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Discussion Starter #1
Long time no post :crazy:
Anyways, I just came back from a month long intensive teen art program at a fairly well-known art university. I've seen and learned a lot there. Not to mention meeting tons of interesting folks.
People always talk about how pretentious art can be, and some people say modern art is a lot of hype over meaning that isn't there. Of course being perceiving I'm not sure what to think of all this and am curious to hear what others have to say about pretentiousness in general.
 

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Pretension is a pet-peeve of mine.


I really can't stand intellectual pretension most of all. I went to art school, and later started a degree in English Literature. The experience was short-lived because I got utterly sick and tired of all the self-aggrandising pomposity.

The arts are a tricky area because they are entirely subjective. You can say something is well-put together - a technically proficient piece of music or a finely-painted landscape - but that doesn't always make it "good". It doesn't always make it matter to people. The wonderful thing about art is that what strikes us, what moves us, what we get from it, it is all highly personal. So I am constantly disgusted by people trying to elevate their own personal likes over everyone else's. I abhor the creativity-stymying, self-propagated rules and trends laid in place by whatever vogueish elite's opinions are given exposure.

Art and creativity are not a product to selfishly package and brand with some snobbish, innately meaningless sense of "worth". It is the free realm of human expression, and free it should stay.


Yeah, that's how I feel about it.
 

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I hate pretentious people.

I'm so much better than them.

:tongue:

In all seriousness, I find it annoying, but I think I come off to others as such.
 

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What does pretentiousness even mean?

You could define it as "ambition without the competence required to achieve said ambitions". But in a field as subjective as art, who is to say what competence is? You can't empirically measure the quality of a piece of art, therefore you can't objectively call it pretentious.

Another definition is the display of a certain kind of behavior with the sole intent of coming across as more interesting, intelligent and cultured than you actually are (this post? nah). Sure, that's not the most desirable personality trait, but it's no different from any other kind of insincere behavior. Basically, calling someone like that pretentious is just a fancy way of calling them a poser, which in itself is kind of pretentious if you think about it :p
 

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I was once called pretentious for criticizing the annoying buzzwords that they repeatedly use in sports broadcasting.

I have yet to hear the word used in a constructive way and and it normally seems to be a way to ignore an attempt at intelligent discussion.

I suppose what I would consider pretentious is when people tell you that your opinion on a subjective subject is wrong. I have no problem with them trying to convince you that they are right but to state that someone is wrong (without a valid argument) is different....

I do notice that people seemingly subconsciously make everything seem harder than it actually is to make things sound more impressive (either that or they have a different view of difficulty than me)
 
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Regarding definitions of "pretentiouness", I go with: "an inflated sense of self-worth/ego derived from inherently subjective justifications" or "actions/behaviour with the implicit intent of gratifying one's ego". Consider the "Emperor's New Clothes" as the ultimate deconstruction of pretentiousness.


Some dictionary definitions:

Noun1.pretentiousness - lack of elegance as a consequence of being pompous and puffed up with vanity

2.pretentiousness - the quality of being pretentious (behaving or speaking in such a manner as to create a false appearance of great importance or worth)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The thing I find with pretentiousness is that it tries to make the naked emperor look like he's wearing something that he really isn't. On that note, the trouble with pretentiousness in general is that it's very analytical and disregards intuition. Sometimes you instinctively know that the emperor looks naked and is naked and such instincts are disregarded by the art world and much of society in general now.

But then I realize that if read and interpreted in a certain way, my opinion is kind of pretentious and argh I've thought myself back into a loop of sorts :bored:
 

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Long time no post :crazy:
Anyways, I just came back from a month long intensive teen art program at a fairly well-known art university. I've seen and learned a lot there. Not to mention meeting tons of interesting folks.
People always talk about how pretentious art can be, and some people say modern art is a lot of hype over meaning that isn't there. Of course being perceiving I'm not sure what to think of all this and am curious to hear what others have to say about pretentiousness in general.
I find the compulsion to provoke a reaction generally pretentious and unnatural. Some people dress flashily to achieve an effect, others reference lofty philosophers. Whichever mode of expression you choose, doing anything solely for a rise in the audience is phony and possibly pretentious. Although a writer like Faulkner or Shakespeare uses big and occasionally arcane words, neither writes primarily to impress the audience; therefore, a Faulkner shouldn't be considered pretentious. One is either a good or bad writer; the perception or charge of pretentiousness by certain groups doesn't dilute the material.
 

