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Reading up on Infps and meeting them, most do tend to find themselves to be socially awkward (although you know, im sure theres some who dont). Im trying to understand where Infp social problems stem from exactly in relation to their function stack.
 

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I've had social anxiety for probably the better part of my life... It doesn't feel like real, paranoid anxiety and so using the word "anxiety" to describe my problem feels a little weird... I mean I'm not generally afraid of someone stabbing me or robbing me or anything like that, I'm only afraid they won't like me or they will be mad at me and exclude and judge me harshly, that kind of thing. I suppose part of it could be a lack of fe? because I don't know what other people want me to do, I know my values more than I know about social morals, traditions, etc. I suppose that's where ne should come in, to help exchange ideas and to understand where both you and the other are coming from... but it's hard to branch out that much and be so open to them if you're already scared of them, I guess.
 

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Okay I could write a novel on this topic.

I've been a shy, quiet person all my life. The kid who rarely spoke in class. My social anxiety manifested noticeably when I was 15, which if I remember correctly is the average age for onset. It's frustrating when I feel like I cannot translate my thoughts into words that make sense for others. There's usually a disconnect there. This struggle makes for all kinds of socially awkward situations that I don't feel represent how I think. My Fi focuses too much on itself, and my self-consciousness kind of just explodes with Ne thinking all the things that could go wrong with what I want to say, Si remembers what went wrong, all the while Te is yelling at me for not being good enough. :crazy:

It takes a lot for me to actually feel like socializing. I have to be very sleep-deprived lol

Otherwise, I never feel like socializing. The good thing about it is that it helps me sleep, though, so I will do it to fix my schedule. Nothing makes me pass out like socializing with people all day long. By contrast, if I just wrote all day, like...this, it's very different.

I have lessened the problem with some different mind tricks I've explored in my own mind that work for me, but I still flare when I overthink.

What helps me is a combination of these:

- Pick a person, any person, and imagine myself as that person and not myself. I am out of my own body, it no longer matters.

- Focus on a value in the moment that makes me feel passionate. The intensity of this emotion works for me to cancel out the fear.

- Flooding my thoughts with, "This is your life, be assertive, be dominant, get what you want." Over and over and over again. I have to really hammer this into my skull because I am a very passive, timid kinda person.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
@AshOrLey @psyche

Thanks for your responses :)
So would you say you ever have worries about saying the wrong thing in a way that hurts people’s feelings or are you quite ok in that area but find more difficulty in forming and sustaining relationships based on inner insecurity about things like rejection?
No judgement btw
 
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For me, a few reasons, but I'm not sure it's the function stacking that diminishes the social skills:

- Social anxiety. I think that speaks for itself.

- Lack of experience/pleasure. I don't talk very much, and don't know how to communicate in different occasions. I'm probably much better at formal conversations with people I don't know, than casual. Also, I don't find much stimulation in conversations, so if I can't leave, I do as much I can to keep the other person talking about themself. If I feel I have to talk about myself too much or for too long, I start looking for a scapegoat.

- I spend so much time alone, I forget how to socialise. Sometimes I'd go weeks without socialising with anyone, and throughout that time I might be reading the works of Jane Austen, so when I come to communicating with others of the same species as myself, I sound far too proper. I will use archaic dialogue and words people have never heard of, which doesn't synergise with those around me. At times there is a patronising tone in my voice from that dialogue which I can't consciously control.

- Too stuck in my own head it blocks out what the other person is saying, (but this occurs more in small talk.) If I'm sitting alone, I sit there for a reason and start daydreaming or listening to music; if somebody comes along to talk to me for no apparent reason, I get very annoyed at them and show no compassion.​

Maybe this is an enneagram thing rather than an INFP one, because I honestly believe that if I had more confidence in myself, I could have quite a charming, charismatic use of speech. I'm a good listener, have decent vocabulary, quite poetical, that I'm sure if I put myself out there more, there won't be any problems. Social anxiety is my fundamental defect.

So would you say you ever have worries about saying the wrong thing in a way that hurts people’s feelings or are you quite ok in that area but find more difficulty in forming and sustaining relationships based on inner insecurity about things like rejection?
Hah, not always. I can be pretty blatant depending on the circumstances. It's usually after I've spoken do I think, I could have said that a bit nicer, so I follow it with something constructive to avoid looking like a jerk. I never lie to please, though, nor do I sugar coat. Honesty is the best policy, as they say, but I'm never rude about it.
 

