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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello everyone,

I have taken the test and found out that I am an ISTJ. I am a textbook case of an ISTJ (does not like change, loyal, law abiding, traditional, vast store of facts, always thinking that i'm right, etc.). I am a 22 year old college senior majoring in Human Development.

I am about to graduate soon, and I am interested in going to graduate school to pursue a Master's Degree in Counseling or Education in order to become a college counselor. I have a library of knowledge inside of my head about universities, majors, degrees, geography of the US, school policies, etc. In my free time, I like to look up random programs and where they are offered, what type of classes they require, and what profession they will lead to, etc. I have actually gone to my academic counselors and showed them that they gave me incorrect advice about something after doing the research myself. I have helped my girlfriend navigate through a few community colleges so well she doesn't even like seeing her own counselor anymore. Most of the time, they give her faulty advice, which to that I say "they are wrong and I am right!" and give her the correct advice-what prereq to take or what college to look to for her future interests. I have suffered from some setbacks in my life (addiction problems), but I found college and fell in love with learning. It truly saved me from a very negative lifestyle. I truly have a passion for education and I would love to help others plan to reach their goals like I was able to reach mine.

As I look through the ISTJ websites, I find that counselors are usually not on the list of favored professions. However, the type of counseling I am interested in involves career and academic advising and planning, not the traditional forms of counseling which involve empathetic therapy. I feel like I can use my knowledge and passion of schools, majors, programs, prerequisites, job opportunities, and geography to help tailor and guide students through their academic careers. The job involves working alone without supervising, it involves concrete facts, and I am able to use my orginizational skills and my inner knowledge to help students pick classes, graduate programs, or seek job opportunities. So, what do you guys think? Does this sound like a good pick for an ISTJ?
 

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I think it sounds right up your alley. I also think that you're trying to convince yourself about something that you've already decided on. :crazy: :laughing:
 

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Yes it does. Coaching or advising comes very natural to the ISTJ. Also, they are often found in the administration department of schools. The major shortcomings that they must work to overcome in these situations are:

1) Allow people to reject their advice without feeling rejected themselves

ISTJs can become heavily invested in the solving of a difficult situation. When our advice is rejected in these situations, we sometimes can feel the urge to walk away, dusting our hands of the situation and the people involved. As a counselor, you can't really give in to that tendency. You advise and they make a decision after hearing your advice. They may not always choose what you thought was best. You will have to allow them that freedom without feeling rejected.

2) Giving adequate praise to their peers and staff

ISTJs seldom give adequate praise for normal everyday activities that are what we consider to be "part of the job." We expect people to do what they are supposed to do, and only tend to give praise when you go above and beyond the call of duty. School administrators must overcome this tendency or they will be resented by their peers and their staff. Everyone likes to feel appreciated, even if what they are doing is really part of their job description and responsibility. This is especially true if you find yourself in elementary age education. At this level of the education system, you will find yourself surrounded by a lot of XNFXs and XSFXs, which are people that need to hear that positive feed back on a regular basis.

I think you have found an excellent career. Pursue it with all of your heart.

Good Luck:happy:
 

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I don't think it's the right job for an ISTJ.

I think certain jobs are perfect for certain types and this job is really for the INFJ
 

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The great thing about being ISTJ is that ISTJs can do literally any job ever well. Go for it.
 

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I don't think it's the right job for an ISTJ.

I think certain jobs are perfect for certain types and this job is really for the INFJ
I disagree. I don't think anyone can say in their right mind that a person's passion for a career is negated simply because it doesn't follow clearly from their psychological type. I think if you're honest with yourself that it's something you could see yourself doing, have evaluated and weighed up your strengths and weaknesses to see yourself performing well in this field, then I say don't let the hay-sayers say otherwise. I'm intrigued to have found this thread. Last night I spent all night looking up careers I thought I would enjoy. Looked up psychologist, psychiatrist, guidance counselor, school psychologist, psychiatric technician, then university career counselor (in that order). Now I see myself, too, wanting to work as a university career counselor -- for some of the reasons you've already mentioned. I've often found myself looking over college course catalogs, even while already enrolled, just looking for classes which may be fun to take. I like reading about all of them, even ones outside of my major, and wonder what they're like. A lightbulb sort of went off in my head after hearing about a university career counselor. I think this is something I'd like to try.

Question for OP. I plan on graduating with a B.A. in Psychology, but in order to become a university career counselor would I need a Masters or do you know if some schools hire B.A.s right out of college? Do you know how much on-the-job training there is? Thanks for this thread.
 

