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My parents are ISTJ and ESTJ. From my experience it has been very difficult being around them since we see things from such different perspectives. I think , as an ENFP myself with a Very strong F (90%) - being around Ts doesn't seem to connect me with them at all, except INTPs or ENTPs

Bear in mind this is just my opinion and experirnces. Wonder what others will say :) ....
 

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i only met one, and she tended to be a little rash and hurtful at times. i think she thought i was immature or something. i remember when she first met me she acted lyk she hated me, and my other friend said he got the same impression; but when i quizzed her about it she seemed genuinely puzzled. she was great when you got to know her though.. i did feel she judged me quite a lot for being quite so airy, but she was the mother hen of the group, and we loved her for being the bossy type who kept our feet on the ground. omg i used to get such kicks out of teasing her, she got soooo maaad:laughing:. she's going to be a history teacher which i think is so fitting.. i tend to generalize a lot and i know not all ISTJs are exactly lyk this..

i read somewhere that ENFPs turn into a bad version of ISTJs when under too much stress, which explains a lot! in a situation where im not comfortable i get critical over everything and my friends think im acting weird.
 

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I have a friend whom I would type ISTJ and Í really enjoy his company once in a while, we talk a lot and learn from each others perspectives. We see the world so differently! The best thing about him is that you can count on him, his promises are for real. Next to talking we invite each other to (some of) our friends and make a nice social event out of it.

At the former place I lived, we met as neighbors in a student housing. As some new project I started to group together all the roommates and neighbors to get to together once in a while, organizing a party or a BBQ. And he was the biggest help I could ever had. His weakness though was for him to learn that not everyone was motivated to help organize like he did, and that if you force someone it, it's bad for the atmosphere, although I understand his frustration, I tried to let him see, that in such a voluntary group you need to inspire people. Since recently I moved out of there, the get togethers are over now (i do hope that someone resurrects it someday, but it won't be the ISTJ).
 

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I can't stand ISTJs, though I've only had a close friendship with one so maybe it's not a big enough sample. We wen't out for about two weeks, two weeks too long and it was hell.

Judgmental, critical, arrogant, and flakey could best describe this person. As a chilled-out ENFP this was different, too different. If felt like I was going out with someone who wanted to be my mom.

She did some weird stuff too. She cut off all her guy friends (ended her friendships with them) because, get this, her car broke down and a guy friend offered to fix it. She couldn't deal with this kindness, thought it was an alterior motive (to be nice to her so her could date her), so she dumps ALL her guy friends just to be sure that can't happen!

Maybe I just had a low functioning one, but run...RUN from ISTJs
 

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I've had two completely different experiances with ISTJ's. A female ISTJ I know is one of my best friends. She's the most loveable and adorable person I know. She can be very blunt and dazes out when I'm talking about something she's definetly not interested in, but other than that she's great.

Buy my (ENTP) boyfriends brother is an ISTJ. Now, the fact that he's a spoiled brat might have something to do with his nastiness but for the most part he's an arrogent, shallow, misogynistic, lazy, snobby, and all around thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. He's incredibly immature and thinks that all people that aren't on his intellectual level are stupid. He thinks cussing like a sailor makes him look mature and if he complains a lot it supposedly makes him look more adult. The best part is that he's not even that smart. Anyone can get good grades in school, but he has no common sense what so ever. Very close minded and hates to be proven wrong. He'll argue about something for hours because he's never wrong. If and when you prove him wrong he gets all quite and mumbles, "whatever..." like a child. He freaks out at the littlest things and has temper tantums often. Did I mention the fact that he's 17 years old?

For the record I don't think that all ISTJ's are that way, and some can be really funny but these have just been my experiances.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've had two completely different experiances with ISTJ's. A female ISTJ I know is one of my best friends. She's the most loveable and adorable person I know. She can be very blunt and dazes out when I'm talking about something she's definetly not interested in, but other than that she's great.

Buy my (ENTP) boyfriends brother is an ISTJ. Now, the fact that he's a spoiled brat might have something to do with his nastiness but for the most part he's an arrogent, shallow, misogynistic, lazy, snobby, and all around thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. He's incredibly immature and thinks that all people that aren't on his intellectual level are stupid. He thinks cussing like a sailor makes him look mature and if he complains a lot it supposedly makes him look more adult. The best part is that he's not even that smart. Anyone can get good grades in school, but he has no common sense what so ever. Very close minded and hates to be proven wrong. He'll argue about something for hours because he's never wrong. If and when you prove him wrong he gets all quite and mumbles, "whatever..." like a child. He freaks out at the littlest things and has temper tantums often. Did I mention the fact that he's 17 years old?