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The true appreciation that once existed for art and creativity is general has been convoluted and warped by the elite who "think" they know what they are talking about. A primary example of this is the pretentiousness that exists within a lot of the upper class society in many countries.

The dawn of the information age brought many benefits, one of the biggest weaknesses of it though was that it made people believe that anyone can be a creator, anyone can be an artist, anyone can design. The truth of the matter is that no, not everyone can do this no matter how many sources you borrow from or how many internet searches you do. You are still not a creator merely a manipulator and a consumer of the already creative.

The true free expression that exists within us all comes directly from within shaped by our ideas and then fine tuned by external factors.

Sorry for the tangent, I simply can't abide by the useless and pretentious people that exist in the world today and the under appreciation of the creative class.
 
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Lol oh. This is an interesting topic.. I think that I can be very pretentious and it took a long while to get there. When I've been through something or been perceptive enough to understand what's going on. I like to speak and act from a place of authority. I tend to be unquestionably magnificent at deciphering the constructs of what we may call life, just so I can rampage on through my journey shooting torpedoes and laser beams of mass destruction at any opposing foe.

I'm not really sure how it happened either. It was like a voice, from the heavens above. From a burning bush if you will. And it said, "Do your thing maan. Who gives a fuck what these naysayers think."

And to anyone else reading this.. gatorade me bitches :)
 

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The thing I find with pretentiousness is that it tries to make the naked emperor look like he's wearing something that he really isn't. On that note, the trouble with pretentiousness in general is that it's very analytical and disregards intuition. Sometimes you instinctively know that the emperor looks naked and is naked and such instincts are disregarded by the art world and much of society in general now.

But then I realize that if read and interpreted in a certain way, my opinion is kind of pretentious and argh I've thought myself back into a loop of sorts :bored:
Or you can look at it this way too. If you think that something is pretentious it just means that you are not where that other person is, and what they value most, or connect to emotionally at that point in time. Sometimes it is okay to be in that empire state of mind (Fi), but other times, you need to get off the tower and see the people below in the street. (Te)

For art, whichever direction you want to go into, you need to connect with the "collective consciousness", or otherwise you have to strike out on your own and actually "do your own thing" (by intuition). To me, I could tell in my industry of IT, which was which wave. By the time I connected myself to that wave, another wave came along already and swept me off track. Sometimes the industry moves so fast that you gotta catch where it is going.. but to have a fully fulfilled life, it is obvious to really be yourself and enjoy life too.

I thought that those art pieces like the ones by Tracy Emin was not likeable at all. I found it vulgar to be honest. And if I lived in London, then yes, I "may" connect to that, but in the UK, of only 70 million people, people did not live her lifestyle, and really what her art represented her path in life during HER lifetime. It does not, well.. on a global scale, you may say that her lifestyle may represent how the world will be in the future especially as more and more countries are Westernised.

Art to me is a document of history. It does not always mean that it is applicable everywhere. Sellable art has a social documentary value... To be best at Self, then you got to go into mania, or deep Fi and continous loop in Ne in order to produce the most wonderful pieces.. and these are accorlade of one's life history and achievements. People with money buy this cos they are buying a piece of your soul.

At one point, it was Art which saved me connect back to my Fi soul.. :) So I kind of went a "bit deep" into this whole topic and saw it from outside of the Art world. I thought it was really interesting ! :D


Added: Another thought: Damien Hirst is really a socialist of socialism... lol. His art work documents Life in general, but then he topped the actual life itself by participating. His work for those large diamond pieces may be quite out there, but then again it is also a representation of current society as a whole full of money, wealthy economy.
 

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I think pretentiousness is at least half of musicians Craigslist

I can't really explain it, but when you check an ad and you automatically think, "eww these guys sound like douchebags," that's because you just read a piece of pretentiousness.

