What annoys you about INTJs? and INFJs?
I have read a lot about INTJs and INFJs being ENTPs' natural partner and that these Ni-doms gravitate towards you guys, and vice versa (although I acknowledge that it isn't always the case). But generally, what particular features/behaviours turn you guys off from these introverts? Just asking out of curiosity. 
It doesn't necessarily have have to be related to romantic relationships.
Hope to hear [read] your feedback! ^^
It doesn't necessarily have have to be related to romantic relationships.Hope to hear [read] your feedback! ^^
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They tend to act a bit too convinced about things for my taste, but I imagine my desire to not close possibilities is every bit as annoying.
Oh yes, this. I can't speak for all Ni-doms, so I'll just speak of my personal perspective. I acknowledge that in retrospect I sometimes deplore that I jump into conclusions rather too quickly, when in the eventuality of matters, I discovered that my conclusion, though logically and plausibly laid out, has been wrong all along. It is disappointing and embarrasses me in a way that is humbling.
That's the other thing. I don't get why intjs and infjs are that concerned when they're wrong. You all often seem to take it personally.
It's often the consequences that other people have to experience from adopting my strong opinions (I can be stubborn at convincing people to concede). So I get washed it guilt. I do attribute it to my Fe, which in certain situations can become my Achilles' heel. :/
But thanks for pointing this out. I've never really thought much about this before. :-o
I do attribute it to my Fe, which in certain situations can become my Achilles' heel. :/But thanks for pointing this out. I've never really thought much about this before. :-o
Don't know any INFJs, but one of my best friends is an INTJ. He doesn't annoy me in any way, which is pretty rare I think. Being the way that I am, I'm sure I annoy him more but never hear about it.
I really like the Ne + Ni deal.. the synchronization of the two makes for really awesome fun times, and really deep discussion times.
I really like the Ne + Ni deal.. the synchronization of the two makes for really awesome fun times, and really deep discussion times.
Funny, my two best friends are INTJ and INFJ. I get along with them great, but if I had to pick at something then probably:
INTJ: Very quick to call others stupid and consider herself far more supreme than surrounding individuals. Though I usually just find this funny and play along.
INFJ: When she's nice to absolutely everyone and expects me to do the same. Though she's realized now that it is pointless introducing me to other people; if I wanted to meet them, I'd introduce myself.
Minor, minor things. I think I probably annoy them with my odd statements that I purposely argue to be correct, questioning of everything and theories more than they annoy me.
(note: I way be INTP in which case my statement is useless and unnecessary)
INTJ: Very quick to call others stupid and consider herself far more supreme than surrounding individuals. Though I usually just find this funny and play along.
INFJ: When she's nice to absolutely everyone and expects me to do the same. Though she's realized now that it is pointless introducing me to other people; if I wanted to meet them, I'd introduce myself.
Minor, minor things. I think I probably annoy them with my odd statements that I purposely argue to be correct, questioning of everything and theories more than they annoy me.
(note: I way be INTP in which case my statement is useless and unnecessary)
My husband is INTJ and the only issue is sometimes he is too technical and maybe doesn't think? hahaha. Like he can say something that hurts someone's feelings because he isn't catching on to "feeling big picture". I do a lot of "nudging" or "kicking across the table" or "squeezing his hand". And sometimes he might get offended cause feels Im telling him wrong but MOST of the time he stops and thinks. Most of the time he trusts my emotional intelligence and 99% of the time I trust his straight up intelligence.
This is where my fondness for ENXP's stems from. I find that most of the time I keep my ideas to myself until a Ne comes along; from a biochem geek standpoint, Ne ideas+positively provocative attitude act like salt that draws out water from a quiet Ni (gets them talking about their ideas). Forgive me for my bias for saying this but I suppose Ne-doms make life more interesting for a Ni-dom like me (hence salt?). lol. This must be the most tacky metaphor I can think of, but it fits really well.
