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Discussion Starter #1
This began with me reading two books on introversion - during reading the first, I concluded that I'm definitely an introvert - and watching some Youtube videos on the same subject, mostly on channel 'psych2go', then I came across some videos about the Myers-Briggs types, one of the first was on INTJs, and I instantly recognized myself.

I took a test (humanmetrics), and got INTJ. High score (90's) on I, no surprise, but the other three were moderate, two almost dead center, I don't remember if it was T or J that was a bit higher (70's).

Later I took several of the INTJ or xxxx tests on IDR Labs, getting INTJ on several, but ISTJ in the low 70's on that one. However, these tests had many questions that I couldn't answer correctly, as either both/several alternatives seemed equally true, none seemed true, or the scenario was such that I neither had experienced it nor could imagine what I'd feel in it, or whatever the questions were.

Still later I took another type test on 16Personalities, and got INTP with a bit of overweight towards P (I think it was high 60's), I don't remember the other percentages.

So I'm confused, and now I'm going to confuse you - or hopefully not - with some meta-reasoning, or whatever I should call it: Can I have been subconciously manipulating my test results in one or several of the tests in order to get the INTJ result, as I'd like to be an INTJ, and am I doing the same when writing this post, and if so (either), wouldn't that be a Ni thing to do? Please disregard the fact that I want to be an INTJ when trying to type me, I prefer an inconvenient truth to a convenient lie everytime.

Between these different tests, I have been reading about some different types, and found INTJ to mostly describe me, closely followed by INTP, but also to a decent degree ISTJ and ISTP, as I'm pretty good with time, don't like change in some cases (when it's forced upon me, obviously), and having an "uncanny ability to troubleshoot and fix things".

A number of things about me to hopefully type me by:

I can usually understand how things work (mechanical, electronic, etc but also financial, logistic, etc although that is much harder) by studying them closely and visualizing them.

I can think in both pictures and words, and the pictures are usually a mixture of real and imagined, I can think of an electronic circuit and imagine the voltages and currents, although not as electrons or so, but... something. It's partially subconcious and I'm having trouble converting it first to pictures and then to words...

When thinking in words, i sometimes do so in English, despite being a native Swedish speaker.

I draw parallels between different fields - for example at work, a pneumatic valve broke, and I looked at what function it had in the simple application it was used, and said: This valve is the pneumatic equivalent of an S/R-latch. I hadn't and haven't studied pneumatics, and still have no idea what such a valve is really called, but I know what it does. For the record, I found a new one in our spare parts place and replaced it, and the machine worked. I also noticed that a boost converter and a hydraulic ram pump work the same way, although with electricity and water, respectively, and found it amusing that an electronics vlogger did the exact same comparison a few years later.

I quite often think: "It can't be that hard" when I'm faced with something new such as a programming language, a broken thing to repair, creating an electronic circuit to do a particular thing, etc, but I also often know when it really will be hard, often impossible, such as intermittent faults in electronics.

I value privacy extremely high, i hate surveillance both from governments and Internet companies such as Google and Facebook. (I'm not on Facebook) Other people probably think I'm paranoid, but I know what surveillance technology could do yesterday and what it can do today, and extrapolating what it will be able to do tomorrow isn't hard when thinking about how much information we give off. I don't want to be held accountable for my words of today in 30 years when the norms of society are vastly different and government probably quite totalitarian. I don't think I'm paranoid, I think most other people are naïve.

I often don't like change. I do feel nostalgia, I hate waste, and the new often includes new possibilities for surveillance, see point above. This, particularly the nostalgia, is one reason I doubt I'm INTJ, as I've read that it is typical not to be nostalgic. I didn't like the VHS to DVD switch (I still have my old VCR laying around), and I love old machinery that was built to last.

However I do like to improve things, especially when I can do so myself, and especially in combination with repairing them. (My weed whacker now has Li-ion batteries instead of the dead Ni-MH ones). I also like to construct and build new things, often but definitely not always from a practical need.

I deeply hate the purportedly "funny" videos that are on the Youtube frontpage now and then, of painful, extremely scary, dangerous and stupid "pranks", "fails" etc. Neither doing bad things to other people or laughing at them getting hurt or scared out of their minds is OK according to me. I read somewhere that this type of "physical humor" is correlated with the Se function - the inferior function of the INTJ (and INFJ)- which made me wonder if this could be a similar effect as with the findings of the experiments that showed that among homophobe people, the ones with the strongest opinions against homosexuality actually were the ones with the most physical arousal reaction to pictures of such nature. Maybe somewhere deep down in my mind, I'm laughing at the misery of the victims of pranksters and their own decisions, and hence I have to push that part of me down forcefully, as I find doing so immoral?

This will have to be all for today, as it's late here in Sweden, which also brings me to saying that Swedish culture is more introverted than American, which could of course also affect results. By Swedish measurments, (but maybe American too?) I have bragged extremely much here, but I wouldn't have done so if I didn't think it would help typing me. I'll probably write some more about myself the next time I log in here, which might be a few days.

Thanks in advance.
 