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"in relation to their function stack"

I don't have much idea in this case, I had never thought about this. Let me think about it as I type:
A lot of my social problems (outside of my loved ones) have to do with environment (Se) and not knowing what to do in terms of actions/speaking (Te), so that's a recipe for disaster.

Whenever I enter a social situation, I have added stress because of hyperalertness of the physical space and how I'm going to physically fuck up or die. For this reason, I'm way more socially comfy if I'm meeting a stranger in a coffee shop I've been to many times, than if we meet at a coffee place I've never been to before. In this last scenario I'll actually subconsciously use the person as a shield to figure out how to interact with my environment, and this figureout-ation takes time, so I look unavailable for conversation and closed off and the person wonders if I hate them. That's where I'm perceived as awkward and bad conversationalist.
I won't make the shield-usation obvious, but I know it's happening, I'll let them lead everything, cause if someone's going to die, I refuse that it'd be me. They should die first xD
So if I'm using them as shield, how in the world can I have a relaxed conversation? They're an object at that point, not a person, and my mind isn't super present because my anxiety is perceiving all sorts of threats everywhere. Even the waiter is a threat. This whole thing is what happens when Si has nothing to work with, and obvsly Se is a toddler trying to function but can't.

I need to find my place in the physical environment. I need certainty that way. So in contrast to the above situation, my favourite way of socializing is to have people come over to my house. That's the place I know best, and when I'm so physically safe then strangers can come and I'll be amazing at conversation, charming, lovely, aproachable, all the good things. Because I have nothing else to worry about but the person in front of me. It is when I feel Si comfortable, that my Ne launches its rockets and I can be myself.

With strangers, Fi doesn't feel comfortable though, like I'll avoid topics, I'll omit information, I won't be truly truly connecting with the other person. They're not seeing the part of me that is Fi, they are seeing the Ne part, and so they get this image of me that I'm hilarious, witty, eccentric and knowledgeable about many things. And they stick to that image of me, they believe this is who I am and that I am harmless.
But when I grow more comfortable with the person over time (takes days, weeks, months), Fi begins to let stuff out, and it's such an intense contrast with the Ne person (Ne person is carefree, rainbowy, witty, easygoing) that they have in their minds, that they get grossed out by the new person that seems to be emerging, and they run away. So that's one of my biggest social handicaps, so to speak, that when I'm ready to go deep, other people get spooked.

Going back to the situation with strangers, I try to make myself invisible. Because of the "what's my right place?" thing. I think Fe also contributes to this. Don't know how it does, but probably it does. I need to sniff around and figure out the most physically comfortable place first, and so I will choose seats that are far away from the main action, I'll sit at the back of the room, or in a corner of the livingroom, anywhere where I can be invisible, observe, and see the territory in front of me as I find my own Si safe place. And Fe is sniffing around veeeery slowly figuring out the group dynamic and what my place in it is. But I will almost never feel my Fe place. I always feel like an outcast (Fi), like I'm physically there but that I don't belong. This doesn't happen with my loved ones, only with acquaintances, strangers, and even friends. I always feel detached and non-belonging. I think people smell this in me.

After an hour of feeling Si Fe comfy, I begin to feel confident, and I'll begin to participate in the group conversation voluntarily. But if someone asks me something directly, puts me on the spotlight, and I'm expected to talk out of the blue, this is going to be a huge problem, so I'll be perceived as weird, awkward, what is wrong with her.
 

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I don't have too many problems socially except when I don't feel like befriending a particular group of people. That's an attitude issue. Other than that, I find that talking to one person(especially if they have group ties) opens up an opportunity for me to do very well in social settings. One person leads to another.