I love the dynamics of your relationship. Reading your post literally made me smile. You really do balance each other well. ^^
You really do balance each other well. ^^
They can be too closed at times. But its fine. Challenging is good.
I have only met one or two INFJ's who I didn't really like. They were really subjective... they would dismiss all external input.
Some INTJ's are closed-off... and unadjustable sometimes.
Some INTJ's are closed-off... and unadjustable sometimes.
I have read a lot about INTJs and INFJs being ENTPs' natural partner and that these Ni-doms gravitate towards you guys, and vice versa (although I acknowledge that it isn't always the case). But generally, what particular features/behaviours turn you guys off from these introverts? Just asking out of curiosity.
Hope to hear [read] your feedback! ^^
Haha what a geek ;] but it makes sense. I have always thought of the interaction as a force between the two.. equally the same but opposite in direction. I have always been drawn to my INTJ's ideas and thoughts on things. His definitive-ness is actually encouraging, and if I have a different idea (which I always do), he is interested in hearing it.
Btw.. can I get one of those cupcakes?? They've been teasing me for two days now!!
Btw.. can I get one of those cupcakes?? They've been teasing me for two days now!!
This is where my fondness for ENXP's stems from. I find that most of the time I keep my ideas to myself until a Ne comes along; from a biochem geek standpoint, Ne ideas+positively provocative attitude act like salt that draws out water from a quiet Ni (gets them talking about their ideas). Forgive me for my bias for saying this but I suppose Ne-doms make life more interesting for a Ni-dom like me (hence salt?). lol. This must be the most tacky metaphor I can think of, but it fits really well.
INTJs: They never say sorry and want to brush feelings aside. The end result is similar to INFJs, except INTJs do it because they don't want to give too much validity to emotions, whereas INFJs are afraid of how deeply they might feel. They also say things without understanding the emotional impact it may have on others. They typically help people only to the extent to which they feel gratified (i.e. they feel it's an opportunity to show off their intelligence) or happy, but if you ask them to go out of their way to help you, they have a tendency to resent that.
INFJs: If they're males, they come off as pussies to me. If they're females, they can be very flaky unless they fall head-over-heels for no objectively obvious reason. Then they come up with some reason in their head to stick with a relationship that is really unhealthy or should never have happened in the first place. And after everything goes wrong, they get really jaded.
Both: Both types are notoriously pigheaded and hate to feel "controlled". They will still do what they're told to do though, and usually do the task rather well. Both jump to conclusions rather quickly, although INFJs usually manifest more doubt later on.
INFJs: If they're males, they come off as pussies to me. If they're females, they can be very flaky unless they fall head-over-heels for no objectively obvious reason. Then they come up with some reason in their head to stick with a relationship that is really unhealthy or should never have happened in the first place. And after everything goes wrong, they get really jaded.
Both: Both types are notoriously pigheaded and hate to feel "controlled". They will still do what they're told to do though, and usually do the task rather well. Both jump to conclusions rather quickly, although INFJs usually manifest more doubt later on.
I've never been aware of it before, but I definitely had that tendency a lot when I was younger and probably still every once in a while today.
Both tend to be perfectionists on some level or another, although the intensity of this varies and tends to concentrate itself in specific areas of life.
To go further: I can't speak for other INTJs, but typically, people get all up in my shit when I'm wrong. It's pretty aggravating because, usually, I'm trying to cover for someone else's egregious mistakes in an effort to prevent the entirety of something from going south. It has the unfortunate side effect of perpetuating itself; by covering for whatever, I'm "acting" (in quotations because it's unintentional) like I have all the answers, so people expect me to be right, but if I'm wrong/let something fail, a lot of the responsibility will be placed on my shoulders because I 'should have done something.'
To go further: I can't speak for other INTJs, but typically, people get all up in my shit when I'm wrong. It's pretty aggravating because, usually, I'm trying to cover for someone else's egregious mistakes in an effort to prevent the entirety of something from going south. It has the unfortunate side effect of perpetuating itself; by covering for whatever, I'm "acting" (in quotations because it's unintentional) like I have all the answers, so people expect me to be right, but if I'm wrong/let something fail, a lot of the responsibility will be placed on my shoulders because I 'should have done something.'
