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Discussion Starter #1
I'm a very strong J.

As much as I like balance, I really don't have the desire to be more of a P. I used to wonder if I was a P, because I wanted to be "open-minded", but I now think that I was using this as an excuse to always do what I wanted to do and to never do the things that I didn't want to do, (which I think should have been done). I was thinking that I was a P so that I could justify being late, lazy, and indescisive.

*Note: I am NOT saying that P's ARE that way. It's just that I was that way.

It's easy to say that truth is relative, but I guess what I wonder is whether this really matters. If perception is reality, then what's the harm in knowing someone's perception? And is it really possible for one to believe that he/she is "right" without believing that someone who disagrees with him/her is "wrong"?

I guess one of the bad things about being a strong J is the perception that one is "uptight", but I think that the good thing about the way Fe seems to work for me is that as long as I'm not serious, I won't be seen that way. When I AM serious, I don't beat around the bush, which I think could be a good thing or a bad thing according to how one is looking at it.

I don't know. Maybe I will form a judgment on this after I read some replies. I hope to get some. :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter #2
hmm...no takers, huh?

Come on. You can shoot me straight.

Tell me I'm a jerk, if you want to.
 

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I seem to have weak J. A strong J is good in that everyone knows what is expected of them when a J asks for something to be done, including themselves - it gives you the will to follow through on things, see them to the end and helps you to come to quick decisions when needed. The thing that really irritates me about a strong J is the constant need to have a plan - to be on a plan, or if there isn't one to formulate a plan. My mum drives me nuts with this - she's always asking what the plan is for something a week or two away, that doesn't seem to need much of a plan, and I find it quite domineering...I feel like saying "Relax woman! We'll figure out next week when we get to next week and the exact circumstances present themselves to us, then we can make the decision.". I find it draining to have to think about a situation and all it's possible permeatations (is that a word?) before its even happening - a waste of energy.
And the other thing that I find annoying is how someone with a strong J preference gets stuck in a rut so easily. They're on the plan, and the plan isn't going as expected. They get disappointed and bitter, but think that they must see it through to the end. It's like when me and my husband were on holiday and were supposed to stay in a certain city for a couple of nights, and he didn't like it and was miserable and bringing the whole mood down. So I said "Well then, let's ditch this place and just get on the road, see where we end up" and he was so reticent to do this because it was deviating from the plan, even though he was miserable where he was and knew he would continue to stay miserable. In the end I won that battle, and we had an awesome night in some random tiny town we ended up in. Since then our road trips have been far less planned and it suits us both better.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I seem to have weak J. A strong J is good in that everyone knows what is expected of them when a J asks for something to be done, including themselves - it gives you the will to follow through on things, see them to the end and helps you to come to quick decisions when needed. The thing that really irritates me about a strong J is the constant need to have a plan - to be on a plan, or if there isn't one to formulate a plan. My mum drives me nuts with this - she's always asking what the plan is for something a week or two away, that doesn't seem to need much of a plan, and I find it quite domineering...I feel like saying "Relax woman! We'll figure out next week when we get to next week and the exact circumstances present themselves to us, then we can make the decision.". I find it draining to have to think about a situation and all it's possible permeatations (is that a word?) before its even happening - a waste of energy.
And the other thing that I find annoying is how someone with a strong J preference gets stuck in a rut so easily. They're on the plan, and the plan isn't going as expected. They get disappointed and bitter, but think that they must see it through to the end. It's like when me and my husband were on holiday and were supposed to stay in a certain city for a couple of nights, and he didn't like it and was miserable and bringing the whole mood down. So I said "Well then, let's ditch this place and just get on the road, see where we end up" and he was so reticent to do this because it was deviating from the plan, even though he was miserable where he was and knew he would continue to stay miserable. In the end I won that battle, and we had an awesome night in some random tiny town we ended up in. Since then our road trips have been far less planned and it suits us both better.
Thanks, I'm definatley guilty of trying to see my "plans" through to the end, and I'm rarely ever satisfied with myself.

Maybe it's the Fe in me that needs someone to actually tell me that my plan was successful. All my plans now involve other people. I just can't seem to do anything that feels "selfish" without feeling bad about it. :sad:
 

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I still have a hard time understanding what is meant by a "strong" J... Maybe i'm just not focusing enough... But i'm listening...
 