My biggest issues:
1. Eye contact. I get self-conscious because of my shifty eye contact.
2. Empathizing with people, but being blind in their relationship to me. Yes, we laughed for a very long time together, but do they consider me a friend?
3. Remembering names... I do better if I see them around, learn their name, and then talk to them.
4. When I accidentally help build a social climate that is awkward. If I talk one-on-one for too long, I feel unable to open up the group to new people. I feel some kind of dedication to the person, even though I could be very bored with them by that point.
5. Getting bored with people rather quickly because I judge them too fast. I feel like chemistry is something you can judge pretty quickly, but I feel like I should still try to have a good time with people who I don't have chemistry with.
6. Maybe, maybe I tease and joke around too much sometimes!
 

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I'm not sure on the social awkwardness most INFPs experience but personally it is mostly the pauses, word adjustments, the visible frustration at the quality of articulation from expressing my internal world after it has been infused with empathy and relayed into group interaction. Unlike 1-on-1 interaction, groups are in a state of dynamism or at least much more so; the rate at which i'm making unconscious judgements increases (may vary subject to mood) so it becomes more of an exercise to oversee those judgements, and apply the empathy needed to have these judgements be received well since upsetting people upsets me. Unless, it leads to something good and i feel that... then i will express how i really feel.

The main awkwardness comes in 1) when there is delay in my responses as i'm sorting through the optimal way to deliver my thoughts and 2) being spoken to but my mind doesn't want to listen even though sometimes part of me wants to for politeness. The more people there is to cater to the more thought goes into my response, this is more the case if i have not felt everyone in the group to feel comfortable enough to share these judgements in their raw form. Then there is the ultimate drawback that groups drain me a lot faster and there comes a point where i begin to shutdown, and what i say or do gradually becomes so far removed from where i am currently that people begin to look at me funny.

Fi, Si are problematic in groups. It makes sense, they are introverted functions after all. Aswell, groups who are comfortable and accepting of each member are a rarity nowadays, which is needed to accommodate the waiting time for the introverted functions to give birth to those penetrating insights they usually carry.
 

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I always run out of things to say; there are only a few topics that really interest me, and, since no one really contributes when I'm talking about it, I've learned to avoid it.

If someone is walking down the sidewalk in front of me and towards me, I will deliberately cross the street to avoid having to greet the person (unless it's downtown and I'd have to wait for lights). Usually I'll walk around with my eyes focused on the ground.

I am terrible with groups and at parties. Part of the reason, I'm sure, is that it's embarrassing not to have a job or be going to school. But I also have trouble connecting with them, because I don't party, hunt, or know anything about sports or cars, and that stuff is considered kind of crucial in these here parts.

So yeah. Don't put me near people.
 
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With strangers, Fi doesn't feel comfortable though, like I'll avoid topics, I'll omit information, I won't be truly truly connecting with the other person. They're not seeing the part of me that is Fi, they are seeing the Ne part, and so they get this image of me that I'm hilarious, witty, eccentric and knowledgeable about many things. And they stick to that image of me, they believe this is who I am and that I am harmless.
But when I grow more comfortable with the person over time (takes days, weeks, months), Fi begins to let stuff out, and it's such an intense contrast with the Ne person (Ne person is carefree, rainbowy, witty, easygoing) that they have in their minds, that they get grossed out by the new person that seems to be emerging, and they run away. So that's one of my biggest social handicaps, so to speak, that when I'm ready to go deep, other people get spooked.
I never really thought of it this way but it’s so true. Ne + Te is bright, open, funny, articulate, easy-going, even logical. Fi + Te can be intense and frankly can be prone to laying the smackdown. The resulting strong expression of conviction can then cause withdrawal to Fi + Si to contemplate. Then Ne + Te comes back out because we do love to play that way.

To ourselves we seem perfectly consistent. To others I think we can seem unpredictable because they never know when we will flip the switch.

To answer the OP directly, my single biggest obstacle now is just my intense introversion. I need so much time in my head to recover from all the extroverting that being a working adult requires that I can’t maintain many real relationships beyond my husband and immediate family. I have some very old friends who require little maintenance. I always bond with one or two people at work but leave it mostly at the door. And that’s it.

Bear in mind we are all different. I am closely balanced on T and F, and on P and J. So in function terms, my other functions are possibly not as weak. I mean, I can use Fe pretty easily. And the intuitive understanding of Ni does not seem foreign to me either. Se though makes no sense to me.
 

