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I had a realization five seconds ago about the different nuances of criticality. I always assumed being critical of yourself and/or others was more of a type 1 thing, until I realized what I was critical of was also very important.

For example.. I'm hardly ever critical of myself and others in the moral sense. I'm not really concerned with whether or not X is a good person or not, their integrity, their principles, how they're living their life, and the like. I never think about that kind of stuff, and it doesn't really matter to me. The things I'm usually critical of are the following:

1. Identity/authenticity: If someone severely lacks self-awareness, if they're not honest to themselves, if they're not being genuine, if they're trying too hard to come across a certain way, if I get the impression they're masking their true thoughts/opinions, etc.

2. Image: If someone's acting in a way that's embarrassing them, and they're not aware of it. I feel ashamed on their behalf, literally, and kind of annoyed that they're so unaware. :frustrating:

3. Competency: If someone doesn't know what they're doing, especially in something basic, I can't help but be critical.

What are you critical of? Do you see any correlations between what triggers your critical voice and your enneagram core/tritype?
 

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I had a realization five seconds ago about the different nuances of criticality. I always assumed being critical of yourself and/or others was more of a type 1 thing, until I realized what I was critical of was also very important.

For example.. I'm hardly ever critical of myself and others in the moral sense. I'm not really concerned with whether or not X is a good person or not, their integrity, their principles, how they're living their life, and the like. I never think about that kind of stuff, and it doesn't really matter to me. The things I'm usually critical of are the following:

1. Identity/authenticity: If someone severely lacks self-awareness, if they're not honest to themselves, if they're not being genuine, if they're trying too hard to come across a certain way, if I get the impression they're masking their true thoughts/opinions, etc.

2. Image: If someone's acting in a way that's embarrassing them, and they're not aware of it. I feel ashamed on their behalf, literally, and kind of annoyed that they're so unaware. :frustrating:

3. Competency: If someone doesn't know what they're doing, especially in something basic, I can't help but be critical.

What are you critical of? Do you see any correlations between what triggers your critical voice and your enneagram core/tritype?
Well, define "critical".
As I am unsure of my type then I can't really answer, but I can answer for my enneagram 3 sister.
My enneagram 3 sister is extremely critical of everyone who isn't doing their very best. People who just relax and don't care about school or such will antagonize her to no end. She's the kind of person who wants A in all subjects and is almost hostile towards anyone who hopes for less.
This actually causes a really intriguing dynamic between us as I am exactly what she can't take. I aim to get E in all subjects and don't care (tho would be happy) about getting better grades. I take it easy and relax, I spend time I should be studying doing other things. I sometimes post things on facebook that freaks her out because she thinks it hurts my image (as in future employers watching my profile).

When she questioned me about my grades because I didn't get high grades (as in, I got Ds and Es) and she asked me why I hadn't gotten any As and I said I didn't really care as long as I completed the education she was like "So what? They want shitty social workers? *annoyed chuckle*".
 

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An excellent question. I think oftentimes we assume everybody is critical of the same kinds of things we are critical of (such as stupid people), and forget that there are individual differences even in the negatives.

Personally, I am critical of people who promise me something that is inconsistent with their prior behavior. Somebody who says they'll take some action when everything they've shown me so far screams to the contrary.

I can also be critical of people who act on my behalf. This ties in with the first point; I rarely see people act with me as their first priority, so when it does occur I am the first to suspect ulterior motives (some sort of personal gain end game on their end).

I am critical of factual claims made that do not run consistent with my experience/knowledge, even if the person making the claim is a trusted friend. The only exception to this is if the subject of the claim is far removed from my field of knowledge. I am generally willing to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to subjects in their field of speacialty.

I am usually critical of outcomes, especially if the projected or promoted result is different than what matches past experiences/current knowledge. The critical attitude disappears as soon as the outcome actually occurs, at which point I make a mental adjustment based on reaffirmation of or new knowledge gained.

Fortunately, I don't take a sour grapes approach to things when I work. More a "hope for the best, expect the worst, and remember that chocolate and time fix everything" mindset.
 

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That is an interesting question, I feel like there will be a huge divergence based on people's types.

Personally what I am most critical of, and am most internally judgmental of, is whether people respect other's boundaries. For instance, if someone gets angry and lets their anger boil over so they are being rude to others. Or if someone is randomly critical of another person, or is trying to speak for another person as if they know what they are thinking. For me that kind of behavior is unacceptable, and I will lose respect for that person.

Otherwise, I have a "different strokes for different folks" attitude, I really am not too concerned about judging other people's choices or lifestyles.
 

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Excellent questions.

What are you critical of? Do you see any correlations between what triggers your critical voice and your enneagram core/tritype?
I use the word critical as a catch-all phrase. In some cases, I mean intolerant. I'll specify when this is the case. Generally, I tend to be pretty damn laid back and accepting.

