth you each commit to. Like working a project. We know the goal, the tasks and roles, executing my side of it could be adaptation or growth and vice versa.So what is your definition of self growth in this case, to grow into whats compatible with what your partner changes into?
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