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You are doing a number of things wrong, most profoundly you are trying to type you based on type descriptions. That's not accurate at all. Matter in fact, that's probably the worst way to type yourself. It's true that certain behaviors are associated with certain types, but type theory is dealing with the evolution of your cognitive functions throughout your life. Hence, there are a lot of behaviors you can put on to compensate for your weakness, thus making you appear to cognitively process something like one type, but you are completely the other.

For example: A lot of ISTJ:s have a self-image of being "smart". In society, being "smart" can mean to talk in an big-picture, predictive and metaphorical way. Thus, I have mistyped a lot of ISTJ:s as INTJ:s (because they talk like intuitives) but later realized that their talking big-picture and metaphorical language is just a learned behaviour, they are struggling/working hard to talk like that, and their "flow" is when they recall events or sequences from the past (thus making them SJ, not NJ).

For the record, I really hate the word "smart" or "intelligence". It means absolutely everything and nothing. Just like Carl Jung wrote in his book: "A type-theory must be more subtle. It is not enough, for example, to speak of intelligence, for this is too general and too vague a concept."

"Wanting" to be an INTJ is wrong and means that you are putting a rank between the types, i.e., which one you think is "better" than others and the Mastermind (which is a completely incorrect title) appeals to you because then you can say that you're smarter than others. This is wrong, INTJ:s are not smarter than others, all INTJ:s are definitely not Masterminds (particularly not young and uneducated ones) just as all ENTJ:s are not Field Marshalls or Commanders. The right thing is that there are different types of intelligences, and different types are likely to display different gifts and excel at different things.

It's all about your functions and how they interact with eachother. You self-identify as an introverted type, meaning that you likely are an introverted type. I think you are likely one of the following types:

- ISTP
- INTP
- ISTJ (a little less likely than ISTP or INTP)

I cannot determine which one of INTP or ISTP suits you the best - your logical and hands-on "fixing things" way of interacting is typical Ti+Se (ISTP), but your contemplating way of writing speaks more for INTP. It's almost impossible to even offer guidance to which type you are, based on the little information. You have to provide more insight into how you think and process information.
Alternatively, read about the functions sensing and intuition and determine which one fits you the best. In short:

- Sensors perceive physical data which makes them commonly appear to others as concrete, detail-oriented, down-to-earth, practical, people of great memory, takes things for what they are, lives in the moment, sequential

- Intuitives perceive metaphysical data which makes them commonly appear to others as abstract, big picture oriented, dreamy, idealistic, thinks outside the box, future-oriented, misses details, says things that nobody in the room understands, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
"Wanting" to be an INTJ is wrong and means that you are putting a rank between the types, i.e., which one you think is "better" than others and the Mastermind (which is a completely incorrect title) appeals to you because then you can say that you're smarter than others. This is wrong, INTJ:s are not smarter than others, all INTJ:s are definitely not Masterminds (particularly not young and uneducated ones) just as all ENTJ:s are not Field Marshalls or Commanders. The right thing is that there are different types of intelligences, and different types are likely to display different gifts and excel at different things.
I know it's wrong to want to be a type or other, one is what one is and can only compensate, not change - that much I've learned. However I'm not interested in proving anything, neither to myself or others. I know what I'm capable of and not, typed, mistyped or not typed, and, as said, I don't like to brag. Doesn't make sense when combined with wanting to be a certain type? Probably not. In reality - before I started reading about this, and still, regardless of MBTI type stereotypes - I don't see myself as a mastermind at all, but mostly as a repairman/technical problem solver. (And, yes, I see what you did there, within the parenthesis - pneumatics - if that was intentional...)
It's all about your functions and how they interact with eachother. You self-identify as an introverted type, meaning that you likely are an introverted type. I think you are likely one of the following types:

- ISTP
- INTP
- ISTJ (a little less likely than ISTP or INTP)

I cannot determine which one of INTP or ISTP suits you the best - your logical and hands-on "fixing things" way of interacting is typical Ti+Se (ISTP), but your contemplating way of writing speaks more for INTP. It's almost impossible to even offer guidance to which type you are, based on the little information. You have to provide more insight into how you think and process information.
Said contemplation often happens not at the time of writing, but when doing other things, with the mind on "auto pilot", if this is any help. Sometimes I even write down a good formulation or chosen words out of it, to remember. The shower is a place where many insights and a-ha moments happens.

I'm not even sure myself how I think and process information. Gather information, get an understanding? Seems more like the definition of thinking than a way to think...

Alternatively, read about the functions sensing and intuition and determine which one fits you the best. In short:

- Sensors perceive physical data which makes them commonly appear to others as concrete, detail-oriented, down-to-earth, practical, people of great memory, takes things for what they are, lives in the moment, sequential

- Intuitives perceive metaphysical data which makes them commonly appear to others as abstract, big picture oriented, dreamy, idealistic, thinks outside the box, future-oriented, misses details, says things that nobody in the room understands, etc.
I have read about that, and just now even more - I recognize much of both, and there are parts of both that seem definitely not like me, yet I see a bit more of the 'nots' on the N side, so S would be my guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I was probably too quick to answer yesterday, today I have been thinking things through more - Your (TB_Wisdom) answer about it being wrong to want to be INTJ pointed me to thinking about why I want to be typed at all - it's probably mostly just the infamous subconcious want, to belong to some group/label/something. And it really pisses me off that I fell for it. I should have learned by now. Yet, I don't want to quit now, when I've come this far.


