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These two seem to be quite...notorious in the Youtube/vegan community. Has anyone tried the lifestyle they keep mentioning, RawTil4? I'm interested to see if it's really as successful as they claim. And, as the title states, what are your opinions? Anyone's welcome to comment, vegan or non-vegan.
 

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Like a lot of the raw vegan's, just sit back and have another look in about a decade. Anyone can lose weight and claim amazing health by cutting out several food groups. But I've been following raw veganism and it's variants for quite some time (out of interest sake) and the number of long termers who end up in health crisis is a big sign that it's not sustainable for life. Better to create a basic healthy lifestyle that does not include radicalism to ensure health over the long term.

Durianrider looks emaciated to me.

I've been following paleo too and the number of long termers there don't seem to end up with real issues. Mostly they just cut out processed junk which seems to have no detrimental affect. A few of them get radical and well, that's not sustainable either. But the basic premise of structuring meals around vegetables and some protein isn't a bad one.
 

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I followed Freelee for a while, mostly out of curiosity to see her lifestyle, since it was something completely new to me at the time. But, unfortunately most of her nutrition claims are so wrong and biased, especially the part about calories not mattering as long as you eat fruit and other carbs, that I couldn't just take any more of that, especially since I'm a scientist in that field, it was frustrating.
And she has also transitioned from talking about her diet to judging everyone else, she even made a video about how meat-eaters deserve to die and that everyone should be forced to go vegan. I think that's when I unsubscribed.

Durianrider is completely un-watchable for me, he is just terrible. And I find ridiculous how he tries to show his biceps when they are just tiny and only show because of his low bf%.

I think the simple reason their diet works for them is because they are cycling athletes. Other vegans have also agreed with that. High carb diets are not good for people who don't exercise as much.


Now I follow Unnatural Vegan, she is very rational, knowledgeable and humble (must be xNTP) and critiques other vegans like Freelee for their approach and nutrition claims. She is vegan purely for ethical reasons and doesn't agree that animal eating is not natural for us (at least up to a point), hence the unnatural in her name.
 

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These two seem to be quite...notorious in the Youtube/vegan community. Has anyone tried the lifestyle they keep mentioning, RawTil4? I'm interested to see if it's really as successful as they claim. And, as the title states, what are your opinions? Anyone's welcome to comment, vegan or non-vegan.
I understand where FreeLee comes from when she mentions eating mono meals to absorb the best benefits of the fruits she eats raw, but lets not forget, she works out 24/7.

I mean, who lives a crazy lifestyle like that without getting paid or at least being a trust fund baby of some sort.

If I could hook up a hammock, relax and chill all day, eat raw, work out on the beach and sleep whenever I can, then yeah, that lifestyle would work for me.

People get fat on fruitopian diets if they do not work out on a daily basis. Overall, I really like FreeLee, not Durian he is kinda annoying and douchey, and FreeLee is a little kickass. I like her personality and the fact she is so passionate. And, I do enjoy learning about her perspective of eating raw from morning til 4 p.m. and having cooked meals in the evening. I like her. What she preaches seems to make sense. But, her diet plan is not the only plan and mostly caters to individualistic lifestyles, whereas in collectivistic cultures where people value group harmony, who is to say that having a diet of both cooked and raw enjoyed with friends and family does not help to balance humans out on a biopsychosocial level?
 

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A lot of it makes sense to me. I have known about them for 5 years now. At that time, after speaking with my father, reading a lot of books, and expanding my horizons, I convinced myself that it was the thing that made the most sense to me.

Personally I just don't like all the "nazi"-attitudes in the 811/rawtil4/HCLF community. Banning people left, and right, being paranoid, double standard and what not.
 

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Protein deficiency, Vitamin B-12 deficiency, taurine deficiency and a shit load of others if you follow this diet. They may have a lot of energy and be thin, but what you see on the outside doesn't reflect what might be happening on the inside. What they may not realize is that these problems won't surface and show their threatening side effects for many years-- B12 can store in the body for many years, but once it's depleted, then you're in major trouble.