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I still have a hard time understanding what is meant by a "strong" J... Maybe i'm just not focusing enough... But i'm listening...
It's difficult because it has no relevance to MBTI theory when you get down to studying it by function attitudes - all it means then is that if you are a J, your judging preference is extraverted, whereas if you are a P your perception preference is extraverted. e.g. ENFP - the intuition is extraverted, INFJ - the feeling is extraverted.

By referring to strong J, Dave is discussing MBTI strictly by type code preference - as in, when you do the test you are given a percentage score of your preferences on the I-E, N-S, T-F, J-P scales. Since we are all INFJ's, the theory says we all prefer judging to perceiving to some extent. So presumably, Dave has a score that says he strongly prefers judging to perceiving, whereas my score says that I only slightly prefer judging to perceiving - these are based on the J/P preference scale:

J
I like to have things decided.
I appear to be task oriented.
I like to make lists of things to do.
I like to get my work done before playing.
I plan work to avoid rushing just before a deadline.
Sometimes I focus so much on the goal that I miss new information.

P
I like to stay open to respond to whatever happens.
I appear to be loose and casual. I like to keep plans to a minimum.
I like to approach work as play or mix work and play.
I work in bursts of energy.
I am stimulated by an approaching deadline.
Sometimes I stay open to new information so long I miss making decisions when they are needed.

Sorry if I understood your question wrong and you know all of that :laughing:
 

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A weak J corresponds to intuitive subtype of INFJ - basically a more introverted INFJ that is using a lot of Ni-Ti
A strong J corresponds to ethical subtype of INFJ - a more extraverted INFJ that is using a lot of Fe-Se

Way I see it is that if you spend a lot of time introverting, you're using your Ni-Ti for understanding and ordering of your inner mind. This same time you aren't spending on creating order in outer world. But if you are extraverting and using more Fe and Se then you will be spending more time carrying out your plans to completion and incepting new ones, creating schedules and lists, cleaning your living space, etc. you'll be spending more effort on creating some kind of order around you, hence be more "heavily J". I read that INFJs are the 'messiest' of all J-type though because of dominant intuition.
 

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I like to have things decided.
I appear to be task oriented.
I like to make lists of things to do.
I like to get my work done before playing.
I plan work to avoid rushing just before a deadline.
Sometimes I focus so much on the goal that I miss new information.
This is me to a tee. I am very much interested in becoming a bit more P, though I am pretty much stuck in the J category.

At work (though I am not working currently) I am very Judging. I like everything decided, and work according to deadlines. I am very detail oriented and like to know precisely what I am supposed to do and how it should be done. I am very organized and systematic, and do not goof off much, and never procrastinate (unless my task has not been adequately defined).

When I travel (as I am now) I am very much more Perceiving. I tend to go with the flow and not make plans that cannot be changed. I am highly adaptable, and am more open to surprises and spontaneous plans. I never, at any time, enjoy the planned surprises of others. Nevertheless, it is still impossible for me not to plan and organize on some level.

I would say that, as a person with a strong J I am a more serious person, though I also think that I have a great sense of humor (though subtle). The P description of "playful" would definitely not apply to me, even on my best day. I do tend to be more formal and conventional, though I have little use for traditions of any sort. I am very goal-oriented, though my goals often change, and I sometimes abandon or forget about old goals in favor of new ones, or have so many goals that I do not finish any of them. I like to think that I can just be lazy, in fact this was one of my major goals, though I do not think it is possible. I do think that I need to do something, but I just do not want to have to do anything.

I think that I am quite open-minded. This has not always been the case. When I was younger I did tend to fall into the rut of thinking I was right and others were wrong. This was my J nature, with its tendency to form strong opinions and not allow room for other opinions. Now, I know that there are no absolutes in the human realm, only opinion. Like P's I also tend to disregard laws, and pay only pragmatic attention to any rules I have not created myself, for myself. Most of my family is J, and they tend to view the law as some sacred thing, not to be broken or even questioned.

The disorganization, procrastination, and inability to manage daily affairs or plan anything of some P tends to drive me crazy.
 

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I'm a weak J, doubting being a INFJ for this very reason but My mind is constantly trying to figure out what is going to happen next yet I'm disorganized. It's amazing.
 