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My parents used to firmly state that I came out 'wired differently' because I was so much harder to know how to help than my older brother. As a youngster, It seemed to me like everyone else magically knew precisely what to say when interacting with other hu-mans, whereas I would struggle to know how to respond even if I had the extra time I needed to think about it. I often came across as awkward or naive, like I had just constructed a sentence that normal people would never use, lol. For me, becoming socially adept was like trying to rediscover fire on my own, I had to rub a lot of fuking sticks together as vigorously as I could and for most of my adolescence it usually just ended up smoldering.

I feel like I hit baseline sometime around High School and now feel darn proficient at hu-man conversation and all that jazz.. I'm finally free of social anxiety and can do just about everything that used to feel painfully impossible before. I think that a lot of my problems might have had something to do with my earlier Aspergers-like difficulties with social cues and even interest in joining in on conversation (I was a little weird). Nonetheless, MOST of my social problems came from low self-esteem, insecurity and anxiety.

I might have a panic attack going through a checkstand at a grocery store because I was acutely self-conscious. I had a hard time speaking loudly because I was hyper-sensitive to any perceived rejection. I didn't know what to say in social situations because I never paid attention to how other people talked.. I was too busy avoiding anxiety and living in my head. I did my best to not bother anyone with, you know, my hu-man needs and such, because I had a plethora of compassion and empathy for everyone but myself..
I was too agreeable and not assertive and felt like an alien, trudging around self-fulfilling prophecies about people being mindless asshats and digging myself into a sad little hole where being social almost felt like a betrayal to my true self. (years of therapy)

Now that I like myself, I like other normal people (extrovert fuks) a lot more, and don't have a hard time at all relating to them or finding them interesting. Their interests and passions (cough) can occasionally be disappointing.. and I absolutely do not share the majority of my inner dialogue with anyone outside of my usually-about-two close friends, but I no longer feel like I'm uninteresting or annoying talking to my fellow citizens, just out of the ordinary. Core beliefs and trauma, self-esteem and vulnerability, and just arriving late to the game as far as learning how to talk after being an extreme space case; these all seem like the main things that gave me problems socially, and the main reasons why I feel the exact opposite of how I used to feel, completely lost..

P.S. Fuk Facebook
 

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@entheos... Well, shit. That was an interesting read.

A lot of this is reminding me of the Ne-Si relationship specifically.

Ne-Si seems to code the situation in a manner that our ENFP counterparts are pretty much always used to doing and that we aren't as aware of because Ne isn't governing the majority of our functions, that's Fi - sometimes Si can come to some pretty strange conclusions after this coding breakdown though.

Dramatic Breakdown:

Ne: OK. Here are all the things.
Me: Awesome, thanks. This is super useful.
Ne: Also, here is all the things if they are sideways, upside down, inside out.
Me: Ummm... K... thanks?
Ne: In an other dimension and timeline, and if there is a rupture in the space time continuum... you know, just in case.
Me:... FFS, there are over 6000 fucking pages worth of excel workbooks of data here...
Ne: :)

Si: Alright, let's compare all of that to the living impressions of memory of this moment and analyse what's going on before we make a move.
Me: Calmly, right?
Si: Yeah, sure sure sure sure. Sure...Seems ok so far, I mean - OH GAWD PAGE 4 ON WORKBOOK 7 SAYS WE ARE GOING TO DIE.
Me: ... I SAID CALMLY!

In short:

Place you have been before: Ne has already gone through a lot of the 'how many ways we could fuck up and die' before and now Si has this impression of the area concluded into 'safe-ish to commune'.

Place you have never been here before: Ne is like 'shit, how many ways could we could fuck up and die? I don't know - here. I'll just lay it all out' and now has this Si impression of the area has no conclusion for 'safety' and instead of calmly looking at the coding, it may find only the slightest thing is wrong and a stray, loud thought may conclude: NOPE NOPE NOPE! NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED - YOU NOW HAVE 20.833 SECONDS TO REACH MINIMUM SAFE DISTANCE.

Odd question: Does this mean that you are more comfortable in different chain restaurants than you are with individualistic coffee shops because the chains have a similar decor/environment/rules?