For the record I don't think that all ISTJ's are that way, and some can be really funny but these have just been my experiances.

actually i find that i lack common sense sometimes too.
 
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Hello Mercer -

ISTJ in a relationship (my experience) -

You've probably seen me posting about the ISTJ I dated for about 9 months...I really liked him but our differences in approaches to things made the relationship very difficult...it was like I was always second guessing everything because I filtered things through how I thought my ex would process things and inevitably I was wrong...very confusing indeed.

What I really liked about him - he was considerate, even-tempered, punctual to a fault (and I mean this - one time I was going walking over to his place and I was running about 10 min late and he called me wondering where I was...we then made a 15 min later rule)...a generally nice great guy....his large social circle didn't have a negative thing to say about him...he does alot of trithlon and swimming coaching so knows alot of people....but very few people really know him...he has a very small, insular group of close friend who I didn't get to know that well (it was like he was guarding them from me!)....he was aloof...a nut that I tried to crack but couldn't...he always wanted to be in control...he was the slowest grandpa driver I ever saw...he marvelled at my ability to ride a motorcycle but he never went anywhere near it...

We debated for hours about things...he would always challenge my opinions and my leaps of intuition about things...I don't know how I make the connections and see the big picture..I just do..and he would always want to drag those leaps of intuition through his filter of logic...it kind of annoyed me and I would get defensive because he would challenge my assumptions but never share his thoughts and opinions about things...I asked him once why we had to debate everything - not just discuss things - and he said that was how he learned things. He was extremely skeptical about everything...he had to run any idea through his risk matrix and then generally discard it...he is extremely loyal to his employer and works insane hours (I think it's borderline abuse) He's a perfectionist in an imperfect world...

He was in his head so much that I literally had to run interference for him to snap out of it...he had a focus like I could not imagine...hours immersed in find a coding error...I marveled at that because my attention span with technology would have stopped at discovering the the evil error and then the laptop would have gone flying (figuratively)!

While we dated for 9 months, I've know him for 3 years and I feel that I don't really know him at all...it drove my curiosity crazy...the inigma of it! On another thread, I posted what food matched personality types and here is what I mentioned about ISTJs -

My experience with ISTJ's is that they are like lobsters - crusty crustaceans - an almost impenetrable shell which requires great effort to get in (and sometimes you never do) but once you are in, there is such delicate exquisite lobster meat that requires no flavouring because it's perfect just the way it is (sigh).

There you have it...I actually landed on this site because we had just called the whole thing quits and I was upset because I didn't understand our differences...we really liked each other but I think we liked the idea of each other and were just not compatible...I've learned alot about how other personality types react to things....about the differences in the I vs E energy and how our communications styles were very different too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hello Mercer -

ISTJ in a relationship (my experience) -

You've probably seen me posting about the ISTJ I dated for about 9 months...I really liked him but our differences in approaches to things made the relationship very difficult...it was like I was always second guessing everything because I filtered things through how I thought my ex would process things and inevitably I was wrong...very confusing indeed.

What I really liked about him - he was considerate, even-tempered, punctual to a fault (and I mean this - one time I was going walking over to his place and I was running about 10 min late and he called me wondering where I was...we then made a 15 min later rule)...a generally nice great guy....his large social circle didn't have a negative thing to say about him...he does alot of trithlon and swimming coaching so knows alot of people....but very few people really know him...he has a very small, insular group of close friend who I didn't get to know that well (it was like he was guarding them from me!)....he was aloof...a nut that I tried to crack but couldn't...he always wanted to be in control...he was the slowest grandpa driver I ever saw...he marvelled at my ability to ride a motorcycle but he never went anywhere near it...

We debated for hours about things...he would always challenge my opinions and my leaps of intuition about things...I don't know how I make the connections and see the big picture..I just do..and he would always want to drag those leaps of intuition through his filter of logic...it kind of annoyed me and I would get defensive because he would challenge my assumptions but never share his thoughts and opinions about things...I asked him once why we had to debate everything - not just discuss things - and he said that was how he learned things. He was extremely skeptical about everything...he had to run any idea through his risk matrix and then generally discard it...he is extremely loyal to his employer and works insane hours (I think it's borderline abuse) He's a perfectionist in an imperfect world...

