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For example, my enfp classmate told me she wanted a boyfriend that takes care of her and stands up for her when she's being verbally attacked and make her feel safe, because the man is supposed to protect their woman and family and that's how it's always been. She wants the feeling of protection from him. What are your thoughts on traditional/old-school values like this?
 

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Such gender roles often seem suffocating to me or unreasonable. I believe personality matters more and things I expect from my partner are generally things I expect from myself as well. If I'm being wrong I don't want my boyfriend to validate my behavior and I expect from him to talk with me about it. And also I prefer not to have him jump to my defense without a serious reason because that's just patronizing behavior and it keeps me from growing and learning from my experiences and even my mistakes. Also I have to fight my own urge to do the same to him. There's an understandable sense of community with a partner but in such situations it's important to me not to overdo it in either direction (too much or too little defense). It's gonna depend on the situations too, but that's the very general perspective. If you have any specifics you wanna ask about go ahead.
 

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I like traditional roles, it's something that turns me on but I know what I like and dislike. Everyone has their own fetishes and I like the traditional housewife fetish. I have a thing for the 1940's historic era. I even love their dress style. I also don't expect my husband to be "the man" 100% of the time and understand that he's a human being with his own weakness. I like him being balanced. I like that we don't complete each other but complement one another. I'm a strong female on my own and I could stand on my own two feet without him. I can stand up for myself. I do still like the feeling of safety in our household but I think it's a two way street with us. I provide him a safe spot for him to come home to. A stable and safe spot to snuggle up. He is an INTJ and he does love his home, I don't think he would have married me if I didn't provide that emotional safety back.

I, however, do not expect others to like the same things that I like or act like me. Everyone is different. My best friend is an ISFJ and she wears the pants in her relationship with my brother in law (INFJ). That dynamic works for them. They make a really good team because they recognized the rolls they like to play. Narrowing people into gender roles is unreasonable to me too. I think everyone should just let people do their thing as long as they're not harming people.

The most important issues in a relationship are understanding who you are and what you like and dislike, learning to compromise, not forcing a shoe on that doesn't fit you, and commonality with the expression of being authentic to your partner.
 

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Traditionalism has never been a hallmark of ENFP, or any kind of Fi-forward type. More than anything else, it's a restraint to things Ne can experience, and things we can be. It's usually something to slip around, maybe try on as a costume. I'd question your friends typing.
 

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Traditionalism has never been a hallmark of ENFP, or any kind of Fi-forward type. More than anything else, it's a restraint to things Ne can experience, and things we can be. It's usually something to slip around, maybe try on as a costume. I'd question your friends typing.
I like traditionalism and I am an ENFP, with a very high Ne.

Everyone has their own quirks.
 

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I'm curious, were you raised pretty non-traditionalist?
Yeah funny enough my mother ISTJ wanted me to be the breadwinner in the family. She was pushing me to be a badass take no answer business career woman she wanted me to be.

Yet she also provided a perfect Martha Stewart environment. (She's not like Martha's personality). But she did like to decorate and bake like Martha. Doing that feels very comforting to me so I like to bake.
 

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Yeah funny enough my mother ISTJ wanted me to be the breadwinner in the family. She was pushing me to be a badass take no answer business career woman she wanted me to be.

Yet she also provided a perfect Martha Stewart environment. (She's not like Martha's personality). But she did like to decorate and bake like Martha. Doing that feels very comforting to me so I like to bake.
Interesting, and not totally out of my understanding with I've seen with ENFPs who are attracted to various "traditionalist" patterns. Tradition is pretty relative to one's upbringing. I still stand by what I say about ENFPs and traditionalism, but I think it more accurate to say that they're not traditionalists for traditions sake. And have a tendency toward moral relativity, even if they are attracted to traditionalist tropes.
 

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I think we should promote every traditional value that is good and reject every traditional value that is bad.

Some middle eastern cultures have held their old values. We can learn from their example. Their culture is hospitable to guests. That's good, we should be hospitable too.


..but they also don't value women. That's bad. We should not adopt that.

The Chinese culture promotes filial piety. That's good, we should respect our elders.

..but they equate the standing of wives with mothers (or lower). That weakens the marriage bond. That's bad. I would only ever marry someone who would put me before their mother.