I agree with @Red Panda's views on this. And thanks for the link. :kitteh:
 

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Like a lot of the raw vegan's, just sit back and have another look in about a decade. Anyone can lose weight and claim amazing health by cutting out several food groups. But I've been following raw veganism and it's variants for quite some time (out of interest sake) and the number of long termers who end up in health crisis is a big sign that it's not sustainable for life. Better to create a basic healthy lifestyle that does not include radicalism to ensure health over the long term.
What type of health crisis and after how long? Just curious, I always assumed that would be the eventual result but never saw any videos or posts indicating that.

As for original question, raw veganism is a cult basically, like any of these extreme diets. Freelee is insane but I dislike that FullyRawKristina more...fakest person ever, claiming her eyes turned blue from raw veganism and all this crap.
 

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If you google raw vegan health problems you'll find a lot of genuine blogs by people who in less than a decade had serious health issues resulting from amino acid deficiencies, pre-diabetic conditions and chronic fatigue syndrome. Hair loss, fatigue, dental problems and complications from hyperglycaemia are all pretty common.

The whole premise is faulty. There is no primate in the world that lives exclusively on cultivated fruit as a natural diet. Table fruit has been bred to be high in fructose so it is edible. This is the diet of absolutely nothing. Wild primates eat wild fruits which are generally unpalatable to humans because they are incredibly fibrous and tart. Not sweet and delicious like farmed fruit. Fruit won't hurt you in moderation but 30 bananas a day certainly won't be good for you.

The other thing is their correlations aren't causations. I had a very similar body transformation in my late 20's. I went from being chronically overweight, fat and pudgy looking to suddenly svelte in 3 months and I've never put that weight back on. I lost 2 dress sizes, my skin got amazing, I had ab definition and looked every bit as slender in a bikini as these girls.

I wasn't eating raw, in fact I was eating exclusively cooked food, I didn't touch a salad or fruit in all that time. I had that transformation because I stopped eating processed food. I was living on steamed vegetables and eggs with the odd bit of meat. I wasn't even exercising either beyond going for a 2hr walk a day. I didn't do that as a fad, I just naturally transitioned to that kind of diet because it's what I like to eat. Cutting out the junk (aka, everything you buy in a plastic packet) is what does it. But unfortunately these people think it's because they don't cook their food or eat massive amounts of fruit. It's really not. They could all go back to eating cooked food tomorrow and maintain their present look, they just don't realise it.

Anyone who lives on a diet of unprocessed food will not have weight issues. I'm 43, I've maintained my perfect weight for 13yrs effortlessly. My body is toned, perfectly formed and I don't have cellulite. The only exercise I do is daily yoga. I just don't eat processed food except very occassionally.
 

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Raw veganism is medically called one of the worst diets, and it unfortunately draws unfair judgment on a more balanced vegan diet. That's in the West.

In Eastern medicine, eating all cold or raw foods can cause a physical imbalance, most notably digestive problems. You're supposed to balance hot and cold for example.


I think it's good to incorporate a lot of raw food into the diet, have fresh fruit, salads, nuts, seeds, sprouts, etc. Sure even have cold pressed juices. But it can easily tear up your digestive system, you may find it more difficult to absorb enough nutrients, and feel unsatisfied if this is all you eat for a significant period of time.

It's actually a fact that while over-cooking of foods can leech out certain nutrients, there are other foods that have more nutritional accessibility when cooked. We also developed cooking as a means of killing bacteria.

I have eaten at a raw food restaurant before, and it was really good but very expensive because it was gourmet concoctions.

Raw for breakfast and dinner sounds like it could be plausible, especially in warmer seasons or warm/temperate climates. I am guessing you'd see more raw foodists in southern California or Florida, or desert communities.

I'll have to look these individuals up. I have never considered a completely raw food diet as sane, though apparently it does work for certain individuals.
 

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Like a lot of the raw vegan's, just sit back and have another look in about a decade. Anyone can lose weight and claim amazing health by cutting out several food groups. But I've been following raw veganism and it's variants for quite some time (out of interest sake) and the number of long termers who end up in health crisis is a big sign that it's not sustainable for life. Better to create a basic healthy lifestyle that does not include radicalism to ensure health over the long term.

Durianrider looks emaciated to me.

