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Greetings! I am an ENFJ and i have 2 very awkward relationships with ISTJ's. there is always some kind of misunderstanding going on. One of them I love dearly because we have (chosen to) stick together through everything and our friendship has had a chance to develop through the years despite alot of hurt feelings. (forgiveness is a powerful thing)
the other I am trying to understand because i'm trying to help her husband (ENFP who is a very close friend and brother to me) get her to fall back in love with him. they have only been married a short time but he is desperate to make it work. overall she is a great girl, but my friend is very distraught over this. a side note, i'm pretty sure that even though his wife decided not to love him anymore, she is very threatened by me. could this be so? and any suggestions for this situation in regards to what she might be thinking or feeling?
 

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When you look at an ENFP and ISTJ relationship, MBTI doesn't explain much because its focus is only on the individual. You have to look at socionics which deals with the interrelations of all 16 types. Not that I'm bashing on MBTI but according to socionics, an ENFP and ISTJ is the worst possible match (in history for both types). The type of relationship they have is "conflicting", i've seen on forums where it takes a lot of work to maintain conflicting (marriages). But this "work" does not bring any fruit because all you're doing is adjusting yourself to your partners needs and not your* needs. You're being fake to yourself, conflicting relationships in short means that (One partner's needs may be satisfied but the other is lacking"). So it is naturally normal for your ISTJ friend to be turned off in disgust by her husband (this also may be the reason that her husband naturally manipulates her without knowing it because one his strong functions is the ISTJ's weak function making her vulnerable) <---(this is of course in theory but generally very applicable). She's better off with an ENFJ who is apparently her (dual) = best relationship possible.

Do not force her back with her husband for it will bring great distraught to her and possibly leave her scarred. Take my advice, walk home and tell her to leave that marriage. If you don't believe me, go find the answer in socionics or on 16types forum. MBTI isn't the only theory around to explain things, socionics explains it much more better imo.

~Acknowledged Socionics as another ENFJ.
 

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When you look at an ENFP and ISTJ relationship, MBTI doesn't explain much because its focus is only on the individual. You have to look at socionics which deals with the interrelations of all 16 types. Not that I'm bashing on MBTI but according to socionics, an ENFP and ISTJ is the worst possible match (in history for both types). The type of relationship they have is "conflicting", i've seen on forums where it takes a lot of work to maintain conflicting (marriages). But this "work" does not bring any fruit because all you're doing is adjusting yourself to your partners needs and not your* needs. You're being fake to yourself, conflicting relationships in short means that (One partner's needs may be satisfied but the other is lacking"). So it is naturally normal for your ISTJ friend to be turned off in disgust by her husband (this also may be the reason that her husband naturally manipulates her without knowing it because one his strong functions is the ISTJ's weak function making her vulnerable) <---(this is of course in theory but generally very applicable). She's better off with an ENFJ who is apparently her (dual) = best relationship possible.

Do not force her back with her husband for it will bring great distraught to her and possibly leave her scarred. Take my advice, walk home and tell her to leave that marriage. If you don't believe me, go find the answer in socionics or on 16types forum. MBTI isn't the only theory around to explain things, socionics explains it much more better imo.

~Acknowledged Socionics as another ENFJ.
No, don't tell her to leave her husband based on social theory. It's exactly what it is - theoretical! There's much more to being human than simple personality types. ENFP-ISTJ marriages have proven to able to be successful - don't base your actions on some damn (excuse my language - I just strongly disagree) theory.

This thread is 10 months old if I'm not mistaken. If you care to update or still need help, throw something back at us :proud:
 

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No, don't tell her to leave her husband based on social theory. It's exactly what it is - theoretical! There's much more to being human than simple personality types. ENFP-ISTJ marriages have proven to able to be successful - don't base your actions on some damn (excuse my language - I just strongly disagree) theory.

This thread is 10 months old if I'm not mistaken. If you care to update or still need help, throw something back at us :proud:
Oh? so this thread is still alive. Where is your proof that it has been successful? I don't mean to troll you or anything but don't give an answer without some support.

Though the least i can say is, there is a little more to human than "personalities" (they aren't simple you cluts, if it took decades to figure it out then why's it considered simple?) there is still "different interests" and experiences, and that's about it. Further complicating it is just stupid of oneself. Lol *much more* ya right everything in the world is limited to a certain extent.
 

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Sorry for double post but i generally find that ISTJ believe that it's wrong for people to be "grouped/stereotyped". I've asked my ISTJ mom and she gave me her firm stance on it, and i've also asked another ISTJ(whom i'm pursuing). So it's natural for an ISTj to disagree.

*Note* if you don't believe in the theory, go check out the other* forums online and you'll see what pops up. 16types? ring a bell?*

[Edit], i was in a rush when i typed this up, but to clarify. Normally ISTJ's would mostly disagree with the theory (since it's just theory). ISTJ's don't think it's practical, so what i'm saying is, go on 16types forum where they are actually competent in intertype relationships and they have the EXPERIENCE that you guys value so much. Disregard what i said with "if you don't believe in the theory" becuz this is actually what i'm trying to refer to.