1. Incompetence


I can't fuckin stand incompetence. I can't stand people who churn out half-assed work. I expect people to do their best, and be competitive and hard working. I, also, can't stand a person who is talking out of their ass and doesn't know it or continues to spew rubbish despite the awareness they're starkly deficient in anything even remotely resembling "expertise" or even working knowledge of a subject.

I take special pleasure kicking these damn fools in the ass, hard. Professionally, I will rein in my anger for pragmatic reasons and deal with people even-handedly up to a point. But, pushing your luck is a bad idea. I expect improvements within a reasonable amount of time.

(This one is related to 3 [some 1 overlaps because of competency issues], 8)


2. Spinelessness


I am quite intolerant of this. This includes a whole variety of things, some I tolerate better than others---

xx being wishy-washy
xx not having an opinion on anything, ever
xx fleeing the scene after you've stirred shit
xx not taking accountability for your decisions (woe is me types)
xx displaying sugar-coated dishonesty
xx backing off too easily, quite obviously because you can't stand the heat
xx not standing up to me or anyone else
xx not taking control of your life
xx losing your shit at the drop of a hat
xx judgmental hypocrisy
xx callous indifference
xx habitual mistrust
xx being easily swayed/ repeatedly displaying obvious bias or inability to act objectively because a person is too "emotional" or just plain stupid.
xx violations of personal boundaries and trust, such as cheating on a spouse


:laughing: It's SO much fun to verbally bitch slap such people. It's way too entertaining.

(Much of this is a mix of 8 with slight 1ish overlap.)


3. Someone taking credit for my work, particularly in a major project, but I don't like this in general. Gurl, don't get me started on this one. I've been compelled to grab people by their hair and drag them screaming through office corridors over this. :laughing:. Bless my patience and pragmatism. This makes me angry instantly.

(primarily 3
)

4. I covered it above somewhat, but I really have no patience for people who mope around too much. I get that people should experience their emotions fully and so on. However, lack of productivity doesn't go down well with me. Schedule your grieving/moping around, and then get your ass working. On that note, I don't like people who are always serious and barely ever laugh. Stick in the mud types annoy me.

(7,3,8)

5. I absolutely LOVE it when someone who has achieved great things of their own will power and determination talks openly about their conquests. I love people who own their confidence and their achievements. But wimpy lil shits who get everything served on a platter thinking they've done something praiseworthy are asking for mockery. I laugh off people who have nothing show for.

(3,8, hints of 1)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
@Boss

Ohh, spinelessness gets to me as well, so much! Here's something that drives me up the wall: my sister would get me all worked up about my parents (usually I'd be already aware of this and that behavior but not annoyed enough to create conflict over it). I'd march in there ready to confront them, supposedly along with her.. and then she'd back out. Halfway through the argument, she'd give up and take their side and just be like 'Just let it go, Kalei' when I was dead set on changing their minds. It infuriates me whenever she does that. To me, it demonstrates weakness of character. If you want something badly, fight for it. Don't get someone else to do it for you and then back out shortly afterwards.
 

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@Boss

Ohh, spinelessness gets to me as well, so much! Here's something that drives me up the wall: my sister would get me all worked up about my parents (usually I'd be already aware of this and that behavior but not annoyed enough to create conflict over it). I'd march in there ready to confront them, supposedly along with her.. and then she'd back out. Halfway through the argument, she'd give up and take their side and just be like 'Just let it go, Kalei' when I was dead set on changing their minds. It infuriates me whenever she does that. To me, it demonstrates weakness of character. If you want something badly, fight for it. Don't get someone else to do it for you and then back out shortly afterwards.

It definitely demonstrates wimpiness. I have a special place in my hateful lil heart for people who lack follow through and back out at the slightest hint of confrontation or unpleasantness. On that note, I also find people who hide behind someone's skirt, because they don't have the balls to relay their own opinion, pretty damn moronic.
 

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I'm not overcritical with the life of others, I don't walk in their shoes, so I can not really be a fair judge on their choices. I can just be critical of interaction in relation with myself or people I care for, and there, of course are points, which I cannot stand:

- behaviour, where between talking and doing is quite great gap - and I fall into that gap. I don't mind if people mess up with their lives, but I don't like, if they mess with mine. I had a hart time to straighten things out by myself and won't suffer someone toying with me. With me, trust is everything. When I can really trust somebody, I can indulge a lot of quirks (have much of them myself :cool:).
- Manipulation of any kind, but especially the subtle-aggressive emotional kind, which is hard to confront head on
- people who draw on my strength without giving back in the same measure
 

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I suppose, broadly speaking, I'm critical of decisions people make. Their reasonings and their actions. What they decide to value, how they decide to interpret a system, how they decide to handle a situation.