He was in his head so much that I literally had to run interference for him to snap out of it...he had a focus like I could not imagine...hours immersed in find a coding error...I marveled at that because my attention span with technology would have stopped at discovering the the evil error and then the laptop would have gone flying (figuratively)!

While we dated for 9 months, I've know him for 3 years and I feel that I don't really know him at all...it drove my curiosity crazy...the inigma of it! On another thread, I posted what food matched personality types and here is what I mentioned about ISTJs -

My experience with ISTJ's is that they are like lobsters - crusty crustaceans - an almost impenetrable shell which requires great effort to get in (and sometimes you never do) but once you are in, there is such delicate exquisite lobster meat that requires no flavouring because it's perfect just the way it is (sigh).

There you have it...I actually landed on this site because we had just called the whole thing quits and I was upset because I didn't understand our differences...we really liked each other but I think we liked the idea of each other and were just not compatible...I've learned alot about how other personality types react to things....about the differences in the I vs E energy and how our communications styles were very different too.
im a grandpa driver too! though i think no one has anyhting really good to say about me. i lose facebook friends by the day so i like to think there is a person or persons spreading bad info about me. but what do i care?
 
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Mercer - maybe you need to develop more perception...ask some questions about other people...don't immediately judge things through your logic...there may be a million reasons why people are doing things or interacting in a certain way and if you don't probe and get more information, you will never know.

I think that FB has distorted the whole notion of what a friend is...no use using this as a gage for your real social interactions with people.
 
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Moby said it a little stonger than me, but...
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Mercer - maybe you need to develop more perception...ask some questions about other people...don't immediately judge things through your logic...there may be a million reasons why people are doing things or interacting in a certain way and if you don't probe and get more information, you will never know.

I think that FB has distorted the whole notion of what a friend is...no use using this as a gage for your real social interactions with people.

oh i dont make quick judgements about anybody.
 

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I married an ISTJ and to be honest it was probably the worst thing that ever happened to me... I am not saying all ISTJ's are evil but the "heck" I went through with that one makes me run as far as I can if I know ahead of time... though once a social connection has started I don't drop them for it... But a true connection is hard comming.
 

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I'm in a 10 years relationship with an ISTJ. It's incredibly frustrating at times, probably for both of us, but how would I know, she never says anything. :)

You are dependable.You guys are certainly important members of our communities, I mean someone has to take care of all the little details while we are too busy deciding what our next hobby will be (for the next two weeks, then we will look for something else :))

I don't know if I would get close to another, breaking the shell to the inner core might prove too much of a challenge and that is IF there is an inner core. I starting to doubt this, no offense.
 

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From what I have seen, ENFPs can have a fair amount of respect for the ISTJ. The appreciate the even temper, highly responsible behavior, and their hard working nature. In some cases, they think them overly stubborn and that they should loosen up and not take things so seriously all the time. I've seen these two types working well together. I've also seen it go horribly horribly wrong with both sides saying very negative things about the other and not ever forgetting past wrongs or perceptions.
 

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I do have a pretty good relationship with one ISTJ. She's equally at home entertaining a large party until the wee hours. But has no problems just sitting outside the main group looking out the window and keeping to herself.

Her dependability and lack of drama make her very approachable. And where we have the most fun is acknowledging that something is very wrong vs. "the rules." She's never afraid to put me in my place and vice-versa. She's fits the ISTJ general profile in that she has her rules, her schedule, her goals, her thoroughness and perseverance, her sense of what she should be, etc.

Generally speaking this isn't the type of person that I would think I mesh well with. Not only am I not these things, but we have different tastes, different backgrounds, and so on. There are others who I have more in common with that I can't get along with as well.

But we make it work because we trust each other that there isn't any ill-intent in our differences. Despite her self-rigor, she doesn't take herself that seriously which is also key. We have a lot of fun talking about how people interact, including ourselves (mostly the embarrassing and awkward stuff.) That mutual vulnerability puts us on common ground. But it would be easy to see how I could clash with her if the trust wasn't as strong as it is or if we were more judgmental.
 