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A weak J corresponds to intuitive subtype of INFJ - basically a more introverted INFJ that is using a lot of Ni-Ti
A strong J corresponds to ethical subtype of INFJ - a more extraverted INFJ that is using a lot of Fe-Se

Way I see it is that if you spend a lot of time introverting, you're using your Ni-Ti for understanding and ordering of your inner mind. This same time you aren't spending on creating order in outer world. But if you are extraverting and using more Fe and Se then you will be spending more time carrying out your plans to completion and incepting new ones, creating schedules and lists, cleaning your living space, etc. you'll be spending more effort on creating some kind of order around you, hence be more "heavily J". I read that INFJs are the 'messiest' of all J-type though because of dominant intuition.
This was my initial hypothesis as well. The more introverted you are, it is more likely that you would go to your tertiary function to keep the comfort zone of introversion intact. This of course poses a problem since you're not getting interaction/ information from the external world and you're only working with the materials of your own mind which might result in really dangerous pursuits and malevolent beliefs of how you think the world operates.
 

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I used to have a strong J preference in Jr High and High School. I'm not really sure when it started being downplayed, but I know for sure some drugs have permanently altered (for better or worse) my consciousness. I'm not saying this to promote, just to inform. I guess I'll leave it at that. Notice how my J/P is 50/50. This is very recent and it kinda bugs the shit out of me at times.
 

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I have a "very strong J" but at the same time I'm also really introverted and have a developed Ti. How do I manage? Really it is dividing your time up. Yes I'm really task oriented and everything has a plan. My mind just creates plans more than it is an effort to make them and I do get annoyed if my plans are interrupted suddenly but I can change it is it is not working more like spontaneous re-planning. Planning gives me a sense of structure and security. I sense the goal and the end when there is a plan rather than having things so open-ended.

When I finish my task or work I have a time set aside to do my own thing and think my through many ideas.
 

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It's difficult because it has no relevance to MBTI theory when you get down to studying it by function attitudes - all it means then is that if you are a J, your judging preference is extraverted, whereas if you are a P your perception preference is extraverted. e.g. ENFP - the intuition is extraverted, INFJ - the feeling is extraverted.

By referring to strong J, Dave is discussing MBTI strictly by type code preference - as in, when you do the test you are given a percentage score of your preferences on the I-E, N-S, T-F, J-P scales. Since we are all INFJ's, the theory says we all prefer judging to perceiving to some extent. So presumably, Dave has a score that says he strongly prefers judging to perceiving, whereas my score says that I only slightly prefer judging to perceiving - these are based on the J/P preference scale:

J
I like to have things decided.
I appear to be task oriented.
I like to make lists of things to do.
I like to get my work done before playing.
I plan work to avoid rushing just before a deadline.
Sometimes I focus so much on the goal that I miss new information.

P
I like to stay open to respond to whatever happens.
I appear to be loose and casual. I like to keep plans to a minimum.
I like to approach work as play or mix work and play.
I work in bursts of energy.
I am stimulated by an approaching deadline.
Sometimes I stay open to new information so long I miss making decisions when they are needed.

Sorry if I understood your question wrong and you know all of that :laughing:
J
I like to have things decided. - If something is decided then it is off my mind and I no longer have to worry about it. So yes I agree with this.
I appear to be task oriented. - If this means keep myself occupied then yes I do that. There is always something I could be doing.
I like to make lists of things to do. - Sometimes more so than actually doing the things on the list! I make shopping lists for myself because I know I will forget something. This doesn't always work because I have put things on the shopping list and somehow still managed to forget to buy it. I think I just like to get in there and get out so I tend to rush.
I like to get my work done before playing. I tend to play first preparing myself for the real work.
I plan work to avoid rushing just before a deadline. My past experience is the oppositive. I usually end up rushing work the night before; however I know that if I plan ahead I will feel much better for having got the work done and out of the way. I know I can relax then.
Sometimes I focus so much on the goal that I miss new information. I can't think of an example but it does sound like me.