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You can be as passionate as you like about anything it doesn't mean you are cut out for it.
Moreover in a position such as this you will affect others. positively or potentially negatively.

That's not to say this person does not care or their heart is not in the right place it's just that istj's on a whole are not cut out for this sort of thing.

Sorry.
 

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Bullshit, I've seen ISTJs doing every single damn job in existence. Including, yes, college counseling, and teaching. One of my favorite professors is ISTJ.
 

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Bullshit, I've seen ISTJs doing every single damn job in existence. Including, yes, college counseling, and teaching. One of my favorite professors is ISTJ.
People can do whatever job they want.
It does not mean they are cut out for it.

I find it hard to imagine that anyone can disagree with this simple premise.

But what do I know.
 

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Passion and desire deserve more credit than you are giving them. The INFJ that isn't passionate about fulfilling the position of college counselor would be a much worse fit than the ISTJ that is passionate about being a college counselor.

I would suggest that you stop and look at the personality types you find filling those positions of administration and counseling at the college level. People tend to do what they find easiest. You will find many ISTJs in these positions.

Finally, whether ISTJs are cut out for a position or not, is of lesser importance. As another poster pointed out, we have this internal mechanism that causes us to rise to the occasion. We can often be mistaken for another type because we will put our feelings aside and do what is right and necessary to get the job done. I can personally attest to this--many people IRL are amazed to find out that I'm an introvert and strongly prefer my alone time, because they see me in so many social circles dealing with people in an extroverted manner. Shaking hands, greeting people, kissing babies, and public speaking are none of my favorite things, but I do these things on a regular basis.
 

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People can do whatever job they want.
It does not mean they are cut out for it.
I know that. I also know that outside of exceedingly abstract fields, ISTJs are, indeed, well-equipped to perform any task they want to do, if they're properly shown how to do it. That's the beauty of Si.
 
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I think this is an excellent job for an ISTJ! I didn't realize you needed a masters degree to be this sort of counselor... nonetheless, you just gave me an idea :laughing:
 

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You can be as passionate as you like about anything it doesn't mean you are cut out for it.
Moreover in a position such as this you will affect others. positively or potentially negatively.

That's not to say this person does not care or their heart is not in the right place it's just that istj's on a whole are not cut out for this sort of thing.

Sorry.
Generalities are bad. Every single person who tests as an istj is not a robot projectile inherently the same in every way, same goes for people who test as infj. I'd rather hire someone for the job who full well believed they could do it, passionate and felt it's their life mission rather than random person who has no interest in the field whatsoever but is an infj. I know people who have infj preferences but end up in fields not specified under infj careers yet full well love what they do. A person's drive to succeed, and not letting anything hold them back - not even what some psychological test tells them what they aren't good at - is the kind of person I'd want my academic advisor to be. No one can tell you "no, you're not good at it" unless you're weak and allow others to run your life. I say, live life the way you want.
 

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I know that. I also know that outside of exceedingly abstract fields, ISTJs are, indeed, well-equipped to perform any task they want to do, if they're properly shown how to do it. That's the beauty of Si.
You can't show people how to adapt to the needs and emotions of others.

I think INFJ's can point people to whatever job they are "meant" to do as opposed to what might be "best".

There's a subtle difference between helping people find the job most suited to them and helping people find a job they are most suited to.

Read it twice if that didn't make sense to you.
 

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You can't show people how to adapt to the needs and emotions of others.

I think INFJ's can point people to whatever job they are "meant" to do as opposed to what might be "best".

There's a subtle difference between helping people find the job most suited to them and helping people find a job they are most suited to.

Read it twice if that didn't make sense to you.
1st comment is wrong. You absolutely can show people how to adapt to the needs and emotions of others.

2nd comment is true. But not only INFJs--other types can also do this.

3rd comment is true. The difference is very subtle. To the point of delving into semantics.

4th comment is unnecessary. Sounds like it is intended to cast doubt on the ability of the reader to come up to your level of thinking.
 

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1st comment is wrong. You absolutely can show people how to adapt to the needs and emotions of others.

2nd comment is true. But not only INFJs--other types can also do this.

3rd comment is true. The difference is very subtle. To the point of delving into semantics.

4th comment is unnecessary. Sounds like it is intended to cast doubt on the ability of the reader to come up to your level of thinking.
1. We can go ahead and just agree to disagree.
2. They're best at it. Other types can try but will fall short.
3. But it's an important difference.
4. No it's an acknowledgement of the fact that we communicate differently and pointing it out makes it obvious as opposed to pretending the difference doesn't exist and tiptoeing around it. No offense meant.
 