As a person who is highly critical yet strives to be more inclusive, I find this difficult to answer >_> It's important, though. I need to think about this more.
 

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I'm hardly ever critical of myself and others in the moral sense. I'm not really concerned with whether or not X is a good person or not, their integrity, their principles, how they're living their life, and the like.
You just described what I'm critical of.
 
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You know, what's difficult about answering this separating what I am critical over and what simply irritates me and causes a reaction. I'm not usually critical over a long stretch of time - it's more a case of "what the hell" or "this person is really pissing me off." Still:


1.) Duplicity
: I can see right through that tissue paper mask of yours dumbfuck, so rip it off yourself before I do it in front of everyone else you're trying to dupe. This is where criticism and rage intertwine. There is nothing that winds me up more than people who are actively trying to hide something about themselves that ought to be kept open for everyone's benefit. Don't smile at me if you don't like me - draw the line and I promise I won't be hurt, and we may even be able to sort it out. I don't mind people who don't know where they stand - but I do mind people who try and disorient you as to where they stand. You are a liar and believe me I won't play the game for a minute.

2.) Lack of grit: the key to this is that I am not critical of people who don't make it seem as though they should be able to handle something difficult and cannot. It's when they demand respect up front but fail to support it later. I have no issue admitting this is something I am very critical of myself over. I'm not sure of things by default; it takes a lot of behind the scenes weighing to get there, and if I don't do that beforehand I should have. If I am not critical of myself or others here, it won't improve.

This is actually where I am different from the people who hate incompetency. If you are incompetent, just say so we can move forward.

3.) Clinging to the familiar or structural: this is actually the one thing I am not angry, but critical over frequently. It happens a lot in a group setting, where the focus of the consensus is extremely narrow and not following a line of ration that directs the overall directive in a way that accounts for future challenges. The focus is on logistics and simple things that can be easily managed once the bigger direction is chosen. I don't care about what color font the website should have, and we sure as hell shouldn't be wasting time on deciding it before determining what features the website will have to give it an advantage over others. Don't tell me we can't do something because a rule says so. Rule schmule. Have you questioned the person who wrote it? If you haven't I will ​in place of your spinelessness.

The criticism ends up being of the sheeplicity of the group as a whole.
 

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I'm also critical of people who forces their standards/ideals on everyone else and/or thinks everyone has to follow their standards/ideals, which in turn makes me a hypocrite. But still, life would be better if everyone just minded their own business. (God, my hypocrisy is showing.)
 

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You know, what's difficult about answering this separating what I am critical over and what simply irritates me and causes a reaction. I'm not usually critical over a long stretch of time - it's more a case of "what the hell" or "this person is really pissing me off."
Yeah actually, now that I think about it, even the things I listed are more a matter of "this pisses me off" in the moment as opposed to something I could rant about *endlessly*. Still, I think it just means we can brush it off more easily than people who get all worked up.

I've seen you post about becoming more critical when you disintegrate to 1. Would you say that's different from what you listed?
 
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I've seen you post about becoming more critical when you disintegrate to 1. Would you say that's different from what you listed?
Well, as you have mentioned for 4's, and I'd believe this to be the case of many introverted or Sp 7's, the criticism is more directed inward. "You're an idiot, you should have done this" or "that should have been obvious" or "everyone around you can do this, and you can't." The really bad episodes are when everything around you seems like it's a candidate to be drawn out as having "something fundamentally missing," which triggers a sense that you cannot control your own level of satisfaction with your environment, and therefore, your id to search for more in terrified projection.

In a less extreme example, I would posit this is when frustration types on PerC change between radically different types to identify with (4's who think they're 8's, 7's who change to 5's, etc). You must find the answer.

The above may be mini-episodes of disintegration, even if it's a less personal way of being "critical." The criticism occurs on a more micro level. It's difficult to tell if our triad's frustration is common across the three and more critical with 1's, or if elements of the 1 itself are in all three types, as we don't have a lot of information to equate microcritique and full-fledged projective criticism. As a 4, your take would add a lot :)
 

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Neat question. As a whole I don't get bothered enough by people to be critical of them but will take notice of some thing which bother me in other.

Such as those whom are close minded and stubborn in their beliefs like they hold the truth and can't be swayed from it.

People who seem very self absorbed as if they are unaware of their relation to the world around them can put me off to.

Those whom don't appear to think for themselves.
 

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People who can't admit they have a problem, but I mostly hit a "critical" point in this one when they're throwing other people under the bus in some fashion over it all (whether blaming other people for the problem or hurting them with the problem).

People who I'd call cruel/harsh.

Users who take advantage of other people.

Liars, mostly if they do it to people who they have closer bonds with.

Shitty parents.
 
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