Also, I have remembered and noticed a few thought sequences, or what I should call them:

When coming across the first four-letter acronym, that I later learned was an MBTI type, and began reading about this subject, I think it was something like this: INFJ- what could that acronym mean? Inferior something? Judgment? No, nobody would make up such an acronym in the context of these videos, and it wouldnt make much sense. Infinite something? No, that doesen't make sense at all... And then I arrived at Wikipedia to find the real answer.

When later noting something about INTJ that I wanted to remember, I used the similarity to the word "inch" to distinguish it. For some unknown reason, I also (probably later) made the connection between the acronym with individual letters pronounced and the passage "Daddy DJ" in the song of the same name, somewhat amused by how out-of-character it would be for an introverted type that's also described as strong-willed, to ask to be taken to a party, as the continuation of the song goes. Then correcting that, as the question in that case would have been asked to the INTJ, by someone who at least knows that the other one is known by those letters, does (s)he know what they mean? and so on...

When thinking about writing this today, I hesitated about the first part about group belonging, as I have read that it is a ground that terrorists use when recruiting new members, and that some algorithm in a mass surveillance system might flag me for it, and if and what future consequences that might bring. However I weighed that against not posting it, assumed that such algorithms will probably not be looking for it written in clear text but other, less obvious patterns, whatever they might be, and I decided to include it.


I'm however not sure if these are typical examples of how I think, or if I've noticed them because they are not. I really can't tell at all.
 

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I don't see myself as a mastermind at all, but mostly as a repairman/technical problem solver.
Then it wouldn't be too far off to type you as the ISTP, which sometimes is called "the mechanic" (and other times "the virtuoso").

I read the rest of your statement too but decided to only quote the part above, where you basically self-identify yourself =)

There is something spiritual about knowing ones personality type, which is why so many people (myself included) around the world for thousands of years have studied personality types. It's natural to want to know one self better, and know how the self relates to others. That's the path to self-growth. Self-growth leads to you becoming a better person. It is dangerous to be mistyped, it will lead to more misery and can even lead to neurosis. So if I offended you, I appologize, but I am trying to make a very important point and there are too many people in this forum who want to be INTJ/INFJ because they think they are the "cool" types. And that stuff needs to be eliminated, because all types are the cool type. With that said, I'll end by sharing my own journey with discovering my type:

The first time I took a test I scored as an ESTJ. I thought the description kind of made sense. Some tests scored me as ENTJ though. So I was asking: Am I ENTJ or ESTJ? I didn't know the difference. So I started studying the pros/cons of the ESTJ and it sounded so completely off for me. Unemotional. Domineering. Taking charge. Honors traditions. That isn't me at all. So when I realized the difference between N and S, I could completely and immediately see that I am a clear intuitive throughout my entire life. So I thought I was an ENTJ for perhaps say 1 months. Then when I dag deeper into the ENTJ type, and learned about the cognitive functions and how Introverted Feeling is inferior for ENTJ:s and ENTJ:s struggle on the empathic side. This didn't make sense at all for me. I am highly empathic. I relate deeply to peoples feelings and can "feel what other people feel". Then I was working, one day, and it just came to me that I am not an extraverted type but an introverted type. So I admitted a painful truth about myself: I am shy, I am insecure and I have always been that. I behave like an extravert (thus answer test questions as if I was an extravert) but that is learned behaviour. I am an introvert. So for the ENTJ type, when I swapped the E for the I (resulting in the INTJ) - spot on. Completely me. Description, every single thing fits exactly to me and how I have been as a child. It was so scary how accurate the INTJ is for me. It explains why I am so extremely hungry for knowledge. Why I learned math before I started 1st grade. Why teachers got nuts with me because I was so quick and I didnt want to follow rules. Why everyone sees me as "highly analytical". Etc, etc.

Nowadays when I take the test I always score as an INTJ. Truity. The official MBTI. All score me as an INTJ. But that doesn't matter anymore because I know enough of the theory to clearly type myself as an INTJ. There are some typical behavioural patterns of the INTJ that doesn't fit me though - this notion of atheism. I am a ridicoleusly spiritual person who believes in visions of the future, the world beyond this world and so-on. Point being: Everything within a "type" will not fit you. But once you know enough of the theory, you'll see that you "generally" think, learn, decide and communicate in a certain way due to how your cognitive functions have developed since birth. Thus you can only be one type.

And discovering that I was an INTJ has significantly improved my social skills and made me significantly more likeable with people. I'm still not a social talent, but it has improved significantly.

I say all this with the following message: Finding your type is hard. Society expects of you a certain behaviour, and you learn the behaviour (I work in Finance where the dominant type is ESTJ, not strange that I also score as an ESTJ when I first took the test). But thats not who you are. Finding who you are is important because it will significantly help you improve your weak sides. If you are an ISTP, but think that you are an INTJ - it won't help you. You won't improve. You won't develop your weak sides.

I think that you are an ISTP, the mechanic, the virtuoso. But what do I know, finding your type is your journey. Best of luck!
 

