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Discussion Starter #1
I've known this a while now, but never could find the answer.

Why is it that I do my best clear thinking and brainstorming when I'm out of my chair, walking around or doing some other mindless, physical activity?

It annoys me because I am usually not near a pen and pad to record my ideas when I'm walking around. When I'm sitting, my thinking doesn't come near the speed as when I'm standing. It's significantly sped up if pacing, but why?

Then if I think out loud, it gets even better... All of this is rather inefficient.

Any ideas?


Edit : I'm considering buying a big white board, eliminating all of my chairs and tables, and just working on my feet.
 
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When I'm writing I usually pace rapidly while dictating to someone on the computer who types it out for me. Personally, I like the co-dependence of it, but I'm sure there are plenty of ENTPs that wish to be more individualistic for one reason or another or just personal taste. However, I really enjoy seeing how those ideas translate especially since it shows me the parts of my writing that could potentially confuse people. I'm big on forming groups and using a couple people to get a task done, anybody else do that a lot?
 

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Walking allows for greater ability to concentrate because it minimizes the second conversation I think we have generally going on, that internal sort of "what am I going to say next?"

If you're walking on your own, then you're only having the one conversation with yourself. Normally, you're second line of thinking is talking to yourself, and the top layer paying attention to the conversation and doing the real talking.

If your with someone else, then I think your second (self talk) conversation goes away a little because walking takes only about half your normal focus. This leaves you with the going conversation, and some room left for paying attention.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
@bellisaurius

Interesting. Could you explain more about your theory? It sort of confused me.

@Noisey

Good idea! It's much too loud in my house to verbally dictate to software though.
 

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@bellisaurius

Interesting. Could you explain more about your theory? It sort of confused me.
I think we have three layers of thinking. The top layer is the one we use to talk to people. There's a layer that floats around below it that we're aware of. It's the one you hear when you're talking with other people, that's either planning on what you're going to say next, or is just commenting on what you have to say. It's fairly analogous to self talk. There's a third layer that does things like answer questions two weeks later ('Oh, that was the name to that song' is a frequent comment from it), but it's unconscious.

In a conversation, I often hear the second voice, and it often gets in the way of the first. Walking, I don't hear it as much, like it shuts off because I'm doing something else. On my own, doing nothing, the voice wanders too much. Walking focuses it a little.
 

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I think we have three layers of thinking. The top layer is the one we use to talk to people. There's a layer that floats around below it that we're aware of. It's the one you hear when you're talking with other people, that's either planning on what you're going to say next, or is just commenting on what you have to say. It's fairly analogous to self talk. There's a third layer that does things like answer questions two weeks later ('Oh, that was the name to that song' is a frequent comment from it), but it's unconscious.

In a conversation, I often hear the second voice, and it often gets in the way of the first. Walking, I don't hear it as much, like it shuts off because I'm doing something else. On my own, doing nothing, the voice wanders too much. Walking focuses it a little.
Interesting theory. I guess all there is to do is compensate for my learning style. It's funny - on Duck Tales, Scrooge McDuck had a designated room for pacing and thinking. He walked in circles, thus forming a dug-in trail eventually.

bin197410.JPG
 

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this thread made me aware of how much i dont walk during the day. I need to get my fat ass up and moving. I actually don a lot of thinking when im driving and in the shower...Driving is my one hidden passion in life, too bad i have a small shitty toyota. I have decorated it with BADASS stickers of skulls, wolves, and confederate flags. It is "sky blue" colored.

You should get a voice recorder or some shit, so when you are walking you dont have to stop to write.
 

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The ENTP in my life is the most comfortable standing when he gets into a deep conversation (maybe it allows for more space for large arm gestures haha). And I've noticed if he's on the phone, he's pacing around whatever room or building he's in- says it helps him think to pace around.

So, I wonder, is this a NT thing? Or just ENTP?