I've been following paleo too and the number of long termers there don't seem to end up with real issues. Mostly they just cut out processed junk which seems to have no detrimental affect. A few of them get radical and well, that's not sustainable either. But the basic premise of structuring meals around vegetables and some protein isn't a bad one.
Paleo is also considered to be a terrible diet. But there's nothing wrong with eating more whole, natural foods and pushing people to eat grass fed or wild caught if they're going to eat meat...it's just that apparently a lot of people use it as an excuse to eat a pile of bacon, not entirely unlike Atkins. Any diet that tells people they can't eat beans or legumes is completely retarded.
 

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Paleo is also considered to be a terrible diet. But there's nothing wrong with eating more whole, natural foods and pushing people to eat grass fed or wild caught if they're going to eat meat...it's just that apparently a lot of people use it as an excuse to eat a pile of bacon, not entirely unlike Atkins. Any diet that tells people they can't eat beans or legumes is completely retarded.
Agreed. The only thing anyone really needs to do is stop living out of a 2min packet mix of non-food. I eat the full range of food, grains included. I just don't eat breakfast cereals, I prefer vegetables and eggs for breakfast. I rarely eat bread mostly because it bloats and constipates me, even full grain does that. But I love it, so I do indulge myself every couple of weeks with a nice crusty roll and fillings. When I'm having grain I prefer rice but it doesn't make the basis of most of my meals.

I eat more vegetables than anything else, although I love my brie, yoghurt, homemade pickles, the occassional bowl of rice, the odd bread roll. In short, I enjoy food and I enjoy life. I just don't eat non-food, which is most things is colourful plastic packets at the supermarket.
 

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Ok I just looked them up. ..I actually had heard of 30 bananas a day and thought it was one of those cleanses or mono fasts, like a way to jump start a more balanced plant based diet, or a way to squeeze into a bathing suit or wedding dress in a couple of weeks. I had no idea these people were suggesting this as A LIFESTYLE...it's really a perversion of more dietetically sane plant based diet. Ugh whatever.
 

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I came across them from another raw YT channel and subscribed over a year ago to both of them. I think DR is quite genuine and can be quite funny; Freelee and Durianrider in my opinion are great people. It's not fair to say that they are doing it because of fame/money etc-like any other youtuber they make videos and are putting knowledge from their own experience out to the public. They're different to most other vegan reps because they keep it real, which I think is great. However at times, Freelee's vlogs are a bit repetitive and one thing I don't agree with is 'no need to calorie restrict'.
Overall, I think a lot of people coming from eating disorders, body image issues will find Freelee/Harley to be a great source of information and will find their realness enlightening/inspiring about a lot of stuff that society does that is wrong but left unquestioned. People are saying to see them after x amount of years, but they don't realise that Harley's been vegan for 12+ years, and Freelee around 8(?). Plus, they're not the first to be following that lifestyle, apart from the whole 'unlimited calories' which is just to stop people fearing calories and worry that comes with calorie restriction. Books they recommend: The China Study, The Starch Solution, Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease. I think it's important to keep in mind that even her subscribers follow the lifestyle according to what feels right to them because Harley and Freelee are doing what works for them best and may not necessarily for someone else.
 

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Ok I just looked them up. ..I actually had heard of 30 bananas a day and thought it was one of those cleanses or mono fasts, like a way to jump start a more balanced plant based diet, or a way to squeeze into a bathing suit or wedding dress in a couple of weeks. I had no idea these people were suggesting this as A LIFESTYLE...it's really a perversion of more dietetically sane plant based diet. Ugh whatever.
What gets me is wtf can afford to eat 30 bananas a day? They're really expensive here and you only get 4 to a kilo. So I want to know who's burying themselves in debt to be able to scoff $35 worth of bananas every single day. Fuck thats close to my weekly rent.
 

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They don't eat 30 bananas a day, that's just something she did for a video or two (she ate 51 bananas for one day).
They also don't eat fully raw anymore, they've changed it to "Raw till 4(pm)".
 
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Paleo is also considered to be a terrible diet. But there's nothing wrong with eating more whole, natural foods and pushing people to eat grass fed or wild caught if they're going to eat meat...it's just that apparently a lot of people use it as an excuse to eat a pile of bacon, not entirely unlike Atkins. Any diet that tells people they can't eat beans or legumes is completely retarded.
Paleo is considered not tested enough, not terrible.
 
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