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I was probably too quick to answer yesterday, today I have been thinking things through more - Your (TB_Wisdom) answer about it being wrong to want to be INTJ pointed me to thinking about why I want to be typed at all - it's probably mostly just the infamous subconcious want, to belong to some group/label/something. And it really pisses me off that I fell for it. I should have learned by now. Yet, I don't want to quit now, when I've come this far.


Also, I have remembered and noticed a few thought sequences, or what I should call them:

When coming across the first four-letter acronym, that I later learned was an MBTI type, and began reading about this subject, I think it was something like this: INFJ- what could that acronym mean? Inferior something? Judgment? No, nobody would make up such an acronym in the context of these videos, and it wouldnt make much sense. Infinite something? No, that doesen't make sense at all... And then I arrived at Wikipedia to find the real answer.

When later noting something about INTJ that I wanted to remember, I used the similarity to the word "inch" to distinguish it. For some unknown reason, I also (probably later) made the connection between the acronym with individual letters pronounced and the passage "Daddy DJ" in the song of the same name, somewhat amused by how out-of-character it would be for an introverted type that's also described as strong-willed, to ask to be taken to a party, as the continuation of the song goes. Then correcting that, as the question in that case would have been asked to the INTJ, by someone who at least knows that the other one is known by those letters, does (s)he know what they mean? and so on...

When thinking about writing this today, I hesitated about the first part about group belonging, as I have read that it is a ground that terrorists use when recruiting new members, and that some algorithm in a mass surveillance system might flag me for it, and if and what future consequences that might bring. However I weighed that against not posting it, assumed that such algorithms will probably not be looking for it written in clear text but other, less obvious patterns, whatever they might be, and I decided to include it.


I'm however not sure if these are typical examples of how I think, or if I've noticed them because they are not. I really can't tell at all.
TB_Wisdom covered most of what I would have pointed out--my way, and then some, so I'll add only that to my mind--and having Swedish friends may or may not be a factor here--as my having been married to an ISTP, and my father is an ISTJ (as is an aunt, others I know well):

You seem, clearly to my mind: ISTP.

I did not think you were bragging. Instead, your posts seemed to reflect some lack of confidence or fear of coming across as bragging, i.e. self-effacing, not self-aggrandizing.
 

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It seems pretty clear to me that you're an ISTx type...whether that be ISTJ or ISTP I can't say for certain, but ISTJ seems more likely to me. I will say that I definitely do NOT see you as an INTP- I've interacted with a very wide range of healthy and unhealthy ntps, and you just don't strike me as one...primarily due to your way of speaking/writing and your thought process.

A few people above mentioned the functions- That's the best way to decide what type you are. Since we're deciding between ISTJ and ISTP, I'll ask you this.

Which of these two lists do you identify more with?

List 1:

"-Se dominant types are highly in tune with their environments and are constantly scanning their surroundings.
-They may be more physically ‘wired’ than other types and have trouble sitting still.
-Se users tend to be ‘up for anything’ and don’t mind changing or hopping on board with plans at the last minute.
-They tend to make very direct observations about people and situations – they don’t beat around the bush and are the masters of saying what everyone else was secretly thinking.
-They enjoy slapstick or ‘obvious’ humour.
-They enjoy the ‘finer things in life’ and may be particularly attracted to expensive gadgets or high fashion.
-Dominant Se users are almost always present and engaged in conversation, unless something in the immediate environment is distracting them.
-These types usually advocate for ‘Just going for it’ – that is, following your gut instinct and approaching what you want directly."

List 2:
"-Si users have excellent memories when it comes to specific facts and occurrences and will usually remember things you’ve mentioned only in passing.
-They are incredibly detail-oriented and usually ask for specific clarifications in conversation (I.e. “Where did you meet up? What day?”)
-They are uncomfortable with the ambiguous and in conversation, they prefer relaying relevant facts to speculating. I.e. when discussing possibilities for the future, they will point out what has happened in a similar situation in the past.
-They enjoy having things planned out in a predictable fashion.
-Si users tend to place a higher value on tradition, social conventions and status than other types.
-These types usually advocate for using the tried and true method, referencing the facts that already exist on the matter and assuming that the future will resemble the past."

Hope this helps!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Then it wouldn't be too far off to type you as the ISTP, which sometimes is called "the mechanic" (and other times "the virtuoso").

I read the rest of your statement too but decided to only quote the part above, where you basically self-identify yourself =)
Didn't you just say that reading type descriptions probably is the worst way? Or doesn't it apply to the headline? :-S
There is something spiritual about knowing ones personality type, which is why so many people (myself included) around the world for thousands of years have studied personality types. It's natural to want to know one self better, and know how the self relates to others. That's the path to self-growth. Self-growth leads to you becoming a better person. It is dangerous to be mistyped, it will lead to more misery and can even lead to neurosis.
Through what mechanisms? Being treated (workload/work type etc.) as a type whose needs are significantly different from one's actual type? Or something less obvious? (at least for the moment, I do not intend to share any knowledge of MBTI in general and my type (if I find it) in particular, with anyone who knows me.)
So if I offended you, I appologize, but I am trying to make a very important point and there are too many people in this forum who want to be INTJ/INFJ because they think they are the "cool" types. And that stuff needs to be eliminated, because all types are the cool type.
I did ask for it. Literally. Also - no offense and sorry if I'm wrong - I guess you put on a bit extra to dissuade wanting to "be like you", or rather wanting to "be like your indicated type".