Guilty as charged.
Interesting observation -- I never would have described myself or my fellow INFJ female friends as "flaky" (normally that's a designation I reserve for my dear ENTPs!) :-0
That said....I've gotten busted a number or times with others for "checking-out" when I do not feel motivated or inspired to do something or be somewhere. If I feel a strong intuition to do/not do something that I feel will best promote my emotional well-being, or my need to be true to myself or others, practicality and duty will have a diminished voice in overriding that decision.
And maybe the flip side is that, once I've decided on a certain emotional course that I intuitively decided will fulfill some inspiration I felt, the J in me compels me to see it through. Hence sticking in non-productive relationships that I have convinced myself I want, even if rationally I know in the back of my mind they are not the right thing....
Also, I *hate* feeling controlled or bossed around by arbitrary authority. And I really hate watching bossypants people do it to others. Normally I am so diplomatic and graceful in dealing with people, and everyone thinks I have this zen sense. But you will see a very unexpected, if not aggressive, side of me come forward when I am defending against perceived bullying towards myself or others. I will verbally rip your head off if I feel inappropriately controlled.
In that sense -- the desire for autonomy and space to be intellectually and creatively free -- I think we are kindred spirits to you ENTPs! We make good sidekicks in staging rebellions against SJs....
That said....I've gotten busted a number or times with others for "checking-out" when I do not feel motivated or inspired to do something or be somewhere. If I feel a strong intuition to do/not do something that I feel will best promote my emotional well-being, or my need to be true to myself or others, practicality and duty will have a diminished voice in overriding that decision.
And maybe the flip side is that, once I've decided on a certain emotional course that I intuitively decided will fulfill some inspiration I felt, the J in me compels me to see it through. Hence sticking in non-productive relationships that I have convinced myself I want, even if rationally I know in the back of my mind they are not the right thing....
Also, I *hate* feeling controlled or bossed around by arbitrary authority. And I really hate watching bossypants people do it to others. Normally I am so diplomatic and graceful in dealing with people, and everyone thinks I have this zen sense. But you will see a very unexpected, if not aggressive, side of me come forward when I am defending against perceived bullying towards myself or others. I will verbally rip your head off if I feel inappropriately controlled.
In that sense -- the desire for autonomy and space to be intellectually and creatively free -- I think we are kindred spirits to you ENTPs! We make good sidekicks in staging rebellions against SJs....
My brother and one of my best friends are INTJ. We click very well on an intellectual level, and I appreciate their presence more than most other people. They are one of the few people who understand where I'm coming from and share my search for meaning.
However:
1) They do react strongly when told they are wrong. I just remember my brother flipping out when we tried to advise him on personal matters, or my friend getting annoyed when I gave him suggestions on how to improve his Starcraft 2 game
2) Not so much as a fault but an area to work on, INTJs tend to manage their romantic/social life poorly. Probably because of Fe, but I am much more aware of how I treat people and the impact of my behavior. I know that they don't connect with most people because I feel the same way, but they don't help themselves by alienating/dismissing people who could potentially be a support network for them, personally or professionally.
However:
1) They do react strongly when told they are wrong. I just remember my brother flipping out when we tried to advise him on personal matters, or my friend getting annoyed when I gave him suggestions on how to improve his Starcraft 2 game
2) Not so much as a fault but an area to work on, INTJs tend to manage their romantic/social life poorly. Probably because of Fe, but I am much more aware of how I treat people and the impact of my behavior. I know that they don't connect with most people because I feel the same way, but they don't help themselves by alienating/dismissing people who could potentially be a support network for them, personally or professionally.
certainly. I'll post them to you. haha! =D
haha! =D
I find humour in your editing out the details which you thought was irrelevant to the original question of this thread. :3
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