And by "you" i would mean everyone cuz i didn't quote you or anything.
 

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Oh? so this thread is still alive. Where is your proof that it has been successful? I don't mean to troll you or anything but don't give an answer without some support.

Though the least i can say is, there is a little more to human than "personalities" (they aren't simple you cluts, if it took decades to figure it out then why's it considered simple?) there is still "different interests" and experiences, and that's about it. Further complicating it is just stupid of oneself. Lol *much more* ya right everything in the world is limited to a certain extent.
Yeah, it's alive because you posted in it :happy:

Proof? If you'd been following this forum section for the last year or so, you'd have seen a wise guy named 'niss' who's in a relationship with an ENFP. What doesn't work *in theory* doesn't equal what works *in reality*. Since your generalization was so extreme, I think this "proof" will suffice.

If only humans were that simple. You can't fit everyone into a lil' box, although that clearly sounds like your intention.

Sorry for double post but i generally find that ISTJ believe that it's wrong for people to be "grouped/stereotyped". I've asked my ISTJ mom and she gave me her firm stance on it, and i've also asked another ISTJ(whom i'm pursuing). So it's natural for an ISTj to disagree.

*Note* if you don't believe in the theory, go check out the other* forums online and you'll see what pops up. 16types? ring a bell?*
So since you see I'm an ISTJ, you believe you know my stance already and that I can't possibly think anything unexpected - you're putting me into a box.

Perhaps it's natural for an ISTJ to disagree, but then again - you have to have a blind belief in these theories to agree with "An ISTJ-ENFP relationship doesn't bring ANY good, it's all trouble and there can't possibly be any happy couples out there".

Where in my reply did I state that I do not believe in personality theory? I merely stated that you can't base your decision on a theory according to an imperfect system. If I thought it was all rubbish, I probably wouldn't be posting in this forum, but it's definitely not perfect and decisions shouldn't be made based on it - it should be a tool for understanding.
 

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it's not really putting people into a box. he's not saying that. psychological types do play a huge role in relationships. istj-enfp relationships, while good at first, are extremely hard to maintain- speaking from 3 years of blood, swear, and tears with an enfp.

the way istj and enfps process information is completely different and it can be extremely difficult for them to work together even though they have the same ideologies. though it can work out, its simply not optimal. if you read niss' post about this carefully, you can infer this as well.

trust me, i've been closely observing this shit for years...enfp and istj are attracted to each other like a moth and the flame. but once the "honeymoon period" wears off, its a whole new ball game. experience it for yourself and you'll see.
 

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Yeah, it's alive because you posted in it :happy:

Proof? If you'd been following this forum section for the last year or so, you'd have seen a wise guy named 'niss' who's in a relationship with an ENFP. What doesn't work *in theory* doesn't equal what works *in reality*. Since your generalization was so extreme, I think this "proof" will suffice.

If only humans were that simple. You can't fit everyone into a lil' box, although that clearly sounds like your intention.


So since you see I'm an ISTJ, you believe you know my stance already and that I can't possibly think anything unexpected - you're putting me into a box.

Perhaps it's natural for an ISTJ to disagree, but then again - you have to have a blind belief in these theories to agree with "An ISTJ-ENFP relationship doesn't bring ANY good, it's all trouble and there can't possibly be any happy couples out there".

Where in my reply did I state that I do not believe in personality theory? I merely stated that you can't base your decision on a theory according to an imperfect system. If I thought it was all rubbish, I probably wouldn't be posting in this forum, but it's definitely not perfect and decisions shouldn't be made based on it - it should be a tool for understanding.
LOL, what you're saying is a little funny because clearly niss says that "I believe an ENFJ is one of the best fits for an ISTJ" from direct quote on "How do you guys view ENFJ's" Hey comeon get your facts straight. It's NOT ENFP and ISTJ are good match. Other way around la.

And btw humans are very complicated* like i said earlier, i hope you didn't pick it up wrong. With extensive research and many years. They have finally been able to see a common ground between every human. Look here boi/girl, you expect me to think that there's 10 million different types of people out here? There is a lot of truth in this world, and 10 million different types of people is a stretch from the truth. And ya this is a little extreme but i wouldn't wanna be putting people in boxes. It's more of saying that they generally share common ways of doing things. For eg. an ISTj, they would pretty much be very alike but the norms, culture and experience is all different.

Don't get me wrong but ISTJ's tend to believe in experience rather than theory so i think it justifies me saying that you disagree with the theory. (ISTJ facts/experience rather than theory, Duhhh..). But now theory is coming alive* and there is a TRUTH
Sorry if it's just a stereotype but looks here that FROM experience (ENFP and ISTJ) are a rather complicated relationship. I wouldn't be saying this if i didn't care about it, i don't want an ISTJ to blindly be commited to a partner just fort he sake of commiting

Please don't think i'm just trolling you but from experience and from other people's experience. A relationship of conflict*.