P
I like to stay open to respond to whatever happens. - It would be useful to have some examples of these because I feel like I am this as well as 'I like to have things decided'.
I appear to be loose and casual. I like to keep plans to a minimum. When it comes to going out or on holiday I'm quite happy to leave the planning to other people and just go along with what they are doing. I tend to do things based on how I am feeling. For example if need to go into town to do some shopping and I thought about going today but I can't be bothered so I might go tomorrow. I will do this until it gets to the point where I NEED to go into town otherwise I will run out of food etc.
However if it is left to me to sort out the holiday or event we are going to or if I am driving myself there, then I like to know all the details, when, where, what time etc.
I like to approach work as play or mix work and play. - I find that when I am doing an assignment, instead of focusing on it solidly for several hours I will do a bit, play a bit, do a bit more.
I work in bursts of energy. - I have days where I get a lot done and days where I just can't face doing anything.
I am stimulated by an approaching deadline. - definitely! nothing like an approaching deadline to get me into 'panic mode'.
Sometimes I stay open to new information so long I miss making decisions when they are needed. - Not sure either way on this one.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks everyone.

I was in a bad mood yesterday. My dog was sick, and I think I had some displaced feelings about that, which probably came through on here.

I went to bed about 9:00 last night, and I'm usually a night owl. I took her to get to the vet today, and she's doing better.

I don't know what I would do without that dog. :sad:
 

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It's difficult because it has no relevance to MBTI theory when you get down to studying it by function attitudes - all it means then is that if you are a J, your judging preference is extraverted, whereas if you are a P your perception preference is extraverted. e.g. ENFP - the intuition is extraverted, INFJ - the feeling is extraverted.

By referring to strong J, Dave is discussing MBTI strictly by type code preference - as in, when you do the test you are given a percentage score of your preferences on the I-E, N-S, T-F, J-P scales. Since we are all INFJ's, the theory says we all prefer judging to perceiving to some extent. So presumably, Dave has a score that says he strongly prefers judging to perceiving, whereas my score says that I only slightly prefer judging to perceiving - these are based on the J/P preference scale:

Sorry if I understood your question wrong and you know all of that :laughing:
Thanks a lot for that explanation. I guess I am more of a P then...

J
I like to have things decided. most times, no. i like making plans, but feel restricted if others plan for me. and i enjoy the freedom and spontaneity of not having plans
I appear to be task oriented. true
I like to make lists of things to do. yes, i don't trust my memory
I like to get my work done before playing. i wish i had the discipline to do that
I plan work to avoid rushing just before a deadline. plan yes, but i hardly ever follow the plan, unless it is very short time planning
Sometimes I focus so much on the goal that I miss new information. don't know

P
I like to stay open to respond to whatever happens. yes!
I appear to be loose and casual. I like to keep plans to a minimum. no, people see me as extremely well prepared... i don't feel well prepared however
I like to approach work as play or mix work and play. at least that's how expect it to be
I work in bursts of energy. definitely me
I am stimulated by an approaching deadline. unless it is something i really love doing, i almost need a deadline to get things done
Sometimes I stay open to new information so long I miss making decisions when they are needed. guess it could happen
 
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This was my initial hypothesis as well. The more introverted you are, it is more likely that you would go to your tertiary function to keep the comfort zone of introversion intact. This of course poses a problem since you're not getting interaction/ information from the external world and you're only working with the materials of your own mind which might result in really dangerous pursuits and malevolent beliefs of how you think the world operates.
Thanks, that was very enlightening... I can see myself falling in that trap at times...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
A strong J corresponds to ethical subtype of INFJ - a more extraverted INFJ that is using a lot of Fe-Se
This is my subtype. I think I've probably assumed too much that many of you were in this same possition.

I would like to hear from some of the "more extroverted" brand of INFJs.
 

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Thanks everyone.

I was in a bad mood yesterday. My dog was sick, and I think I had some displaced feelings about that, which probably came through on here.

I went to bed about 9:00 last night, and I'm usually a night owl. I took her to get to the vet today, and she's doing better.

I don't know what I would do without that dog. :sad:
Oh no, did they find out what was wrong wit her?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
All right.

One more post, and then I'm going to get out of the house for a while.

It can suck indeed to be such an extroverted introvert. When I'm by myself, I imagine myself being with other people...usually girls. :wink:

When I am with other people, sometimes- depedning on who it is- I want to be by myself. Grr...

Have a great day, everyone. No matter what subtype of INFJ you are...just be happy. :happy:
 
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