With strangers, Fi doesn't feel comfortable though, like I'll avoid topics, I'll omit information, I won't be truly truly connecting with the other person. They're not seeing the part of me that is Fi, they are seeing the Ne part, and so they get this image of me that I'm hilarious, witty, eccentric and knowledgeable about many things. And they stick to that image of me, they believe this is who I am and that I am harmless.
But when I grow more comfortable with the person over time (takes days, weeks, months), Fi begins to let stuff out, and it's such an intense contrast with the Ne person (Ne person is carefree, rainbowy, witty, easygoing) that they have in their minds, that they get grossed out by the new person that seems to be emerging, and they run away. So that's one of my biggest social handicaps, so to speak, that when I'm ready to go deep, other people get spooked.
Yeah, all of that does sound quite familiar to me. Ne is the 'science and poking' function for me when it comes to meeting people.

But before Fi lets stuff out, I usually have to go through a 'holding space' section of the relationship that seems to be absent in your text above. Only once I am able to do this comfortably am I able to engage my Fi depth to matters of this human I have come to connect with for better or for ill.

Odd thought: My ENTP partner and I go about holding space very differently - she will NEVER do it unless I ask her to. Ne is ALWAYS on for her. She is a Ne-Ti problem solver right down to her bones. "Data, data, data, I cannot make bricks without clay." I have to prelude any Fi-Ne venting/exploration with: "Please do not try to solve this like it is a system problem, I just need to bitch and feel the feels. KK?" If I do not do this, she will take what little data is there and begin constructing a solution on the spot: "Here is a beer to drink and here is the practical solution to your problem/s and steps 1 through 47 with percentage of success dependent on the time and place in which you take step 1-7." She sometimes gets confused at just how tied in my webs in feeling are around and through me, but she enjoys how deeply I explore them and my thoughts are usually quite mysterious to her which is also something she loves. She is often stimulated by the intensity of Fi and not spooked like you have described others.

Going back to the situation with strangers, I try to make myself invisible. Because of the "what's my right place?" thing. I think Fe also contributes to this. Don't know how it does, but probably it does. I need to sniff around and figure out the most physically comfortable place first, and so I will choose seats that are far away from the main action, I'll sit at the back of the room, or in a corner of the livingroom, anywhere where I can be invisible, observe, and see the territory in front of me as I find my own Si safe place. And Fe is sniffing around veeeery slowly figuring out the group dynamic and what my place in it is. But I will almost never feel my Fe place. I always feel like an outcast (Fi), like I'm physically there but that I don't belong. This doesn't happen with my loved ones, only with acquaintances, strangers, and even friends. I always feel detached and non-belonging. I think people smell this in me. After an hour of feeling Si Fe comfy, I begin to feel confident, and I'll begin to participate in the group conversation voluntarily. But if someone asks me something directly, puts me on the spotlight, and I'm expected to talk out of the blue, this is going to be a huge problem, so I'll be perceived as weird, awkward, what is wrong with her.
You lost me a little bit here though. Not so much with the "weird, awkward, what is wrong with her" feeling (I get that. I mean, not so much now, but I can remember feeling like this in the past with excruciating detail and only after much practice did that even remotely stop being a thing for me), but more your meanings and turmoil with Fi vs Fe.

I don't think you are looking for advice here, but I'm going to say something anyways because I've been drafting this response since like 10am this morning and writing on breaks at work and I need to go home without having this in my head for hours.

I subscribe to the definitions:

F-rational functions are about forming conclusions or judgments about a thing's value as opposed to the mere functionality and attributes of the thing (T-rational functions).

Fe is forming judgments about a thing's objective value in the world. Making it an "accommodating" function that is chiefly concerned with the value that other people attach to things.

Absolutes come from without for Fe. Seeking unity through sacrificing and making concessions. Harmony is more important than individuality. "We are Groot."

Fi is forming judgments about a thing's subjective value to the individual. Making it an "individualistic" function chiefly concerned with the value the individual using it attaches to things despite what other people think.

Absolutes come from within for Fi. Seeking authenticity through iconoclastic decisions. All individuals are all terrifyingly free. "Everyone is very much their own person."