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I married an ISTJ. She was my first love from junior high. I was attracted to her stable family environment and at 14 knew that she would be a good, "dutiful" mother to my future children. You see, someday I wanted to be a grandfather so it would be important to find a good wife to raise the kids. See, I was always thinking about the future. I was the smart, funny, outgoing, athletic, energetic, straight A student that apparently seemed like a good bet. Opposites attract is an understatement.

For the first 20 years of our marriage my wife stayed home raising the kids. Most of the time things were ok, but in the last 7 years things have changed so much. She hate's who I am (the ENTP personality traits) and I am at a loss in convincing her that although a small part of the population who I am has some legitimacy and role in this world. What really sets her off is the reviews that I have received from my ISTJ bosses that I have had. Two of which were primarily responsible for the two lay offs in my career. They always say the same thing, "creative, intelligent, out of the box thinker, but needs to stay more focused, understand the audience, communicate ideas more effectively." The last lay off had the engineering director saying we love your inventiveness, but in the current economic environment that is a "nice to have"...boom. They all try to get me to make progress on linearizing the steps of my ideas and trying to take what is a complex intuitive idea that I am sure "IS" the answer and present it as a set of simple logical steps. We ENTPs see Z and work back to A. Creating in their linear fashion is the most difficult thing. She continually mis-interprets my continual dissatisfaction with what is and the desire to improve with being unhappy. It is not unhappy, but the stimulus that drives me to the pinnacle of my potential.

As a result, my wife thinks that I am socially "out of sync" and that no one likes me. This is primarily because I have different ideas about things and try to go deeper into subjects than the average person. Their glazed over looks and my missed cues apparently are too embarrassing for her to take. She has finally had it and has developed this plan of action to do her own thing while "supporting" me iin pursuing my own independent life saying "I just want you to be happy". No she wants me to be her. Basically, the architecture of our marriage is busted, she just doesn't see it yet.

Getting the last 5% is much harder than the first 95%. Most people are satisfied with just good enough and they hate being pushed beyond their abilities. Intuition is like magic and the ISTJs hate it because to them all achievement is linear, logical and due to exhaustive hard work. Honestly, it seems to me that they live in a world of fear and have a sole goal of limiting their experience and exposure so that they can claim to have been righteous and correct in all their dealings. The ISTJs request of us is to restrain ourselves while we want them to become more unrestrained. ENTPs are probably happier with minute changes ISTJ make while they require wholesale behavioral changes which we all know aren't going to happen.

Although I love my wife, I only wish that she loved me too for who I am. I suspect that I'd be a lot more successful with someone covering my back and supporting my ideas, but the pain of not residing in the standard social hierarchy is too much for the average ISTJ.
 

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ISTJ's are great people in general. I respect and admire their steadiness, strong work ethic, and loyalty. They make you feel safe around them, like everything is going to okay :laughing:. At the end of the day, it's about understanding each other pov's and learning to accept each other despite the differences.
 

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I don't know if I would get close to another, breaking the shell to the inner core might prove too much of a challenge and that is IF there is an inner core. I starting to doubt this, no offense.
Save your time and your energy (and your emotional state).

In my experience (with the males anyway), they are happy to totally bored ... oil and water for an ENFP. You will spend 85% of your time trying to engage them or open them up to conversation/ connection, and the other 15% bored off your ass (yes, this is usually the time you start fidgeting and moving around).

They rarely smile and are difficult to amuse ... seems like even if they DO find joy in something, it really doesn't show. I like to KNOW that a person feels happy/ amused/ sad/ angry, etc. Fuck guessing all the time, and that's generally what an ISTJ will have you doing constantly. I always felt like the ISTJ I dated was pissed off or upset with me for some reason (he might have been, who knows) ... it would often end up with me getting REALLY irritated and sulking (haha, serious).

The thing that REALLY bothered me was how cold they are. I'm sure SOME aren't, but in my experience, COLD COLD COLD!!! If I would cry about something (which wasn't often, I am not a cryer by nature), he wouldn't be able to comfort or show any kind of warmth at all UNLESS he understood WHY I was upset. If he couldn't understand WHY, he'd just sit there, stone-faced and totally emotionless. It actually scared me sometimes.

Stay away from this type as an ENFP - keep your warmth and energy and don't be made to think you're crazy by an ISTJ without the ability to feel without a 10 page report on WHY they should!!
 
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