Interesting embodied cognition article:
Five Embodied Metaphors That Actually Foster Creative Thinking
 

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Discussion Starter #9
@TripleC

I do wonder, too, if it is an NT thing. I'm trying to garner more responses here - I'd like to know if it's just me or ENTP's, or everybody. I also pace when I'm on the phone - helps me think, quells anxiety. I can't sit and talk on the phone - I always inadvertently get up and move.

"3. Wander around, but not in a square
If you don't have a box handy, you might like to try just wandering around randomly, but whatever happens don't walk in a square.
The researchers found that people came up with more ideas when they wandered around randomly than when they walked in a square (or didn't walk at all)."


I see, this is interesting. However, my thinking improves no matter what shape I walk in.



"5. Imagine it
Too lazy to get a box or wander around randomly? Then this last study is for you. Here, test participants watched a Second Life avatar that was either wandering freely or walking in a square.
According to the results, this form of "psychological embodiment" worked, as well. Test subjects watching their freely wandering avatar came up with more unconventional ideas for gifts than those watching the square-walking avatar. This result is particularly interesting because it shows that the postures aren't as important as the state of mind that they encourage. The mere suggestion that someone might adopt these postures was enough to cue a more creative state of mind."


Suggests it is possible to replicate the acute state of mind by imagining walking around. Fascinating.




Excellent information! I'm glad you posted that link - will be testing these out.

Edit: Triple, what about you? Do you exhibit these oddities to think better?

@King_Moonracer

Yeah man I've thought about a voice rec before, but I don't like listening to myself over tape. Also it's complicated to explain to people in the house why I'm talking into an inanimate object.
 

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I've known this a while now, but never could find the answer.

Why is it that I do my best clear thinking and brainstorming when I'm out of my chair, walking around or doing some other mindless, physical activity?

It annoys me because I am usually not near a pen and pad to record my ideas when I'm walking around. When I'm sitting, my thinking doesn't come near the speed as when I'm standing. It's significantly sped up if pacing, but why?

Then if I think out loud, it gets even better... All of this is rather inefficient.

Any ideas?


Edit : I'm considering buying a big white board, eliminating all of my chairs and tables, and just working on my feet.
Extraverted Intuition depends on environment.
(Theory... ) So, I imagine it would help if the environment were "moving at a faster pace", not internal thoughts.
 

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Ahh yes. Apparently we walk really fast too.

This xSFJ girl was telling me how she had to trail our ENTP band director around for the day. She complained how he walked like "a million miles an hour"


But I do agree, I think brisk walking or some sort of movement puts Ne into overdrive. It's great!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
@Agent Blackout

How is it that we focus our intuition outward? In what way?

@rogue_mason

Yeah, definitely into overdrive for sure. I can dream up a whole story plot with intricacies in a matter of 30 minutes or less when I'm pacing, or cleaning a room. By the end of it, I've decided 60% of the story, changed things 100x over, and written none of it down yet.

I have to be careful with this otherwise none of my ideas come to life because when one is finished, another is already brimming. Unfortunately acting out ideas proves much more a difficult task than dreaming them.
 

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@chittychitty LightNING

It's tied to sense perceptions. Requires external input/expression.
In essence, our imagination is strongly linked to external reality, which is why it'll see multiple possibilities now.

Introverted Intuition can find possibilities, too. But it tends not to search external reality as much. It'll find one and then not compare to others. On the contrary, after finding one it'll just take the next step, and the next.
So Ni sees all the way down one path/sequence.

==========

Ne: "No point in going too far down each path because as you go along, more opportunities will arise ad we will need to adjust accordingly at each step (taking into account things that aren't in our control). So let's look at a few steps down multiple paths right now, since things get too complicated and decisions more uncertain/improbable down the line."

Ni: Best opportunity now. So it doesn't get compared to others (which would be presented from external reality... which this isn't tied to). This one opportunity gets continued down a string of best successive opportunities coming from the imagination.