Also, Pitchfork hipsters.

lol
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I thought that those art pieces like the ones by Tracy Emin was not likeable at all. I found it vulgar to be honest. And if I lived in London, then yes, I "may" connect to that, but in the UK, of only 70 million people, people did not live her lifestyle, and really what her art represented her path in life during HER lifetime. It does not, well.. on a global scale, you may say that her lifestyle may represent how the world will be in the future especially as more and more countries are Westernised.
On the subject of Tracy Emin-esque art such as her "unmade bed", my mom (ESTJ) made an interesting point. She said that Emin was an idiot for thinking that an unmade bed was art, and that critics/art snobs were also idiots for making a big deal out of it and let alone noticing it in the first place.
 

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On the subject of Tracy Emin-esque art such as her "unmade bed", my mom (ESTJ) made an interesting point. She said that Emin was an idiot for thinking that an unmade bed was art, and that critics/art snobs were also idiots for making a big deal out of it and let alone noticing it in the first place.
That piece was more metaphorical and a more a historical viewpoint as well as it really kind of reflects her life, which was this kind of aggressive London single fast lane kind of lifestyle? A lot of people thought that the 90s in the UK really occurred that way, but obviously, Art in the UK is also a supposed "part" of culture which is what the "media" thinks will happen to the general public. A lot of really traditional art critics really disliked her work as it really was... nonsense, but it does show how detached it seems at the time, but in a way, you may also say that sometimes artists picks up the future wave of events to come. Yet, how true is the kind of a typical lifestyle of an artist already is now a way of life even post 2000 ? As globalisation picks up, most people live that way too. Add another 20 years, it will seems like a reflection of the history of that period then. Then therefore her pieces once again will go up in price too... The ones by Damien Hirst and also the circle of life of flies are the same as well. It is pretty metaphorical in nature.
 

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I've probably taken a liking to pieces of art that may have been created by or at least promoted by a pretentious artist. If I like what I experience in the art, I just like it and call it art.
As far as pretentious people, I see them as people who wear on their sleeves the space they can empty their ego out of for the love of Allah to fill with authenticity.
 

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I think people who don't have to be pretentious are more empowered than those who do. If I encounter someone who's put on & showy I'm guessing that something's missing that they feel a need to compensate for.
 

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We are all pretentious at times in our life, if we weren't, we'd probably be dead! Just imagine thinking something and having the onus to always express it to remain consistent with authenticity. It's simply not possible to be 100% authentic.
 

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I absolutely love art and it's very important to me and a large part of who I am and what path I want to pursue.

That being said, I dropped art school and never looked back.

I think art is good, art is healthy, art is useful. Art should be anything but abrasive.

I think what makes art pretentious is when people take it to the 10th power and multiply that a couple times over. (Basically having an asshole disposition about art).

What ruined me ever wanting to pursue art in college (which was my absolute first pick out of high school) was those darn critiques and the instructors. I had a couple instructors who got downright ABRASIVE when critiquing. Mind you, I agree that art is a discipline and there are principles that we should be aware of. I had no problem with hearing objective and technical feedback, I appreciated it actually! But what irked me is when instructors get all douchy and turnt up when critiquing. Raising their voices, questioning things in a condescending way, just being AGGRESSIVE about ART. I think it got to the point where I just sat to myself and thought "why the fuck are we getting riled up and yelled at over ART?" Yes, the real world out there can be even harder and clients will give douchebag professors a run for their money, but why do we have to be assholes when an encouraging environment can help us grow even more? Epiphany and I'm glad I listened to myself and bounced. Yea, I could've stuck it out, but I might've hated art even more had I stayed in.

Not to sound like a sensitive Sally, but I just can't roll with the art school environment I experienced. To me pretentiousness is being an asshole over things that are less significant when compared to human relations. In typical INFP fashion, tactfulness, being emotionally aware of others and ourselves, and good human relations are more important to me than even my greatest interest, art.


In a nutshell:A good comparison to think about what pretentiousness is and isn't is......

"No one's shit smells better than anyone else's"


:D
 
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