In all, I think I've become someone who has rejected too many traditional values to be described as traditional, but traditional values have a level of merit.
^response from an INFP


OP what do you, an ISTP, think about traditional values?
 

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I’m also kind of wondering how old this classmate is? How many relationships she’s been in? If she’s younger and on the inexperienced side I’d take what she says with a grain of salt due to just giving her slack to experience and grow. I think when people who haven’t had many relationships start talking about what they want then they probably think they want that until proven otherwise. Usually a few years changes the way everyone talks about what they want.

I think when I was in my early 20s my conception of what I wanted was very different from what i actually turned out to need and want. My description of what I wanted lacked a great amount of insight.
I wanted a leader but really I needed someone who had time to be with me. I wanted a scientist when really a poet understood me much better. I wanted someone who could sing duets with me when really what I can’t do without is a kind generous heart. Those are my peculiarities.

I can imagine an ENFP changing their mind from traditional to non traditional as soon as (and if) the traditional boyfriend has other qualities that they didn’t even know to be on their guard about like being belittled, treated unequally, being controlled, or violently jealousy. After a bit of experience you learn what your real priorities are. Traditional might become less important, thoughtful and supportive might become more important.

But if someone in their 30’s or 40’s who has been around the block says they want someone traditional, then I take them at their word.

As for traditional or non traditional in general, note there is a certain WAY that ENFPs are non-traditional, usually. We are usually out of the box thinkers on how we approach problems.
There are some things I’m still traditional about. Having kids is one, and I love and adhere to my religion. I don't think I chose these things for the sake of tradition. It feels like a very conscious choice. I’d say these two things, my kids and my religion are the most important things on earth to me. My marriage is up there too. Most things I am non-traditional about— depending on the scrutiny my mind puts the concepts of the traditions through. It is all very conscious for me and I think everyone should scrutinize every concept they come across, assess their heart and resources and come to a decision on each thing they commit to. Oh wow.. but maybe they don’t Ne-Fi-Te-Si like I do. They’ll do their thing.
 

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Very interesting, including what @NIHM mentioned, regarding traditionalism.
In a way, I also prefer it. It's completely my "own" version; clearly not born of mimicry, but personal preference.
Not of fan of going against the grain just for the sake of it.

I hypothesize my household contributed to that feeling.
My mother (ENFJ) was leader, protector, stronghold of the family, and I frequently played lieutenant.
The two males took on more traditionally feminine, passive roles.
I almost feel as though following society's tradition is, for me, against tradition.
I abhor chauvinist/"macho" men with a passion, though. Count me out of that one.
 

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aspencheeks said:
my enfp classmate told me she wanted a boyfriend that takes care of her and stands up for her when she's being verbally attacked and make her feel safe
Women are rarely verbally attacked by men in the presence of their boyfriend or husband; in most cases the attacker is the husband or boyfriend, so he is not the solution but the problem:


I embrace all customs that allow me to do what I like and refrain from what I dislike, like dealing with vomit, faeces and books for children. I also escort women to their cars if it is raining and they don’t have an umbrella. Why not men? They don’t wear make up that often and are unlikely to accept help from their rivals.
 

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I'm a pretty traditional Greek, in that I love sunny weather and temperatures between 22-35 Celsius :kitteh:
and when it rains I think it's the end of the world
 

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I'm a pretty traditional Greek, in that I love sunny weather and temperatures between 22-35 Celsius :kitteh:
and when it rains I think it's the end of the world
That's cute.
I'm a pretty traditional Filipina, in that I love rainy weather and temperatures between 24-37 Celsius. :kitteh:
and when it doesn't rain for a week, I think it's the end of the world.

I like traditional values and morals in the sense that it gives structure to my life instead of too much freedom. I wish moral relativism weren't a thing. Life is already too complicated without people being too individualistic and pushing their ideas too far.

BUT I also like the idea of creating your own traditions. Like starting family, community or workplace traditions.

It's just the morality thing where I prefer to see things in black in white. Do this, don't do that. Everything else is understandably, free for all.
 