============

Jung original work explains it best, though.

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
 

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I definitely pace when I'm thinking, or will go for a long walk/jog when I feel like I need to think something over. I figure it's because extroverts get energy from action/environment, and use this energy to stimulate their internal thinking processes.
 

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I actually do this too... I usually get more "AHA!" moments or connections or I'm able to understand something completely when I pace around and think about it. I clean or jog, it usually connects things together. To actually think sometimes I'll need to just sit with a pencil and paper and write it down exploring ideas thoughts etc. but once I get those thoughts down I'll need to go do something to really connect those ideas to my life or create new ideas. -shrugs- I'm a writer and so I think I get more creative ideas when I'm doing something and thinking. :)
maybe doing something puts certain chemicals in your brain which make it easier to concentrate...i dunno...
 

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I've known this a while now, but never could find the answer.

Why is it that I do my best clear thinking and brainstorming when I'm out of my chair, walking around or doing some other mindless, physical activity?

It annoys me because I am usually not near a pen and pad to record my ideas when I'm walking around. When I'm sitting, my thinking doesn't come near the speed as when I'm standing. It's significantly sped up if pacing, but why?

Then if I think out loud, it gets even better... All of this is rather inefficient.

Any ideas?


Edit : I'm considering buying a big white board, eliminating all of my chairs and tables, and just working on my feet.
Yes, yes, fucking everything.
 

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You sound likely to be a Kinesthetic learner like I am. Anything involving hands on or being active really helps me remember stuff.

Walking around, taking notes (even if I can't read them and never look at them again), and Whiteboarding are all ways I've found to help with learning. I've also bought a stress ball and play around with it when I need to think about something or brainstorm.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You sound likely to be a Kinesthetic learner like I am. Anything involving hands on or being active really helps me remember stuff.

Walking around, taking notes (even if I can't read them and never look at them again), and Whiteboarding are all ways I've found to help with learning. I've also bought a stress ball and play around with it when I need to think about something or brainstorm.

Interesting. Will be trying the stress ball - just ordered a whiteboard setup. Is it a jump to conclusion to think kinsthetic learners are sensors? Action definitely helps me understand a subject better. I don't know about neeeding to touch or pretending to in order to learn though.

I highly relate to writing notes I never read ever again. Any more tips are appreciated. Do you also find the need sometimes for examples of concepts to understand them fully?
 
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Interesting. Will be trying the stress ball - just ordered a whiteboard setup. Is it a jump to conclusion to think kinsthetic learners are sensors? Action definitely helps me understand a subject better. I don't know about neeeding to touch or pretending to in order to learn though.

I highly relate to writing notes I never read ever again. Any more tips are appreciated. Do you also find the need sometimes for examples of concepts to understand them fully?
I don't think Kinesthetic learning really has anything to do with being a sensor, but I used to assume that also. I know a lot of ENxPs that test high in Kinesthetic learning.

Yeah examples are usually helpful. Anything with practical attachment to it helps concepts and ideas stick.

Some other tips I use that you might find helpful:

I have a ton of brightly colored Post It notes that I stick to my whiteboards and desk. They stand out and I can move them where ever I need to.

Having the whiteboard near my desk helps me keep focused on what needs to be done. It's a visual reminder that keeps me on track instead of having my mind wander.

I alternate different color pens/highlighters when taking notes/reading. It helps my mind from getting bored and keeps my Ne working. Once I start to zone out I use a different color pen.

I use Evernote on my phone and computer to keep track of all the notes I take. It uploads them all into a central location, and having somewhere to write them down on the go helps a lot. It has a search function that lets you find what you're looking for easily. Also, it stores pictures, so I take snapshots of my whiteboards whenever I want to erase them and start something new.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
@Ambiguous

Excellent!! Def checking out Evernote. I took a learning style test and got from highest to lowest: social, visual & verbal tied, solitary & logical tied, physical, Aura.
 
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