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1. We can go ahead and just agree to disagree.
2. They're best at it. Other types can try but will fall short.
3. But it's an important difference.
4. No it's an acknowledgement of the fact that we communicate differently and pointing it out makes it obvious as opposed to pretending the difference doesn't exist and tiptoeing around it. No offense meant.
1. Disagree or not, I've lived long enough to personally show and see people adapt to the needs and emotions of others.

2. I've seen all types excel where they were supposed to fall short and all types fall short where they were supposed to excel. MBTI is not an end-all.

3. Meh. Not nearly so much as is the passion and desire of the person performing the job.

4. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Question for OP. I plan on graduating with a B.A. in Psychology, but in order to become a university career counselor would I need a Masters or do you know if some schools hire B.A.s right out of college? Do you know how much on-the-job training there is? Thanks for this thread.
That depends on which state you live in, because each state requires different requirements to become a counselor. In California, where I live, there was a senate bill a while ago that made it a requirement that all community colleges and public universities hire teachers/counselors with at least a master's degree. Technically, in some fields of study at the college level, I believe you can have a bachelor's degree with four years experience and teach, but that does not apply to counseling. So, you need a Master's Degree in either Counseling, Counseling Psychology, Educational Counseling, or a related field. I assume that reputable 4 year private colleges would follow a similar standard.

The only colleges that I know that would hire a career/college counselor right out of college with a BA would be a professional/technical third rate college such as Heald or Western Career College. In fact, you could be a college counselor at vocational/career school with just an AA degree. However, in this job market and in the profession of counseling, it is imperative that one gets a master's degree to be competitive and meet general requirements if you want to counsel at a community college or a 4 year university.

As for on the job training, there should be required internships at accredited colleges for counseling. They will place you in a supervised counseling setting. Be careful about the type of degree you get, though. Look very closely at what specialization it focuses on. If you are sure that you want to do college counseling only, you should just get a generic Counseling or Eduction type of degree. This will save you time and classes that are not applicable. A lot of counseling programs in California focus on producing MFT's (Marriage and Family therapists-kind of like an LPC in other states). This route will take significantly longer and its focus will be more on traditional therapeutic settings, in addition to requiring 1000 to 2000 hours of internship to get a MFT license. However, if you want to be able to have options when you graduate, getting a Counseling Master's specializing in an MFT would allow you to be a college counselor, career counselor, or regular therapist. Programs focusing only on college counseling will not allow you to pursue private therapy (although you could do coaching).

Remember though, getting a Master's in Counseling with a specialization in college counseling leaves the door open for you if you would like to pursue a PhD in psychology one day. An MFT is a terminal degree, meaning that there is really no point in becoming a psychologist since you can already can legally practice therapy. I myself love Psychology (particularly Developmental considering my background in Human Development). The reason I am only thinking of getting a regular MA in counseling and not the MFT track is because I want to leave the door open to getting a PhD in Psychology or Educational Counseling one day. Of course, I would use these degrees to open doors for private college/career counseling, teaching, research, and administration. If you are a college counselor for a decade or so, and then get a PhD in Education or Counseling, you have a good shot at landing an administrative position in the counseling department or a high ranking teaching job. I know that here in California, if you become a college counselor, many community colleges and four years ask you to teach a class in counseling, especially if you are a higher ranking counselor like an associate. Also, as a college counselor, you can administer the MBTI and other types of personality/career tests.
 

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I think this is a great job for you. So, go for it!:happy:

At ENTrePenuer: Perhaps we are not "made" for the job but I don't see why that should be a problem. Anyone has the potential to do anything. But only and only if you are interested in it and are wlling to put in the effort. Its really not that different to saying the rationals/ Intellects are naturally more likely to be gifted in intellect and so they should be the only academics around or the only ones cut out for education.

Of course as statistics have proven, INTP's have the highest probablility of being intellectually gifted and are more cut out for any academic field. And yet, I have seen many many INTP's not do well in schools and other acadmeic field simply because they were not interested in it and weren't happy to put in the effort. And yet, many SF's have exceeded in the same academic field not because they were cut out for it MBTI-wise but because they were hardworking and willing to put in effort in the task.

We can learn how to deal with any task as we go along with time. Sometimes sooner and sometimes later. If you are in the job on a regular basis then you would learn sooner. Its possible to remain an ISTJ and yet have many traits required to be a career counselor for you would eventually learn with the job.

FWIW, it doesn't come down to what we are cut out for but rather how much effort we are willing to put in. So, we might not be perfect for a certain job but that doesn't mean we can't do it successfully.
 
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