- Paraphrased from Micheal Pierce's Rational Functions Fe vs Fi
Looking at this from an Fi-dominant perspective, pretty much everything that you have described is falling into Fi making a judgement call on the group dynamics but you are trying to force a Fe concession in the dynamic that doesn't exist for you individually, so you feel like you aren't at home in your skin with others around you. But the 'social sniffing' you mention isn't really described as looking to accommodate the group. Instead, you are looking to carve out/find a place for you within the group that still fits in the depth of humanity inside - a very hard peg to fit and you aren't finding as fast as you'd like.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you are obviously not fine with giving pieces of yourself for any given group that quickly... so don't. Seriously, it's great to care, but for sanity's sake, it's fine to Lurk until comfortable and just be honest with yourself. No matter what the group thinks, you do not need to conform.

Hope this was not too preachy. :S Oh, well.
 

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@Zachara That was hilarious xD

Odd question: Does this mean that you are more comfortable in different chain restaurants than you are with individualistic coffee shops because the chains have a similar decor/environment/rules?
Shut up! Wow I hadn't thought of this :O Fascinating.
I do prefer chains rather than small places. However, I can't say it's for the decor alone, it's because of the anonymity/introversion. But knowing the structure of the place because it's a repetition definitely helps.

Chains ---> Go in. It's so crowded nobody looks at you, you're invisible. Order at the counter. Pay immediately, minimal interaction. Then choose a place to sit freely, then eat peacefully with nobody looking at you and no staff coming to the table.

Small businesses ---> Go in. Everybody turns to look at you. Feel awkward. Quickly scan the room to sit down super quick so you stop being the center of attention. Staff come talk to you as you haven't yet managed to decide on where to sit, aka multitasking (find your physical place + socialize all at the same time = brain can't process). Staff continues to suffocate you with talk and attention. Choose your order under pressure, staff has their notepad and pen, tic toc tic toc. Order whatever under stress. Try to eat/drink being anonymous. Staff comes over every now and then "Everything okay? You need anything?". Interaction number 600. And after all of that ordeal you have to go and interact yet again to pay in the end. Fuck that shit. I can't deal.

I never ever ever ever go to a small coffee shop or to a restaurant by myself, I go to chains by myself, I feel safe there. I go to the small businesses with my family and friends, and that's where I let them lead and I just follow. I don't even pick the place, let them pick, because I know I won't feel comfy anywhere anyways, so I'll just go wherever cause hell is hell everywhere anyways xD


But before Fi lets stuff out, I usually have to go through a 'holding space' section of the relationship that seems to be absent in your text above. Only once I am able to do this comfortably am I able to engage my Fi depth to matters of this human I have come to connect with for better or for ill.
Is the holding space related to feeling more comfortable with the person?

But the 'social sniffing' you mention isn't really described as looking to accommodate the group. Instead, you are looking to carve out/find a place for you
Yep, that sounds correct. I kinda think there's an Fe element in it because I relate to my ENFJ and INFJ friends/acquaintances and they tell me they experience the same thing. They go into situations with strangers very quietly, including the ENFJs I know, they're actually very self-concious and so they keep quiet and observant at first, like they're sniffing the group and figuring out their place. And I relate to that. So when I wrote my past post days ago I was remembering my conversations with my NFJ acquaintances.
When we all feel comfortable in a group, outwardly we look the same, the three of us. We behave in the same way, or so it looks. By being an NF temperament I think I come across as smiley and accomodating once I find "my place" more or less, because obvsly I care about people's wellbeing in my presence.
I think lines get blurry sometimes once you're more or less situated in the group dynamic and you've figured out what to expect and how to behave for successful interaction where everybody feels good and welcome.

I see, in short, as Fi harmonizing internally with oneself, and Fe harmonizing with others. While discomfort is happening, I feel very much in Fi mode, but once Fi has an idea of where it stands, there's an Fe element of harmonizing with the group, and then things take off from there. So lines get blurry sometimes in those situations.
 
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Not sure if this is just an Fi thing in general. But I have trouble picking my battles wisely. If someone does something I think is insensitive, I get upset when deep down I know it might easily have been a misunderstanding. Sometimes I think it's justified (like when I think the person is just being inconsiderate and doesn't care about anyone else's feelings,) and can't bring myself to apologize. Other times, I soon regret letting myself get like that in the first place.

The problem is, everyone makes mistakes including myself. And eventually I know I would be hurt by each person I meet, so I need to learn how to handle that better.
 