It occurred to me today that I read that it's an unusual type, and I can confess that I think of myself as unusual. However, when actively thinking about that, I realize that's silly. Every idiot thinks they're something special - or, if one would prefer to see it in a brighter way; everyone's unique.
[rest of text]
Thanks.



TB_Wisdom covered most of what I would have pointed out--my way, and then some, so I'll add only that to my mind--and having Swedish friends may or may not be a factor here--as my having been married to an ISTP, and my father is an ISTJ (as is an aunt, others I know well):

You seem, clearly to my mind: ISTP.
Thanks.
I did not think you were bragging. Instead, your posts seemed to reflect some lack of confidence or fear of coming across as bragging, i.e. self-effacing, not self-aggrandizing.
Probably the Law of Jante then (which I just confessed breaking, at least on a subconcious level, see above...)


It seems pretty clear to me that you're an ISTx type...whether that be ISTJ or ISTP I can't say for certain, but ISTJ seems more likely to me. I will say that I definitely do NOT see you as an INTP- I've interacted with a very wide range of healthy and unhealthy ntps, and you just don't strike me as one...primarily due to your way of speaking/writing and your thought process.
Thanks.
A few people above mentioned the functions- That's the best way to decide what type you are. Since we're deciding between ISTJ and ISTP, I'll ask you this.

Which of these two lists do you identify more with?
Shouldn't that be the lists of Si vs. Ti, or Te vs. Se? Comparing a dominant with an aux seems unfair, especially since the list talks of "Se dominant types" which none of them are. You probably know more than me, I'm just checking.
List 1:
"-Se dominant types are highly in tune with their environments and are constantly scanning their surroundings.
I don't know if I do so more or less than other people, but yes, I do.
-They may be more physically ‘wired’ than other types and have trouble sitting still.
No. I'm annoyed by those who jiggle their legs, tap their fingers on their coffe mugs, etc. I usually sit perfectly still.
-Se users tend to be ‘up for anything’ and don’t mind changing or hopping on board with plans at the last minute.
No, very rarely.
-They tend to make very direct observations about people and situations – they don’t beat around the bush and are the masters of saying what everyone else was secretly thinking.
Don't know.
-They enjoy slapstick or ‘obvious’ humour.
I'm not sure of the definitions, but I'd say probably not. As said in the starting post, I hate the kind of "humor" popular on YouTube where real people get hurt. I do laugh at StickDeath though, anything in between is a sloping line, but with a sharp stop where real people get hurt (not acting). That's not funny. (StickDeath was a series of animations of stickmen being killed and/or mutilated in humorous ways, such as by various car anti-theft killer systems). I have no idea what is meant by "'obvious' humor", and searching didn't help me.
-They enjoy the ‘finer things in life’ and may be particularly attracted to expensive gadgets or high fashion.
Nope.
-Dominant Se users are almost always present and engaged in conversation, unless something in the immediate environment is distracting them.
No.
-These types usually advocate for ‘Just going for it’ – that is, following your gut instinct and approaching what you want directly."
Didn't understand the statement.
List 2:
"-Si users have excellent memories when it comes to specific facts and occurrences and will usually remember things you’ve mentioned only in passing.
Sometimes I remember useless things, sometimes I forget very useful ones. (DDT stands for Di-chloro Di-phenyl Tri-chloroethylene...)
-They are incredibly detail-oriented and usually ask for specific clarifications in conversation (I.e. “Where did you meet up? What day?”)
If the discussion interests me, often yes.
-They are uncomfortable with the ambiguous and in conversation, they prefer relaying relevant facts to speculating. I.e. when discussing possibilities for the future, they will point out what has happened in a similar situation in the past.
It happens, yet I often speculate about, for example, what could be the problem when something (machine, process, society, etc.) doesn't work proprely.
-They enjoy having things planned out in a predictable fashion.
Sometimes absolutely, sometimes absolutely not.
-Si users tend to place a higher value on tradition, social conventions and status than other types.
No.
-These types usually advocate for using the tried and true method, referencing the facts that already exist on the matter and assuming that the future will resemble the past."
Often, but not always.
 

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First question

Every time you are presented with a new situation or problem, how do you approach it? For ease, let's take several examples into account:
1. You're going to school/work, but the bus which usually comes at 8 AM didn't arrive, it's already 8:05 and you're still waiting. You have a very important lecture/task at your school/job.
2. You're at work, and your colleague tells you that today there will be a surprise inspection of your department. The higher ups will check how your department is performing.

Your preferred response to both of these situations would be:
A) "I know based on past experience, that this situation will go in X way. What will happen today is what has always happened in the past. And therefore I will solve this problem the same way I solved it in the past."
B) "Even though I experienced similar situations in the past, lighting doesn't strike twice, and therefore my past experience is mostly useless. I will try to adapt to the situation as it evolves. I will find solutions to the current problems by looking at my current environment."