1. You are not yourself when with the partner
2. Your need are not being met, and it has become a one sided relationship, a lot of work to keep going
3. The work* is not meaningful because you don't get to be you/you don't get to develop yourself
4. Hey look someone actually has some EXPERIENCe with ENFP

I hope this convinces you that ENFP is not a healthy match to an ISTJ. Lol i laugh when you say it's just a tool for understanding. Ya understanding that there are conflicting relationships and it's just a waste of your time. Thankyou ladies and gentlemen :)
 

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Sigh and again for double posting.

This is what i do, get the theory --> use it to verify the experience
This is what other people do (get the experience) then have the experience verify the theory.

If this ain't happening then, man that was a waste of my time.:frustrating:
 

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psychological types do play a huge role in relationships. istj-enfp relationships, while good at first, are extremely hard to maintain- speaking from 3 years of blood, swear, and tears with an enfp.
Whoa....:shocked:

the way istj and enfps process information is completely different and it can be extremely difficult for them to work together even though they have the same ideologies. though it can work out, its simply not optimal.
True.

trust me, i've been closely observing this shit for years...enfp and istj are attracted to each other like a moth and the flame. but once the "honeymoon period" wears off, its a whole new ball game. experience it for yourself and you'll see.
True.
 

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LOL, i gotta love dem ISTJ's. You seem like a Ti subtype according to socionics. (Calm and not conflict seeking) Ah you ISTJ's amaze me :crazy:
 

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Y"know sometimes i argue with my ISTJ mom too, and it goes along the lines of whatever we were just debating about. And then she gets realllllly annoyed and starts laughing (You're killing me son! :confused:) :proud:. It's funny she stands her ground a lot and i never back off. I got into some arguements with another ISTJ girl i'm pursuing and when she doesn't agree. She STRONG DISAGREE's and then gives a short simple answer, although of course she is a little more flexible into what i'm saying now since the theory has a direct connection to her life. So now she can't say there's no truth to the theory. Wakakaka
 

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LOL, i gotta love dem ISTJ's. You seem like a Ti subtype according to socionics. (Calm and not conflict seeking) Ah you ISTJ's amaze me :crazy:
What's a Ti subtype?

You know sometimes i argue with my ISTJ mom too...........and then she gets realllllly annoyed and starts laughing
From getting annoyed to LAUGHING? This is strange.
 

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LOL, i gotta love dem ISTJ's. You seem like a Ti subtype according to socionics. (Calm and not conflict seeking) Ah you ISTJ's amaze me :crazy:
Usually am. Certain things (like telling someone to do something because a theory tells you to) just set me off.

I read your last posts, but I'm not going to reply to them since our opinions are a hundred percent opposite.
 

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When you look at an ENFP and ISTJ relationship, MBTI doesn't explain much because its focus is only on the individual. You have to look at socionics which deals with the interrelations of all 16 types. Not that I'm bashing on MBTI but according to socionics, an ENFP and ISTJ is the worst possible match (in history for both types).
~Acknowledged Socionics as another ENFJ.
Yeah, but you do know that MBTI type doesn't always translate into the same Socionics type, right? Especially for introverts: How to convert MBTI type to Socionics type from Socionics.com.
 

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Yes, why i argue is because i just want the well-being for all ISTJ's. I don't want them to be wrecked by another person, it ain't their fault and i hope they know that. I don't tell someone to do something just because the theory says so, but if the (experience and theory) both agree with each other. What more is there to say, just don't do it.

Sure our opinions are 100% opposite but that's what's fun about it. I sure hate to marry another ENFJ because we can't help each, we got the same opinions and problems. Just doesn't allow for much growth y'know? I love how ISTJ's give a different take to a problem because that's basically the other half that i'm missing (only if i'm missing it though).
 

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Although i'd rather not focus too much on socionics J/P switching MBTI. But in some cases, like the ISTJ i know, her type is the same whether socionics or mbti, i can be fairly certain about this because the ISTP description ain't her nor anything else. Funny cause the ISTj i know procrastinates a too (like 2 hours >>), so ISTx is generally correct.
Yo turtle, you don't have to think that i'm not aware of this (socionics vs mbti) translation of types and all that cognitive functions (just confusing). So i'd rather treat it separately for now until i can find a common ground between mbti and socionics with my own understanding.

Ti subtype, is 1 of 2 different ISTJ's..I've met mostly Ti subtypes but i can be mistakened..Maybe there are more different ISTJ's but generally they follow these 2. O btw, socionics switched the cognitive functions order, so the Ti subtype should belong to the ISTP. Weird that they switched it around, maybe they meant Ti as Si?. Who knows just confusing
Link here:
ISTJ Subtypes - the16types.info Socionics Forums
 
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