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@AshOrLey @psyche...
So would you say you ever have worries about saying the wrong thing in a way that hurts people’s feelings...
Yes, that’s a big concern. And then I’m concerned about not being authentic because upon meeting someone I will agree (as in not disagreeing) with almost anything, even if inside I’m going OMG! This person’s thinking/reasoning/values are so wrong in my point of view.

Then, I feel the connection is fake in that they like who they think I am.

I’ve been working on being more assertive when meeting new people and trying to get my opinions/views across more efficiently so people can get a better idea of me and what I stand for. It’s a challenge because I don’t want to get into debating values and ideas with people I’ve just met. It’s just too draining and useless.
 

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@entheos...

Dramatic Breakdown:

Ne: OK. Here are all the things.
Me: Awesome, thanks. This is super useful.
Ne: Also, here is all the things if they are sideways, upside down, inside out.
Me: Ummm... K... thanks?
Ne: In an other dimension and timeline, and if there is a rupture in the space time continuum... you know, just in case.
Me:... FFS, there are over 6000 fucking pages worth of excel workbooks of data here...
Ne: :)

Si: Alright, let's compare all of that to the living impressions of memory of this moment and analyse what's going on before we make a move.
Me: Calmly, right?
Si: Yeah, sure sure sure sure. Sure...Seems ok so far, I mean - OH GAWD PAGE 4 ON WORKBOOK 7 SAYS WE ARE GOING TO DIE.
Me: ... I SAID CALMLY!
...
:laughing::laughing::laughing:
 

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Not sure if this is just an Fi thing in general. But I have trouble picking my battles wisely. If someone does something I think is insensitive, I get upset when deep down I know it might easily have been a misunderstanding. Sometimes I think it's justified (like when I think the person is just being inconsiderate and doesn't care about anyone else's feelings,) and can't bring myself to apologize. Other times, I soon regret letting myself get like that in the first place.

The problem is, everyone makes mistakes including myself. And eventually I know I would be hurt by each person I meet, so I need to learn how to handle that better.
Sounds like the Te other side of the Fi/Te axis - Welcome to the club; we auto-pugilate ever Tuesday from 1800hrs until the end of time.

Te is kinda like a sledge/warhammer for INFPs - really effective and satisfying when you swing it right and with accuracy and good footing, but also potentially very VERY awful when you miss. This can range from "welp, my footing sucked with that one, maybe I use my legs a little more next time" to "WHY DID I LET GO OF THE HANDLE IN BACKSWING?! OMG. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THAT'S LANDING. I AM SO SORRY!"

Costs sweat and tears and a little sanity, but there are good rewards for figuring it out as tool.
 

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Shut up! Wow I hadn't thought of this :O Fascinating.
I do prefer chains rather than small places. However, I can't say it's for the decor alone, it's because of the anonymity/introversion. But knowing the structure of the place because it's a repetition definitely helps.

Is the holding space related to feeling more comfortable with the person?
Yes. It is a matter of effective range for Fi effect. Like a targeting system for Fi to commit or pledge resources elsewhere. The closer the range determined, the better the comfort level. The further the range, the more I will look to cleanly GTFO.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more holding space seems more like a bridge between Fi-dom and the Ne-aux 'for science' poking.

Holding Space = Fi interests engaged: One step closer to committing the attention and energy to know the person and possibly share with them some precious inner treasure I have cataloged in the future.

Holding Space = Fi interests not engaged despite best attempts to Give a Fuck: One step back - then possibly to the side and into a pre-identified escape route like a social version of that chair in Batman's office in Batman Forever...

It carries it's own sense of risk because of Fi giving so much of a shit about someone too though. This used to result in putting someone on a pedestal or revealing too much intensity too soon when I was younger most of the time, but now I am more cautious about it.

NOTE: I have also observed that holding space has been more effective when I am teamed up with Ne-dom or an other Ne-aux because the focus from the outside on me while I am holding space is not me and me alone - it's split and often results in more insights emotional and otherwise from several directions. Having an Se-dom there (ESFPs more than ESTPs, I find) too is SUPER useful most of the time because they are great BS detectors and can also deflect the attention pretty efficiently.
 
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