With the bus example, the A and B responses could materialize in the following way: (mind you this is only an example of how they could materialize, but for every person that materialization can be slightly different)

Bus, A response: Buses have been late several times in the past, but they always arrived in the end. So all I need to do is just wait a few more minutes.
Bus, B response: Buses have been late several times in the past, but nobody knows what the future can bring. Just because they always came in the end, doesn't mean they will do the same forever. Instead of trusting my past experience, I should instead look at my external environment - are there many people at the bus stop waiting for the same bus? Do they look confident that it will come, or are they just as lost as I am? Are there any other transport options I could consider, because I really don't want to wait for something that might never even arrive?

Task: apply everything mentioned above to all your life situations, don't just stick to the examples I mentioned.

Second question

You are at an art gallery. Suddenly, art thieves armed with guns and knives break into the gallery, and take everyone hostage. The leader of the criminal gang approaches you, then looks at the painting next to you, and says: "Tell me what this painting is saying. What are its unique features? If I'll like your answer, I might let you go."

How would you start analyzing the painting in your head, and then how would you start describing it? Let's say the painting you're dealing with is this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Nighthawks_by_Edward_Hopper_1942.jpg/1200px-Nighthawks_by_Edward_Hopper_1942.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #10
First question

Every time you are presented with a new situation or problem, how do you approach it? For ease, let's take several examples into account:
1. You're going to school/work, but the bus which usually comes at 8 AM didn't arrive, it's already 8:05 and you're still waiting. You have a very important lecture/task at your school/job.
I have a car and drive to work, but if I was usually riding the bus, I'd probably take the car instead on such a day, to prevent that situation from happening in the first place. If I didn't have a car, and that situation did occur, I'd call the bus company and ask when the bus will arrive, if it's too late, I'd think about if colleagues, relatives, friends, etc. will be driving the same way or closely, if I should call them, or call for a taxi, and do what's best. If the bus company didn't know, I'd set up a final time when I'd have to do so instead of continuing to wait for the bus.
2. You're at work, and your colleague tells you that today there will be a surprise inspection of your department. The higher ups will check how your department is performing.
I guess I'd do a bit extra to tidy up and make sure that the efficiency is visible, and maybe even a bit higher than under usual circumstances.
Your preferred response to both of these situations would be:
A) "I know based on past experience, that this situation will go in X way. What will happen today is what has always happened in the past. And therefore I will solve this problem the same way I solved it in the past."
B) "Even though I experienced similar situations in the past, lighting doesn't strike twice, and therefore my past experience is mostly useless. I will try to adapt to the situation as it evolves. I will find solutions to the current problems by looking at my current environment."

With the bus example, the A and B responses could materialize in the following way: (mind you this is only an example of how they could materialize, but for every person that materialization can be slightly different)

Bus, A response: Buses have been late several times in the past, but they always arrived in the end. So all I need to do is just wait a few more minutes.
Bus, B response: Buses have been late several times in the past, but nobody knows what the future can bring. Just because they always came in the end, doesn't mean they will do the same forever. Instead of trusting my past experience, I should instead look at my external environment - are there many people at the bus stop waiting for the same bus? Do they look confident that it will come, or are they just as lost as I am? Are there any other transport options I could consider, because I really don't want to wait for something that might never even arrive?
I'm not sure. I certainly wouldn't trust that the bus would arrive, but I can't say if that's because of how I think, or if it's because I had to use SJ, Sweden's notoriously unreliable railroad company, to get to school, and can't properly imagine what I'd do if public transportation was usually reliable.
Task: apply everything mentioned above to all your life situations, don't just stick to the examples I mentioned.
I'll try to keep that in mind, and think about how I think, so to say.
Second question

You are at an art gallery. Suddenly, art thieves armed with guns and knives break into the gallery, and take everyone hostage. The leader of the criminal gang approaches you, then looks at the painting next to you, and says: "Tell me what this painting is saying. What are its unique features? If I'll like your answer, I might let you go."
To begin with, sitting safely by the computer, I wonder why on Earth he'd say such a thing? Is it likely that he'd actually let me go (well, probably not), but why would he ask such questions. I'd expect an art thief to know what they are going to steal, and primarily, its value. And if they didn't, I'd have expected him to ask me for its value and not about what it's saying and its unique features. What I'd think about in such a situation might differ though, I don't know that. Or what I'd actually say or do then.
How would you start analyzing the painting in your head, and then how would you start describing it? Let's say the painting you're dealing with is this: [link removed as I can't post links yet]
What first came to mind now is that it seems cold. Probably influenced by it being a little cold in the room I'm sitting, but something about the colors gave that vibe, reinforced when thinking about the large glass surfaces leaking heat.

What I'd say, i guess it's about loneliness or similar, and unique features - well painted, fine detail. Probably not that unique, but it's what comes to mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
What first came to mind now is that it seems cold. Probably influenced by it being a little cold in the room I'm sitting, but something about the colors gave that vibe, reinforced when thinking about the large glass surfaces leaking heat.

What I'd say, i guess it's about loneliness or similar, [...]
None of this is anything I'd talk about under normal circumstances though, probably not even if directly asked (casually, without the threat/promise in the example). I do get those feelings, like cold in this case, but to begin with, it takes a little bit of effort to put it into words, at least sometimes, but first and foremost, I don't want to be seen as knowing things that doesn't come out of reality or however I shall say it, and probably also differ wildly between people. I guess "That stuff's for the culture people" pretty much sums it up. No offense to any such people here, it's just that I don't want to be like that. And I'm probably not even good at it, however "good" is defined in this case.
 