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Traditionalism has never been a hallmark of ENFP, or any kind of Fi-forward type. More than anything else, it's a restraint to things Ne can experience, and things we can be. It's usually something to slip around, maybe try on as a costume. I'd question your friends typing.
I agree with this statement a lot , I could care less for traditions . I like experiences and would never talk about wanting a man to take care of me . Though I must admit having my partner care for me when I’m sick Is comforting - however I highly doubt that deals anything with traditions. Most fi type would feel the same I assume - I’ve had this talk with my infp friend- aunt and esfp cousin many times over . I was about to type the same . I’m pretty unconventional myself


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For example, my enfp classmate told me she wanted a boyfriend that takes care of her and stands up for her when she's being verbally attacked and make her feel safe, because the man is supposed to protect their woman and family and that's how it's always been. She wants the feeling of protection from him. What are your thoughts on traditional/old-school values like this?
I enjoy learning and listening about different culture traditional customs /celebrations and since my entp father is a philosopher/historian, I’m very aware of traditional values and forms of celebrations, however my family is pretty unconventional and so am I . I mean I respect my elders - teach my kids to do the same - speak Vietnamese to my kids ( I was born and raised in California, however I think it’s important to know ones home language )nevertheless that aligns more with values than traditions.
I don’t mind taking care of my partner or vice versa - I’ve been with my istp partner since I was a teen - there were time when I was the bread winner and vice versa- I don’t set expectations on him or expect him to take care of me , I can take care of myself just fine.
I can’t relate much with your classmate


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What is traditionalism?

Is it following the rules that have been set by your family for generations?

Is it the upbringing that you had and sticking to what your guardians taught you?

Is it politically conservative values?

Is it the rejection of new methods and ideas so to avoid chaos and unpredictability?

Is it weird-ass gender laws that make no sense and should be extinct-- sorry, I struggled to phrase that one unbiasedly.
 

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For example, my enfp classmate told me she wanted a boyfriend that takes care of her and stands up for her when she's being verbally attacked and make her feel safe, because the man is supposed to protect their woman and family and that's how it's always been. She wants the feeling of protection from him. What are your thoughts on traditional/old-school values like this?
I'd take what she said with a grain of salt.
Every ENFP is different. Some resent old school thoughts and traditionalism. Others like it and have it as a romantic preference. ENFPs can easily change their tastes and lifestyle while others prefer to stick with it.

I'm an individualist so I think people should just live their lives in the way that they wish.

Some stereotypical "traditional" values turn me on similar to what @NIHM said. While I don't expect others to live by it; in fact I prefer progressive values as a feminist.

But for me personally, I like some traditional values for myself and I'd like a significant other with a similar mindset to provide that for me. But HE has to want it as well. I'd never ask anything of him against his will.

We simply wouldn't be compatible.
 

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I find it absolutely a turn on that my ENFP wife doesn't need me to fight her battles. Sure she likes the traditional aspects and makes my world full of feel-good items but I would have loved her if she had wanted to be a badass career woman. (PST) I've got news for you, she's a badass career woman AND still does her housewife scenario enactments. I'm not going to lie, I have it made.

Never let NIHM describe herself as a meek little mouse needing to be protected. I have never seen someone with so much courage, talent, and not afraid to lay down the law. She may be a sub in the bed with me but I get the best of both worlds because I have a lioness outside the house.

I'm never jealous of the achievements she racks up. I'm just beyond proud she picked me to be her partner. :smug:

Also, I have never known any ENFP to actually lock anyone down into a type. If anything she's very open to different cultures, scenarios, and is extremely excepting of (most). I think the only value set she may give a quick knee jerk reaction to is someone that is a biogot.
 

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I find it absolutely a turn on that my ENFP wife doesn't need me to fight her battles. Sure she likes the traditional aspects and makes my world full of feel-good items but I would have loved her if she had wanted to be a badass career woman. (PST) I've got news for you, she's a badass career woman AND still does her housewife scenario enactments. I'm not going to lie, I have it made.

Never let NIHM describe herself as a meek little mouse needing to be protected. I have never seen someone with so much courage, talent, and not afraid to lay down the law. She may be a sub in the bed with me but I get the best of both worlds because I have a lioness outside the house.

I'm never jealous of the achievements she racks up. I'm just beyond proud she picked me to be her partner. :smug:

Also, I have never known any ENFP to actually lock anyone down into a type. If anything she's very open to different cultures, scenarios, and is extremely excepting of (most). I think the only value set she may give a quick knee jerk reaction to is someone that is a biogot.
 
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