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Har du studerat och trodde av kognitiva funktioner ännu? Relaterar du till Ni, Ne, Se, eller Ti det mesta? Efter att läsa din beskrivning ett par gånger, jag vill avsluta att du är INTP, inte INTJ/ISTJ/ISTP, eftersom du använder faktiskt Ti det mesta, föjld av Si och Ne, ungefär likt. Jag är INTP också, och jag misstas som INTJ det mesta tiden! Men en amerikansk INTP, inte skandinavisk en.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Har du studerat och trodde av kognitiva funktioner ännu? Relaterar du till Ni, Ne, Se, eller Ti det mesta? Efter att läsa din beskrivning ett par gånger, jag vill avsluta att du är INTP, inte INTJ/ISTJ/ISTP, eftersom du använder faktiskt Ti det mesta, föjld av Si och Ne, ungefär likt. Jag är INTP också, och jag misstas som INTJ det mesta tiden! Men en amerikansk INTP, inte skandinavisk en.
Could you please repost that in English? I think I got it, but it's heavily English-influenced and a bit unclear. (Auto translate?)

I have studied the cfs a bit, but I think my main problem is that I can't see why I think how I think. I get the thoght/idea/solution/whatever, but I can't "trace it", if it came from earlier, similar experiences, or from principles, for example. Also, what is the definitions? this is an example reasoning, but the same goes for most, if not all, things:

Principle or similarity to past events? Operating a light bulb (incandescent):
The light bulb lights when the switch is actuated. No, there could be a power outage, tripped breaker/fuse, etc.
The light bulb lights when it gets power No, it could be broken.
The light bulb lights when it gets power and it's intact No, not if the voltage is too low - not visible light anyway, it'd emit some IR.
The bulb lights when the filament gets hot enough Well, not if it's made of black glass. But is it then a light bulb?

This could be taken to any number of more-or-less likely scenarios, but on a day-to-day basis I expect the room to be lit when I push the switch. I'm aware of the electricity and the light bulb and the principles of it, but not every time I push the button.

Where to draw the line on how often one has to think in one way or the other to be S/N, AND where to draw the line on what is a principle and what's an expected repetition of past consequences?


While I'm at it, I should mention that I identify with some of what @Mez describes in this thread: personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/1193833-type-me-again.html
Particularly the strong attachment to physical objects, feeling "like I'm throwing away a living creature." Mostly as a child, but it still gets me sometimes when it's a complex thing, and/or I've had it for a long time. Also sometimes when I'm not well, for example have a cold with fever. This attachment is attributed to (I)SJ in that thread.
 

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You comes off as an IxTP though...
 

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@Not_A_Nonymous_Person

Want me to ask you questions to figure out your process thinking? You'd have to be honest and precise.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Another thing that happens - I don't know how often, I think about it a few times daily but I'm fairly sure it happens considerably more often, but I don't reflect on it - is this, I'll take an example from last night:

I was driving and heard the news on the radio.

Radio: "During Christmas, there's an increase in destructive..."

Me, thinking: "Damn, I forgot that I should have brought that bottle of liquor that I should have had some of tonight." Or, rather it was a mental image of said bottle and the feeling of having forgotten something.

This happened instantly, right after the word "destructive" and before the next word on the radio. However from then on, I only heard pieces of what the radio said (something of destructive behaviour in relationships, but actually mentioned alcohol later) because I was now busy analyzing how "destructive" instantly led to "alcohol", if it's a principle, if it involved the fact that it was the radio that said "destructive", if that word usually is used before the word "alcohol" on the radio (it is), what this could mean in terms of cognitive functions, how often it happens, how I should formulate the text that I should write on a note to remember what to write on PerC about this tomorrow (now today, this), and so on.

@Not_A_Nonymous_Person

Want me to ask you questions to figure out your process thinking? You'd have to be honest and precise.
Try it, but expect many "don't know", "half-true", "depends on how you define X", "not sure" etc. answers.
 

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Another thing that happens - I don't know how often, I think about it a few times daily but I'm fairly sure it happens considerably more often, but I don't reflect on it - is this, I'll take an example from last night:

I was driving and heard the news on the radio.

Radio: "During Christmas, there's an increase in destructive..."

Me, thinking: "Damn, I forgot that I should have brought that bottle of liquor that I should have had some of tonight." Or, rather it was a mental image of said bottle and the feeling of having forgotten something.

This happened instantly, right after the word "destructive" and before the next word on the radio. However from then on, I only heard pieces of what the radio said (something of destructive behaviour in relationships, but actually mentioned alcohol later) because I was now busy analyzing how "destructive" instantly led to "alcohol", if it's a principle, if it involved the fact that it was the radio that said "destructive", if that word usually is used before the word "alcohol" on the radio (it is), what this could mean in terms of cognitive functions, how often it happens, how I should formulate the text that I should write on a note to remember what to write on PerC about this tomorrow (now today, this), and so on.

Try it, but expect many "don't know", "half-true", "depends on how you define X", "not sure" etc. answers.
ISTP... lol. This kind of reasoning is archetypal ISTP to me, so to speak.

OK an explanation too. It's your approach about looking for principles like that that's like I've seen ISTPs do it, along with how you are detail-oriented and attached to physical objects in a S way. INTPs are more general and way less detail-oriented in analysis than you.


You are at an art gallery. Suddenly, art thieves armed with guns and knives break into the gallery, and take everyone hostage. The leader of the criminal gang approaches you, then looks at the painting next to you, and says: "Tell me what this painting is saying. What are its unique features? If I'll like your answer, I might let you go."

How would you start analyzing the painting in your head, and then how would you start describing it? Let's say the painting you're dealing with is this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Nighthawks_by_Edward_Hopper_1942.jpg/1200px-Nighthawks_by_Edward_Hopper_1942.jpg
Hahaha worst question to ask me. I might as well give up my life. OK, well, under the pressure/shock, I'd probably be trying my best to say something. But god knows what I'd end up saying. :laughing:

OP also doesn't seem very good at doing Ne, for sure. We both seem lost at it but in a different way heh.
 

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Could you please repost that in English? I think I got it, but it's heavily English-influenced and a bit unclear. (Auto translate?)

I have studied the cfs a bit, but I think my main problem is that I can't see why I think how I think. I get the thoght/idea/solution/whatever, but I can't "trace it", if it came from earlier, similar experiences, or from principles, for example. Also, what is the definitions? this is an example reasoning, but the same goes for most, if not all, things:

Principle or similarity to past events? Operating a light bulb (incandescent):
The light bulb lights when the switch is actuated. No, there could be a power outage, tripped breaker/fuse, etc.
The light bulb lights when it gets power No, it could be broken.
The light bulb lights when it gets power and it's intact No, not if the voltage is too low - not visible light anyway, it'd emit some IR.
The bulb lights when the filament gets hot enough Well, not if it's made of black glass. But is it then a light bulb?

This could be taken to any number of more-or-less likely scenarios, but on a day-to-day basis I expect the room to be lit when I push the switch. I'm aware of the electricity and the light bulb and the principles of it, but not every time I push the button.
Interesting to compare to how I work... I will have automatic expectations for it to just work. I know logically that it might fail to work yeah but I'll be pissed off it that actually happens at the worst moment lol. (Otherwise I wouldn't be too affected by it.) I don't think of principles like that, I just expect it to work out of simple habit.

And I'd never have thought of the "black glass" option lol that's unnecessary to me. Idk if that's an IxTP thing, to me as a TJ, it's pointless tho'.


Where to draw the line on how often one has to think in one way or the other to be S/N, AND where to draw the line on what is a principle and what's an expected repetition of past consequences?
Err, what is a principle to you then?


While I'm at it, I should mention that I identify with some of what @Mez describes in this thread: personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/1193833-type-me-again.html
Particularly the strong attachment to physical objects, feeling "like I'm throwing away a living creature." Mostly as a child, but it still gets me sometimes when it's a complex thing, and/or I've had it for a long time. Also sometimes when I'm not well, for example have a cold with fever. This attachment is attributed to (I)SJ in that thread.
I don't actually feel like I'm throwing away a living creature, I'm more detached-impersonal than that, but I otherwise do have a strong attachment to physical objects too. I think it's an S thing and possibly a bit more ISxx than ESxx.
 

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@Not_A_Nonymous_Person

As long as you explain your reasoning the best way you can, it's fine. Or try to elaborate as much as possible.

• What are your strengths? Your weaknesses? Elaborate them.
• What makes you depressed and angry...why? What makes you happy/excited...why?
• How do you feel about the future and why?
• What do you value and why are these values important to you?
 

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"Can I have been subconciously manipulating my test results in one or several of the tests in order to get the INTJ result"
Yes, I'd even dare to say that most people do MBTI tests with a clear image of result they either expect or want, not even on the subconscious level.
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Anyway, the vibe that I get from this description is very "Ni", but again typing someone based solely on "vibes" isn't too reliable and you probably would want some more evidence.
You seem to be certain to be one of the IxTx types, it's a quite wide range, but it is still better than nothing.
It is important to point out that no matter how good your description is and how much other people and I will try to type you, it'll always have some kind of lack of information. Nevertheless, I'll try my best to help you :p
.
Let's say that you're in fact an INTJ. Everything you have written here seem to fit this type, from well developed Ni to being an individual that doesn't care about trends [I'm assuming it from your paragraph about "funny" videos]. Although, you are questioning whether you actually are an INTJ, because of your tendencies for this "nostalgia" feelings, which are quite common amongst ISTJs and other Si-dom, aux and maybe even tertiary types [hence INTP could be a possibility]. I just want to say that even though main cognitive functions for INTJs are Ni-Te-Fi-Se, they still do use other functions, therefore to some extent they use Si. How much of it they use, depends on the individual, not to mention "nostalgia" is an emotion, that all people [unless some weird disorder is present] experience from time to time, no matter the type.
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You seem also to be keen for being an INTJ, which may play quite crucial role in who you are. Are you just a wannabe? I don't know. But, you may try being all of these 4 types for certain time period and just see how you feel. Does it seem forced? Are you happy?
You may also check forums for INTJs, INTPs, etc. and see whether can you to some extent relate.
Good luck!
 
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